[Closed] My LBS refused my business...

Name and shame them, that's ridiculous turning away business in these times. Tell as many cyclists as you know not to use them.

Why would you have to take the tyres off to true the wheels? Can often even replace spokes without removing the tyre 🙂

A similar vibe to that...? 🙂

Is the owner French? That sounds like that joyously familiar Gallic service ethic. The only nation that can out-surly the English for service ethics 😀

They surely have the right to turn down work if they have something more lucrative to do. Doesn't every tradesman you've ever dealt with take the same approach?

My first thought was fully booked workshop.

And buy a spoke key!

I'm more subtle - I never turn down work, I just quote a silly price when I don't want to do something.

Sometimes that backfires, and I have to take the money...

[quote=bencooper ]Why would you have to take the tyres off to true the wheels? Can often even replace spokes without removing the tyre

Ok, I'll bite. I'm not an expert, but I can't see how you could true a wheel with the tyre on and guarantee it's true. The pressure of the tyre on the rim would surely affect things?

Hang on... they didn't suspect that you were Hora, did they?

they should either tell you the workshop is booked up for ages or charge enough to make it worth their while.

Can't be arsed with it = never go back there

You can get out side to side but not flat spots with the tyre on.

The pressure of the tyre on the rim would surely affect things?

A tiny amount, even with very high pressure tyres. And surely it's better to be true with a tyre fitted than without?

The only bit that's trickier to correct is radial trueness - lateral trueness is fine, radial you need to be a bit creative with the truing gauges.

'Radial' that's the word I was looking for

yes what he said you cannot measure the trype for roundness so you cannot true for that just lateral off ness

You could do it but it would be, at best, half a job

I may not be using the correct technical terms

You can, actually - what you do is run the lateral gauges on the spoke side of the rim, and move the gauge arm up and down. It's more of a faff but no less precise than using the usual gauge on the outer edge of the rim.

My LBS refused to build a wheel for me, just because it was slightly different to normal (an Alfine hub). Havent been back since. Slightly further away LBS was enthusiastic about doing something different, they now get my business.

My LBS refused to build a wheel for me, just because it was slightly different to normal (an Alfine hub). Havent been back since. Slightly further away LBS was enthusiastic about doing something different, they now get my business.

Tis possible I spose, if they are not an approved Shimano Alfine service centre, they would have invalidated the warranty on your hub.

Meh, it's a hub.

if they were busy say 'come back in 2 weeks we're chocka at the mo' or 'try this other bike shop down there.' Saying 'nahhh find someone else' is just rude.

Well I'd Luv to be Hora, I aspire to that wonderment that is the persona, but alas nahh.. I'm just obnoxious Moi...

Thing is. Thing is I’ve been going there on and off for about 10 years now. I don’t necessarily like the stuff he has in there but that’s his lot and he does well enough out of it.
But he’s a hardcore MTB’er, sells IBIS Mojo’s etc. (that’s’ his problem right there I suspect) and used to ride out with some mates of mine a while back (I’ve never ridden with him BTW) and as I do I thought I’d pop over there rather than the “chains” we have local, you know support your LBS and all that. Not like I haven’t bought stuff from in the past, in fact MrdBouy spend £200 in there buying birthday pressies for family back in April.

Al I wanted was the wheels truing up (he’s done this before on other bikes of mine) and reseating the tubeless(es) like init.
Not like the wheels are pikey eithers, Stans/Hopes 29er SS stuff, nothing out of the ordinary.. easy enough.. I just don’t have the time and I’m away for the next couple of weeks, thought I’d get them done and collect and go ride when I got back.

Anywhoo’s I know it’s his choice, I can take it or leave it. I can whine about it too.. it was just his abrupt manner and flat refusal to consider.
I’d name and shame but to be honest if you knew where I rode, you’d figure it out soon enough, no need to blast it out with a fog horn.

So my “chain” will complete my ask and as I was so pleased I bought some new ¾ bibs, two pairs of SixOne gloves, a new helmet and some more Stans fluid.

I am not Hora in disguise (honest)

Sometimes that backfires, and I have to take the money...

Wot jekkyl said.

