2005 Z1 FRII's (set to 150mm travel). On compressing the forks they 'bung'/clunk as though there isnt enough oil in them? What would you recommend putting in and what weight oil?
i had the same on my 2004 z1 fr.
just stripped, cleaned and refilled (with a little less oil than was in them). the oil was lack and gloopy so came to the conclusion that the lack of clean oil was probably causing the noises.
back together now and the noise has magically disappeared and my forks are back to better working form.
How did you clean the lowers? What did you use?
just used a cloth and something that wouldnt scratch the insides.
the only bit i couldnt get out on mine were the bits at the very bottom of the lowers. im just trying to find the instructions i used to dismantle them so i can tell you what i couldnt remove. i found that the bolts on the very bottom of the forks needed a machined socket as none of my normal ones would fit over them, hence why i couldnt remove the very bottom bits.
but i left the lowers upside down to drain for most of a day, occassionally cycling them to remove most of the oil. i decided against using any fluids to wash out the oil as i figured i would then need to fihure out how to get rid of that, and if i dodnt then it would probably have reacted with the new oil when i refilled it.
does it make sense? will try and find the instructions i used, hold on a minute
Yes 🙂 Ive also checked with windwave 7.5cwt oil and 155ml's per leg.
think i used 7.5 and 150/ 170 for mine.
these were the instructions i used:
http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id27.html
had to miss out some of the stages from step 15 onwards as didnt have the large socket. i assume yours will look similar inside?
Interestingly http://www.marzocchi.com/template/contenuto.asp?LN=UK&IDFolder=777
Says 40ml (just 40ml! in the left fork leg and 155ml in the right.
Which one is the left leg? as you sit on the bike looking down or standing infront of the bike?
The left is disc side, right is crank side according to their instruction manuals
Thank you guys. Will get to work tonight.
interesting- what do you have in each of the legs on your fork? im wondering if you have an air cartridge in one fork could that be the reason why you only need a small amount of oil in that leg?
left leg is when you are sitting on bike, so for mine, left leg is eta (lock-out). for yours, i think right leg has you rebound and air preload. according to marzocchi, your left leg has nothing special in it, does that sound right? so at the top of your forks there will be a plastic cap that doesn't adjust anything, and under the cap there is no valve for your air preload? on the table for 2005 marzocchis (page 120), it shows that the z1 fr 2 and z1 fr sl both have nothing in the left leg, and from the oil table, both of them have 40ml of oil, so maybe that has something to do with it?
i remember at the time having a few issues with my fork, some things that didnt seem to add up, but all worked out well. it really became obvious when the forks were being stripped down.
ignore the first few sentances, utter rubbish. the rest of it might be of interest though
(From memory)- will double check tonight. One leg has just the air valve in the middle and an other leg (I removed before) the spring and rebound adjust ontop. Also in this leg is a tiny air valve reachable by a small adaptor onto the shockpump.
Previously I opened up just the coil leg, poured out the SILVER (it was metallic silver!) oil - swilled with water- left upside down and added alittle more of 5cwt oil than was already in (measured in a ml increment beaker). So this time I'll use the correct weight oil and try just the coil leg again first.
Additional problem- when I reassembled the coil leg the rebound (gold) adjust was stuck solid. Apparently this can happen with Z1's (?). The cartridge separates from the dial itself so it means reopening and reattaching (I think).
Do they bottom out or not, or is it some other noise?
155ml might be about correct in the right leg, try 140 and see how you get on. The recommendations on the zocchi site are well out, I dont think its possible to physically fit what they were recommending in the fork.
In the FR2's, the right leg has the hscv cart but the left leg has some sort of pumping rod and a spring so theres no need for 155mm of oil in there.
Both sides have air assist but only the right side has the rebound.
I filed down a socket to fit the nuts on the bottom of the fork.
Email me and I can send you the full manual for the forks which have an exploded diagram which is quite useful.
Do they bottom out or not, or is it some other noise?
They bottom out. No noise (well a squelch when you pump the fork!)
Both sides have air assist but only the right side has the rebound.
Yep
Email me and I can send you the full manual for the forks which have an exploded diagram which is quite useful.
Will do.
If I can get away with with just changing the oil in the main cart (I dont have a socket- just a huge adjustable spanner)- then Im happy!
I've got Z1 FR2s and I'm replacing them for this very reason
they are good for about a month after servicing but then start to ramp up loads and have to be serviced again - also it is very hard to get the oil levels right
all that metal in the oil has to come from somewhere...
all that metal in the oil has to come from somewhere...
The innards are causing slight friction with the inside of the lowers? 😯
Watch it with the adjustable, you may **** the top caps up pretty easily.
yep top cap on mine felt a little soft, but used an adjustable on it. you might have a bigger problem using an adjustable on the insides thogh. stage 12 (on my link above) requires you to hold onto one bit which was tricky to get at because of a spring while you undo the top cap. so you will need 2 spanners, or your adjustable spanner and a small profile set of pliers if yours is anything like mine?
in response to brakes argument:
they are good for about a month after servicing but then start to ramp up loads and have to be serviced again
i have had my 2004 z1's for about 3 years and only needed one service a few months ago. just to balance out the argument! very reliable fork for the same price as a lot of the bottom of teh range forks these days, and much much better!
