[Closed] Mini DH/large trail bike?

Spesh SX Trail?

Orange Blood looks like fun.

I have taken my Pitch to the alps (mega) and done a few easier dh courses over here - handled it pretty well. Especially now i have 36 vans on.

Commencal mini DH?

I'm in the same boat as you Backhander, currently considering a Lappiere Froggy.

Frame only for me. I have fairly decent spec parts (less fork) to go on.
There's a lot of frames around, all of which I'm clueless about.

Giant Reign X1. Pedals up anything (if you stay seated and are prepared to plod)and is great DH.

Cove G-Spot or Orange Patriot / Alpine both can be coiled up for DH duties or aired up for Trail duties.

Alpine 160 is great for this. My weapon of choice (guiding in the Alps).

If you are keeping an existing good trail bike just MTFU and get a proper dh bike. Don't bother with a compromise.

2nd Vote for the Reign X here...

And yeah, they do pedal up pretty much anything, unlike a lot of longer travel bikes, as long as you stay seated of course... But they're awesome on the downs too, the relatively long wheelbase and slack head angle making them handle much more like a proper DH bike than it should have any right to. In fact, I've seen quite a few in the past fitted with either a 180mm single crown (replacing the 160mm Fox 36 that's standard), or a 203mm Boxxer or Marzocchi 888 fitted, and used as a short travel DH race bike. Fitting a dual crown voids your warranty, but you're likely to be buying 2nd hand anyway, and Reign X's do tend to go quite cheaply from what I've seen.

try learn some DHing? WTF?

do you walk your intense down everything on your rides?

i kept an eye out for an old orange frame, reguarly they come up sub 400 and that'll get you a tough, single pivot frame to learn on, also it's a lot nicer crashing on an old bike than a spangly new frame, and you will probably do plenty of crashing like i have.

im aiming for that feel with my summer season 😀

could be interesting....

if i was going to get a full susser,i would certainly got for a single pivot.

love my trance and its maestro loverlyness, but for "dicking about" on mini DH, ide go for low maintenence.

Solid Flair preferably 😀 then its pure single speed able, 160mm travel so LOW maintenence to mini DHs uplifting

lapierre froggy/spicy.

speccy sx trail.

Mondraker prayer.

kona stinky for cheapness.

are all on my - 'bikes to consider now i've admitted i don't need a 45lb Dh race bike' - list...

(i've owned single pivot bikes, and multi pivot bikes, i really don't buy the single pivot = less maintenance idea)

that makes no sense! why would you admit to loving your trance's suspension system and then go and buy something with a shit suspension design for when suspension really matters? 😕

for a DH bike I'd choose quality of suspension over quantity every time.

If you are keeping an existing good trail bike just MTFU and get a proper dh bike. Don't bother with a compromise.

Just to give another view, I bought a Big Hit and found it far too heavy and frustrating to pedal anywhere.

Now I've sold it and am getting a 180mm travel, lighter bike. Probably a Froggy, but only because I think I can get a discount.

Merida one-five-o s bloody lovely bike with a floating rear disk

i agree, get a proper dh bike... they are (surprisingly) alot better for going dh fast than somethinglike an sx trail... aybe not if you are a pro, but still on a supposedly easy course (that aussie one) the top 2 were on proper dh bikes...

I dont like comprimise, which something like an sx would be.

best thing I ever did was give up on the idea of a do everything bike. too many compromises involved. angle, compenents and for me most importantly tyre choice. If you've ever tried pedalling any distance on dual ply supertackies you'll know what I mean. They are alright but not great on a DH track, climbing sucks and any singletrack without a decent gradient is pretty hard work to keep the speed up.

now I have a five and a commencal Supreme DH. perfect combo.

I'd look at the geo of a proper downhill bike and try and match it as best you can... not to state the obvious you want slack head angle, not too short a wheelbase and not too high a bottom bracket. Some 7" travel bikes are more built for freeriding and so have a geometry that isnt so great for fast dh. problem is anything with a dh style head angle is gonna be nasty to climb so a wind down or step down fork would be essential to make a proper climber... for super light downhill bikes there is the socom fro and you get to keep it in that family... ive pedalled a cannondale gemini up afan (dont laugh only bike i had at the time) and to be honest it wasnt that bad (had a wind down 170mm travel fork) so as long as it is light any dh bike can be pedalled up. The reality is your gonna have to compromise if you dont go for the real deal. So itse either gonna be better at up or better at down. As someone said youve already got one to go up. so....

