[Closed] MTB XC RACE - HAIGH HALL - FEB 28

Great news, should be able to make this one.

🙂

Looks like different organisers to last years 'Hurt at the Haigh' I hope its as good

anyone entered?

What tyres for Haigh Hall?

😉

looks like the local leisure and cultural trust....fellow who is organising is a cyclo cross rider and organised a few cyclo cross races

anyone entered?

I'm gonna enter today, have you signed up yet?

What tyres for Haigh Hall?

I'd go mud tyres if I had any. But I haven't.

anyone entered?

I'm in. Hopefully the uphills will be a little more rideable than a cx race and the downhills a little more interesting.

+1 on the mud tyres.

Looks like different organisers to last years 'Hurt at the Haigh' I hope its as good

the guy who organised last year said on their twitter feed recently that he was refused permission to repeat as the council had decided to run their own race at the venue this year instead, but i think he was/is involved in the course planning in some capacity.

Hi there
I've just entered this race based on the above recommendations, but I'm wondering if it will be 'singlespeedable' in terms of climbs? Anyone ridden around that area have any idea?
Cheers
Ben

bump

Are entries on the day likely does anyone know?
I've entered a major bevvying event the day before, so don't want to commit to an entry in advance.

I've entered a major bevvying event

Good to see I'm not the only one. Liquid carb loading 🙂

I'm going - I shall be performing my usual pre-race kit selection - the mountain bike, wear stuff that I don't mind getting muddy.

never been there with a bike let alone raced there so haven't got a scooby about the conditions, there is some hilly bits but it's not on the side of a mountain so I would have thought SS able... I'll be on a bike with gears

Entry on the day is possible, I think its a couple of quid more.

Its being organised by one of the guys on our club (Horwich) as part of his day job for Wigan council/trust. It should be a good course, sounds like a good mix of terrain talking to him and sounds like there's plenty of space for the field to spread out - ss might be possible as its not mega hilly like edhornby says but I don't know about any short steep sections.

Come along to watch or ride and help prove that this sort of thing is sustainable and worth doing again 🙂

I've entered this and looking forward to it. What is the course likely to be like? I can't imagine that it will be rocky.

Having not done an XC race in over 10 years, what is the score with the rules for bikes? It was once simple: 26".

As 29ers and 650b(?) are common, you can presumably use those, but what about flat-barred "cyclocross" bikes, which are, to all intents and purposes, rigid 29ers? -is it up to the discretion of the organiser, like the 3 Peaks CX?

[i]I've just entered this race based on the above recommendations, but I'm wondering if it will be 'singlespeedable' in terms of climbs? Anyone ridden around that area have any idea?[/i]

Me, last year.
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/12722549554_7e2fe0fff9_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/12722549554_7e2fe0fff9_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/kofoJE ]IMG_7180[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/91695604@N05/ ]martin holden photography[/url], on Flickr

That's 46/16, fixed.

The 46 tooth cog is on the front by the way. I actually never thought I'd need to say that. What is happening to the world?

The reality is, it's a bog in places, there's a couple of short, sharp climbs, there's some singletrack.

I'm pretty sure its no cross bikes this year.

If it is under BC MTB XC rules any bike mechanically sound with adequate brakes (both wheels) and has bar end plugs is legal

Cheers. I've asked the organiser (who seems like a very reasonable chap) for some clarification.

I was also told no cross bikes, would be interested to know if they are allowed. Cross bikes seemed faster last year.

I'll be showing up, doing a lap (assuming I don't pass out during), then seeing if I'd be first to drop out or not. Unfit is definitely my current state.

But my first 'race' so should be a laugh.

The organiser does seem helpful and I am not trying to be awkward at all.

Apparently, in order for the race to qualify for the XC racing series, it is for "mountain bikes", but there appears to be no clear definition of what that means, even from British Cycling.

Rigid 29ers etc. are allowed, but "cyclocross bikes" are not.

I'm still unsure whether I can ride my hack bike:

A 700c(or "29er")-wheeled, rigid bike with its mountain bike handlebar, v-brakes and ~1.5" off-road tyres. A bike which I use on all kinds of terrain and I believe will be more suited to Haigh Hall than my 26" bikes.

If not, it does seem ever so slightly arbitrary...

I'm genuinely not sure where the line is drawn between 29ers and cyclocross bikes, other than in the [b]name[/b] on the side of the down-tube.

