[Closed] MTB sales over the last couple of years?

If you read blogs / magazines you would think you need to spend 1k+ for a "heavy hardtail 2k+ for "entry" level trail bike, 3k for dh. Whereas you can get decent road bikes for under 500

Nejee20 in 2009 I got a fox float 32 on a non discounted £740 hardtail

Fair enough. What? Out of interest.

Focus black forest

Looks like that had a Manitou R7, except the Pro, which was nearer £1000?

except he said discounted

FWIW in the time i have been in to MTB - only about 6 years as I was a roadie
Everything has got much more expensive - exchange rates probably???? not sure

SH prices have also become foolish - look at the price folk want for a SH dropper post - often less than 25% off the new price

except he said discounted

Nejee20 in 2009 I got a fox float 32 on a [b]non discounted[/b] £740 hardtail

FWIW in the time i have been in to MTB - only about 6 years as I was a roadie
Everything has got much more expensive - exchange rates probably???? not sure

I think that's the crux of it, there was a definite peak in value, and it probably was about 2007ish, I had a Trek Fuel Ex 9.8 - carbon frame, Fox Float TALAS fork, full XT groupset with X.0 shifters/mech, Juicy Carbon brakes, tubeless wheels etc for £2500. Bikes like that stood out as exceptional value, a 2000 S-Works FSR was £2600, alu frame, XT/XTR group, v-brakes, crap Manitou fork etc, in 7 years bikes got cheaper in absolute terms, and vastly cheaper in real terms, this then corrected itself pretty swiftly, but if you joined in those halcyon days it all seems very expensive now.

It would appear that road bike sales are increasing at the expense of mountain bike sales. So overall bike sales are booming (just scan through the Halfords annual report which is the best barometer of the mass market, or the Wiggle soundbites on bikebiz which is arguably a bit more specialist, but still shows healthy sales and profit increases).

Here is a different perspective. Its only one point of view but it sugests that lots of people are buying high end stuff but sales of main stream bikes is down

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/sep/19/britain-cycling-craze-myth-dawes-claud-butler-tandem-group ]Guardian Tandem group sales down[/url]

Also to buy a 'better' bike than my current one would cost me about £4k

+1
Every time I look at a new bike I just see a load of things that won't work or I don't like.

Repeat sales of middle & high-end MTBs must be minimal

This. And yes that IS why 650b is marketed so heavily - they need to woo the likes of us into buying something.

I went to my local Specialized dealer with money in my pocket for either a new helmet or shoes.
It was all road stuff or really cheap MTB . Money stayed in my pocket.

It was the 2009 one:

I bought my first MTB - a mid range Marin with 6 months paper round money and it "looked" very much like what everyone was riding in the magazines.

Fascinating comments above

It's daft what the bike companies are charging now, as is the cost of tyres, brake pads and other consumables

It's ok for people with a disposable income but it must be a nightmare for youngsters trying to get into the sport - those without well of parents - those not willing to fork out £40 for a new cassette every 3 months or a £80 on a set of mud tyres

The market is shrinking hence the push on 650b and electric bikes - invent something which isn't necessary and convince people that they need it

Pick up a copy of MRB or MBUK and the writers/editor - no sorry - the advertisers paying their wage - will tell you what you need

those not willing to fork out £40 for a new cassette every 3 months or a £80 on a set of mud tyres

Why would either of those things be necessary?

You can get a good bike for a not crazy sum of money, the top end has gone crazy, agreed, but it's not essential to spend £7k+.

The exchange rate story mentioned is an interesting part of the issue albeit it started back in 2008.

IIRC, after a decade of containment by the Japanese Gov't (which followed their financial meltdown at the end of the last century) they undertook to revalue the Yen on the international market in mid 2008. Despite the global economic implosion, this was relatively successful and the Yen almost doubled in value against the USD/GBP. Big hikes were seen in prices for Japanese products across the world & this, IMHO, was the catalyst for the (relatively) sudden rise in bike prices seen at the time. It was around then there were many discussions about it becoming elitist/expensive etc.

A quick search* shows this to be reflected in the money markets and, whilst things have subsequently settled down, I'm not sure the consumer has seen the benefit.

It is, of course, entirely possible that there has been a reduction in component cost to manufacturers which has been offset by increased manufacturing costs for frames etc but this doesn't seem to be reflected in retail prices of components.