Yeah, thats why i bought mine, cos i knew they wouldnt need servicing every 15 hours
they were very much fit-and-forget, but I think they've got to a level of wear now that the internals need replacing
Some Z1s had the legs swapped round mid year. Mine are opposite sides to those in the manual, confusing until I put it down to being proper Italian quality.
Also, Ive wanged some 15wt in the compression / damper side aswell which makes it better for the Bigger than Average Bear.
Question (before I go and spend money on 5cwt oil). If I reused my 7.5cwt (motorbike fork oil)- how much less approx would you have to put in? Or just go and get some proper oil?
Not sure whether I undertand, the oil heights should be relatively the same regardless of the oil weight. A lower weight oil will basically rebound/compress quicker thats all. If you have too little of either oil in you will still bottom the forks out, if thats what your getting at.
Right opened both sides up. Funnily the oil/40ml (blue spring) side is as new whereas the main leg (yellow spring) is murky grey.
Swapped the spacers round and using a small adjustable spanner holding the nut (thanks for that- it made sense when I moved the spacer down to see it) I undid the top rebound assembly*. Now. Reassembled but- the forks are way too slow on the reboud and the newly refitted gold adjustor wont turn (I asummed it was because I clumsly created a aluminium 'burr' when I slipped with the big adjustable spanner)- that knocked off. The rebound still wont budge. What gives?
Ps. Ive got a nice skin flap-slice down the side of my thumb where I slipped and it filled with lovely oil. Took ages cleaning it (OUCH)
*Just before refitting the top rebound assembly onto the rod I pushed up the central turny-thread thing that then protudes up out for the rebound adjustor to sit on.
Observations? The internals are very very simple but I can't understand why the rebound adjustor wont turn now?!! Thats the issue- how do I make the rebound adjustor work- is there something I need to do/check internally first?
Bakes- your forks were posted today
[url= http://manualer.happymtb.org/marzocchi/2005-z1-fr-2.pdf ]Manual here[/url]
cheers Mark 🙂
I think I had the same problem with the rebound adjuster locking up - it was maybe the nut on the top of the rebound cartridge that I'd overtightened on re-assembly, or maybe the adjuster pin (part 53)
could it be that you have overtightened the rebound bits when reassembling? think they are only finger tight, so if you tightened using the two spanners you could have easily gone too far. only a stab in the dark, but if you have over-tightened it you may have caused the super-slow rebound you say you are experiencing. if you remove the upper stanchions again, you should be able to spin the rebound using the two spanners (i.e. one on top, one underneath the spacer), as if you were taking it to bits again. i suspect that might be where your lack of rebound control is coming from, unless someone else has a better idea?
the other thought for the slow rebound is did you cycle the fork while you were putting the new oil in to remove any air bubbles? maybe a new thread is required to get the tech guys with all the knowledge to fix your new problem, but i think with a bit of fettling you should sort it fairly easily!
Did you disassemble the actual rebound adjuster (top cap)?
My guess is, you turned the rebound screwy rod thing all the way in (full damping) before re assembling the forks (this is ok) but you messed up re assembling the actual gold top cap adjuster properly and hence it wont turn and your rebound is stuck on slow.
No need to take em apart, just sort the gold top cap adjuster out and you should then be able to turn it and take off some rebound damping
I did.so if you tightened using the two spanners you could have easily gone too far
Yep.My guess is, you turned the rebound screwy rod thing all the way in
How!!! I even undid the side grubscrew. Going to have another go tonight. My Sunday ride depends on this 😳just sort the gold top cap adjuster out
if you over tightened the rebound with the two spanners then you are gonna need bruce lee's finger strength to undo it with only the rotational force on the rebound knob, and risk rounding it off.
might take longer and be a bit messier, but i think taking the rebound caps off again is the safest way to prevent more damage imo.
good luck!
Ah, got it. The two plastic spacers. If I take them out completely- it drops the travel to 130 doesnt it.
Nah, you need to take them out and put them in the bottom of the forks (under the cartridges) to reduce the travel
Ah! I thought I was being abit dim last night. I took them out and couldnt figure where they went- so I stuffed both UNDER each spring then felt daft when the forks were still sat at the same height 😆 🙄
Ok, they work! The rebound works! but theres a click when you test-compress the forks on the floor- the spring banging against the side of the leg meaning its not positioned right?
Mine make funny noises all the time, dont really notice it when im riding the bike though. They should be good to go now i reckon.
Right Ive thrown the towel in. The rebound adjustor was just spinning. So opened them up ad the rod had detached inside. Its just done it twice. On another thread someone mentioned it does this periodically. I give up!