[Closed] My first ( and maybe last ) Sportive .

Sounds like a good ride, and well done for completing. I know what you mean about the "buzz" if you're used to mtb events, but then roadies are miserable 😉

Give it a day or two and you'll be wanting to do another.

Couldnt bring nyslef to don tights

Shame.

Join a club. I just don't get the appeal of solo riding sportives.

"no buzz, no elation ... just grind away"?!?

I think you need to come to Snowdonia for some proper road riding 🙂

(And I know you secretly loved it ... you just can't face the shaved legs and Lycra!)

The thing about riding with a club is that you'll just stick with them. I turn up solo at Sportives and usually manage to find someone/a small group to ride with, often changing groups as the ride progresses. The other advantage of going solo is that you can, if you wish, go at YOUR pace - the one you feel most comfortable with at the time. If I'm feeling a bit energetic I'll actively chase down riders in front, leapfrogging them.

what can I say....honest write up, top marks for not blaming the event.

There are some miserable mtbers too! In the events I do friendliness is inversely proportional to skill and fitness. Others in the awkward squad make jokes and greet one another, the fit boys don't bother to acknowledge anybody but press on for the all important PB.

Top job for completing it mate... I did my first sportive last weekend ([url] http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/well-i-did-it-i-managed-a-100miler-sportive [/url]) and it was a right challenge! I possibly enjoyed it a bit more, but also noticed many of the same things you did...

Parked up and signed on no bother , the particular smell of embrocation in the air and the plethora of carbon bikes slightly dented my enthusiasm .

Haha. I was told that people would turn up on "all sorts" and that my very run on the mill Giant Defy would be quite normal. WRONG! 98% were on carbon (or Ti) bikes, many of them bloody expensive too! The total opposite of my local roadie club, where some of the old boys are still running around on frames from the 70's just with newer (90's) parts on!

Around the 25 mile mark a few 'chain gangs' of 5 or 6 riders went hurtling past . I thought i was making progress at around 15mph average, but these guys were probably averaging nearer to 20mph .

Don't worry about it. It's MUCH easier to maintain a higher speed in a big group than it is just 2 of you riding together.

Route split so my wheelsucker friend cleared off and the number of riders thinned out abit . Loads of people punctured , and there were a number riding ' in the gutter ' . I asked everyone if they were fine for spares. No one else seemed to offer any assistance .

Welcome to the way of the roadie! There are of course exceptions, but where most mountain bikers are warm friendly people and at events you'll even get a "you ok mate?" from some of the very top guys at 24hr events if you've punctured, Roadies are almost exclusively a miserable lot I've found! Even within their own groups, they don't much like talking to one another and they certainly don't like mountain bikers "giving it a go" like you and me...

How much climbing was there on your route anyway? Cos I found that's what killed me last weekend, much more than the milage.

Great review and I don't think anybody should underestimate how hard 76 miles is on the downs so well dOne, I wouldn't worry about the miserable gifts they exist in all events, they are probably just p1ssed off they aren't getting the extra 2mph they were promised from the new 7k bike they just purchased 😆

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If that doesnt work it was 3800ft in total .
Tbh the hills would have been ok on triple ring . A 30/40/50 would be ideal for my power output, I just cannot stand up and power up a hill for more than a few seconds .

A lot tougher riding distance solo, not just effort wise but there's more to keep your mind occupied in a group.

I find club riding far nicer than sportives...

Singletrackmind I was thinking of you when I was out this morning ( and I quietly avoided the temptations of the Chichester sportive)...I think you did have the right idea though, the trails this morning were basically just muddy slop..Still good fun though.

By the way, a slippery Duncton hill sounds like a good laugh 😯

Fair play op, don't take this badly but I suspect you lack the fitness to enjoy it tho I do wonder if you were cold during the ride?

Tbh the hills would have been ok on triple ring . A 30/40/50 would be ideal for my power output, I just cannot stand up and power up a hill for more than a few seconds .

It's weird isn't it, I said pretty much the same thing about last weekend's sportive I did (95 miles 6000ft of climbing) as like you I just don't have the strength to stand and grind for more than a few seconds and would prefer to sit and spin. Basically, I got called a poof!