*[url= http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=JPY&to=GBP&view=10Y ]10 year Yen/GBP trace[/url]

If you look around there are still a few bargains to be found. But I've noticed that manufacturers seem to be getting more savvy at limiting supply to match demand. Less new stock on the shop floor and less discounted old stock at end of season. The days are gone when shops would have racks of bikes standing in the showroom.

Same thing has happened in the ski world too. Less stock and therefore less discounting.

when I worked for Freeborn, we could sell a Rockhopper with Rockshox fork (with oil damper) and Avid hydraulic disc brakes for £600 this was probably a 2008 model?

If you look at what you now get for £600 its barely more than an entry level canal path capable "MTB"

things have gotten expensive...

Doubt the wheel size thing is that much of a factor. Some people on here might hesitate to buy a new bike because of it but I would think that's a pretty small percentage of the people who walk through bike shop doors. I reckon a combination of:
-Road cannibalizing sales
-People are generally more skint
-A lot of people who bought bikes a few years ago now getting a fright when they look at upgrade/replacement cost
-Just one of those things.
Lots of sports/outdoor pursuits go through highs and (relative) lows of popularity. E.g. a few years ago climbing was supposedly the fastest growing sport in the UK, then a bit later it was triathlon. Comes and goes.

Rockhopper with Rockshox fork (with oil damper) and Avid hydraulic disc brakes for £600 this was probably a 2008 model?

The 2006/7/8 Rockhopper discs were all £700 IIRC. The 2008 definitely was (ms njee20 has one!), and it came with a basic and very heavy Tora fork, Deore/SLX 9 speed group etc. 6 years on you can buy a Canyon Yellowstone Al 4.9 for £649, with RS forks, 10 speed SLX/XT groupset etc etc. An Inbred with Rebas, 10 speed X5 etc is £900.

Yes, an equivalent Rockhopper is more expensive, but the market's just changed a bit. I do think there's some use of some rather thick rose tinted spectacles in use when folk remember bikes!

I'm not surprised that MTB sales in the UK are declining, the marketing is all wrong. Go into your local supermarket, pick up a mountain bike magazine and ask yourself whether what is in there is likely to appeal to the sort of middle aged, middle class person with disposable income. No, it's all about the gnarr. If you are not throwing yourself down rocky chutes, launching off drops and getting a loyalty card at your local A&E then you have no place in our sport grandad. Go buy a road bike.

A few months back I went for a ride on the Glenfiddich estate. To get there I drove along the Cabrach road. I must have passed at least 20 roadies sweating their way up the climb. I then spent five hours riding totally deserted landrover tracks and was left wondering why those roadies would prefer to ride up a ribbon of tarmac being buzzed by cars when the climb up from the lodge to Corryhabble hill is every bit as tough a challenge and a lot more fun. For some reason they just don't think mountain biking is for them and I can't really blame them.

when the climb up from the lodge to Corryhabble hill is every bit as tough a challenge and a lot more fun.

Because that's personal? I'd rather ride on the road than ride fire roads/land rover tracks.

Yes bikes have got more expensive but then most components do last a lot longer than they previously used too which is also probably a contributing factor as to why mtb sales are declining.

My first mtb was some emelle thing which cost about £300 but the parts on it were rubbish, I'd managed to shear the axle on my cranks within 3 months of owning it back in the mid 90s whereas if you look at my current cranks I've had them over 5 years now and they are still going strong and never had an issue. Even my brakes, 8 year old Hope M4s have nothing wrong with them so why change them.

On average I'd say I have a bike/frame for at least 4/5 years before I consider changing it because it's not worth anywhere what I originally paid for it and if I were to change it any sooner I wouldn't feel like I'm getting my money's worth out of the stuff. Yes I've just spend a bit of cash this year buying a new frame, forks and wheels but for me I'll get plenty of use out of the bike and it justifies the small fortune I've just spent.

As for my next bike I'll almost certainly look at the direct sales stuff because it's such better value for money now. But I'm now essentially out of the mtb market for the next 4/5 years barring anything I break that needs replaced and even then I'd be looking at reduced or 2nd hand parts.

A few months back I went for a ride on the Glenfiddich estate. To get there I drove along the Cabrach road ... and was left wondering why those roadies would prefer to ride up a ribbon of tarmac being buzzed by cars

Because that's personal? I'd rather ride on the road than ride fire roads/land rover tracks

Fair enough, there was a time when I would have felt the same. Each to their own, but I wonder whether all of those 20 odd people that I saw (and the dozens that I didn't) would really prefer the road climb over the traffic free option and what is stopping them from trying the alternative?

