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not sure i 'got' the ragley 'til i saw one in 18bikes last weekend - tis a nice thing.
i do know of one writer who resigned because the publication he was working for wouldnt publish what he realy thought about a bike
HoratioHufnagel - i bumped into the people testing the bikes. There was a 456 Ti amongst them, but it wasn't included in the test because apparently it was no longer in production (though it still seems to be for sale).
Its still very much in production, whoever told them that has lied
Steve Worland says this on Bikeradar:
"We asked them for the new version but they couldn't supply in time. The old one, which still heads up the long forked hardtails in the WMB buyers guide, might have out-shone the Whyte 19 Ti, which MBUK buyers now know was the most popular on the test. But I suspect it would have been a close call."
and also
"As I explained in the http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12635724 link, we asked for a new On One and they couldn't supply, and it wasn't just a 'next week' situation. They couldn't give us a date. So the Genesis got the slot.
Do people really still think that bikes only get included/praised if someone advertises? Look a little deeper. Was the 10 out of 10 On One ever advertised? A lot of bikes tested are from advertisers, simply because they tend to be popular and interesting brands.
John Moore... I still think the Jones was one of the most stunning (and surprising) bikes I've ever tested but we can't include one for the cynics to ridicule every time we test Ti hardtails.
PS We asked for a Cotic Soda too, but like On One Cy is waiting for the new ones."
Oh, and has nobody noticed that another bike mag which you may have heard of also did a Ti hardtail feature this month, and also didn't get either a Soda or a 456?
They don't exactly give a "best and worst" conclusion but the Whyte got the best overall comments despite them saying that the alu one makes more sense, while the Ragley also got very positive comments. Very similiar result to MBUK, so why aren't they being accused of bias, hmm?
I guess it's a difficult time for bike testing though - Cy and On-One aren't just getting new batches of frames, but basically rebuilding them from the ground up to fit the new EU legislation. I suppose the big boys are already on it, but the smaller manufacturers are still working on it.
I suppose i've cocked up by ordering my Ti456 ? Never mind, it's my choice.
Odd that on-one couldn't supply a ti456, the standard sized 18" frames seem to have been in stock in one form or another for months and months. Mind you, judging from Steve Worlands comments it might well have have won if it was close to the Whyte but a fraction of the price?
Hmmm, I remember a magazine giving a bike 8/10 despite it breaking while on one of the test rides, quite incidently the foreign test ride had been organised by the bike company.
I noticed last year one brand had very good reviews despite dodgy own brand shocks that kept failing or performed badly. Funny how this year they are even better and oh last years models weren't that good after all.
Grrr
maybe there is some bias in the mags. mbr liking specialized a bit, saying they'll never review a c'dale rush cus the bb is too low! nutters. 😉 But maybe, just maybe, Brant is a good frame designer. Maybe On-ones and Ragleys are good, maybe Cy's doing a great job etc.
Whenever I've been in contact with with Brant or Guy Kesteven (limited experience I know), I've had a really positive response. Personally I think we should be really proud of the smaller british bike companies and the mags are really pretty good too - seriously, try north american magazines... shocking.
d a really positive response. Personally I think we should be really proud of the smaller british bike companies and the mags are really pretty good too - seriously, try north american magazines... shocking.
I always used to be more than a little suspicious of MBA's reviews when the test riders were wearing full kit that matched the bike they were riding. Almost like a manufacturer's Team rider...
I've never noticed a particular bias towards a manufacturer from the Future crowd, and Dirt don't either, but MBR's Specialized love affair gets a little nausiating. I remember them raving about the Remedy 66 when they rode it at a Trek camp in the states, but when they tested it in the mag it was up against a Specialized, and guess which got the high marks? The Trek was criticised for a degree of flexyness, caused, they said, by it having the heaviest frame, but it was the lightest bike. Huh? From that, I guess they meant the wheels were a bit flexy, but no details were given. I bought a Remedy anyway...
CZ - You've never noticed a bias at Future? Their love affair with Scott can't be missed surely? If anything its worse than MBR and Specialized. Their recent love-ins for all things 'Charge' are quite obvious too, being a local (to them) company probably helps a little too with courting.
Carbis - we've always been at war with Eastasia!
