I've considered a Ti HT build before and considered both these bikes. Similar purpose (aggro HT) but different geo - can make both work for me though. The Stanton Switch9er pictured is a 16.5" and I'd be going 18" so the proportions would be bigger (and I wouldn't go for the blue). I think the Chilli Dog is a large, so would be the size I'd go for. Switch9er has a few hundred off list atm, so sits just £100 more than the Radical.
Stanton politics aside (or not), which floats your boat - nothing more than Saturday morning musings and I have an itch to scratch?
The Radical has been on my radar for a while - I know some don't like the angles, but it looks huge fun. Stanton (was also on my radar before I built the FS) is arguably more nicely finished with details. Radical has external routing - dropper aside
I rode an 18” Stanton ti Switch9er a few years ago on a shop ride. It was a demo bike they built up for me as their first demo after Covid.
I had a steel version at the time.
I loved it. Very nimble. Really good pedal response. I decided I’d save up for one… but that’s when they got in trouble.
I like the look of the bottom one - is that the radical? The angles look good to me unless you’re doing loads of long distance! I love my relatively hardcore hardtail and it does everything - admittedly it’s not as hardcore as that!
I can relate to that itch for a titanium hardtail, got very close to a Turner Nitrous, but ended up with a Yeti Arc instead, no regrets yet but ... itch persists.
As for looks I will continue the traditional response when asked which of the two and suggest a third - The Turner Nitrous 🤣
James
The Turner Nitrous
Hmm, just had a look and it's not doing it for me, can't place my finger on it. Has a few nice details, but don't like the bend in the downtube and something about it just looks too 'ordinary' I think - not that the Stanton is exactly radical, but...
Going purely on looks the radical is hands down nicer looking, the almost continuous top tube / seat stay looks much nicer than the stanton. Obviously geometry would be more important, from the eye the radical looks more contemporary (slacker, steeper seat tube, increased stand over).
I’d much rather ride the Radical for winch and plummet stuff but I think that seat angle (because it’s a true angle being a straight tube from the BB) will prove quite tiresome if you’re covering miles over more rolling terrain.
Personally think this looks better than the Stanton:
plus also the Sonder signal ti, but appreciate for some it doesn’t have the cache of other brands (doesn’t bother me)
I have seen the very questionable e-bike experiments, but I would be interested in learning more about their politics.
Stanton politics aside (or not), which floats your boat
I’ve been lucky enough to have bought a used Cotic Soda (Thanks Northwind!) and I loved the way it rode and have passed it on to one of our sons. Replaced it with a Stanton Switchback Mk2 in 2018, which although different - I loved, but can no longer ride. My other son borrows that to ride with me and his Cotic Soda riding twin very occasionally.
I’d much rather ride the Radical for winch and plummet stuff but I think that seat angle (because it’s a true angle being a straight tube from the BB) will prove quite tiresome if you’re covering miles over more rolling terrain.
The seat angle is a bit of a concern. When I built my Ragley I found the (relatively) steep seat angle a revelation, especially with the length of the bike.
The Radical has the same reach and stack (and is surprisingly only 0.5° slacker up front). The seat angle is 2.5° steeper though and therefore the ETT is -24mm. Coupled with that, having quite a bit of seat post showing, the slacker angle of the Ragley puts the saddle even further back. The Ragley feels like a good riding position, with similar numbers elsewhere, riding the Radical might feel akin to sitting on the nose of the Ragley saddle 🤔
To get a similar ETT on the Radical I'd have to go for the Uber Long that has a 500mm reach (vs 480) as well as a massive wheelbase and is recommended for 6'1" upwards. I'm 5'11" with long legs
I'm afraid that I'm very out of my depth with all this, & clueless about geometry, but if it's just idle musings, the Forbidden Heathen looks nice.
FORBIDDENBIKE.COM There are also some big savings on Lynskey frames due to their current discomfiture but that might feel a bit risky.
Why Ti over steel?
Your Big Al has very similar geometry to my Moxie* and I think it’s pretty much perfect for a hardtail that can ride down anything you’d try on an enduro bike but can also be used on long XC rides.
* I’d liked the idea of the Moxie but thought the 77.5 deg seat tube angle was too steep - then I saw a group test of it vs a BFe and Bird with matching side-on photos and realised the claimed geometry charts and reality were quite different! Emailed Pipedream and they confirmed that at my saddle height the seat angle would be about 75.25 deg static with a 140mm fork. Offset and/or bent seat tubes make a big difference, especially if you’ve got long legs.
Your Big Al has very similar geometry to my Moxie
My post wasn't very clear, sorry - that screenshot was the Radical geo. Ragley is 75° seat angle and 658 ETT
“My post wasn't very clear, sorry - that screenshot was the Radical geo. Ragley is 75° seat angle and 658 ETT”
Yes, the Moxie’s geometry is like the Ragley’s! The Ragley seat angle is actually slightly steeper than 75 deg (that’s the actual seat angle and the bend and offset steepens the effective) whilst the Moxie’s seat angle is is much slacker than 77.5 (because that’s the effective SA @ head tube height and the actual is 72 deg). So they end up within about 1/2 deg and a few mm or so everywhere.
”Weight and aesthetics simply”
Have you considered a singlespeed? 😉
Have you considered a singlespeed?
No
I'm blowing out of my arse with a 30/51 on some of my rides 🤣
I can see the very steep seat angle on the Radical working if you’re twiddling low gears up steep stuff but for more moderate climbs where you pushing the pedals fairly hard I think you get more power when you’re pushing the pedals from far enough behind, as well as above.
I was having a think about this when riding this evening. Also there’s those moments when you’re sort of half in, half out of the saddle and if it’s too forward (and thus high off the ground) it doesn’t feel like a great position for control when you’re moving fast on undulating terrain.
My Stanton is 76deg SA, so sits between the Ragley and Radical - reach is 10mm shorter than both and 10mm less ETT than the Radical and 23mm shorter ETT than the Ragley. I have a 42mm stem on the Stanton though. It rides really well, but a few mm in the wrong places makes a big difference for me.
Radical are based in Shrewsbury, so when I'm ready, I might just shoot over and tie it in with a ride at Eastridge or Llandegla
My Stanton is 76deg SA
But I suppose that slackens a bit at the required 35% rear sag with 25% up front
also the Sonder signal ti, but appreciate for some it doesn’t have the cache of other brands (doesn’t bother me)
Didn't bother me either, still loving mine nearly 7 years on. SS for the last 2.
They're probably all made by Waltly anyway!
Surely selling off a kidney and transferring the funds to Ted James Designs is the correct answer!
"But I suppose that slackens a bit at the required 35% rear sag with 25% up front"
Yes - whilst the hardtail steepens a lot at sag. A good rule of thumb is that the head angle and seat angle on a hardtail both need to be 2 deg slacker than a full-sus, so 63 deg HA and 75 deg SA hardtail is like a 65 deg HA and 77 deg SA full-sus.
And if your Stanton is mulleted it'll be about a deg slacker all round.
It's not that hard to get your Stanton on a flat floor, measure the seat angle on the dropper with a clinometer on a smartphone, then turn the bike through 180 deg and do it again in case the floor isn't flat, then take the average. Then do the same on the Ragley. And then do the calculations for sagged vs static.
I think one of the best dimensions for sizing is BB centre to top centre of head tube.
I think one of the best dimensions for sizing is BB centre to top centre of head tube.
Yes, I do check this and compare across bikes I own tbh - my trigonometry isn't what it used to be to work that out on the Radical - albeit I'm sure I could manage it if I tried hard enough (with an online calculator 🤣)
