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Quick question to owners, have a frame hopefully arriving mid November, was planning a parts transplant but suddenly thought boost rear end am I going to run into issues using my current xt m785 chainset with single ring or do I need to factor in a boost chainset to give adequate chainstay clearance?
I think it might depend on how large the chainring it, but it might work. No harm in trying it and if it doesn't work then you might be able to get a boost chainring for your chainset.
Awesome, cheers rover. Hadn’t even occurred to me until I’d started stripping the old bike in preparation
So I've now ordered a frame, got a set of 140mm 2019 Pikes that I got for a bit of a bargain (relatively speaking) and some DT Swiss XM481 rims laced to 240 hubs coming from Germany next week. New tyres, stem, headset and a couple of other bits arriving Christmas day (all being well) and I should be good to go. Drivetrain, saddle post etc. all coming off my current bike.
First 29er and I can't wait, all I need to worry about now is Invisframing and building it 🙂
Great. Look forward to the pictures. Couldn't be bothered with inivisiframing mine, just a few patches of 'copter tape in places where it might rub (cables and where it mounts on the roofrack). But then I quite like the look of the odd scar 🙂
Fathomer, I know you probably already have but check how long the steerer is. Just bought a Rocketmax frame and I had to buy a different stem with only 30mm stack to get it on my 175mm steerer.
Edit: sorry, just noticed your forks are new 🙂
@roverpig looking at my Transition which is Invisiframed, it'll still have loads of scars.
@Brake-neck thanks but like you say I've gone for new forks 🙂
So, my frame is here and invisiframed, its bloody lovely 🙂
Anyway, I'm in the process of building the rest of it but not sure on one thing. The gear cable where it goes in and out of the frame, do you need a ferrule or is it just the Jagwire thing one end and the rubber bug the other? Ta.
https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/flareMAX#gallery
Think you can just about see in these pics, ferrule by the shock, extra wrap sleeve thing by the mech.
Thanks woots787 but I thought it looked like no ferrule at either. I've emailed Cotic just to make sure.
Pretty sure I used a Jagwire thing at both ends on mine. Seems to have been fine.
Thanks @roverpig got the cables sorted.
Last question hopefully, I've never had so many little issues when building a bike. Is anyone else's chain very close to the chainstay when in the smallest sprocket, by the time I put the protector I'm pretty sure it'll be touching? (32t ring/10t sprocket)
I've got an 11t and it is close but doesn't touch when stationary, my bike was an ex-demo and there was a fair bit of paint missing on the flat bit on the top of the chainstay so it definitely touches when ridden. I got the sticky back velcro out and covered anywhere paint was marked. The bike is quiet so I shouldn't be bothered but the 'free with MBUK in the nineties' Neoprene chainstay protector is definitely my least favorite bit of the bike by a good margin.
Also I've upset my friends by getting a Dakine Gripper rather than using insulating tape. Fits a tube, 2x20g C02 and tyre levers nicely on the downtube under the shock. It did spin round when landing some jumps so I used a bit more sticky back velcro on frame and back and it's been great since.
@woots787 thanks again, I'll get the build finished and see how I go. I'm planning on self amalgamating tape on the chainstay.
And the grippers look very neat, might have to treat myself at some point 😀
Is it a boost chainring? I’ve not noticed it being a problem and haven’t lost any paint. I’m running a standard GX eagle boost drivetrain. I do have the Cotic chainstays protector pushed up towards the cranks (so it covers the flat bits) and am very rarely in the 10 unless I’m on a road, so maybe that’s a factor.
I like the idea of these, some people seem to have commented on the slackish seat tube suggesting climbing ability miggt be compromised over those with steeper angles. Whats your experience flaremax owners? And what did you compare it to?