while all bikes can ride most things if really pushed to it, DH bikes are good for NOTHING other than DH.

shocking, perhaps not.

but a DH bike, and "a bike for dicking about on DH tracks and mini DH races, NOT proper DH" is quite different.

if you want to get from the top to the bottom as fast as possible, and nothing else, on no other trail than a DH bike, a DH bike is what you need.

be prepared for a bill at the end of every run if your properly giving it death, and probably 20-30 mins of actuall riding a day.
and having to pay mucho denarii to race.

or enter MINI DH and dont worry about winning so much, and just enjoy it.
in which case, a single speed 160mm dicking about bike 😀

or get the trail bike you want, then get a headset angle slackener for it?

looking forward to showing yall my "mini DH hardtail" 😀

Foes Fly? 8" travel, builds into a 34lb-36lb bike, chain device mounts, triple ring compatible, 12x150mm rear hub, floating brake arm, full length seat tube. Climbs up as well as it flies down.

Foes FXR? 6.5" travel, easy 30lb build, plus all of the above features. 135mm QR or 12x150mm rear axle, optional floating brake.

J

My marin quake has been up innerleithen, glentress, cwmcarn, afan, coed-y-brenin
And then one week it did, fort william dh, fort william world champs xc, learnie red rocks, golspie, laggan, erm some other northern trail centres and ended the week doing the fort william enduro dh.
I wasn't the quickest on the xc rides and it didn't help being in the dh geometry setting but hey i did it all.

Thanks for all of the info guys, a lot to think about.
GW, Of course I don't push the Intense down declines, I carry it 🙄
Liking the trance (mucho cheapo frames) and the Blood (not so cheapo!).
Is the alpine a bit too close to the Intense to bother with?
I'm never gonna win anything, would just like to improve as a rider and have some fun. The Intense has a bit too steep a head angle for all that. I saw the DHers at cwmcarn and had a pang of jealousy but can't justify an out and out DH bike (only 2 bikes allowed).

It would seem a bit pointless having an Intense 5.5 and a longer travel trail bike like an SX or an Alpine 160. You'll probably end up only ever riding one of them.

If your an ok rider then Id just get some fat tires and a full facer (if you think you need it) and give it a go on your Intense, if you like it then get a dh bike, or sell your intense and get a one of those long travel trail bikes.

Nicolai FR, UFO, AFR
Yeti 7, 575, 303DHR
Turner RFX
Knolly delirium
Santa cruz nomad

if you dont want to throw your intense down a hill ( i normally ride my little 4" giant trance on mini dh) then as people have suggested a lightly built sx, the alpine 160 or the new giant reign is meant to be much lighter and the maestro has always worked brilliantly.

Trance? Honestly? Some very random recommendations on this thread!

I've ridden the same 06 SX Trail for > 2 years out here in BC; I'd say it cuts the mustard. The new one is on my upgrade path for 2010.

Other small big bikes:
Trek Scratch
SX Trail
Reign SX

Smaller big bikes:
The new S-Works Enduro looks fun
Nomad
Remedy

A decent wind-down fork can definitely make a slug climber into a passable all-mountain ride too.

Whistler really beats the crap out of you and your bike too, so come with the biggest bike you can find and HAVE IT! 😀

Orange 5 AM or the Alpine 160

Backhander - I'm in a similar boat, want to progress my skills and also clear some of the DH runs in my area - love my current bike (Soul) but want something more for the hard hits.

However, before I do this I've got myself booked in on a skills course this Monday to learn the basics and improve my skills foundation so hopefully taking on these DH runs isn't just about the bike but about my ability too...

Bushwacked, I've got some training on drops and jumps booked too.
What about an intense 6.6?

Awesome - I can't wait...

I bought a full facer at start of summer, started riding the local DH course and have entered a few local DH play races and have improved my confidence an skillz quite a bit.

I cant afford a 3rd bike (DH) so I've coiled up my Heckler and run old skool Z1s at 150mm. Its absoloutely fine for ragging DH and medium sized drops, you really dont need a proper DH bike to get better at it.

Now I'm more into it I'd love a Blood or something with more suitable angles, but I'd never trade in my Heckler for a bigger all rounder bike that would be a pig everywhere apart from DH or proper mountains. Main pain with my bike is the chain can drop off occasionally on proper fast bumps.