The extra hassle of taking the tyres off, cleaning up the mess from the stans fluid, reseating the tyres and putting more stans in and dealing with tyres that won't seat easily (have they a compressor in the shop?) would probably mean that the job was hardly worth the £20.

They just didn't express it very well.

I would have taken the tyres off before taking them to the shop...

surely you have the "silly" amount of money in your pocket to improve your mood while you do the job

Yup - it's trickier when I don't know how to do whatever it is. I have a tendency to say "yes, no problem, I can build that" and make up a price, then have to work out how to make it later 🙂

Never failed yet, though.

Serves you right for using Tubeless 🙂

You would have been fine with normal tubed wheels.

god how hard is it to do either of those 2 jobs in the first place

I trued a wheel for the first time yesterday after watching some you tube, with the spoke key on my multi tool.

Wheel looks straight enough, so I consider that a success, although I haven't ridden it yet. It take but a few minutes and is worth learning.

If they can refuse business (continual business) in a recession they must be doing well. I wonder what the owner would have made of this? Let him know. If it was the owner then 😯

Truing stands come up in sales / Ebay every so often, makes fixing spokes etc so simple:

[img] [/img]

Tubeless is a total pain in the arse.

I try not to do them either, although i express this to the customer very differently to the shop in the op. Usually say we dont stock the sealent etc. (which is true).

they should either tell you the workshop is booked up for ages or charge enough to make it worth their while.

Hmmmmmm... my LBS tols me their workshop was full last week when I asked them to true up two wheels*... now I'm suspicious!

.

*(I can do most things, but I'm crap at truing wheels)

There's plenty of jobs that I've wished I had turned away (more due to the customer than the job tbh).

Proper tubeless tyre and rim or bodge job?

If it was half-assed tubeless, I'd make my excuses too! 😉

Don't blame the shop at all for not wanting to get mixed up in your tubeless setup for a mere twenty quid. It could lead to endless faffage and cost them a fortune.

me too,it can be a lottery as to whether it goes together in minutes, takes half an hour of faffing, or you have to concede it's not happening and make no money out of your wasted time.

Tubeless.. you need this

[img] [/img]

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ghetto-tubeless-inflator-total-cost-9p

HAAAha 🙂

I think it is better to say no I dont want to do it than grudgingly take on a job you hate and do it badly or leave it until last thing on a Friday night

Re-fitting tubeless MAY be 20-30 mins per wheel or more, messy, and need sealant. That plus a wheel true.. I can see how it simply isn't worth it for £20-30, to some. Not saying they're 'right' to turn it down, but I'm not exactly shocked either.

Which chain store accepted the job?

After his lesson in customer service, he really needs a lesson in charging the amount it's worth. If it's going to be a messy faff to refit them then charge for the sealant and the time..

I've just done a build for a guy that was using internal-nippled deep carbon tubular rims on track hubs... He bought them in laced all sorts of wrong, hoping that I would be able to "finish them off" for him.. In the end it took me nearly 2 hours to take them apart, degrease the spokes and nipples (somebody had told him to grease them.. 😯 ) and check the spoke measurements and order some more; and then several hours more to lace them properly, with washers at both ends, de-stress them lots (as there would be no chance to tweak them later), and glue some tubs on.

Some people here will fall over when I say that his bill is £240 for labour, but that is what it's worth to take on a job like that and make the time to do it properly.

somebody get this man a medal!

Tis possible I spose, if they are not an approved Shimano Alfine service centre, they would have invalidated the warranty on your hub.

What is this nonsense?

Building an alfine hub into a wheel does not invalidate the warranty.

I had problems with the shifting on my 2nd hub and madison swopped out it straight away despite the fact it wasn't built by shimano service centre (never mind a alfine one).

This is why lbs go out of business and good riddance.
Almost everyone I know has bad stories about them, odd when it Vikings never been so popular.

Name and shame them.

