[Closed] Man up or get flats?

Get some kneepads and tough it out.

If your not racing switch to flats and work on teh skillz

Stuck with my Time ATAC's. Better the devil you know.

There are flats on my second bike, I ride it about town so want to use 'normal' shoes. Off road I'm used to being clipped in, and I like the feel, and the power delivery.

I'd say stick with the SPD's. But then again I am often wrong.

Been thinking the same recently.
Went almost straight to SPDs when I started mountain biking as I come from a road background but I feel like I am loosing my confidence because I keep getting spooked and clip out.
I am used to the road bike when you can clip out in anticipation, however on the mtb it normally ends with me putting my foot down.
I road at gisburn the other day and felt I would be comfortable on flats, specially as I have a hip condition which prevents me from unclipping my right foot properly, so only the left will come out in a hurry!

That being said I can ride around the whole monkey trail at cannock chase and only have to clip out at the railway crossing.

But I found gisburn much more technical. Or maybe thats my confidence.

No so much man up but build skills

Loosen the SPD's a bit?

Tomhughes - sounds like you found gisburn the same as I did. I've not been to Cannock so it would be interesting to see how I found it.

Took me about a year of being clipped in before I got fully used to being clipped in. I wouldn't switch back to flats as it'll only prolong the process, just crack on at your own pace and one day you'll realise that you've forgotten all about the pedals.

Unfortunately due to a snapped seatpost bolt on my mates bike within about 30mins riding we didn't get to see much of gisburn.
We ended just after the bit where you have a short rockyish tight switchback descent and then a kind of rocky paved drop off, a few turns later you hit a fireroad.
Does that make sense?
So thats were we got to.
I found the first section far rockier, especially on the flats than I was expecting, I got over this ok with the 29er, but didn't feel massively comfortable.

Cannock on the other hand (compared to this short section) has lots of flow!
Flow may be over-rated, but some of the flowing decents at cannock are great, they are mud/gravel as apposed to rocks so you can carry much more speed and be confident in SPDs.
As I say there is only one occasion at cannock that you have to put your foot down.
Forest of Dean is the same, never a need to put your foot down.

What I will do is choose my bike/pedals carefully. Bouncy bike and flats unless I go to somewhere like cannock when I know I can use SPDs happily.

I can get out of my Look 4x4s (like eggbeaters) real quick - I would rather ride clipped into them than not.

Time Atacs would be another option, and both those designs float better and clear mud better than spds, minimising the chance of getting stuck in them.

There are big benefits to pedalling efficiency if using clipless and you will lose a lot of that if you go flat.

Flats. The risk with starting on clips is that you won't build correct technique. Leelikesbikes.com and bikejames.com for in depth info!

"correct" technique ?? Where do I read this Bible ??

I switch back and fourth, if you're just playing around in the woods then flats would build up your confidence, get some proper sticky soles, makes a big difference, you will probably gash your shins or calves at some point, if you're munching the xc miles and climbs then spds are the way to go.

There are big benefits to pedalling efficiency if using clipless and you will lose a lot of that if you go flat.

This isn't really true - when you're knackered you can pull as well as push but it's only useful for brief periods and isn't 'efficient' because the human leg is very weak at pulling compared to pushing. You will gain more pedalling efficiency from developing good technique offroad on flats and then switching to clips. For a relative beginner clips cover up poor technique just as fixed wheels do. Get it right with flats and freewheels first!

"correct" technique ?? Where do I read this Bible ??

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0974566039

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0736083715

Clips are great but not if you're reliant on them to hold you on the bike! Most aren't but why risk developing bad habits?

Bad habits??........bad troll.

You will gain more pedalling efficiency from developing good technique offroad on flats and then switching to clips

Bad habits??........bad troll.

If you can do the following on flats you will be a much better rider when on clips than if you're relying on being clipped in to keep your feet on the pedals and allow you to pull on the pedals:

1. Smoothly spin really fast for longer periods.
2. Spin super fast for sprints.
3. Stomp really hard at low cadence on steep climbs.
4. Continue pedalling over really bumpy sections without losing your feet.
5. Be confident and balanced on fast rough downhills.
6. Unweight the bike over bumps/obstacles
7. Bunnyhop confidently over obstacles.

Flats are way more rad.

