[Closed] Neck braces = snake oil?

Fwiw Ive
Been told there is evidence and info regarding CE markdown the Leatt site, but the mobile site doesn't have anything.
Anyone know how to stop an iPhone going to the leatt mobile site or just check the main site for me :/

Boing?

Anyone??

I thought about buying one for my alps trip....had pretty much decided it was a total waste of time/money, but a niggling doubt remained in my head... mainly about how silly Id feel if I scrimped on 200 quid and ended up breaking my neck.

In the end I bought one, it was ridiculously uncomfortable and looked like a toilet seat round my neck..

luckily I never got to find out whether it worked or not...I suspect not..

I think they're worth it if you are regularly doing high speed DH.
kids seems to wear them as a necklace with their Troy Lee D3, along with no other body armour. but I guess the risk might be higher for them with their lollipop heads and skinny necks.

It's a subject I've been interested for some time as someone who is involved in the treatment of spinal injuries.
There is nothing at all published in peer review medical journals.
Leatt have done their own in house testing and I believe are in the process of releasing their evidence in a series of videos.
In the scientific world private research not published for the public scrutiny of the methodology, and conclusions effectively means there is no evidence.

Edit: [url= http://www.leatt-brace.com/company/leatt-lab/lab-tv ]Here[/url] is a link to one of these videos.
Cheers Ant!

Yep. Though, to be fair a lack of external testing doesn't automatically mean there's no benefit either- there's no CE test for neck braces frinstance so it's an absence of testing rather than an absence of succesful tests. Hopefully we'll see that change at some point, they've become fairly popular lately.

Like tpbiker I purchased one just to give myself the best chance should i have a big accident.
In the time I've owned the leat brace I have one big headplant and the brace seemed to keep my head straight and my whole head locked in position.
I have read that extreme impacts can cause collar bone brakes as in the cases of MX and desert racing etc so in effect the Collar bone is sacrificed.
In the absence of independent research the debate will go on !!!

" it was ridiculously uncomfortable and looked like a toilet seat round my neck.."

Not too bothered about the looks, but I struggled a bit comfort wise at first. I'd suggest lots of adjustment/fettling as I don't know I'm wearing mine now.

The Commissaires a races are constantly telling people off for walking around with the brace on without the helmet. Some guy fell over with one on and broke his neck or something. So kids, if you buy one, make sure and undo it when you are strolling about the park.

I actually ended up going with an Evs rather than leatt one...i'd read it was less likely to break the collarbone, and also read somewhere that the leatt should not, under any circumstances be worn without the helmet as if you fell over whilst walking it actually increased the likelyhood of injury! Not sure how true this is however.

Either way, the EVS had zero adjustability...

Keep looking at neck braces and thinking Id rather not crush anymore vertebra.

Crush injuries are not what these are meant to prevent; more "whiplash" style injuries.

Hmmmm, interesting.

I'm going to Whistler in a few weeks and was toying with the idea of getting one.

I do some DH here, so it won't be used soley for the holiday.

I have crashed (came up short last year in Chatel) while wearing a Leatt & I believe it 'saved my neck'

This was the carbon lid bottom edge where it impacted onto the brace.

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what are we meant to be looking at? ^^

The cracks & broken carbon weave / matting

They've saved loads of spinal injuries already. Anything that transfers impact force away from the neck will have an effect. Same with wrist guards, if everyone wore them riding I doubt we'd see another broken wrist. Nobody wearing one has been paralyzed at Whistler BP and they have about 6 people paralyzed annually.

JCL you may be right but there isn't evidence to support that comment and in this day and age no evidence means its just a matter of opinion which doesn't count for much.
There isn't evidence to say that these protective devices don't work either TBF.
The reason I am interested in this is that I have treated many kids with serious spinal injuries who were wearing these braces. My concern is that these kids and their parents thought they were safer with the braces on.
It may actually be that these braces increase the risk of serious injury and until somebody does independent non commercially motivated research nobody will ever know.

Nobody wearing one has been paralyzed at Whistler BP and they have about 6 people paralyzed annually.

Don't know about the neck braces but re wrist guards, isn't there evidence, from snowboarding in particular, that the force which would have caused a wrist injury is simply transferred resulting in # of radius/ulna ?

a niggling doubt remained in my head... mainly about how silly Id feel if I scrimped on 200 quid and ended up breaking my neck.