By people I work with who should know better, cos I'll be taking them out on a Mountain Bike ride in the near future, and I intend to scare them somewhat on some steep technical descents!

Anyway, I find it weird that most road bikes come with a 34/50 front setup with say a 12-25 out back, and yet most mountain bikes come with 22/32/44 and 11-32. I know of tarmacced hills that are at least as steep as anything I'd ride off road, so why do road bikes not come with gearing to get you up the hills? I asked this question to a mate who's done a lot of road racing in the past and his answer was "ah yeah, you see anything too steep and you'd just get off and walk anyway" 😕

Kinda defeats the point to me! Strange thing is I'm happy with a 1x10 setup on my MTB (which still gives me about 330% gear range) but on my road bike my lowest gear of 34-27 just don't cut it for climbing those short sharp 25% hills when you're already tired. SRAM seem to at least be listening to customers with their APEX Groupset coming with a long cage mech, and up to a 32T cog on the back for an almost 1:1 bottom gear on a Compact front setup.

I know of tarmacced hills that are at least as steep as anything I'd ride off road, so why do road bikes not come with gearing to get you up the hills?

They pretty much do, I run 34/50 - 12/25 on my road bikes and 22/34 - 12/32 on my MTBs
Both are equally hard up the steepest climbs for me but I never have to walk tarmac climbs, I generally ride in the North Pennines and Lakes so I get to see plenty of ups and downs.
I'm not exactly young and fit any more either.

Roadies are almost exclusively a miserable lot I've found! Even within their own groups, they don't much like talking to one another

Another of my mates who became a roadie about 2 years back comments on this, although he's a miserable sod too so for him it's actually a pleasure. He enjoys the fact the banter isn't there etc, just ride and get on with it. I'd bet even now he only knows about 50% of the club riders names he rides with every week lol

to be fair though, a lot of the 'chat' with Mountain Biking happens when everyone stops to regroup after a hill or descent. With road bikes you tend to just keep riding so the same opportunities don't arise.

My experience is that with all these things it's down to who you ride with. Chatty people are chatty whatever they're sat on.

IME of group riding on the road the talking is incessant, you normally only chat to the guy next to you but that rotates so you'll end up chatting with most people.
If I'm riding solo, I can always tell if a group is coming up behind by the racket their making talking to each other. Roadies don't stop at the top and bottom of every little hill to regroup etc. but other than that, I've not noticed any difference in banter.
Maybe it's you?

I asked this question to a mate who's done a lot of road racing in the past and his answer was "ah yeah, you see anything too steep and you'd just get off and walk anyway"

Really? I've never known a decent road rider walk up anything. With the vastly lower rolling resistance of Tarmac/100 psi tyres 34-27 or whatever is a low enough gear for just about anyone with a modicum of fitness. Yes 53/42 chainsets and 11-21 blocks can make it tougher, but on an unladen road bike a compact and wide cassette should see you up virtually anything.

You also need to look for steeper off road climbs, I can find plenty steeper than 1:3, whilst even short sections of road at beyond 1:4 aren't that common.

I know of tarmacced hills that are at least as steep as anything I'd ride off road, so why do road bikes not come with gearing to get you up the hills?

Its simple, get a wide range cassette. There is a Tiagra one that has a 30 tooth sprocket and an Ultegra with a 27 or 28 tooth. Likely others as well out there. I ran the Tiagra when i first got into road biking at Chrimbo, to get my legs used to the higher gearing, and have now progressed to needing no more than a 25 tooth sprocket cassette...which gets me up anything the Dales and Lakes have to offer.

I dont where you lot ride either, but i find that a fair majority of roadies are actually friendly..even if its just a nod whilst crossing paths. There are some ignorant jerks of course..any like that seem to be professional miserablists who resent any newcomers to 'their' sport (IME), particular weirdo mtbers, or worse CX-ers. Of course there are plenty of those in mtbing as well....

no buzz, no elation

p.s. forgot to mention Audax as well. Well worth a look, if you want an alternative to Sportives.

Agree with jota, I find the guys in my club very chatty and friendly. The thing is wee rarely stop, if we do a bigger club ride, say 80+ then there might be an organised coffee stop. But the smaller rides 50 or so are non stop.