Northwind - Steve Worland says this on Bikeradar:
that says they asked for THE NEW one, not the Ti456. the new one is the Whippet which is still in prototype stage at the moment. and its not a replacement, its a whole new frame to sit alongside the Ti456.
Seems to make sense. Why would they test a bike they've already tested.
Anyone know if there's a new 456 coming too?
new Ti456? why would we change the 10 out of 10 frame? although there have been a few modifications talked about here in the office.
Just to put the record straight , and Im not sure what Steve has been smoking down there but we were never asked to supply an on-one ti 456 in any way shape or form, absolutely no contact or request was made to us .
Of course wed have love to have been asked and we could have supplied ex stock on a 24 hour turnaround , its a bit bizarre what Steve Worland says on Bikeradar cos it simply aint the case , no need for porky pies , and wed have been extremely happy to sort a bike out .
Its really quite bizarre , but as Brant used to say hey ho .
so a magazine tests a bike, it comes out on top.....whatever next?
People have been banging on about Ragley's on here and i'm sure a few people will buy their frames
What exactly is the problem then? it's just an opinion regardless how loaded it might be, the only difference is that it was MBUK that made it. I'm sure if it was Singletrack that printed exactly the same review then you'd all be taking it as gospel.
I bought an album once based on a review, i didn't like it, i got over it.....although mabye i should sue Mojo
Hmmmm... I think the point here maybe that:
(1) MTB mags weild a considerable amount of commercial power in terms of influencing what people buy (particularly those masses of less experienced riders whose only source of proportedly 'unbaised' info is likely to be said magazines - as opposed to their local Specialised / Trek / Giant etc. retailer, where bias comes as an expected part of the package)
(2) There are resonable grounds to be reasonably suspicious that certain bike mags are in cahoots with their advertisers / ex-journo-bike-manufacturer mates / cronies.
.
.
.
.
(And... (3) A certain ex-journo-cum-bike-manufacturer seems unable to produce a frame, whether it be for £150 or over £1000, that ain't just a touch fugly 😉 I jest..)
Just red this
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12640035&start=40
The Ragley review is on that sight too
Most Ti Frames are never designed or worked to their full potential.
For the most part we are short changed.
-Hand me down alloys.
-half measure working processes
-designed to a cost
I've only ever seen one Ti frame that ticked all the advantages of the material utilised and that was an un-branded prototype... which was stolen about 10 years ago and never seen again. Needless to say the frame was cost prohibitive for re-sale and production.I Have a couple left from earlier designs which are very close... B-)
Bicycle titanium production has only scratched the surface of the materials capabilities ... but then again how far do you need to go...? A little bit further I would say,(But then I'm biased B-))
-Frames still crack
-too heavy for the cost
-not stiff enough for opt performance
-too stiff for comfort
It's a wonderful material that can make something very special if you step out side from what is easier to access and to work with and use your imagination. The Whyte could have gone further... but ask yourself a question, How much would you pay for something that gave an unsurpassed ride in all areas,2,3,4,7 grand for a frame.
I have an unbranded Ti frame that is 18 years old and still out rides anything ridden since... and others riders that agree. This frame if produced today would retail probably at about 4 grand plus. Is there a market for it.Possibly!
Still love the stuff
Zone
Daveplanetx, don't know if you've noticed but there's a further post on Bikeradar...
Someone once said "In between the truth and the truth lies confusion"
"Dave at Planet X/On One is aware that we have his email explaining why he couldn't supply the 'new' 456. The confusion lies in that word 'new'. We'd already tested the Lynskey built 456 so there wasn't a lot of point getting it in again. But we'd heard there might be a new Van Nicholas built one on its way, so we asked if it was available yet. The answer was no. Quite simple really. Dave might fill in some more details here but that's up to him.
To clarify, we didn't ask for the 456 we'd already tested. We asked if the 'new' version was available. It wasn't. We're still looking forward to testing the new Whippet shorter travel bike when that's ready.
Steve"
At least when MBR did their Ti frame review last year, they fitted out the bikes with identical kit - MBUK's review only serves to prove that it's a shit magazine run by idiots
Notably Steve Worland - If I was Dave (from PlanetX) I'd put up the emails to prove that idiot wrong, seeing as he's slagging you off on Bikeradar
Just read the other threads, I'd be suing Worland for Defamation and Slander - disgusting behaviour
Lanesra... WTF are you talking about? Just playing devil's advocate but where do you see Worland slagging Dave off? I don't see it at all, I see confusion between 2 people basically.