Perhaps they prefer riding bikes to driving cars?

I'm not sure how important this really is. There are very few sports that you can do from your front door. I agree that it is one of the plus points of road cycling, but you don't hear golfers complain because there isn't a golf course at the bottom of their garden. Even roadies are often happy to travel to get to those fun climbs.

The fact is that middle aged folk with disposable income feel that road cycling is a sport for them and don't feel the same way about mountain biking. How many "celebrities" you you know that ride mountain bikes? My point is that a lot of these people could be attracted to XC mountain biking, if it were marketed properly.

What year was it that the cost of raw materials shot up? I seem to remember about 5 or 6 years ago the bike press was awash with stories about next years bikes being way more expensive.

I'm not surprised that MTB sales in the UK are declining, the marketing is all wrong. Go into your local supermarket, pick up a mountain bike magazine and ask yourself whether what is in there is likely to appeal to the sort of middle aged, middle class person with disposable income. No, it's all about the gnarr. If you are not throwing yourself down rocky chutes, launching off drops and getting a loyalty card at your local A&E then you have no place in our sport grandad.

This!!!

No appealing to sense of adventure or wilderness, no 'lifestyle' or 'get away from it all' or 'at one with nature' - all 'radical dude' bollocks (see also yesterdays post about MTB film/video having gone the same way)

Britain has AMAZING trails all over the place, the daily trail riding/mountain biking that most of us do is no more supermaxextreme than it is head down arse up XC racing - for a while there in the early to mid 2000's we were doing really well on bringing people into the sport on the 'outdoor lifestyle' explore the countryside angle, especially with the trail centres, but we threw it all away by putting berms on everything...

roverpig - Member
I'm not surprised that MTB sales in the UK are declining, the marketing is all wrong. Go into your local supermarket, pick up a mountain bike magazine and ask yourself whether what is in there is likely to appeal to the sort of middle aged, middle class person with disposable income. No, it's all about the gnarr. If you are not throwing yourself down rocky chutes, launching off drops and getting a loyalty card at your local A&E then you have no place in our sport grandad.

However, I'm fairly immune to the marketing, because a.) I'm a cynic and b.) like most of my contemporaries, I've invested in a decent bike, which I maintain well. With variously limited funds, I don't many people can afford to change too often, but they're equally aware that a cheaper bike (designed for what 80% of users will ask of it) won't really last. The result is, IMHO, much longer periods of ownership and also a lot of people who will only buy very good secondhand.

i think MTBing is declining because every niche has been filled by a specific kind of bike and whereas in the past we just used to go riding off-road, now we need a special bike for every hill. It's become far more of a lifestyle statement than it used to be and people are careful about making statements

Road riding is purer in this sense - more reliance on the rider and less on the equipment - and I think this appeals to a lot of folk

Some interesting comments about the cost of mountain bikes and kit. There is no doubt that some stuff is silly prices but the manufacturers only price stuff at what people are willing to pay - If nobody bought a 4k bike, they wouldn’t make one.

The average MTB rider in the UK (and I include myself in that) doesn’t NEED a 4k bike, a 1k fork, they don’t NEED £100 shorts/helmet/5 10’s/MTB specific jerseys etc. There seems to be this obsession in the MTB’ing community that you need all this stuff and it has to be the right colour/weight etc. There is also this “need” to constantly upgrade stuff, I will bet that 90% of riders couldn’t tell the difference between a lot of components in a blind test. In fact I suspect most of us would struggle to tell a 4k bike from a 1k bike by feel alone.

I maintain that the best upgrade most of us could make is to lose 5kg’s and ride our bikes twice as often to improve our skills.

There are very few sports that you can do from your front door. I agree that it is one of the plus points of road cycling, but you don't hear golfers complain because there isn't a golf course at the bottom of their garden. Even roadies are often happy to travel to get to those fun climbs.

The golf comparison doesn't hold up, because there's no other option for 99.9999% of golfists.

However that option is there with cycling. You either:

Ride a mountain bike, drive to the trails, potter around for a couple of hours, drive home, clean bike etc. So you may ride for (say) 2 hours of 6 that are committed to the activity. Or...

Ride a road bike straight out the door, maximise riding time, no cleaning and so on.