As for stopping on hill I don't know any proper road rider who would even want to admit to that. The only time I have ever stopped on a climb is when my chain has come off, and I am no racing snake.

Anyone who finds roadies miserable should look to themselves first!

1 proviso on the miserable aspect, when you are riding for 3 hrs with your heart rate in the 90% zone then chatting like a school girl with a new boyfriend isn't really on the agenda, when you are on the trails, you heart rate goes up and down much more than when road riding, makes it easier to chat when heart rate is lower.

Think I'll download the .gpx and give this a go in a few weeks....
Good write up - I reckon the 'bling factor' is even greater in road riding than it is in MTBing (says he, who only owns a gas pipe 46:17 fixie for the road!!)

DrP

Loving this thread.

39x25 is the lowest on one of my road bikes, I did LEJoG on 34x28 lowest with all my gear on board. Not had to get off the road bike in ages.

26x36 is my lowest on the MTB - mountain bike climbs are/can be way steeper than on the road aside for a couple of those classic Lake District or Exmoor climbs (Hardnott, Kirkstone, Wrynose and Porlock) which are pretty horrific!

I dont sign up to this roadie/mtb unfriendly/friendly thing at all.....its very often the same people. Have had some of my best social rides on long, fast road sportives, they can be very hard days on the bike, people understand they need to work off each other, physiaclly and mentally. Had one of my best days on the bike on this year's Dragon, joined up with a lad at 100km when we were both flagging a little, we had a chat and a laugh for the second half, picked up some others, both came in in good times and in good cheer.

Road riding is hard though, harder than mtb I reckon. Nowhere to hide is right.

Great write up, and a pretty accurate summing up of most sportives Ive ever ridden.

Got to agree with Druid, riding with a club gives you an unhelpful requirement to stay with them, bit of a problem if they are slow, and even worse if they are faster! I did the London to Southend ride a good few years back solo and found a good group of randoms with a good pace and we completed it in 3 hours, a few clubmates who took part took nearer 6.

Got to agree with Druid, riding with a club gives you an unhelpful requirement to stay with them, bit of a problem if they are slow, and even worse if they are faster!

Really? Most of the clubs round here have different groups, so that's not really a problem.

I dont sign up to this roadie/mtb unfriendly/friendly thing at all.....its very often the same people. Have had some of my best social rides on long, fast road sportives, they can be very hard days on the bike, people understand they need to work off each other, physiaclly and mentally. Had one of my best days on the bike on this year's Dragon, joined up with a lad at 100km when we were both flagging a little, we had a chat and a laugh for the second half, picked up some others, both came in in good times and in good cheer.

This sounds similar to my experience, too.

Well done for giving it a go.. I considered doing one for a charidee ride a while ago, but nah, I have enough of the road on my commute. Back on the alu road bike last week was a bit of a shock!

I reckon the 'bling factor' is even greater in road riding than it is in MTBing

It might be, but I reckon on average people spend ore on MTB's, it's just more consumable. I've got a DA group-set on my road bike that's as old as the XT cranks on the Pitch (8-10 years).

Road kit:
A chain every 6 months, cassette every 2 years when the shifting isn't perfect?

MTB kit:
A chain and cassette every year when the shifting gets so bad it barely works. To be comparable to the road bike it'd be a chain every month at least, and a cassette twice a year minimum.

Thus leaving more money spare for bling.

I don't sign up to this roadie/mtb unfriendly/friendly thing at all.

I've never had a problem with miserable roadies either. Sure you get the occasional one but you get them in every walk of life. For every rider who looks down their nose at you, there are many others who'd cheer you on.

Anyway, I find it weird that most road bikes come with a 34/50 front setup with say a 12-25 out back, and yet most mountain bikes come with 22/32/44 and 11-32. I know of tarmacced hills that are at least as steep as anything I'd ride off road, so why do road bikes not come with gearing to get you up the hills

There aren't any hills in the UK greater than about 1 in 3, and not many that are 1 in 4. There are tons of trails that are that kind of steepness. Even in the Downs, some of the trails are surely steeper than the roads. It's also way way easier to climb on smooth tarmac than it is to climb on mud or rocks off road.