Just because-

[img] [/img]

I'd have a Froggy and SX Trail on my shortlist, I'd also maybe wait and see how the coil Scratch comes out in reviews (or try and get a demo). The new Marin looks interesting to but 'only' 150mm I think.

The Froggy is certainly ridable uphill but you do notice the added weight over 'all mountain' type bikes, the rear doesn't bob much though when seated so it's fine unless you always want to be first up as well as down. It also feels surprisingly nimble once up to speed.

Orange 5 AM or the Alpine 160

I took my 5AM to the alps and it was fine but a bit light for continued downhill use.

The blood is much more solid and downhill orientated with a slacker angles. Haven't used it much in anger yet mind...
[img] [/img]

That Blood looks sweet - the only non-fugly full suss bike that Orange make. 🙂

Just lob some dual ply tyres, DH tubes, a 40mm Stem and a Bash to the Tracer.

Chances are if you're only just thinking about downhilling you won't be attempting courses that need a DH bike from the off (e.g. CwmCarn) and the Tracer will be fine.

I did the above with my Orange Five at CwmCarn and survived 9 or 10 runs and most of the day before arm pump forced me to stop. I was a long way from being the slowest there that day as well...

If you like it, get a DH bike.

I've just toughened up my Giant Reign (not the X version). 6" rear travel. Marz 66SLs at 150mm for general use but adjust the neg air to allow 160mm if I'm solely doing DH-orientated tracks - helps slacken the head angle nicely although frame warrantied up to 150mm only I think (mine's 2nd hand anyway so no issue). Chain device that allows 2 rings up front made a big difference. Usually on single-ply high rollers but got dual-plys for bigger days. Weighs in at 35lbs.

Still a compromise and I might change to something bigger travel / more DH-orientated in future depending. Might be worth investigating a Reign or Reign X as they're usually cheap.

I got a Reign X0 back in 07 and it's a mini-DH bike dressed up in trail bike pantaloons.

It's begging for dual ply tyres, a shorter/wider stem/bar setup and burlier wheels. In it's stock guise (single plys, light wheels etc) it's still a bitch to drag around trail centres, and far too comfy to make them any fun. And conversely, without DH bits hanging off it, it's too lightweight to really enjoy a dh course.

I'd also say it's far too similar to your Intense. Just save your cash, whack on fat dualplys and a nice short stem/wide handlebar and give it a bash. If you like it, get a DH bike proper!

Dont bother with the DH tubes if you run dual ply tires, they arent needed and just add loads of extra weight.

well that depends where you ride and what you weigh Mr Pain.

Ive put DH Maxxis tyres on and DH tubes, it only gets pushed back up the hill and less chance of flatting on the way down so eye ay arsed about the weight.

wild card

http://www.mtb-direct.co.uk/cgi-bin/index.cgi?item=MERGE090402154535

Trek Scratch
or
Trek Scratch?

those blades are well priced.

i do like the look of those solid-blades, but are they heavy/strong enough?

at 6.5lbs i have my doubts.

"xc whippet climbing" ... ?

As mentioned before, can't go wrong with an sx trail. Whack the pro pedal on and it climbs well for a bike of it's size. Lapierre froggy looks pimp as, but haven't ridden one though.

Would a rear maxle not be a must?
Not sure I want a QR 160-180mm bike.

Had a QR DH bike for years, it was fine.

Fair enough, would you buy one now? (no cost saving)

theres a guy selling a blade on descent world, thats how come I knew about them...

http://www.descent-world.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,284.0.html

no idea what they are like myself... think he is selling a S/M which looks very small... but he might know what they are like to ride...

looks to me like he has it setup for sosme serious riding...

they look like FSR...

depending on budget I would probably go for a trek scratch air... proven technology and they look as sorted as the rest of the range...

I've got an SX Trail. Its great downhill but you'd get bored/pissed off pedalling it around the place. It started off 32lbs but the tyres were compromising the purpose of the bike, its maybe 36-36lbs with bigger tyres and tubes. It will winch up anything. I wanted it to be my only full susser but I will be getting a trail bike as well, I love the SX too much to get rid of it but it just won't pedal all day the way a 28lb bike with lighter tyres will.

For a mini DH bike, yeah no probs with QR, You can always run a 10mm thru axle (same dropouts) if it bothers you.

On some bikes rear maxles unscrew themselves (ask anyone with a cove!).

For a full on DH bike, no. But then no proper DH bikes are QR these days anyhow (well ok, I know my intense and any other intense could run as such, but there's no point when it takes an axle too).