Trail centers got me into mtb, but i recently discovered the joy of natural riding (mostly around the lake district)
Trail centers seem somewhat contrived!
Maybe its just a phase i am going through ❓
natural as in in the buff?
You know those trails you're riding? They're not really natural. 🙂
Natural riding... is that naked like ?
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Natural is the best 🙂
Trail Centres are for benders!
vinnyeh - Member
You know those trails you're riding? They're not really natural.
I think you'll find that they are.
cycling: it's all good
All trails have been made,they dont just mystically appear!
[i]Trail centers seem somewhat contrived[/i]
Amen brother. Can't stand 'em.
I think you'll find that they are.
Ooh, I'd always thought that the majority of the rights of way were manmade?
My local "natural" trails are footpaths, sheep paths, sometimes old manmade drainage lines, at least one was a drover's road, other bits are in planted woodland, or around manmade reservoirs, some skirt around the edge of cleared sheepfold, another is the remains of a roman road, some of it was just made by bikes and walkers making a path by riding and walking, but none of it is natural. Say "non purpose built" and you avoid the pedants 😉
i hear hard tails are better than full suss too
yawn
vinnyeh - Member
I think you'll find that they are.
Ooh, I'd always thought that the majority of the rights of way were manmade?
And Man exists outside the natural world?
Northwind - Member
Say "non purpose built" and you avoid the pedants
Boo.
Yes a new Name should be made for the normal trails,amen brother...wot should thye be called?
"And Man exists outside the natural world? "
Depends who you ask, that's for another thread. But when we build a road, it's not a natural road, it's a manmade road. And when we introduce a species to a hillside and keep it in a pen and chop down the trees to accomodate them, and they make a trail, it's not a natural trail.
If you're going to argue that these things ARE natural, then so are trail centres 😉
Trailcentres provide an important and some would say essential role in 21st century mountain biking........i.e they keep numpties offa the good stuff.
Trail centres are great when all your local trails are a unrideable muddy mess and riding them means destroying them.
I'm staggered at the negativity towards trail centres....i've been biking for just 5 years and are therefore well established in biking by the time i started.
Each to their own but i just don't get the negativity.
Anything to get people riding is a good thing, but there is an element of 'you have provided facilities, and I now absolve myself of any thought or responsibility- ENTERTAIN ME' with some trail centre weekend warroirs.
i just don't get the negativity
Everyone knows that trail centres are just Scalectrix tracks for fat middle managers to haul their overpriced full suspension bikes round. They are so tame that they can be ridden on any bike, be it a cyclocrosser or a Raleigh Budgie, and the only thing worse than the deathly dull trails are the people who have the temerity to charge you for car parking or maybe try and sell you their hideous overpriced food.
Natural trails by comparison are the most fun you ever have in your life and make all man-made trails seem flat by comparison. You never have to lift your bike over vast numbers of stiles in order to ride something resembling a billiard table made from semolina, or push up a hill for 2 hours in roder to spend 10 minutes riding back down, those are just spurious rumours. If anyone who rides trail centres ever tried to ride a natural trail (not that they ever do) they would be dead within seconds. The best ones are in places that require Native Indian-style tracking and navigation skills to find, so luckily they can never be found and spoiled by the braying masses.
Hope this has cleared everything up. 😉
+ for Bassspine's comment above!
You only need a 140mm travel FS for trail centres so everyone one can ride them, natural trails on t'other hand require a rigid Ti SS, so only open to a few.
Or so I've heard 😀
Oh how us real bikers scoff at the masses on their bikes with too much suspension and their body armour at the trail centres. Those morons wouldn't understand what it is to be a real biker. We are so much better than them.
Do you know most of these "trailcentre trash" couldn't even tell you the difference between an XT and an XTR rear mech, and they don't know how to strip down and repair their own hubs! Hardly any of them can read a map! They read Dirt Magazine! They don't even know what a Jones is I wager.
Coming from one of those dull impoverished areas of the UK where nature contrived to convince the inhabitants to carve some of the nicest rides ever built, can I suggest trail centres were one of the best things I ever invented as it has kept so many of your badass riding techniques from tearing up our local mountain turfs 😉 Trail Centre riding is as good as it gets, believe me most of you will never need to look further than the next numbered waymark post for a good days entertainment.. relax and ignore these heratics. .they are just baiting you.
Can you not enjoy both for what they are and simply ride them for the pleasure of getting out on your bike and spending time in the company frends?
Or does this create a paradox that would engulf the world in an apocolypse as the purists on both sides melt down in a critical mass of intolerance and bigotry?
Some trail centres are great. So are some "natural" trails. But with the rose tinted glasses off I can't think of many "natural" trails that have the same effort/reward payoff as a good trail centre. But it's all just riding bikes.
- what tyres are you running on your budgie for trail centres at the moment out of interest? I was using Conti Vert Pros but they're getting harder to find in the right size...Raleigh Budgie
😉
Dolmio=Italian cuisine,The Daily Mail=journalism,Big Brother=entertainment,Trail Centres=mountain biking?....Discuss.
I know Dylan,I know......