It's also normal to go a little bit faster on a road bike, which makes the point where you go from spinning to 'powering up a hill' be a higher gear - possibly whilst you feel like you're 'powering up a hill' the average roadie would still be feeling like they were spinning in a low gear still. I know round here we have some steep hills (76 miles round here would be a lot hillier than that route profile above!), and if you look at a fit roadie round here, stick them in bottom gear and they would be happily sitting and spinning up pretty much any of the hills.

I have a triple, but mainly for the close ratios - 'compact' gearing on road bikes is just triple in disguise anyway. 30x23 is the lowest gear on my triple, which is roughly the same as a 34x25 on a compact. If I stick it in bottom gear I never have to stand up (except if I've got the kiddy bike trailer on the back!), and I'm not a very fit rider at all at the moment.

Nice one singletrackmind.

I signed up for it too as a first sportive with my wife. We'd gone for the epic, which was probably a mistake as we'd both been ill all week (excuses...!). We rolled around the course then short-cutted back when we felt too rough for much more - about 70miles all in.

Still nice day out and i'll definitely do another and go in fit and well and try and set a good time.

In general, most folk at our pace seemed friendly i thought. One incident with a range rover who forced my wife off into a ditch (no bombers/weeing in shoes retailiation unfortunately) spoilt the day slightly, but otherwise a good day out.

I know of tarmacced hills that are at least as steep as anything I'd ride off road,

Most European climbs are heavily switchbacked whereas in the UK it's more common to go straight up the hill. eg stats for the Col de Tourmalet are:

Average grade: 7.4 %
Length: 19 km
Height start: 711 m
Height top: 2115 m
Elevation: 1404 m
Maximum: 10.2 %

It's rare in Europe to find really steep gradients. However, mainly you just need to MTFU.

42:28 is a pretty high (lowest) gear for a road bike, especially if you are unfit.

I do wonder whether the OP didn't enjoy it because he went into it with all the wrong attitude:

Well , it was busy . Very busy in fact

That's the whole point of a sportive - lots of people, so you should be able to find a group going at your pace to ride with, which makes it a lot easier.

Couldnt bring nyslef to don tights so wore my Humvees

So you wore non-optimal clothing which slowed you down because you have a fashion problem?

Paired up with ( wheelsucker ) 102 mile rider who seemed to be on the same pace as me

He was a wheelsucker because he wanted to sit on your wheel to save his energy? Did you try to get him to come through to give you a rest by pulling over, or did you speed up every time he tried to come past? I certainly get the impression you spent all the time working by yourself rather than finding a group to help you.

Oh and on the gearing thing, I've ridden up 25% climbs on the road using 34/25, though when less fit have had to walk up a climb near the end of a sportive using that gearing. As mentioned above, 42/28 really isn't that low.

There ^ that post explains why I'll never do one 😛

It's rare in Europe to find really steep gradients.

Even ignoring the fact that the UK is part of Europe, you're still wrong. There are climbs with nasty bits all over the place - from the Mur de Huy in the north to Angliru in the south...

They pretty much do, I run 34/50 - 12/25 on my road bikes and 22/34 - 12/32 on my MTBs
Both are equally hard up the steepest climbs for me but I never have to walk tarmac climbs

You have a bottom gear on your Road bike that is almost exactly twice as hard a ratio as on your MTB, yet you say they're "equally hard" 😕

Bottom gear on my MTB is 32/36 and bottom gear on my road bike is 34/27, much closer together than your bikes, yet I know that the slightly lower gearing on my MTB feels MUCH easier to ride up a hill! And a 26" wheel with a 2.25" tyre has almost the same rolling radius as a 700c with 25c tyre so wheel size is negligible.

Really? I've never known a decent road rider walk up anything.

Fair enough, there's decent and decent though, and suspect the guys you know are probably faster/fitter than the guys I know!

With the vastly lower rolling resistance of Tarmac/100 psi tyres 34-27 or whatever is a low enough gear for just about anyone with a modicum of fitness.

Below 20mph Aero wheels are of no benefit. Below about 10mph, it doesn't really matter if you're riding on narrow slicks or large knobbly tyres, the coefficient of friction between the tyre and the road is a tiny amount of the force slowing the bike down compared to the riders weight acting against the slope.