Fitting out the frames with the same kit would be idiotic tbh, they're different bikes with different design briefs so there's no one fit that won't disadvantage some. Brant agrees incidentally, going by his posts over on Bikeradar 😉
("Equipment designed for some light twitchy steep angled frame would be awful on something designed for more hardcore trail riding.")
[i]At least when MBR did their Ti frame review last year, they fitted out the bikes with identical kit - MBUK's review only serves to prove that it's a shit magazine run by idiots[/i]
Unfortunately the Ragely's designed for a particular stem size, fitting a longer one (as they did, as an experiment) proved to make it pretty awful to ride, so not much point in fitting identical kit...
Unfortunately the Ragely's designed for a particular stem size, fitting a longer one (as they did, as an experiment) proved to make it pretty awful to ride, so not much point in fitting identical kit...
Rubbish every single bike had different forks, brakes, wheels etc etc..
They could have run the test on all the same kit but, they never
zone well done for hitting nail on head
i do have concerns though that someone may have either tipped you off about something or you work in a very similar industry to me
Lanesra... WTF are you talking about? Just playing devil's advocate but where do you see Worland slagging Dave off? I don't see it at all, I see confusion between 2 people basically
I see Steve Worland calling Dave and On-One liars - As I said let On-One/PlanetX put up the the emails and Worland put up his - I'm betting that Worland/MBUK will be outed as liars
Rubbish. Lets see some links to what you claim. Without quoting out of context of course. When you're ready...
The confusion with supplying a ti 456 to the test is all squared off , we would have not allowed a prototype van nicholas 456 to go into a head to head test as it was exactly that a prototype .Of course if asked wed have gladly supplied the lynskey 456 , and a new one at that, though bizarely it actually transpires that the ti 456 bike was ridden as part of the test ,as the benchmark of the ultimate ti hardtail , but because it had been reviewed previously (not sure ifs ever been in MBUK though?) it couldnt go into the test again , which is of course fair enough .
So the ti 456 was actually ridden as a benchmark / control in the test , it retains its 10/10 and would therefore clearly have won the test outright , which is of course jolly nice to know .
"Seeing as the Ti456 is/was still unchanged and in my opinion the scores and it's position in the Ti hierachy is unaltered (we actually rode one as a control throughout the four way test) though we didn't re include it. "
Lanesra, you just in from the pub?
Why didn't MBUK say that all the bikes where tested "against the 10/10" (which you're not sure has been tested by MBUK/WMB 🙄 )
Sorry the whole thing stinks - Esp after Worlands posts on Bikeradar - you don't confuse emails as to what bike was wanted etc..
All's you have done is prove that Bike mag reviews aren't worth a toss (as others have said before on this thread)
Why is titanium so controversial?
Is that one of the "special" properties people say it has?
ZONE - I have an unbranded Ti frame that is 18 years old and still out rides anything ridden since... and others riders that agree.
I think that I may have ridden this bike....
Seem to remember being called a cheat quite often when I rode it - never been on a bike with such a blend of comfort and effortless pace - the acceleration was startling.
But then some chap wanted it back !! The 19 ti trail that I bought as a replacement is good but just isn't in the same league - probably for all the reasons you mention Zone.
LOL.... @ twosugars
ay up mr.... I'm still on the hunt for a spare for you 😀
Then it's up to you and Mr Benson to get into a bidding war.
I found a couple...one in London... the other Shropshire. neither want to let go ...no matter how much I ask. I'll keep you posted!
Zone
Still waiting for a review of the new (Lancashire) Merlin Rock Lobster Ti.
Same geometry as all the other Merlin frames, but would love to hear about the ride quality.
Anybody tried one?
Hi compositepro, Your in north Sheffield right? 🙂
My Sister lives near Warncliffe woods.... I visit often.
my area of expertise is cycle geometries and bike design... mainly titanium... but for the moment... I'm in the bike trade and I'm a mountain biker as I have been for the last 28 years.
Imagine what fun you could have if someone gave you the choices of many titanium alloys and mainly Beta alloys, working techniques and finishing processes . Then said "what are the inherent problems?"..."now fix them". It's not going to happen very often...unless research is funded due to potential uses in other areas for the finished tube. Bike frames just are not important enough,....sadly
Zone