Internet = global information centre or pron facilitator, discuss 😆
I think the people that don't like them are the people who have failed to develop any skill in mountain biking. They are motivated, as ramblers are, by the view and possibly the social aspect of riding with like minded saga members.
i like natural trails.
i like trail centres.
shoot me.
I quite like occasionally visiting GT or Inners, and never fail to leave without that buzzing-big smile feeling, but I have to admit, I prefered them when they were in that transitional phase between natural and full on artificial trail centre- GT in particular had the odd long kill-yourself-fast descent, before it all became switchbacks and hairpins.
I still prefer fully natural, at least for the (Saga-rambler type) views and solitude.
I suppose the thing I dont like about trail centres is the mentality it produces- with Mountainbiking being 'something that entails a long drive to a purpose-made playpark' kind of thing.
I find a lot of the new trail centres give you a good beating on a hardtail, which is a bit of a shame. I'm also overcome with car envy at trail centres as I don't have an Audi Avant or VW transporter.
I find that if you rock up in an M5 estate, cover everyone in gravel and then click your carbon santa cruz off the roof (careful not to get oil on your Rapha) then you are rad to the power of sick and everyone wants to be you.
I think there's a case for both...
Trail Centre - you know what you're going to get, you know it's ridable and you know 'roughly' how long you're going to be out. What's more generally they'll be good days out, certainly the riding will be good.
Natural - unknown largely, could be fire trail could be overgrown bridal path. (for me) the fun is in the OS map and figuring out where to go next. The trails can be proper hard to the point of carrying the bike. But, the reward in completing a section that's new to you is excellent.
Being in Aus it's all natural riding pretty much. And I do miss Affan etc to be honest, they were great days out. But, riding alone deep in rain forest or similar and coming across mad trail is unbeatable. Mind you, I've had my worst crashes out here - you get complacent over a non-mountain bike trail that's flowing freely, do a drop/jump and the trail isn't there any more*...! Marvelous
The one thing that is sacrilege is re-work of non-mountain bike trails to make them easily ridable. We've had this out here; trail+grader=car width flat track, i.e. boring.
Andy
* Now sporting a broken nose from just such an event.
Love the 'natural' trails, proper all day middle-of-nowhere, fantastic views and not see a soul stuff.
However, I shall be off for two weeks of trail centres next month. This time of year something well drained and nicely surfaced kind of appeals.
There is no 'best', merely 'what I fancy today.'
Yeterday morning I tried to ride "natural" trails in Swaledale, but couldn't because of the snow, so we went to Dalby and rode it all in the afternoon.
Trail centres won on that occasion...
Also, many years ago discovered Glentress by chance, just after the trails had been built, but before they officially opened. That was an eye opener!
BUT: Give me a Lake District bridleway (or cheeky path) any day (except when there's too much snow)
Where's JoB when you need him for a pointless argument like this?
I've never been to a trail centre. But would bloody love to be a [i] fat middle manager haul[ing] [my] overpriced full suspension bike round [/i] one.
Just to see what it's like.
Raleigh Budgie
That sounds like a fun challenge in fact. Shoot out of the old classics... Budgie might be a bit small, so make it Chopper vs Grifter vs Burner vs Strika on a purpose built trail and a sheep-made singletrack.
I like trail centres cos there's no walkers to shake their metal spears at me
Good to see that there are still plenty of people out there with chips on their shoulders.
- do you mean planned, manufactured, manipulated? Well of course they are. How could anything that has been designed and built NOT be?Trail centers seem somewhat contrived!
- Are you claiming that a group of elite amateur biking gods exists, and that they and only they should be able to ride "the good stuff"? Perhaps there should be an exam to pass and Bike Police to make sure the "good riders" don't have to mix it with the shitheads.Trailcentres provide an important and some would say essential role in 21st century mountain biking........i.e they keep numpties offa the good stuff.
Yeah, this is kind of the idea. People go biking to be entertained and enjoy themselves. Why is this a shock to you?Anything to get people riding is a good thing, but there is an element of 'you have provided facilities, and I now absolve myself of any thought or responsibility- ENTERTAIN ME' with some trail centre weekend warroirs.
Like it or not, this is the way it is. Only the very fringe sees biking as a lifestyle, most people see it as a fun hobby and they want the most bang for their buck. They want to park the car, ride, shower, eat then go home.I suppose the thing I dont like about trail centres is the mentality it produces- with Mountainbiking being 'something that entails a long drive to a purpose-made playpark' kind of thing.
You have self esteem issues. You feel threatened by those rich assholes with their nice cars and expensive bikes. Those rich assholes! They probably can't even ride! ARGH I AM SO ANGRYI find that if you rock up in an M5 estate, cover everyone in gravel and then click your carbon santa cruz off the roof (careful not to get oil on your Rapha) then you are rad to the power of sick and everyone wants to be you.
I like trail centres as there are no high horses!!!