Many of the (not hugely serious) roadies I know are family people who want to get a ride in early so they're back with their kids for the weekend. You can do a decent road ride in 3 hours. Most people cannot do a decent MTB ride in 3 hours door to door.

I hate sticking my road bike in the car, seems wrong, but most mountain bikers fully accept it as a part of the 'ride', which is ironic!

whilst I agree that there are various bargains about I do think that new decent mtb prices have gone up faster than inflation and currency etc dictates. My own example would be buying a new 07 Merlin Rock Lobster 853 with full xt, on the C2W scheme for £1000. 6 years later I built a new Soul, through LBS, with deceent discounts on bits, again with full xt and it was pretty much double the price of the 'equivalent' bike 6 yrs earlier, with like for like components.

I am also frustrated while currently trying to source a decent new light hardtail for my 11 yr old son that £700 - £800 buys something pretty basic and heavy these days. That Canyon Yellowstone would be spot on if they did a 650b or 26 version..

Hooli, agree with most of your post as most people purchase things on WANT or NEED rather than it being essential but the that's consumer choice.

In terms of prices it only takes one company to charge the higher price before the rest follow suit and then we as consumers have no choice but to pay it. Take helmets for example they're now going for stupid money, I think I read something when Interbike was on that there's a open face helmet coming out from one of the manufacturers at over £200, how long do you think it'll be before everyone is charging that for a helmet.

Must admit, I've lost interest in trying to keep up with MTB technology. I think they are making a mistake changing things constantly in the hope that people will be fooled for long into believing that they must have the latest new kit. It's certainly pushed me the other way.
Just look at all the different standards for headsets and axles for a start. Makes it almost impossible to swap your components over to a new frame without a massive spend.
I used to do most of my own spannering too, but now if you buy a specialist tool for a BB or suchlike, by the time you need to use it to replace a component, they've stopped making that type and you need new tools. Cheaper and easier to take it to a shop these days.
The price of bikes has gone insane too. I never used to consider anything less than XT equipped, but now you're looking at a Deore level spec. on what was an XT price bike not long ago. Forks seem to have doubled in price too.
Probably sound like a miserable old git, but I've sunk enough money into the bike industry over the years and I feel like we're being shafted. I don't mind spending a chunk of money on a quality bike, but there should be a decent lifespan before all your parts are obsolete.
It's time we had some long-lasting standards again.

A few comments above I totally agree with, all symptoms of a mature market and a highly developed, segmented and categorised 'sport'. There's nothing really, truly new to be done and there hasn't been for a good few years. Hence the interest in fat bikes - simple, low-maintenance rigid bikes with no focus on Rad or Fast but with a genuinely new aspect to them that has refreshed some riders' enthusiasm or let them get back to basics again.

It's all just riding bikes in the dirt, if riding average natural terrain for the sake of it loses appeal and it becomes about looking for more tech, more bike to cope and imo it's on the way to the extreme example of MX - so few places to ride and the opposite of the freedom a good ATB should offer.

It's time we had some long-lasting standards again.

Ride a mountain bike, drive to the trails, potter around for a couple of hours, drive home, clean bike etc. So you may ride for (say) 2 hours of 6 that are committed to the activity.

Isn't there something on the homepage where some firm have just built a 13 speed cassette

Isn't there something on the homepage where some firm have just built a 13 speed cassette

whilst I agree that there are various bargains about I do think that new decent mtb prices have gone up faster than inflation and currency etc dictates

But that comes back to my original point that it depends when your baseline is. Since 2007? Yes, definitely. Since 2000, no, not a jot. Since 2012? Probably about right.

some firm have just built a 13 speed cassette

-ageing population, wants lower risk during riding

Well they are hilariously deluded if they think they're going to run a lower risk of death by becoming roadies.

Hooli, agree with most of your post as most people purchase things on WANT or NEED rather than it being essential but the that's consumer choice.

In terms of prices it only takes one company to charge the higher price before the rest follow suit and then we as consumers have no choice but to pay it. Take helmets for example they're now going for stupid money, I think I read something when Interbike was on that there's a open face helmet coming out from one of the manufacturers at over £200, how long do you think it'll be before everyone is charging that for a helmet.

I'm not surprised that MTB sales in the UK are declining, the marketing is all wrong. Go into your local supermarket, pick up a mountain bike magazine and ask yourself whether what is in there is likely to appeal to the sort of middle aged, middle class person with disposable income. No, it's all about the gnarr. If you are not throwing yourself down rocky chutes, launching off drops and getting a loyalty card at your local A&E then you have no place in our sport grandad.