You also need to look for steeper off road climbs, I can find plenty steeper than 1:3, whilst even short sections of road at beyond 1:4 aren't that common.

I know of one locally that's about a 1:3 and yes, when I'm fresh, I can get up it on a 32:36 bottom gear. Wouldn't want to do it after 30 miles already on the bike to be fair, but most people I know that ride can't do it at all even with a 22/32 or lower bottom gear! But I also know of a few road climbs locally that are just as steep. Agreed, most places in the UK aren't as steep as the Malverns are in places.

Its simple, get a wide range cassette. There is a Tiagra one that has a 30 tooth sprocket and an Ultegra with a 27 or 28 tooth.

I'm on 9spd sadly, not 10. Otherwise would have just bought the 12-30 Tiagra cassette by now. As it is, was on a 12-25 HG50 but have swapped it for a 12-27 HG50 which has helped a small amount, but not significantly for the steeper stuff. And don't get me wrong here, I'm fine on steady climbs, it's just the short sharp buggers!

26x36 is my lowest on the MTB - mountain bike climbs are/can be way steeper than on the road

That's my point, I'd never need that low a gear offroad any more I don't reckon (unless my legs were shot!), but I know of a lot of steep road climbs, most of them pretty much as steep as the steepest off road climbs I know.

Oh and on the gearing thing, I've ridden up 25% climbs on the road using 34/25, though when less fit have had to walk up a climb near the end of a sportive using that gearing.

That's the thing. Though it's less to do with aerobic fitness, more to do with muscle strength/conditioning. I don't think I was out of breath once on the 95 mile sportive I did last weekend, but I certainly felt the leg burn after about 60 miles.

sportives can be hit or miss at the moment, some are almost races, others are like family outings. the early/late season ones do tend to be a bit more "focused" compared to the charity ones in the summer. Where there is a charity element to it, the whippets seem to be put off and its a more leisurely sort of crowd.

Aim for one of the lower key events, there's plenty out there that run with 200-400 riders which is a reasonable number to more or less guarantee some decent food but not so many that the roads are clogged with numpties who think they're racing or having to queue for hours at sign on or for toilets.

As for the hill climbing, that comes with practice and fitness.

And no-one will look twice at you for wearing tights. They might look twice at you for having baggy shorts flapping around your legs and looking even more foolish than tights would look though...

Even ignoring the fact that the UK is part of Europe, you're still wrong. There are climbs with nasty bits all over the place - from the Mur de Huy in the north to Angliru in the south...

I've looked at the Mur de Huy and that's quite enough for me for now. The Col du Jandri near Alpe d'Huez doesn't make me feel any better either (27km of average 10% gradient).

Agreed, most places in the UK aren't as steep as the Malverns are in places

But then you do kind of have to search out road climbs which are really steep - unless you're talking about the Old Wyche Road (which I didn't think was actually that steep anyway), I'm not sure where it is you're talking about which is that steep. I generally ride with a 34/23 as my bottom gear around here, and don't shy away from riding any of the normal climbs like Little Malvern, Ankerdine etc.

Meanwhile the bottom gear on my MTB is 22/32, and there are plenty of climbs on the Malverns you need that for - all normal climbs which you'd take in as part of a route without having to search them out. For example the climb up the big valley near St Anns Well, the climb from the reservoir near the Wyche road up to Goldmine and numerous others. I'd be amazed if you can get up those with 32/36, so the bottom gear on your MTB isn't low enough for the off-road riding around here.

You have a bottom gear on your Road bike that is almost exactly twice as hard a ratio as on your MTB, yet you say they're "equally hard"

Yes, when I'm at my limit, the gearing is irrelevant

It's only twice as hard if the equipment and road surface etc. was identical, which they're clearly not.

Well I think you chose a good Sportif to start with. That area of the South Downs is a lovely place to ride with some great single lane roads with climbs and descents combined with some long rolling pace making tarmac, well worth checking out.
It’s not unusual to find that you’re riding on your own in big groups or indeed being wheelsucked, but that’s part of Sportifs I’m afraid. Some are super friendly and some are really stand offish. Can’t say the Wiggle ones are any different to others I’ve done, but can see your point. It’s a shame you couldn’t find a like minded buddy to go along with. I’ve entered many Sportifs and has to be said made some good riding buddies out of them. But there are a few I’ve done that I’d never go back to.