Flats to learn how to ride and then make your choice.

I used to ride clipped in and switched back to flats. I definitely learned bad habits from SPDs - you pull the bike around rather than shifting your weight correctly. Especially with jumps/drops.

I thought that this was going to be a thread about tubeless vs tubes.

I am moving to flats and have not had any major issues so far. I still have clips for the long 40-50 mile plus rides. I think I have become lazy with the feet being clipped in and that is why I am moving back to flats.

I'm considering going flats on my road and cross bike. Personally, I much prefer them.

I reckon the OP has probably set his mtb up like his road bike. Common mistake for roadies coming to mtb's the saddle is set for efficient pedalling whilst sat down for hours on end. This can make techy/rocky sections very unnerving as the saddle is conspiring to remove you from the bike but as you are clipped in...Even if you unclip it makes the situation worse because the saddle is so high and you are unbalanced. The OP needs to just lower his saddle by about 1/2 an inch or so than he is used to on his road bike. Then just build up his off road skills gradually. Fitting flats won't transform you into a trail god, you'll just be forever putting a foot down until you gain confidence. I can't stand riding with flats, I occasionally ride our Kona Ute to the shops which has flats, aggravating as my feet are always slipping around and bouncing off, and thats with potholes on the road never mind offroad!

Man-up [i]and[/i] get flats.

I don't buy in to the benefits of either as this is an issue of preference more than anything else imo.

Buy some Wellgos for a tenner and try them.

If your foot leaves the bike you lose a point of contact.

Once you do that you start to lose some control.

Try to maintain control by staying connected to the bike, of course its tempting with flats to stick your foot out. With SPD's the temptation is much less.

I occasionally ride our Kona Ute to the shops which has flats, aggravating as my feet are always slipping around and bouncing off, and thats with potholes on the road never mind offroad!

Ah yes, but off road you'd have pedals with pins and sticky sticky soled shoes.

I have Five Tens and Nano pedals... and less float than my OH who rides with trail SPDs.

most road riders that try mtb are shockingly bad at it for the first few 1000 miles or so...

just get used to falling off.. a lot.. riding flats or spd's 😀

I occasionally ride our Kona Ute to the shops which has flats, aggravating as my feet are always slipping around and bouncing off, and thats with potholes on the road never mind offroad!

That neatly proves my point. You're exhibiting poor pedalling and foot technique - your clips are allowing you to get away with this on the MTB but I guarantee you'd ride better if you had good foot technique. When you're riding fast on rough stuff then sticky shoes and grippy pedals are valuable but you don't need them - I regularly ride a plastic pedalled BMX on and offroad with any old shoes and never lose my feet.

I would say try a good set of flats.

I changed to flats three months ago after years of spds. It was a bit of an experiment but also to try and improve skills and make regular club rides more interesting.

I'm a convert now. My riding has improved and after some initial shin mangling I feel more much happier on techy trails. I put the spds on for events or fast rides and they feel great, but only because I've got better at riding. They paper over flaws in your technique basically.

you pull the bike around rather than shifting your weight correctly. Especially with jumps/drops.

Not sure I understand why this is a bad habit, its just another way of doing something. Surely the fact you can do that indicates being clipped gives you greater control over bike positioning, a good thing I would have thought.

I took a long time to get comfortable with spd’s off road.

I would switch to flats for more techy / hard routes then swap back to spd for commuting and the local stuff. I think riding both gives you a good appreciation of what skills you do/don’t have.

Brake-neck - Member

you pull the bike around rather than shifting your weight correctly. Especially with jumps/drops.

Not sure I understand why this is a bad habit, its just another way of doing something. Surely the fact you can do that indicates being clipped gives you greater control over bike positioning, a good thing I would have thought.

Didn't you know flat-pedal riders are superior to spd-users... 😉

Not sure I understand why this is a bad habit, its just another way of doing something. Surely the fact you can do that indicates being clipped gives you greater control over bike positioning, a good thing I would have thought.

It makes sense if you look at the physics of it. When you push against the pedals you're pushing against the ground, therefore you can apply high force for long duration. When you pull against the pedals what are you pulling against? Essentially nothing! All you're doing is pulling against your own inertia - your body wants to fall (gravity!) and you can't pull against the sky. You can take advantage of the clipped pull to ride lighter over roots where you haven't had a chance to preload and lighten with standard technique, so there are benefits, but in most situations everything should be done through pushing, not pulling.