I haven't ridden anything with a steep seat angle and would be really interested to try. I haven't yet seen a good explanation of what the steep seat angle gets you to improve climbing so much, is it weight balance between the wheels or a more open hip angle? A few pages back I asked a similar question and it seemed that if you downsized the frame so you ran a lot of post you were more likely to have an issue with the front wheel wandering. For me 178cm on a large I'm happy with the weighting of the wheels and have a much more open hip angle from the long reach so feel great on it. I think you have to demo different bikes to be sure. I wonder if forward offset seatposts will become a thing?
Well, according to the great God Strava I've set a fair few PRs on climbs since getting my FlareMax. So, you could say that I've compared it to every other mountain bike I've owned (four full-suss, two hardtails and two rigid fatbikes) and found that it's better 🙂
On a more subjective note; I've probably said this more than once already on this tread, but the climbing was the thing that most surprised me with the FlareMax. Not just the speed but the balance. I do like a climb but this is the most comfortable I've felt climbing off-road. I can (and do) push it and get PRs, but it also allows me to set a more comfortable pace and winch my way to the top without ever really feeling off balance. I don't know if the SA plays a part in that, but it feels good enough that I'd be reluctant to mess with it.
Now for the rambling bit 🙂 I've also never really understood the modern fashion for a steep SA, but maybe just because I haven't spent much time with one. Everyone seems to say that they help climbing, but I've never heard a convincing explanation for why. Years of evolution of the bike has led us to the conclusion that a SA around 72 degrees is about right for all day comfort and efficiency. A bit steeper for a TT bike, but not for anything you'd want to ride all day. So why are we suddenly being told that mountain bikes need a steeper SA to be good at climbing? Is it just a matter of shifting your weight forward to keep the front down when it gets steep? If that's the case then I wonder if it's just a crude fix for the problems caused by short chainstays. The FlareMax has longer that average chainstays and I've never had a problem with the font lifting on any long climb that I could actually ride up. I think I probably do shift my weight forwards for those short super steep sections. But those sections are short enough that shifting forwards isn't an issue. For sustained climbs it feels totally planted anyway, so I'm not sure why I'd want to move away from the SA that has proved to be the best compromise for over a hundred years! As I say, that could just be because I've not tried enough steep bikes. I suspect the next iteration of the FlareMax will be steeper as that's the current trend and I think the RocketMax is. But will it be better? I don't know. The current one is a tough act to beat.
I've only spent a day on the Flaremax but echo @Roverpig's thoughts. it's no weight weenie but flew up climbs. Technical and drags. And when things got steep it didn't wander. That may well be down to the stays. I would go as far as to say that for a bike of that nature it felt pretty zingy on the hills.
I'm no engineer but guessing that the steeper seat angle is a bi-product of the fashion for long bikes. A slacker seat will only push you even further back from the bars. So is it for climbing prowess as the marketeers will have you believe? Or just so you can feel like you're not overly stretched?
Weighed mine today ... it’s not the lightest build, it is an Xl, and it is running a Hope 35w 27.5 rear wheel with a 2.6 tyre on ... and Pikes
32 lbs ... I was expecting a couple more ...
A steeper seat angle in theory should put you in the middle of the bike when seated. It should rotate your hips allowing for a better down stroke.
If you have a slack seat post then the larger the post extension the further over the rear axle you will be. Which in turn unweights the front wheel, unless you sit right on the tip of the saddle.
A steeper seat angle in theory should put you in the middle of the bike when seated.
Surely that depends on how long the front and rear centres are. To take a silly example, if you had long chainstays and a really short top tube then you’d want a slack SA to get you in the middle of the bike. Which is why I was saying that I thought steep SAs were a response to bikes that had got longer at the front while keeping the chainstays short.
It should rotate your hips allowing for a better down stroke.
If that’s the case, why don’t those Tour riders use a steeper SA? Surely they want to put out more power too.
Not trying to be argumentative. I just don’t understand the logic for having a steeper SA on a mountain bike. I suspect there is something too it as so many people seem to prefer it. I’m just not sure why.