At least you did it, at least you got out to ride and enjoy the environment, that alone needs a big thumbs up.

Even ignoring the fact that the UK is part of Europe, you're still wrong. There are climbs with nasty bits all over the place - from the Mur de Huy in the north to Angliru in the south...

Ok - I give you *mainland* Europe.

However,
- Mur de Huy - Average grade of 9.3% and some sections around 17% (up to 26% in one bend)
- Hardknott pass supposedly hits 33%

I'm not saying there are no steep sections across the water but I'd maintain that most of the big 'tour' ascents are long and tough but not as out and out steep as you'd expect whereas in the UK we have some very nasty short, sharp, climbs.

Well I didnt really mean to start any rows , just a write up of an event.
I have done a few xc races and mtb marathons , each with around 300 - 400 riders . I think there may have been 1000 at the Wiggle ride. It was set up accordingly with ample parking and staffing levels.

To empathise I AM NOT A ROADIE . I have never had someone half wheeling me before and found it off putting .

I pretty much rode the whole thing alone. I would catch riders , try and chat or simply say 'hi , hows it going ?' , get blanked then push on. Maybe it was my Humvees, which arent that baggy actually.

And my bike is only 2 x 8 so without a full groupset change Im stuck with what I have got.

Plus if I put in my OP 'Im not fit or fast ' , well done for then saying back to me ' Oh you are simply not fit or fast enough to enjoy it' . Judging by the guys blowing up on the hill up to the Goodwood Grandstands , they really werent going to enjoy it in any way shape or form ( 2 miles in )

Thanks BikeBouy , sensible and concise reply.

My first sportive was an awful affair that clouded my opinion of them altogether. Crashes, poor riding and stupid underhand copetition.

Then I did a winter one. there was a good turn out even though it was pee'ing down. The riding was good and the pace was high. I had to do a double take and up the pace. Then we hit a hill and four of us just got over the top and broke away. Although we'd never met we had a great ride working together for thirty miles, then they pulled off at the halfway stop.
I saw just three riders after that. One young guy I rode with for a bit and two Putney Rowing Club riders that went flying past in tandem.
I enjoyed it enough, but nowhere near as good as an RT.

I think the problem, if it is a problem, with sportives is that the format has been imported from Europe. In Europe, very few people would ride a sportive without an amount of practice/training in riding with others.
In the UK, 10 or 15 years ago, cycling on the road was very much club based, so everyone would be aware of the basic concepts and the way to ride.
I think it's also the case that the roadie/mountain biker thing is a peculiarly UK thing; the riders I know from that foreign all ride anything and everything and don't define themselves in one way or another.

Cycling in the UK has boomed, and there are a correspondingly large number of cyclists who haven't had the benefit of riding in a controlled way with other, more experienced cyclists. All of these things combine to make large scale events something of a lottery if you go alone. I've done a Manchester to Blackpool ride a few years ago that was bloody carnage from the first mile; I just got on with it and ignored anyone who couldn't keep up largely for safety reasons.

Riding on the road can be fun, it can also be tedious and frustrating.

Anyway , the times are online .

I reckon im about 1/3 down the list at 5hr18.

So maybe not so slow and unfit after all.

I got a 'silver' classification , although I dont know what this means.

Some poor souls were out for 8+hrs 😯

Wish I was as slow & unfit as you 😉
But you really had to [i]walk[/i] up a hill? Oh the shame!

PS. After next week, I vow to get out more.

I got a 'silver' classification , although I dont know what this means.

It means you're not as fast as Gold and not as slow as Bronze. 😉

Seriously though, well done on getting round and it's a good honest appraisal. The Wiggle events are amongst the best organised in the UK. As others have mentioned though, the group that you're with can make or break the day - maybe you just got unlucky this time round.

I know of one locally that's about a 1:3 and yes, when I'm fresh, I can get up it on a 32:36 bottom gear. Wouldn't want to do it after 30 miles already on the bike to be fair, but most people I know that ride can't do it at all even with a 22/32 or lower bottom gear! But I also know of a few road climbs locally that are just as steep. Agreed, most places in the UK aren't as steep as the Malverns are in places.

