[Closed] M&S Insurance / Bike Replacement and my rights.

All they need to do is give you the cost of your original bike, so £1500 is fair, they cannot force you to go to anyone, and you can just ask for a cheque for the total amount and you then take it anywhere you want.
You can't expect them to pay you out more than you paid as the exchange rate has gone against us

I do see you're point but it does make me worse off. I end up with a bike that's no where near the same. To be honest I am willing to accept the £1500 but not less the 20% if I don't go with their supplier.

If you push it on the basis that wheelies can't give you an equivalent you should get the full amount.

Try giving them a breakdown of where the bike they are offering you is not equivalent to the one you are claiming against and see if they come back with a better offer.

Given I'm with M&S I'm a bit concerned that I have to to this "Wheelies" place. I'll bet they don't sell Ventana's, Niner's, Kona Ute's or Islabikes. The wifes Spesh Hotrock is probably ok.

How about if you take the cash and buy a frame?

They are not taking all your kit away are they?

I'm supposed to dispose of the bike.
Take the cash minus the 20% for not going with wheelies?

Hmmm, another dimension...

I recently made a claim for damage to my carbon bike after falling on black ice. I wanted the scuffed bits replacing to reinstate original condition. Wheelies were quite keen to replace the whole lot even though the frame had only taken a small biff to the derailleur mount on the basis of 'unseen nasties'.

They were going to give me a brand new Scott CR1. I declined and had them replace the scuffed bits only. They tried the 20% trick as I didn't want to buy from Wheelies. I told them I'd go for the full ~£3k replacement claim if they did this.

M&S paid my claim in full, about £600. Still not sure if I shouldn't have looked this particular gift horse in the mouth.

When m-s paid out on mine they didn't take the 20% off on the bits they couldn't source. ie on ones and an identity that was not replaceable. They did take it off stuff they could get though.

Take the cash minus the 20% for not going with wheelies?

I went with them, but I wouldn't do so again for several reasons.

I can still get an updated version of the bike from another supplier. It's more expensive but I'm willing to add that myself to get a bike that I know fits.
It does worry me that say my brand new Yeti SB66c which cost me quite a bit of money was updated next year and wheelies can't supply it if it were stolen that I wouldn't be able to get a direct replacement. Unless I forfeit 20% of it's value.

did same with daughters bike offering cash minus 20% i discussed forcibly and politley that that i could not get the same with the reduction given the rarity of the bike, M S very supportive Wheelies dire but got full pay out.

Hold out and good luck

Tell them you want the same make/model (obviously though this years version). It's up to them to source it. If they can't, they need to give you enough money for you to buy it.

Get a quote from the company that has it get onto M&S. They can't penalise you if their (Wheelies) nominated supplier can't supply can they?

It's in there terms and conditions, they get discount from suppliers so if you ask for cash then they minus the discount. Also your claiming for £1500 which is the cost of the bike not the frame which is why they're asking you dispose of the bike as a whole.

But he's not asking for cash. He's asking for the same bike under his new for old policy. They've offered somthing 'a bit similar' cos they don't stock the one he has.

It's up to them to provide the correct replacement or the means to secure it if they can't.

if they cannot provide same or equvilant there lies the issue

That's fair enough but every part of the bike has been upgraded. There's a pair of Ksyrium SL's on it for a start so I have to dispose of them?
It's almost worth not claiming...

I got the full cash settlement less my excess when they couldn't give me a like for like replacement as per my policy.

Kept offering me various options none were the same as my bike that was stolen. Kept refusing them after about 3wks of this I was asked if I'd accept a cash settlement.

stick it out for a like for like or full cash, if that is what your policy covers you for.

So list the bits and their replacement value in addition to the bike price. That's why mine ended up well north of £3k.

It's like for like, new for old. However if it's just the frame damaged, that's what you should be claiming for really (not havung a dig, I know Wheelies encourage you to get a complete new one...).

That's all I am claiming for...but they can't supply it.
Unfortunately the frame can't be bought anywhere.

Well yes you have to tell them the full value as you claimned for £1500 so that's what they're offering. You now need to tell them as they can't offer like for like you will need to claim for the whole bike, unless you tell them they don't know.

geordiepaul - Member

I recently damaged the frame on my carbon road bike after someone mentioned I might be covered under my M&S home insurance

Fraud is a very serious offence...

There's no wonder that M&S have pulled the plug on insuring bikes over £1k for free, if people are claiming for accident damage for falling off their bikes...

It's house contents insurance.

Accidental damage cover that you pay extra for no ?

Falling is accidental damage no ? I dont go out planning to fall.

