[Closed] New build, first ride, help me understand the handling please

Why so short a stem?

You'll have to start moving your weight back more. Ride the back wheel around corners with your arms a bit straighter. If you crouch over the fork coming up to the apex, the rear will extend and...

Also if the rear rebound is too fast compared to the front compression it'll tend to do that a little bit more anyway.

looks very tall & short - not familiar with the bike though, so can't really comment on yer setup

(is a short stem though)

Or it could be the stick dangling out the cranks.. maybe it's tripping you up? 😀

looks horrible to ride

The stem is very short, yes, it was bought to fit a budget, tbh it is the first thing that I was thinking of changing but don't know how long to go, is there a rule of thumb for calculating stem length?

Just a thought on technique rather than set-up - did you by any chance stand up on the pedals while braking just before the corner? This would cause the back end to come up and put your weight further forward causing the forks to compress and tuck under. Try and get the bike balanced with the heavy braking done before the corner as you now have two ends that move!

As has already been pointed out, the short stem and inline post give you a quite a short or even cramped riding position which will exagerate the feeling of sitting on top of the bike.

ralph, care to give me some pointers, I'm no MTB expert so I don't know much about judging how it rides, why do you think it looks horrible to ride?

I hate it when the front wheel tucks under; it's one of those things that just shouldn't happen.

I had this problem a little while back which was the result of using a fork that was too short for the bike (I was experimenting, tryin to save weight).

The tuck happens when you have too much weight on over the front for the steering angle which then causes the front wheel to flip out. Think of a shopping trolley wheel and the way it always wants to flip back when you push it forward and that's basically the same effect.

Now your problem is that the fork looks like it's more than long enough for that bike. And you're saying that the fork is where it should be in the travel?

I'm not sure about what you mean, but it could easily be that the fork's spring rate is too soft, and/or, there is not enough low speed compression damping to prop it up when you weight the front wheel in turns.

That would then cause the fork to dive and effectively steepen the headangle, which would then make the steering angle less stable.

I'm not sure I would follow the advive about not weighting the front wheel in turns though because that's precisely what you wouldn't want to do; after all, your front wheel is the one doing the steering so you sort of need it to grip.

If you can't weight it properly without it tucking under so easily, then more than likely it's the issue of spring rate/low speed compression causing the front end to dive.

Also do you ride with your seat up all the time or drop it for descents? That would also allow you to lower your COG, which would allow you to weight the front properly, rather than being 'nose over the front wheel', which is definitely not where you want to be.

Looking at that set-up again it reminds me very much of my old Compo. That took quite a bit of getting used to as you felt very high up, almost on top of the bike. Fine after a while when you realised you had to get your @rse right back over the saddle when it got steep. Even more important on yours with the rear end moving.

Pic from BM
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geetee1972, cheers for taking to time to explain it, I can have a go at changing the low speed compression and the air pressure in the Talas forks as a first step.

Had the same issue with a Hustler on a test day. Rode the Hustler, RM ETSX and a Kona Dawg primo all on the same day and trail.
Bought the Dawg 😆

Coming from a DH background I feel that there's nothing wrong with a short stem, and this case is probably no exeption, if I had to try and put my finger on the handling problems from a photograph, and your decription, I'd say that probably the BB is too high and the head angle too steep while your on the bike.....how much sag are you running on the rear?

try dialling in 30% sag on the rear when you're sat on the bike, see how that changes the ride.....just an idea, but thats what I'd do first

edit...also get the sag right on the forks too, aim for 20-25% when you're stood on the pedals

Try taking the spacers out from under your stem, and put them on top... You'll get more weight on your front wheel then.

I'd go with what 1nten5se is saying, though 35-40% sag is perfectly acceptable on some bikes. Having said that, I've never been able to get High Rollers to work properly for me, so a change of front tyre may help.

Isn't the most likely explanation that you're just not used to it?
Gotta love all the F1 mechanic style input above, its a bike, remember...
Just learn to ride it rather than attempting to spanner your way to nirvana after one ride....

tbh I never ever got comfortable on my 6" FS in low-speed situations.

I put it down to long legs and a seat up in the sky... and general inexperience.

And when I ran loads of sag, the pedals would catch the ground too easily.

Went back to a HT, stayed here since.

But yours looks to have a short wheelbase, for its height - also try backing off your tyre pressures, and/or run a 'softer' front.

+1 crikey - it's a new bike, you're not used to it, and if you add in the suspension at the back it's normal that you're having problems. Give it a couple more rides, then start playing about with the suspension!

As mentioned above, the bike looks fine nothing that should be troubling you in terms of components. Have you set the sag yet? If not do that, do you have the correct spring rate in the fork? Have you set your rebound and compression yet? If you have just thrown it together and ridden you might want to set up the suspension as no ammount of riding it will get you used to a fork spring rate that is way to low. Try and borrow a copy of Dirt fundimantals and use the suspension guide by Tim Flooks on it as a starting point.

Iain

[i] it's a new bike, you're not used to it[/i]

I agree with this - especially if you're not used to a stem that (fashionably) short. Can make a big difference to the steering characteristics.

You have got the correct weight spring in the back haven't you?

I thought they had a longish wheelbase hence the less than nimble on switchbacks issue.

It's got to be the stem, this one looks better balanced (not mine)

[img] [/img]

I would ride it for a while,It might be the way you are riding it,I would thing you might need to increase the front fork pressure, and/or increase low speed compression.

Is the rear sagging correctly,25-30%.

It's a 50mm stem so it has his weight pushed back as far as it will go. The stem length affects the rate (or speed) of turn not the steering angle which is determined by the ha not stem length.

It could be that your using too much steering lock and yes that could be due to running a much shorter stem than usual. Running a wider bar could have the same affect.

I think I found your problem; its a freeride bike and therefore not actually built for anything other than doing tricks and going downhill...

I had this problem on my bike for a while. I then realised I had my forks set way too soft. I thought for ages that that might be the problem, but I didn't have a shock pump to check. Firming up the forks made a world of difference.

That lawn needs some attention...

Thanks for all the advise, there are definitely some areas that I can look at straight away and also I think I need to spend a bit more time in the saddle to get more a feel for it.