Personally I like both. Love doing adventure races and rides out in the "natural" stuff, but also love the fun that can be had in the trail centres where you have a nicely defined trail that allows you to just enjoy riding and not having think about the navigation etc. Hopefully, like most things in life, the people who really get worked up about trail centres don't visit them. 😆
Trail centres were created by man, man is a species of life found on earth created by evolution, life appears to have started from a random mixing of amino acids on earth sometime in the past, the earth is a planet probably formed from dust particles accumulating as they rotate round the sun, the sun is a star probably formed from regions of molecular density thrown out by an expansion of initial hot and dense conditions from a singularity that was the start of our universe that was known as the big bang.
Hence trail centers are natural.
Unless of course your a theist and you think that God is actively participating in the creation of trails centers for some higher cause.
Or alternatively you might think they are the Devils work, however in both cases they would be super-natural.
Im not really sure God is a MTBer myself though or why would there be so much mud round where I live ?
"[i]Where's JoB when you need him for a pointless argument like this?[/i]"
my work here is done 🙂
Is 'natural' vs 'trail centre' going to be our equivalent of climbings 'trad' vs 'sport' debate??? If it is let's not even go there. Ride what you want, where you want, and enjoy it!
I like both AND football.
that allows you to just enjoy riding and not having think about the navigation etc.
hmmm I rarely give navigation any thought and have frequently gotten lost in trail centres so your argument doesn't hold water for me 🙂
Our local trails have every appearance of being very, very natural (e.g. this one: [url=
Thin Red Line[/url]).
If you ever stop to have a look over the side of the trail, you find that the sweet, flowing, natural contour singletrack you're riding is acutally held on to the side of the mountain by substantial dry-stone walls in many places. They're actually old trans-humance trails, hand-built and used for moving people & cattle up and down the mountains for centuries. Not only does this mean they have a great, flowy gradient, they also drain fantastically well and never get muddy.
Natural vs man-made is a matter of degrees, it's not black and white.
I'd much rather ride twisty trails at Glentress, Kirroughtree, Laggan or Golspie than a lot of the straight-line, dull, dull, dull boulder fields that comprise many Lakes and Peak bridleways (not all, I know).
than a lot of the straight-line, dull, dull, dull boulder fields that comprise many Lakes and Peak bridleways (not all, I know).
examples ?? And how in hell can a boulder field be dull ? Scary perhaps...
dull:
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/14jun/DSC_0126_.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/14jun/DSC_0126_.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
examples ??
That boulder-filled ditch that runs along the ridge from the road-pass near the top of Mam Tor. Can't remember what you call it. Supposedly a classic of Peak district riding. Half a mile of baby-head rocks to rumble over. 😉
Anyway, you call that a boulder field?
[img] 
[/img] 😉
dull:
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2008/13jul/_DSC0284.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2008/13jul/_DSC0284.jp g"/> [/img] [/url]
That boulder-filled ditch that runs along the ridge from the road-pass near the top of Mam Tor
say [b]WHAT??[/b]
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/29mar/DSC_0471_.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/29mar/DSC_0471_.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/29mar/DSC_0494_.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/29mar/DSC_0494_.jp g"/> [/img]e[/url]
fantastic fun 🙂
But you've made your point - if you don't like that kind of thing then trail centres are probably best for you 🙂
Half a mile of baby-head rocks to rumble over
Like a lot of Highland riding as well then.
fantastic fun
Meh. Straight-line, turn-off brain, no line-choice required dullness. 😉
Have I put enough of these in yet? 😉 😉 😉
Have I put enough of these in yet?
OK, ya got me 🙂
BTW, sometimes I find the ubiquitous wiggliness of trail centres rather contrived...
BTW, sometimes I find the ubiquitous wiggliness of trail centres rather contrived...
Agreed actually, there's nothing worse than a man-made corner which doesn't quite flow properly! Fine if it's natural, you gotta ride it as you find it, but when it's SUPPOSED to flow... Grrr!
Lenny - MemberRide what you want, where you want, and enjoy it!
Took the words right out of my mouth.
Last Sun I got the map out.
Today(and last night)I am just setting off, biking to & back, to my nearest trail centre because I am short of time today, have to go to work @ 6pm.
>Natural vs man-made is a matter of degrees, it's not black and white. <
Agreed - I see the distinction more one of man made versus purpose built.
Scotland also a prime example. The vast majority of the so called natural trails the mags and individuals on here wax lyrical about were / are variously: drove roads, military roads, coffin roads & Stalkers paths
Trail centre kitty litter versus "man-made" other stuff?
DONT FEED THE TROLL 😉
stevomcd - Member
I'd much rather ride twisty trails at Glentress, Kirroughtree, Laggan or Golspie than a lot of the straight-line, dull, dull, dull boulder fields that comprise many Lakes and Peak bridleways (not all, I know).
Yes not all indeed,variation there is in them,loads of twisty old packhorse trails,Cut Gate for one, And boulder fields are super fun to ride and get down,
trail centres most of the time is too predictable imo,once you ride them all i think..
Sfbarnes is that Chapel Gate in one of the pics?
Sfbarnes is that Chapel Gate in one of the pics?
no, the other side of the hill, from Rushup down to the turn towards The Roych
ahaa yeah other way,drop offs going down it...