In the end I bought one

Isn't that the only reason [i]anyone[/i] has ever bought a neck brace?

I'm sure they're well-intentioned and they're obviously doing their in house studies to improve the product, which is great. But there wasn't anything especially convincing on that video - I remain skeptical of their real-world benefit.

In 2006 I was riding the Pleney and pre-jumped into a near bomb hole section. My front wheel landed into a braking bump (hole); my forks compressed fully and extended, which coupled with the speed, threw me some distance over the bars.

I landed on my head then right hip very awkwardly and knocked myself out. As I landed I twisted so violently that I fractures my L2 vertebrae. Would a neck brace have prevented this?

I don't think so - if I remember correctly, the L2 is 5th up from bottom. I'm more concerned that they make people think they can't get hurt, and then ride beyond their capabilities. This is what causes big injuries.

Edit: also, a part of my job is to investigate fatal & life altering injury RTC's. Clearly, there's a difference between a car or motorcycle crash and a MTB crash (the former are more violent and more likely to kill you), but one thing that occurs to me is that in 9 years of doing this I have dealt with many fatals and just one life altering crash involving broken necks, and every single death has been caused by the vehicle turning over and the force coming directly from above. The neck is designed to be very flexible in many directions but the one that virtually always has terrible consequences is the direct from above impact. A neck brace will do sod all for that.

Now this is not to say fatalities or serious injury does not occur due to whiplash injuries, but theyre generally at a minority.

I'm more concerned that they make people think they can't get hurt, and then ride beyond their capabilities. This is what causes big injuries.

The year before I made the the same gap. 😉

[quote=mildred ]I'm more concerned that they make people think they can't get hurt, and then ride beyond their capabilities. This is what causes big injuries.
Just like helmets then.

I'm more concerned that they make people think they can't get hurt, and then ride beyond their capabilities. This is what causes big injuries.

the parents who buy their children neck braces are the same parents who buy them a top end DH bike, "need" doesn't come into it 😉

personally I reckon a neck brace would do me more harm than good

Just like helmets then.

Fair point, though I think the benefit of a helmet has been thoroughly tested for certain injuries.

I agree and am concerned that kids and their parents believe they are being protective by wearing neck braces when no evidence of safety benefit at all exists.
Do they know this? I doubt it. I think they should before they make their purchase and hit the trail.

Good point - who does test these things?

The neck is designed to be very flexible in many directions but the one that virtually always has terrible consequences is the direct from above impact. A neck brace will do sod all for that.

Surely the difference being you are not seat belted in a 2 tonne box, the impact marks on top of my helmet & the direction of travel makes me think the impact was from above.

GW given your stance on helmets I am not surprised with your opinion here.
At least your consistent and I respect you for that! 😀

I wear a full face when riding DH and other types of armour at certain tracks hugor

, the impact marks on top of my helmet & the direction of travel makes me think the impact was from above.

I'm possibly missing something here; if because of marks on top of your helmet and your direction of travel, you believe you landed on your head, and looking at those leatt braces they're designed to prevent "whiplash" style injuries, how did the brace "save your neck"?

I'm not saying it didn't - I wasn't there, but it's just as easily the case that [i]it[/i] didn't.

The neck is designed to be very flexible in many directions but the one that virtually always has terrible consequences is the direct from above impact. A neck brace will do sod all for that.

Without even looking into it, I would far rather have a neck brace filling out the space between my shoulders/collar bone area and the rim of the helmet if I were to have an impact from above. Its got to do more good than harm in that direction,surely?

Where will it all end ?
[url= http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/December/dec1411-airbag-suits-you-aint-seen-nothing-introducing-safety-sphere/ ]Ultimate protection[/url]

Fair point, though I think the benefit of a helmet has been thoroughly tested for certain injuries.

Yes but risk compensation means that helmeted riders are more likely to crash cancelling out any benefit.

i havent read any of the posts after the first. but this will help clear it up.

Don't know about the neck braces but re wrist guards, isn't there evidence, from snowboarding in particular, that the force which would have caused a wrist injury is simply transferred resulting in # of radius/ulna ?

I personally think this is a misconception, and haven't seen any evidence to convince otherwise, but if it were true wouldn't you rather have a broken radius/ulna than a scaphoid? Or a broken collar bone rather than a neck?

The neck is designed to be very flexible in many directions but the one that virtually always has terrible consequences is the direct from above impact. A neck brace will do sod all for that.