This!!!

No appealing to sense of adventure or wilderness, no 'lifestyle' or 'get away from it all' or 'at one with nature' - all 'radical dude' bollocks (see also yesterdays post about MTB film/video having gone the same way)

Britain has AMAZING trails all over the place, the daily trail riding/mountain biking that most of us do is no more supermaxextreme than it is head down arse up XC racing - for a while there in the early to mid 2000's we were doing really well on bringing people into the sport on the 'outdoor lifestyle' explore the countryside angle, especially with the trail centres, but we threw it all away by putting berms on everything...

This +2. The marketing is aimed at "da kidz" but they aren't the ones with the disposable income available to buy £4K bikes plus another £1K on clothes and gear. While they might sell a new bike to an existing middle-aged type who already rides, the youngsters won't be joining the sport when the barriers to entry are ever higher - not only is the industry telling them that they need to spend upwards of £2K on a bike to get anything worth riding, but as new entrants they will also need as a minimum a helmet, shorts, gloves and probably shoes and again, that looks like several hundred quid if you read the magazines to get your information.

Although it's about consumer choice if your only option when looking for a new helmet were ones at £200 then that's what you'd have to pay. It's like that with anything, take petrol if BP said let's put petrol up by 5p guaranteed the rest would follow suit if BP was still selling it at 5p more a litre.

one thing that might be worth considering is that if MTB isn't attracting new people because of the prohibitive expense then it might give low sales figures for complete bikes but most hardened MTBers would never buy complete bikes; im sure the sales for frame only deals, particularly with the 650b 'revolution', would tell a different story. Even with a 650b switch, riders can do it incrementally either with a convertible bike (say Banshee or Canfield) or running 650 forks with 26 wheels or 650 wheels in 26 dropouts

I agree with a lots of what's been said; MTB is much more pleasurable and challenging for me than road riding but we're all time strapped and MTB is often a whole day out unless you have a local loop and don't mind cleaning off mud. Unfortunately I moved from the peaks to forest of bowland where bridleways are like rocking horse poo!

As interesting as the debate is, I guess the next question is where are things headed?

The next "mini boom" will be for CX and Road disc bikes (we're sort of seeing it already aren't we), which might well be driven, at least in part, by MTBers/ex MTBers who've picked up Road cycling, in addition to MTBing but fancy a dabble with drop bars off road or are looking for something more Winter/year round "appropriate" to use on the road... It's not primarily "proper roadies" who want to mix drop bars and disc brakes, it's MTBers who've drifted over to the "Darkside" and brought a few slightly different ideas with them...

It's all quite cyclical though MTBing is probably overall still a Growing sport, the rate of growth might be dipping with more interest in Road and CX riding at the minute but I think there will be a "Baseload" of new people coming into MTBing for some time...
A mix of the Cost of living/income constraints and Mainstream media buzz is helping UK Road cycling along a bit, TBH it's not a [i]bad[/i] thing, it's all cycling, so it's all good...

There will of course be some of those "New Roadies" who become secondary adopters of MTBing and those of us who've been at it for a while simply aren't biting as much with the current lot of products, but some still are, the high price point level (£1k+) isn't the whole market, most people will come into MTBing via a sub £500 HT of some sort still I reckon... And who knows, persuade ITV4 to pick up the rights to EWS or the BDS and that could drive a little more interest.

More People are into cycling now, which specific Niche's they dabble in and which they might try out latter is not set in stone yet...

A few comments above I totally agree with, all symptoms of a mature market and a highly developed, segmented and categorised 'sport'. There's nothing really, truly new to be done and there hasn't been for a good few years.

At the higher end of the market MTBs have become part of a highly specialised sport which requires significant money, spare time and motivation and, despite what we may feel, isn't viewed by the majority of the population as being particularly cool. There was always going to be a limit to the number of people fitting this bill and most of them have already got several bikes. Changing the wheel size or tyre width isn't going to revitalize this market, it's reached it's natural limit.

Thanks to the 'Wiggins effect' (including the Tour de Yorkshire), road bikes are now the cool purchase for people who have spare time, disposable income and reasonable fitness, and this is spilling over to sports mountain bikers. If you've already got N+1 mountain bikes what better way to satisfy that new bike itch than by buying a road or CX bike?