Aristotle - Member

Cheers. I've asked the organiser (who seems like a very reasonable chap) for some clarification

The issue is that at some places it's hard to make a course that discourages CX bikes. The BC rule book is clear (you could ride it on a moulton). Some of the handlebar shapes that are round for MTB's also blur the issue.

Apparently, in order for the race to qualify for the XC racing series, it is for "mountain bikes", but there appears to be no clear definition of what that means, even from British Cycling

I organised 20+ XC races and no-one mentioned that to me, I was lucky that no-one was daft enough to try a CX on my courses

as stated above he should refer it to the Commissaire (if he has one nominated), I'll ask at the BC Commissaires Conference on Saturday in regard to BC rules (not any criteria imposed by an organiser)
The organiser would be wise to discuss with the BC Commissaire first to save chats with disgruntled riders

I'm not disgruntled, just genuinely confused.

I don't blame the organiser, he normally arranges cyclocross races, but is running this race under different rules.

The name on the frame is the only thing to objectively distinguish a lightweight XC 29er from a "cyclocross" bike -What about a frame with no name?

I can just imagine a "cycling official from headquarters" in a blazer turning up and rejecting some bikes for subjective reasons.

The name on the frame is the only thing to objectively distinguish a lightweight XC 29er from a "cyclocross" bike -What about a frame with no name?

Seriously?

Ok, so they can be different in some details and subjectively one could be set up better than the other for some things, but who declares what the [b]objective[/b] definition of a "29er" or a "cyclocross" frame is?

Is a 29er with a cross-bike like geometry a cyclocross bike or a 29er? Is a cyclocross bike with mtb-like geometry an mtb?

The points of rider contact could be in exactly the same positions.

Is it about aesthetics?

Drop bars and skinny tyres innit?

I'd race there on one if I still had one, it's gonna be a slopfest.

I'd say it was primarily the drop bars that differentiates between the two.

You'll know if you're trying to push the boundaries of whats reasonable - a cyclocross bike with flat bars say. But I'd imagine that would be pretty short reach and not really that nice to ride?

But why would you want to? Its a mountain bike race. Turn up on your mountain bike and ride. If you're not at the front, are you that bothered that you could have got 74th place instead of 79th place because you could have been on a cross bike with flat bars?!

I bet the mountain bikers racing at World Cup level don't debate whether they could get away with a cross bike with flat bars 🙄

The feedback was that it was surprisingly firm underfoot, and the course will be altered sligtly if it is sloppy.

Aristotle,what are the biggest tyre's you can fit on your bike? Sounds like a hybrid to me. It's a MTB race- simple.

UCI rules about MTB events:
[i]During MTB races no traditional road handlebars may be used.
bis The handlebars extensions of a triathlon or time trial type are forbidden, but traditional
barends are authorized.[/i]

British Cycling rules about MTB events:
[i]Bicycles used in competition must be capable of safely
and efficiently completing the task and must, as a
minimum, be mechanically sound, have efficient
brakes on all wheels and all reasonable steps must be
taken to ensure the safety of the rider and others. As
part of the latter, bar plugs are compulsory.
[/i]

Unless the BC rules are out of date (not likely) then cyclocross bikes are allowed. This is my understanding as an event organiser as well. If someone turned up to of of our MTB XC races (BC registered) I'd allow them to race on a CX bike - unless it was UCI registered (only National Series events are).

Right, this course is not quicker on a cross bike, look at last years results, how many cross bikes in the top ten, eeeeerrrrrrrrrrrr none.

I helped mark out the course last year and raced last year, very similar course to this year, I am nothing to do with organising it this year

this course is not quicker on a cross bike

But what about a hybrid, eh?

Right, I'm not trying to win, cheat or push the limits!

As there are no clear definitions of the types of bikes (or possibly any real need for definitions), it does seem fairly arbitrary.

I'm not intending to buy a 29er XC machine for my first race in years. My 26" bikes have fairly fat tubeless tyres which may not be ideal for a muddy Haigh Hall park and riding my "hybrid" bike might make sense.