It's no wonder M&S have pulled the plug if people have been claiming for their bikes being nicked... Who'd have thunk it, insuring against specific events and then claiming should one of those insured events occurs.

What wallies.....

The main issue is not the claiming, it's the treatment of those claims i.e. defaulting to full replacement. Makes minor claims many times more costly than they need be.

"[i]There's no wonder that M&S have pulled the plug on insuring bikes over £1k for free, if people are claiming for accident damage for falling off their bikes... It's house contents insurance.[/i]"

Yeah, insurance that covers accidental damage.

There's no wonder that M&S have pulled the plug on insuring bikes over £1k for free, if people are claiming for accident damage for falling off their bikes...

It's house contents insurance.

That covers bikes under valuables which covers accidental damage, so exactly what people were paying for.

The basis of the policy is to put you in the same position you were prior othe incident therefore they should be replacing the damaged frame - either the exact one or the current model/version. If they opt to replace the entire bike then this still applies.

If their nominated supplier is unable to provide it then a cash settlement is due (less any excess) so, if you haven't already, provide them with a quote to do so. If it's more than you paid originally then they are still liable for the full cost (assuming you are insured up to the amount in question).

Thanks for the constructive replies.
Not sure how it went down the route of fraud!?
I pay a specific premium to have items covered away from the home and for accidental damage. So the policy specifically covers it.
It is buildings and contents insurance after all.

Few years ago but when I smashed my Santa Cruz vp free up m&s agreed to send me a cheque for the full value in the name of my LBS so I had to spend it on a bike. If I chose cash it would have been 20% less

Recently been through a claim with Wheelies/M&S and had the same offer of 20% reduction for the cash settlement. When I discussed with M&S that I couldn't get the same "new for old" bike they gave me a much more generous cash settlement. They did take 20% off the value of the parts I'd upgraded that I could have got from Wheelies, which I thought was fair enough. The point is I found them very helpful to deal with so just pick up the phone and make your case. You might be pleasantly surprised.

From memory from 5+ years ago when I worked for a big insurer if wheelies couldn't replace it with a new equivalent then we would usually pay out to the full value less xs.
Our preferred route was to get a quote from an lbs then see if we could get a discount from them and pay the cheque to them- everyone's happy.
In saying that I'm not sure what m+s' policy wording is regarding sports equipment being replaced- should be available on their website.
?

Standard policy wording-
through a preferred supplier, but we agree to pay a cash settlement instead the amount we pay will reflect:-
• any discounts we may have received had we replaced your contents or
• the amount it would have cost us
had we repaired or reinstated your buildings and contents based on their current energy ratings.
If no equivalent replacement is available then we will pay the full replacement cost of the item with no discount applied.

Suppose you could argue that wheelies cannot offer an equivalent replacement- ie, an on-one etc..

I was insured through Barclays and Wheelies is their supplier - I had a damaged Trek and I could have got one of those but I decided to get a Giant from Wheelies and did better as a result. I reckon from my claim that Wheelies give a 30% discount to the insurance companies. I was able to add to the payout agreed to get a better bike from Wheelies at a 23% discount - I was very happy with they way it worked out.

Good luck getting the full value. From their standpoint why would they pay you 20% more to settle the claim than they can by using Wheelies?

I used to manage a claims dept for a large household insurer, we used a lot of suppliers to settle claims, we saved a lot of money that way. We would never give out the full cash equivalent, we would offer equivalents less the discount regularly.

Its the way of the world, read your policy.

Ignore all the above advice except the advice - mine included - that recommends you ring M&S and talk to them. I have very recent and positive experience of them sorting out my bike thefts (3 of them!). They agreed they could not replace like for like and offered a cash settlement I was happy with.

To be fair to Wheelies they were great to deal with, but I'm glad I negotiated cash.

I recently made a claim for damage to my carbon bike after falling on black ice. I wanted the scuffed bits replacing to reinstate original condition. Wheelies were quite keen to replace the whole lot even though the frame had only taken a small biff to the derailleur moun

And we wonder why insurance is expensive.

[b]Scuffed[/b] parts? FFS

Simons

At least its not just me that thinks the same, I was beginning to wonder.

+ 1 br & simons

'scuffed bits' FFS! no wonder m&s changed there terms is it 🙁

Slightly different in my case.
A car knocked me off my bike. Which demolished rearwheel, snapped frame and deeply scuffed shifters.

The scuffed shifters are something I will insist on getting replaced too.

I was in the same boat, with M&S & directed to wheelies.

But as has been said you just need to politely argue the case that you want the same bike (whether you do or don't) & they can not offer that therefore you should get the full cash back.