? can't think of any really stupid steep climbs around Malvern, certainly not at the level of the stupid climbs in the Cotswolds, Bushcombe Lane or some of the Stroud Valleys.

More to the point, use the winter to get stronger, then you can spin the gears you have up climbs.

Dez .- You too can walk up the hill of shame , its only 5 miles from your house.
I nearly crashed trying to stop on a load of wet leaves just up the road from 'The Hampshire Hog' and almost shot across the A3 slip road.
Great decent though off the side of Butser.

? can't think of any really stupid steep climbs around Malvern

Nope - me neither, and that is where I live, hence my comments above - I mention 2 of the more obvious very steep road climbs. I wondered about one of the lanes in West Malvern, not somewhere I generally ride, but nothing there merits more than a single arrow on the OS map. I don't know about the ones you mention, but there's nothing I've found here as steep as the climbs I've done north of Worcester - eg Wynniattes Way at Abberley. Still waiting for mboy to get back to me on where exactly this killer climb is.

Still waiting for mboy to get back to me on where exactly this killer climb is.

REALLY? Some of us have got, dare I say it, more interesting stuff to be doing! Like I dunno, cooking a nice Cottage Pie, going for a brief bike ride, going cicuit training, eating said cottage pie etc... 😛

I wondered about one of the lanes in West Malvern, not somewhere I generally ride

Forgetting exactly which one it is, but it's steeper than 1:4 for the last few hundred yards for sure. Certainly steep enough anyway.

There's more short sharp climbs of that ilk littered through Worcestershire as you'll proabably know, and then of course Ankerdine though not [i]that[/i] steep at a mere 17% average (25% in places) but goes on for well over 1km.

I'm crap with the trail names on the Malverns, but to be fair the only climb I've ever even struggled with (and more to do with grip than the gearing) offroad on my 32:36 gear on my hardtail, is the climb back up to the Reservoir below British Camp. Even the steepest peak is just a case of body position and making sure you're not spinning the back tyre up, to get up it, fitness allowing of course.

It's only twice as hard if the equipment and road surface etc. was identical, which they're clearly not.

Friction due to the surface and the tyres is only a very small factor in what controls your rate of progress when hills are concerned, due mainly to the large forces acting upon you by gravity! So it matters little whether you're on a skinny tyred road bike, or a fat tyred MTB in relative terms, when it comes to going up very steep hills.

singletrackmind - Member

I got a 'silver' classification , although I dont know what this means.

It means that after they removed all the dopers, you won the Tour de France.

I'm with crikey on this one, once a sportive reaches a certain size,the dynamic seems to change , one of borderline anarchy, which in road riding is a pain for those who have discipline and understanding. Its why i find so called cycle paths a problem--some people on them seem to have no clue about 'craft'.

Friction due to the surface and the tyres is only a very small factor in what controls your rate of progress when hills are concerned, due mainly to the large forces acting upon you by gravity! So it matters little whether you're on a skinny tyred road bike, or a fat tyred MTB in relative terms, when it comes to going up very steep hills.

Yeah, you're right
All these years and it's just been in my head, the fact that one's on tarmac and the other off-road is totally irrelevant 🙄

Now remind us again just how old you are and how long you've been road riding

Still waiting for mboy to get back to me on where exactly this killer climb is.

All these years and it's just been in my head, the fact that one's on tarmac and the other off-road is totally irrelevant

There has been a lot of research into the effects of aero, friction, weight and other effects on bikes and their riders in the past, you may be keen to know...

Funnily enough, aerodynamic drag and mechanical friction (tyres on the road, drivetrain etc.) are important factors in wattage required to maintain a certain speed on the flat. The rider and bike's combined weight will have little bearing on the power input required to maintain a speed, other than affecting friction slightly.

Also funnily enough, when it comes to climbing or descending a slope, due to gravity acting upon the rider and the bike as a force of the cosine of the gradient, aerodynamic drag and mechanical friction have much less of a bearing on the power input required to maintain a certain speed whilst either ascending or descending a slope. The frictional losses due to being offroad on knobbly tyres over being on road on narrow slicks, will be marginal compared to the extra forces required due to gravity!