But what about a hybrid, eh?

believe it or not a very determined lady rode a Brownbacks race on a £150 decathlon hybrid, to contrast there was a bloke on a Ibis Mojo riding the same course at the same time

both seemed to have fun, which after all is what it is all about 😀

both were legal then and still are, the organiser may choose to add his own rules (it is his event after all). BC need to stick to their published rules which haven't changed in years on this

the organiser needs to talk to his Commissaire, it it's a BC rule then they will be able to quote the relevant part of the rulebook, if it's the organisers rule then so be it

If the organisers say it's a mtb race open to mtb's only thats what it is. Most people aren't stupid and don't need BC to tell them what a a mtb is, or maybe not. 😕

If the organisers say it's a mtb race open to mtb's only thats what it is. Most people aren't stupid and don't need BC to tell them what a a mtb is, or maybe not

fine, but it's the organisers decision, not a rule imposed by BC. The Commissaire wouldn't enforce it, the organiser would

the organiser could have a rule that the bikes all needed to be from a single manufacturer, or be pink in colour, or ridden in fancy dress

If the race is run under BC regs (which this is?) then I don't think the organiser can impose their own rules, they need to stick to BC rules.

Otherwise I could decide that only pink bikes with yellow spots and 1:1 gear ratio are allowed to race.

Its a mountain bike race, I don't get why its so hard to understand 🙄 😉

If the race is run under BC regs (which this is?) then I don't think the organiser can impose their own rules, they need to stick to BC rules.

Otherwise I could decide that only pink bikes with yellow spots and 1:1 gear ratio are allowed to race

as far as I am aware there is some latitude for the organiser. This has to be reasonable and equitable

(for example 24 hour races where you have to dismount for a short distance for the timing chips, the course is supposed to be 100% rideable but the organiser requires riders walk a section)

But now you are not talking about strictly MTB XCO races - and probably not BC regs at all.

It's often said the MTB is the new golf. All this talk of rule books and such-like is making me think this is true 🙂 How long before we have separate trails for 'ladies' and ban them from the bar?

Tell me where it says I can't ride a Cnoc 16 in the mtb XCO rules

The point is that the rules are sensible, somebody is making up something that isn't in the rules

Having read the British Cycling rules for races, I couldn't find anything to define what was or wasn't a mountain bike for the purposes of an XC race either.

The subject seems oddly 'political' at times, a bit like the 3 Peaks Cyclocross being definitely [b]not[/b] a 'Mountain bike' race -due to historical landowner concerns(?) about mountain bikes, although that is run under different rules to XCO.

In the case of an XC race, frame geometry and top tube angles don't really seem that important in the grand scheme of things, especially as they are not defined anywhere -It's not as if they offer an unfair advantage, disadvantage or safety concern either. If the course is relatively technical, then there probably is no advantage.

In this case, it looks as if I'll be trying to spin fast on my chunky hardtail with its fat tyres and hoping that it isn't too muddy.

I'm sure it will be fun anyway.

Not sure if this is of importance, but just been up to Haigh Hall with my brother, who has done Hurt at the Haigh last year I believe, so we could get a possible taster for the course for weekend. On one part that would be a nice speedy slight 'downhill' section, someone had put a lot of big branches all across the trail at various points all the way down.

Either the dog walkers union have been out, or could it be the organisers keeping it as unused as possible before weekend?

I think it's a different course to last year

Anyone know what time the main / senior race starts, or even general timings on the day?

Info from BC re timings:

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/125721/Haigh-Woodland-XCO#entry

It is at the organisers’ discretion. So whatever they say goes, no matter how much you gnash and wail. If you don’t like it organise a race yourself.

From my own experience the first HTN (12 hour) was MTB only and we got some right whinging when we said no to cross bikes.

After that we made it open to any bike with two wheels* and I think that is what “made” the event as we got all sorts of contraptions showing up.

Interestingly, at HTN2 (8 hour re-mix) the cross bikes suffered badly as the race time went on. Never mind eh 😉

*Unicycles were still banned right through to the end. Can’t be doing with all the associated beards, silly jester style hats and propensity to start juggling. Gits.

Hi all does anyone know what to do on the day, as in registration etc I signed up in January and have had no correspondence at all apart from my receipt.
Thought I might have had an e mail or letter telling me when and where to register, pick up numbers etc.
And I was up there on Sunday was really muddy in places, I also spotted trees across paths, this is definitely common place in haigh but half the time makes it more interesting as you can jump the logs.

I've just got back.

Well, it was a quagmire for the most part. I quite liked the technical parts, many of which saw a lot of people walking them.

I put in a lot of effort and was passing people on the downhills, but my tyres were initially all over the place and would then hardly turn when the whole bike was clogged with mud. Pushing the bike was difficult too. I was heaving hard on the bars and pedals then my chain snapped on lap 3.