As far as I understand, the whole point of the ‘long/low/slack’ movement is to get riders more centred ‘in’ the bike, so this probably makes sense. Obviously front is going to come into it, but I think someone pointed out above that leaving seat angles where they were would tend to shift weight back and lighten the nose - exactly the opposite of what the new geo is trying to achieve.
I think the takeaway is that if you’re prepared to embrace the new thinking, current geo trends work well, but if you’re going to try and old-school it, a more conventional shorter bike may be better. I’m also noticing that the geo debates are heading the way of the 27.5/29 saga with ‘long bikes for speed and unskilled riders, short bikes for pros’ type comments coming up fairly often. Hopefully that’s not going to be the next couple of years of arguments!
Disclaimer: my main bike is currently one of the first generation Soul275’s...
The difference is in straight vs seat tubes that either don't emerge from the BB or are cranked. If you have a straight seat tube then SA remains the same regardless of saddle height. If you have one with a cranked seat tube like the FlareMax then the effective SA gets slacker and slacker as the saddle goes up.
So for me at 6ft with a 35" inseam on a large I had to put the saddle all the way forward on the rails (and it would have been even more so if I could) to get a comfortable climbing position on the FlareMax. If you have shorter legs for your height then it becomes less of an issue.
From chatting to various friends and others at the demo I suspect that the SA on the FlareMax was designed to suit the short legged fraternity.
Or my personal suspicion is that the wrong design was signed off on (compare to the RocketMax). I simply can't believe that they didn't take a range of body shapes into account when designing which doesn't leave many other explanations.......
Shame really as it was fantastic down the hill but pedalling it back up was an awkward experience. Not wandery but just like it was trying to bend me into a wrong shape that was very inefficient for pedalling. My hips felt miles behind the BB yet was quite stretched out to the bars which meant that I felt like I was pushing forward not down through the pedals.
@roverpig - regarding SA. I just checked the geometry of my Spearfish and it has a SA of 73deg. The Spearfish is designed as a long distance racer and is definitely an "all day" bike (and the next and the next ...). My Mk1 Solaris has a SA of 72.5deg and is also fine for all day riding, the current generation is 74deg!
Exactly! The front centre of the new bikes are longer than old so need to be steeper to compensate. Otherwise you would be streched out like superman.
Road bikes are totally different and thats why manufacturers are moving mtb away from road geometry. Old mtb were basically modified road bikes but the technology has moved forward i.e. suspension and the like. My supersix has a sa of 74.1 My remedy has a sa of 74.6 so no real difference.
Oh and by the way. Im not an expert on any of this and nobody can say anyone else is wrong as its so personal. What feels good to me might be utter shait for you. I know what numbers I like on a bike so piking one is easy but I went through a few to get to this point.
Thanks all, some very good points. I must say the FlareMax is the most comfortable and balanced bike I’ve ever owned. But that could be because I’m an odd shape and doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be even better with a stepper SA. For what it’s worth I’m 6’ but (only) have a 33” inside leg and I do have the saddle pushed forwards a bit as well.
mrmoofo - Member
Weighed mine today … it’s not the lightest build, it is an Xl, and it is running a Hope 35w 27.5 rear wheel with a 2.6 tyre on … and Pikes
32 lbs … I was expecting a couple more …
I weighed mine the other day on my cheap luggage scales and it's about 33.5lbs (scales wouldn't settle). That's with a sturdy but nothing ridicoulous build. Pikes, DT Swiss 240's/XM481/Sapim D-Lite's, Maxxis DHF/DHR's and Hope E4's. Plus as I can't get the OneUp dropper working it's getting a heavier dropper (Brand X).
Can't say I'm looking forward to carrying it up Lakes land passes in the summer 🙂
Demo’d A FlareMAX and a RocketMAX today. First time on a FS in about 4 years.
RocketMAX definitely too much bike (also marred by comical fast rebound rear shock setting, only really discovered on the orange descent at Laggan... ☺️). Felt a better position though.