Capiche?

Now remind us again just how old you are and how long you've been road riding

I'm 32, I've dipped in and out a couple of times in the last 10 years, but only done any real milage in the last 6 months or so... But so what? I've been riding mountain bikes pretty regularly for the last 17 years. A bike is just a bike. Perhaps it's the fact I'm looking at road riding without a whole host of hang ups a lot of people who've been doing it for a long time have, that I question what other people may not.

I'm still waiting to see his calculations for building an F1 engine

What do you want to know exactly?

Bore to Stroke ratio?
Cam lobe profiles?
Valve sizes?
Piston speeds?
Valve overlap?

Unless you actually design the things yourself, I'd bet I know a fair bit more about engine design, how they work, and how to get performance out of them than you might have imagined or indeed know yourself.

The problem is, on an internet forum, it's the man who shouts the loudest that everyone listens to. In the real world, you can't argue with Science or Facts!

😉

@aracer,

The top one of the three is Bushcombe Lane, which for reference touches 1:3 at the steepest point. The others are a fair bit easier but are still 1:4ish

View Larger Map 

and for a stroud climb, which to add to the fun tends to be damp and muddy, and 1:4

View Larger Map 

There has been a lot of research into the effects of aero, friction, weight and other effects on bikes and their riders in the past, you may be keen to know...

But we're talking about gearing needed off road Vs gearing needed on tarmac, I don't ride my road bikes off road and I don't try to ride my MTBs on tarmac
You can't compare the gearing of 2 bikes if you have one on tarmac and the other on a lose surface. Road bikes have higher gearing because you can get away with it on tarmac.

A couple of weeks ago you were asking how to ride a sportive ride, suddenly you're an expert and telling everyone they have their gearing wrong because it's too hard for you

What do you want to know exactly?

Exactly, you were going to let us in on your calculations that McLaren could use to convert their road car engine into a 2014 spec F1 engine

 

[url= http://app.strava.com/segments/723949 ]this ankerdine hill?[/url]

For comparison some steep climbs which i recommend you try, not too far from Malvern after all.

[url= http://app.strava.com/segments/745156 ]Bushcombe Lane[/url]

[url= http://app.strava.com/segments/1723334 ]Knapp Lane[/url]

and for some more stupidity

[url= http://app.strava.com/segments/2419986 ]Porlock hill[/url]

Exactly, you were going to let us in on your calculations that McLaren could use to convert their road car engine into a 2014 spec F1 engine

I said it wouldn't be difficult to base the engine on their current road car engine, in the same way the Metro 6R4 (later Jag XJR11) engine was loosely based on the Rover V8. The pistons are roughly the size you'd want for a 1.6L V6, the layout is nice and compact. Obviously very few components would end up being shared, but my point was that it wouldn't be too hard to develop from parts already existing in their workshops. BMW did it in the 1980's when they took production 2L 4 cylinder blocks and used them for a 1.5L turbo engine in F1. Cosworth created a fire breathing 3cyl engine for Aprilla in MotoGP by taking 3 cylinders from their current (at the time) F1 engine and essentially making an engine from the parts bin. It's not unusual for engineers to make use of existing products for new designs, regardless of their current use, for small scale high performance applications, especially when it will save a lot of money in R&D!

You can't compare the gearing of 2 bikes if you have one on tarmac and the other on a lose surface.

I run treaded tyres on my MTB for grip. Granted, there's still some loss of traction compared to a slick on a road, but actually, for the same reason you don't drive everywhere in first gear in the snow (you short shift), you're better off getting out of the saddle and pushing a harder gear on an MTB more often than sitting and spinning I'd say. Something I just can't seem to manage as much on a road bike, that's all!

mrmo, thinking back, I remember climbing up Bushcombe as a teenager, on my old Marin, in about 1996. Well, I say climbing, but definitely had to walk the very steepest parts back then even! It's a bugger and for sure steeper than anything over this way, but there's plenty of hills steep enough to make use of lower gearing for a lot of people. If not so much when you're totally fresh, more so when you've say already covered 50 miles or so.