I strongly doubt that the original post is a verbatim transcript of a conversation that actually happened. I could be wrong, and perhaps the bike shop staffer was some sort of villainous knuckle dragging rogue

[i]" naaaaah mate. Can't be boverrrrrrred. Why don't you sling yer 'oook " [/i]

and the OP, the prim, proper and perfect gent

[i]" pardon my interruption good sir, but could you perchance acquiesce to faciliate solving my predicament if i may be so bold [/i]"

but I doubt it. Despite the op painting it exactly that way. Two sides to every story.

And even if he was as ghastly and villainous as is being portrayed, the reason was probably quite simply that fitting tubeless tyres for a customer is a thankless task. There is no guarantee that the rim and tyre combo will work, no guarantee that the rim tape was installed correctly, no guarantee the tyres would hold air, and in the event of any puncture, the shop would probably have a grumpy op demanding instant repair of a fault he is convinced they caused. And on top of that most people balk at the idea of paying the actual labour costs involved.

[quote=rocky mountain ]This is why lbs go out of business and good riddance.
Almost everyone I know has bad stories about them, odd when it Vikings never been so popular.
Name and shame them.
[img] [/img]??

My first thought was fully booked workshop.

And buy a spoke key!

My thought is the OP's bike shop even managed to miss the opportunity to sell a spoke key

odd when it Vikings never been so popular.

are I.T. Vikings the new keyboard warriors?

Takes me a day to mess about with a tubeless stuff at home what with all the frustration, swearing, failures, mess.

Few hundred quids worth for a days job would be fair. I don't work for less 😀

truing wheels should've qouted..
being surprised no one wants to mess with your goo filled tubless tyres 😥

used to work in a garage and any cars coming in for MOT or repair work that were covered in mud etc..were;
a) left till last.
b) avoided if it all possible..

take your tyres / rim strips etc off, clean the wheels up nice,
and you may find they will be intrested..
although were in a recession LBS's seem to be making so much money they can turn down work..

Ive a Trance, asked about bearing replacement, 1st question "did you buy it from us", no why "oh we only service bikes weve sold..
FFS
how much money are these guys making..

as an indication of mark up, simple plastic water bottle <£1 to the shop, £7 to you sir..
Singlespeed MTB, trade price +vat (£300), retail £700
thats how much markup..
and why they can be lazy.

[quote=nwilko ]
as an indication of mark up, simple plastic water bottle <£1 to the shop, £7 to you sir..
Singlespeed MTB, trade price +vat (£300), retail £700
thats how much markup..
and why they can be lazy.
You're obviously so wealthy and successful at what you do that entering the bike trade and earning these sort of margins is below your expectations then?

I think I'm the shop that 'turned you away', funny how we remember two different conversations

customer "any chance you can fit these tubeless tyres, as i cant get them from not leaking"
me "If I'm honest, it could take us some time as we don't have a compressor and end up costing you more then I would be happy to charge you, as they can be a faff. I did my own the other night after work and were a complete bitch. I'd recommend finding someone with a compressor as they could do it quicker and easier, thus cheaper.

No mention of "not being bothered"
No mention of truing the wheels and having to remove tyres to true the wheels.

We take great pride in our workshop and customer service, as single track members have mentioned in the past.

We're Solent Cycles for those that don't know us.

this is about to get interesting......

Oops... Thread fail...!

Kettle on, gets comfy... 😀

Fight! Fight! Fight!

Biscuit anyone?

[img] [/img]

Well its looking intresting now

I have to say that tubless tyres is a million miles from almost any other job. I'm excluding UST on UST rims.

To me it seems like a messy job for the enthusiast. I can really imagine not wanting to get envolved. Particulalry as the opening line is i can't get them to seat

I've always taken in a clean tyres less wheel for trueing

Yes, if the story was that the tubeless tyres weren't seating, then I'd have turned it away too - or at least quoted £60/hr for however long it takes. And I do have a compressor 🙂

I'm excluding UST on UST rims.

Even these are not guaranteed. I recently had a brand new ust tyre which wouldn't seat on a perfect ust rim - tunrned out the tyre had a minor defect on the bead (where it had been folded for packaging) and it just wouldn't work any which way.

Two sides to every story. Time to get comfy.

I had some Schwalbe tubeless tyres (actually for someone on here) and a couple of them leaked through the sidewalls. Very slowly, though.