Both Bikes had the CC rear shock, how do people find the XFusion one? Worth the £250 uplift? Quite liked the 140mm Trace HLR fork.
In comparison to the RocketMAX the FlareMAX felt short. It definitely said large on the seat tube though.
Would hope orange bits make it go any faster though? Scarey to see how much my preferred build adds up to... ☺️
I think the CC is a pretty common upgrade but I’m quite happy with the Xfusion. There isn’t much in the way of rebound damping though. Even I need to have it on the max damping, which could be an issue if you wanted more.
I’m nowhere near rad enough to push any shock, which may be why I like the Xfusion. I like the fact it has a very firm compression setting for the road and a fairly firm one for off road climbs, plus a light platform and open for JRA and descending. I think the CC is more active even with the climb switch on, which is what put me off it. But then I rate climbing performance at least as highly as descending and I suspect the latter is where the CC shines. Well that’s my take on it anyway. I suspect the Xfusion may be a better option if you really care about climbing, but for most normal people the CC is probably going to be the preferred option.
The large RocketMAX does indeed have more reach than the large FlareMAX, so you're not imagining it feeling longer. Rear end is the same though. Not sure about the "too much bike" thing these days myself.
It's a funny old world where the longshot FlareMax is considered short though 🙂
Yeah, it's not really, is it. If you want the same "fit" as the RocketMAX, you just need the 10mm longer stem.
Not sure about the “too much bike” thing these days myself.
Did you see the bit where I said first FS ride in 4 years? Jumping to a RocketMAX is a BIG jump 🤣 coming from a hard tail on the FlareMAX I felt more ‘connected’.
Rebound dialled hard to the max rp , hmm, I like a slow rebound, that might be a significant problem (I’ve changed a Fox air can out before because i couldn’t get rebound to work). I’m not a suspension fettler but I like to be able to find a setting that works for me (and then leave it at that...). I’ve always run fully open shocks (I had a bike that ‘sat up’ and felt shit climbing on the fox lockout, another reason it got binned) front and back I haven’t experienced significant bob (probably riding too sloooww)...
The FlareMAX felt to me like the saddle was too far back (it wasn’t) rather than it being too short so maybe a 45-50mm stem would sort that out. Got a feeling I thought the bars on the RocketMAX were rolled more forwards too...
Hey, at least I’ve managed to get a build cost sub £4k this am 🤪
Sounds as though you are going to have to spring for that CC shock I’m afraid 🙂 I’m no suspension expert but I wonder whether the droplink design “hides” a bit of the rebound damping (changing leverage ratios or something).
Fit is very personal, but I must admit I was out on mine yesterday and funnily enough I was reflecting on the fact that it doesn’t feel long any more. In fact I don’t think it ever has really. Slack, yes, but not long. It’s always just felt as though it fits.
I found the trick to getting the build cost down was to re-use a few bits from the shed and not include them in the calculations 🙂
@metalheart - which ride were you on then at Laggan? I was lapping with the kids and my eldest had a bounce on the Rocket at lunch.
@mattoab: 12.30& 2.30 rides.
Was it you with the 'kid' on the black rocket talking about wanting the CC damper?
Yes, so your the tall chap with beard?
That's eldest_oab who was bouncing around...
@mattoab: Correct. If you were going to ask, the beard was what I was going to mention 😆
Spoke with Paul @cotic, there’s 10mm difference from the large Solaris/SodaMAX and the FlareMAX so I wasn’t imagining it, it is Short... 🤪
Also, conclusion is that I’d be happier with CC damper.
It’s not cheap this bike malarkey is it?
Good to meet you.
And you, eldest oab looked like he would make decent use of a rocket...
Does the chain line work with a non-boost 2x shimano crank singled up?
Just wanted to say big thanks to Roverpig for this thread, its been so helpful (along with everyone at Cotic) and has answered many of my questions. Roverpig's descriptions completely ring true for me, what a stonking bike! Here's my Flaremax:
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