It worked for me.

mooman - did you not claim off his car insurance surely? shouldnt have to be claiming off your home insurance for something like that?

How Old Is the Frame?..How did you damage it? what is the damage..?

id look at these first to help me decide if what there offering is a good deal to you..not its bad cos there not letting me have what i want, sounds to me like you want a different bike than the one you have anyway..

if it where me id be happy to take 20percent off and get what i want..at the end of the day you would not sell your second hand bike for full new price so i think thats fair...or go with wheelies, you chose M&S they chose there conditions...thats the deal...

if it can be fixed easily or its not that bad then you may be usin the opportunity just to get a new bike which is fraud i think..maybe the accidental damage was not accidental...

oh and did you buy all your kit brand new or second hand..is that the value new or what you paid..

this would all help me to work out how good the deal is in reality ...

I used to manage a claims dept for a large household insurer, we used a lot of suppliers to settle claims, we saved a lot of money that way. We would never give out the full cash equivalent, we would offer equivalents less the discount regularly.

Its the way of the world, read your policy.

Doesn't mean you were right. The Ombudsman always finds in the favour of the policyholder if it goes that far - unfortunately, many folk just take the insurance co's word for it. As stated before, if you actually read the whole policy it will either be indemnity or reinstatement as a basis of settlement - the former is 'market value' the latter 'new for old' - both entitle the insured person to be put in the same position he/she was immediately prior to the loss.

It's much like when you have a car accident & the insurer tries to insist you must use their repairer network - it's simply not enforceable unless the insurer can prove a valid case for it, but even then it's rare.

It's no wonder the industry has the reputation it does is it.

oh and did you buy all your kit brand new or second hand..is that the value new or what you paid

The deal with M&S/Wheelies is to offer a new equivalent replacement (or at least it was when I claimed recently). What you might have paid is irrelevant.

It's no wonder the industry has the reputation it does is it.

It's not all bad. My experience of dealing with M&S when my bikes were stolen was very favourable. People need to learn that if you're not happy with the settlement, call your insurer and negotiate instead of getting us forumites into a tizzy arguing about it.

i know but it would just help me decide if what there offering me is good in reality...it may have cost 1500 new but if id paid 800 and got offered 1500 less 20per id see that as good..

anyway if i bought it second hand how can i claim the new for old if it wasnt new..

above was said..

"both entitle the insured person to be put in the same position he/she was immediately prior to the loss."

if if it was second hand and the claim is for what it would have cost new then the OP is in a better position , which is fraud i think..

how is it more cost efective to replace a whole bike and not just the frame..?

genuine qustion

Wheelies are very helpful when you can get hold of them and in a position to put money their way.

But they are also quite keen to give high valuations.

If I were M&S I would want to consider separating the valuation and replacement parts of the process.

Oh, and +1 for the OP to just call M&S and discuss situatuion regarding existing parts. Or use your common sense.

If I were M&S I would want to consider separating the valuation and replacement parts of the process.

This crossed my mind I must confess

What impact have these claims had on your premiums? The other half had a huge ding put into her Stumpy during a fall recently and would be nervous riding it anymore. We know it meets the accidental damage criteria but we had (maybe wrongly) assumed that there would be more cost associated with premium uplift that actual payout. Any real world examples?

My claim was made in the same week as my renewal was due, so I managed to get another year at the same premium. I lost a considerable value of bikes in my theft so not claiming was not an option (well, it was, but I'd have been a very unhappy chappy)

Blimey, a couple on here who are so altruistic they pay for a service and then don't use it. Your choice.

I paid for accidental damage cover, suffered it and claimed accordingly. That's what insurance is for.

The Ombudsman always finds in the favour of the policyholder if it goes that far

Were we right to apply the policy terms? Yes, customers knew what they were signing up for, our shareholders needed a return on their invesment, and our business needed to operate as a business, not a charity.

I recently damaged the frame on my carbon road bike after someone mentioned I might be covered under my M&S home insurance

I would get the first line of your post corrected before someone who works at M&S insurance stumbles across it.

I do appreciate that it's not meant that way, but taken out of context it reads like you damaged the frame to claim on insurance.

I had to read that a few times to get what you meant but I got it now 😳

There are those that seem to think paying for accidental damage means paying for something that you shouldn't ever claim for. M&S were pretty meticulous in ensuring that it was and sufficient enough for a claim. So no it wasn't a scratch.

Simple fact is I have a bike that I can't ride because it's damaged. I am only claiming for the frame but they're saying a bike is more cost effective cos the only frames they supply are £2500+.