Whilst a chain device and 2.5" tyres are good for my more usual gritstone riding, there isn't enough mud clearance or grip for a muddy park.

I think I'm going to build up an XC machine, although as a reintroduction to XC, I'm not convinced that I enjoyed it as much a good trail ride. I'll give it another go, though.

Blimey that was tough going, good course and really challenging in the conditions. It rode better than I expected because the volume of traffic cleared a path through the mud most of the way (with a few horrible exceptions).

Never before have I done an XC race and wished for less singletrack (so that I might get the chance to neck a gel).

Paced it just about right, felt strong in the last 30 mins but ruined by the end. Look forward to seeing the results.

Well done WLCT.

🙂

bugger, completely forgot it was on, I was gonna come and cheer you all on 😕

I managed 3 laps was really tough in places, the grass up to the hall was soul destroying, did really enjoy though will defo be doing another.

Hope they do another one in the summer, believe it or not it's really good round there in the dry.

That was ****in grim, 5 laps of pain.

Ye, it was a tough slog, but a good turnout, hopfully it will become a regular event.

Thanks to all involved.

Bolt

As I suggested earlier, narrow spiky mud tyres would have made a massive difference, especially if your frame has big clearances.

I'm a bit disappointed that I was stopped by a mechanical though. I was hoping for 5 laps at the start.

Is that course typical of modern XC? I do much prefer rocky, technical terrain to quagmire.

That was pretty tough - hard yards. Felt like there wasn't 10 yards of dry singletrack on the entire course. That last bit back to the start was bollox - throwing the coal down to go 4 mph.
Did seem to ride better as time went on - did 4 laps here and almost enjoyed the fourth one.

Tyres are not a massive issue TBH at our level,people get to worked up about them and obsessive, its about technique a lot and how you move your weight around and tyre pressure. My mate did it on Conti mud king tyres and I did it on Bonti's XR2 which are a summer tyre, we both struggled massivly with traction and clogging but I was well in front at the end.

kingkongsfinger - Member

Tyres are not a massive issue TBH at our level,people get to worked up about them and obsessive, its about technique a lot and how you move your weight around and tyre pressure. My mate did it on Conti mud king tyres and I did it on Bonti's XR2 which are a summer tyre, we both struggled massivly with traction and clogging but I was well in front at the end.

It does make a difference, if your wheels won't go round because of the clogging! 2.5" tyres left almost no gap for the mud. -my problem, of course. I will be sourcing some XC tyres and fitting them to my old Hardtail.

As I pointed out earlier, though, my transmission and chain device was also clogged, which probably led to the chain lunching itself -and my monster powerrrr

With hindsight, I should have taken the stinger off.

Or I should have ridden my CX bike, like the other people that did!

I thought we'd established that you have a hybrid and not a cx bike?

😉

Does anyone know where results will be posted?

Ah yes, but I was requested not to ride my hybrid. In the events, there wasn't any obvious scrutineering anyway!

I for one didn't see any cross bikes..1st outing on a pair of maxxis beavers and believe me i wouldn't of even started with the 2.3 purgatory's i took off. Not raced for a long time and that was a tough one too start up again. You don't get many xc course's like that(thank ****!) Felt sorry for all the clogged up full sussers. 1x10 hardtail here and that was bad enough.

I was part of the team who organised it last year. The council decided they wanted to run it themselves this year (thank god). it was a well run event probably better than we managed and I hope they continue to run it but I won't be bothering again unless they lose some of the mud. I thought we had a good balance last year but it was grim today. The bit where they made us ride on the grass back up to the start was just depressing

Oh and it was no cross bikes allowed this year.

There were definitely cx bikes today a couple came past me

Well they said on the bc website MTB only and it's beyond me why anyone would want to round there unless they were just intending to jog 5 laps

Any results yet?

Noticed a few photographers out today, any links to the pics?

http://chrismeadsphotography.zenfolio.com/p683308745

nikxl - Member
Well they said on the bc website MTB only and it's beyond me why anyone would want to round there unless they were just intending to jog 5 laps

I think it might have been more suitable for that course than the bike I used today.

I saw a cross bike too, poor chap.

I also noticed about a zillion photographers out there including 2 ladies around the canal bridge / course cross over point, anyone know who they were?

one of the organisers said the results should be on bc website on Monday.

I have got up this morning with my shins covered in blisters, bit like bites anyone know what this could be I ride up there a lot never had this before.