Echo what the other LBS guys have said, I only do them for regulars now.
Had a ghetto tubeless tyre explode off the rim, all I can say I'm not keen on looking like an extra from a pron movie at work all day.

Fair play Topps.. I totally retract what I said in my first comment!

It's weird being on the providing end of the deal though.. What you're happy charging is not nearly what he might be expecting to pay. Many workshops are very generous, and don't make nearly enough profit, which is probably why many of the best LBS's struggle..

Okay, a question - I quite often get jobs which could be 5 minutes, could be two hours, depending on how they go. I'm thinking things like removing a stuck seatpost or BB. Or, indeed, getting a tubeless tyre to fit.

How would you feel about a quote which said £x per hour, for however long it takes, instead of a fixed amount?

as an indication of mark up, simple plastic water bottle <£1 to the shop, £7 to you sir..
Singlespeed MTB, trade price +vat (£300), retail £700
thats how much markup..

Really? Which drunk down the pub told you that? Did he also say Freddie Starr ate his hamster?

bikebouy - Member
I spent 1.5hrs trying to get 1 tyre to seat on Stans without any sucess
what
so
eva.
Right old PITA even using the right tape/valves/colour underwear/hair gel.
I got my LBS to do it in the end.
faffage wasted when you could be out riding.
POSTED 6 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

LOL

[b]Stevenmenmuir[/b]

Probably the same drunk that told him every LBS employee gets everything for themselves for less than the price of a biscuit.

😀

And kudos to Solent for coming out with that.

Well 2 sides to every story, I chose not to name & shame.

But at least you had the balls to answer the thread.

Shame I had to go elsewhere but hey, as I said earlier no bother, I got my request sorted.

There will be no handbags at dawn over this.

what happens when you soak an owl?

Tubeless tyres can (mostly) be a bitch. I do my own and have done friends (I have a compressor), but only with their sealant (and no guarentee).

My old LBS (I've moved) didn't have a compressor on purpose, too much hassle plus the noise and need to train staff.

How much training do you need for a compressor? Here's the on switch, don't shove it up your arse for kicks. Simple 🙂

Don't shove it up the customer's arse either!

Can you tell him you can't be arsed, and to shove it?

I'm sure that a compressor is fairly easy to use. But as its potentialy dangerous i wouldn't expect an employer to let people loose with it untrained.

Does that make me a paranoid and risk averse, i hope not. But there is a diffrence between hurting yourself in your onw garage at home and hurting yourself or some one else at work

Compressor has H&S requirements which impact on insurance. Regular receiver inspections and documented staff training is needed.

Yeah, if I was a bike shop I'd never bother with tubeless. It's a job that can take 5 minutes and work perfectly or not work after 3 hours faffing (wrong tyre / rim combo). Basically it's impossible to quote anyone a price for that.

Add the H&S requirement for safety glasses & ear defenders which adds to your overheads (in the event of a tyre blowing off the rim), which, if you've done your risk assessment properly, you'll have noted & trained your staff for (more costs & also training time to pay).

I bought a large compressor as my LBS wouldn't touch tubeless with a bargepole & I'd grown fed up of failed inflation attempts with CO2 cartridges. Power up compressor & wait for it to reach 8 bar, mount tyre, with very soapy water all round bead. Hold wheel with valve (with core removed) at top of wheel & press tyre hard down above valve (hand round tyre & rim as best you can). Inflate & tyre should hold air.

Conti's not too great (especially lightweight models), had issues with a few other brands too, but I now I run just Maxxis & have fitted various tyre models & widths with no issues.

Quotes - be honest & tell people up front. If the job may be a PITA, then if the customer is aware the job may not be straightforward, then it is their choice whether to continue. The reality is that if you say it could time x time & cost x amount & still not be completed, most buyers will accept this. I accept that there is no pleasing some people no matter what you do.

What's your problem. You couldn't be arsed to do it and neither could he. You wouldnt do it as its a ball ache and he he prob thought you have the gear so get some idea, its not difficult, wheels dont need to be perfect with discs, gotta learn some time and seating tubeless, well its a downside of tubeless tyres.

At leas the was honest with you!