I spoken to both parties in depth. Wheelies are adamant they they supply the bike M&S will do whatever wheelies say. I have to scrap the bike and proove it. They have said I can swap the part from my old bike to the new one as they are higher spec however on the frames that are available to me thing like SL-K seatpost and SL-K chainset won't fit. They were bought only 6 weeks ago, new. So based on what they're saying I'd have to scrap them and accept a Tiagra.

Anyway I'm sure it will progress but that's where I'm at. I'm not trying to rip anyone off I just want a bike that I can ride again. The insurance was bought for situations like this.

So would 80% of their valuation allow you to buy a new frame equivalent to your or not?

I haven't found one yet but I'm still looking.
I can buy the frame as a complete bike for 120% (I'm happy to put the 20% in) of their valuation if they'd allow me to swap the bits over.

There are those that seem to think paying for accidental damage means paying for something that you shouldn't ever claim for.

Not at all. If I had a big stack that wrote off a frame/rendered it unsafe absolutely fine to claim. Cosmetic scuffs on road bike parts are wear and tear - that's taking the piss frankly.

Every one of my mountain bikes would have been replaced on insurance on that basis. Are you going to claim for chainsuck? Chipped paint from thrown up rocks? What about the dent on my downtube where I stacked into that tree stump?

Have you spoken directly to M&S? They are you insurers, they've appointed Wheelies to act in this behalf. IME, M&S were very reasonable and sensible to deal with. I felt Wheelies were pushing for full replacement as this was the easiest and least risk way for them (as agent). This was not the result I wanted and agreed this with M&S.

If you haven't, talk to them directly. If you have and they're giving you grief, I'm very surprised.

<edit> makes note never to buy a Nicolai on the strength of the above posts.

[i]Blimey, a couple on here who are so altruistic they pay for a service and then don't use it. Your choice.

I paid for accidental damage cover, suffered it and claimed accordingly. That's what insurance is for.
[/i]

No, not at all. We probably understand the 'costs' of claiming and its impact on premiums. And I've never claimed on insurance, but I have it for that time when I need it.

Consequently my premiums are all very low (with large excesses, as I'm only claiming with a big problem) - my contents with M&S is less than £13pcm for their all-singing/dancing policy.

The scuffed shifters are something I will insist on getting replaced too

If I had a big stack that wrote off a frame/rendered it unsafe absolutely fine to claim. Cosmetic scuffs on road bike parts are wear and tear - that's taking the piss frankly.

FWIW i heard an article on Whiplash - in france 3 % of accidents involve whiplash claims here it is 75% at a cost of just under £100 each for this difference- its not free

Cosmetic scuffs on road bike parts are wear and tear - that's taking the piss frankly.

So at what point did claiming for scuffs some into the equation? The bike is unrideable and it had plenty of scuff that I would never dream of claiming for.

Those comments [well mine anyway] are not aimed at you but the poster who would claim for scuffed lever/shifters post crash

So at what point did claiming for scuffs some into the equation?

This:

boblo - Member
I recently made a claim for damage to my carbon bike after falling on black ice. I wanted the scuffed bits replacing to reinstate original condition. .... the frame had only taken a small biff to the derailleur ....

Junkyard - Member

The scuffed shifters are something I will insist on getting replaced too

Might do if it was a crash and not my fault but I bet you [ I suspect I would] then sell them on [ the cosmetically damaged

.. how much do scuffed shifters go for?
Nearly new. Pair of sram force 10speed shifters. one careful owner..
Care to make me an offer??

If you assure me the money will go to charity, you seem like the honest decent type , what would be your best price?

No, they don't. The ombudsman sometimes finds in favour of the policyholder, and sometimes in the favour of the Insurer.

Were we right to apply the policy terms? Yes, customers knew what they were signing up for, our shareholders needed a return on their invesment, and our business needed to operate as a business, not a charity.

Really? The Ombudsman nor the ABI have ever accepted the "equivalents" argument if the actual product/item (or an updated version) is available AFAIK. The official definitions of indemnity & reinstatement preclude it.

I can't think of a situation that's arisen where such terms have been upheld when challenged legally or via the FO - the most recent was the debacle over the unusual terms/conditions that Quinn wrote into their motor & liability policies which were all overturned in court.

The 20% is basically the discount the one company gives the other to attract their business. You are in fact paying the one companies discount.
I have worked on the bike companies side (like wheelies) dealing with insurance claims. M+S will have required Wheelies to give them 20% discount on everything, hence if you go for a cash settlement M+S want to get this money from you. I would refuse to pay it and explain why