If you read the literature published by Leatt and Alpine stars you will find this is exactly what they are designed for.

The reason I am interested in this is that I have treated many kids with serious spinal injuries who were wearing these braces. My concern is that these kids and their parents thought they were safer with the braces on.
It may actually be that these braces increase the risk of serious injury and until somebody does independent non commercially motivated research nobody will ever know.

What specific injuries are we talking about? I hear a lot of crap regarding the rear section of the brace causing damage to the spine itself. Good interview with Leatt dispelling some myths here -

Nobody wearing one has been paralyzed at Whistler BP and they have about 6 people paralyzed annually.

Well that proves it then. 🙄

the parents who buy their children neck braces are the same parents who buy them a top end DH bike, "need" doesn't come into it

I don't wear one but I did buy one for my son. Not because they are trendy but because I would never forgive myself if he broke his neck for the sake of saving £150. I would prefer to find out that I wasted my money than find out too late that it could have saved him getting hurt.

Nobody wearing one has been paralyzed at Whistler BP

personally I reckon a neck brace would do me more harm than good

Yes but not everyone has your godlike skillz!!!

Where will it end?

When everyone's a Soltaran

[IMG] [/IMG]

DTJC a man who works for Leatt saying how fantastic Leatt neck braces are is hardly compelling; he is unlikely to say 'yeah this is what we make and how I get paid - there is no proof that suggests that it works at all other than the work which we do' is he.

mybike - you helmet looks barely scratched mate. I can't see any major damage other than some lacquer flaking off. I don't think your neck brace did anything.

Yes non of the people eating one page of the bible each mile while crossing India by train has ever been attacked by a white tiger...

brilliant! i lol'd.

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http://orthopaediciq.org/2012/04/23/why-the-leatt-brace-is-dangerous/

Not sure how much credit to give this doc, what are his motivations for writing the piece...

Kudos for Nols at the Facebook TRog page for finding it.

cheers boss - interesting topic for sure.

Nobody wearing one has been paralyzed at Whistler BP and they have about 6 people paralyzed annually.

Fortunately this is just another one of those 79.995% of stats made up for internet fourms.

Whistler doesn't see anything like that number. There has been cases of paralysis as a result if injury in the bike park, but its a rare occurance.

Whistler does however see neck injuries requiring precautionary colar/spine board evacuation, whistler also has an increasing number of riders wearing neck braces.

The chat from patrol is that they are seeing potential c-spine injuries being pushed into T-spine locations.

So, that would suggest that neck braces are for mountain biking what wrist guards are for snowboarding.... they simply move the stress location further away from the area being 'protected'.

This study is pre neck braces, but interesting reading and specific to WBP

[url= http://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(12)00015-4/fulltext ]Injury Study - Whistler Bike Park[/url]

Ride in whatever makes you comfortable, but not so much that you feel invincible and ride above your ability. /2c

That Injury study linked above was a very interesting read.
With most injuries going to one medical centre they've got a great opportunity to collect good statistical data which may shed some light on the protective value of lots of equipment.

I have one for sale if anyone is interested a Leatt Moto GPX club. In very good nick.

*tumbleweed*

I bought one but like to wear full armour and found it all didn't work right which is probably why you see so many people just wearing the brace, for me though I tuck and roll so shoulder pads and a spine protector are invaluable so I just got rid of the brace

Well I fall into the two big categories there, august and a broken collar bone, nice to know I'm not alone.

I can back up the wrist guard theory. Crashed snow boarding wearing wrist guards and just broke my arm at the end point of the wrist guard. Ended up being quite a bad break. One of the main problems is that when boarding you really want to fall with hands in a fist shape and fall on fore arms so you don't break wrist or fingers and you cant to that very easliy with wrist guards on. No comment on neck braces though.

Yes but risk compensation means that helmeted riders are more likely to crash cancelling out any benefit.

I'd be very suspicious if it exactly cancelled out!

I bought one a while ago and wear it intermittently for DH, if its dicking about locally maybe not, but Alps and trips to Spain I wear it, I don't use the straps just wear it loose and it doesn't hinder me that much and fits good.

I hope that I don't get round to testing it properly.

I have backed off on the rest of the armour though and only wear knee pads and a Troy Lee Designs BP 7850-HW Short Sleeve Shirt

Go GB!!!!

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