Some people can ride flats having used clips for years and years and be absolutely fine on them. Many take some time to adapt because they're having to correct their technique - but when those riders go back to clips they ride better because they've improved a really fundamental skill.

Didn't you know flat-pedal riders are superior to spd-users...

Superior riders are better than inferior riders - doesn't matter what pedals they're using at that moment! If you only ever drove cars with ABS and traction control you'd be more likely to have poor pedal control than someone who's also used to driving without those aids. Those aids will make you faster but being able to cope without those aids means you'll still be faster with them. Free your mind and your ass will follow, as GC said...

SPDs but loosen them off a little bit.

I rode flats always on MTB. Then I switched to SPDs recently and I'm riding so much better.

I think people are right though, learn on flats then take your skills to spd.

errrp.. I have just dug out the dusty box containing the SPD pedals from the back of the shelf.. 😕

after 25 years, it is time..

When you push against the pedals you're pushing against the ground, therefore you can apply high force for long duration. When you pull against the pedals what are you pulling against? Essentially nothing!

No - you are pushing/pulling against the torque of the chain to the back sprocket - just as when you pull your foot horizontally back and push it across at the top of the stroke.

Rather than pulling your foot up most people talk of driving your knees forward towards the bars, and the pull back bit to scraping dog sh1t off the bottom of your shoe.

With good flats and flat, grippy soles you can do most of that but the pulling up/driving knee forward bit won't work, hence clipless will be a more efficient as you are able to put some energy in that crank in that part of the stroke.

I wasn't referring to pedalling, I was referring to loading/unloading the bike - i.e. pumping, jumping, hopping etc.

Yeah I think for the Op it's not that SPDs are bad, far from it, it's just that if he's finding them distracting change to flats. Not only will it be one less thing to worry about it will probably help improve his skills. In the future try them again.

Also, if you're coming from a road back ground your fitness is going to be pretty good so the slight penalty in climbing / spinning of using flats will be less of an issue.

To clarify:

It makes sense if you look at the physics of it. When you push against the pedals TOGETHER you're pushing against the ground, therefore you can apply high force for long duration. When you pull against the pedals TOGETHER what are you pulling against? Essentially nothing! All you're doing is pulling against your own inertia - your body wants to fall (gravity!) and you can't pull against the sky. You can take advantage of the clipped pull to ride lighter over roots where you haven't had a chance to preload and lighten with standard technique, so there are benefits, but in most situations everything should be done through pushing, not pulling.

chiefgrooveguru - Member

Didn't you know flat-pedal riders are superior to spd-users...

Superior riders are better than inferior riders - doesn't matter what pedals they're using at that moment!

Agreed - don't get what your point is tho'.

Agreed - don't get what your point is tho'.

Exactly the same point I'd make for hardtail vs full-sus, dropper posts vs not, 26 vs 29, and all the other stupid cliquey clichés which get trotted out on a regular basis...

Another clips vs flats thread, and the same b..ox spoken.

I should have realised I'd split opinion with this one...I wasn't looking at it from an efficiency angle, just interested to hear thoughts on how people found it to build skill with either option.

There's definitely something in the setup differences as has been said - I quickly realised I needed to lower my seat etc. I also think tomd is right about spd's possibly being a distraction, i.e unclipping when I think there's a chance of coming off.

I also think tomd is right about spd's possibly being a distraction, i.e unclipping when I think there's a chance of coming off.

There are lots of opinions on this thread (not much science).

Read them all with an open mind.

Then....put your foot on a flat pedal, wiggle it a bit, lift it up.
Then....put your foot on an SPD, wiggle it a bit, lift it up.

The result will enable you to decide what sort to use for the riding you want to do.

just interested to hear thoughts on how people found it to build skill with either option.

You dont need to build skill anymore. Just got on a mtb course, its all you need, and it gives you a license to spout rubbish on a cycling forum.

Id say tough it out. Try not to unclip so often. Maybe loosen em of a bit. Flats will just make you dab more often. If you are after improving your skills like hopping and jumpin I'd say put some flats on in a car park and hop some bricks or bottles. Even better get a bmx or cruiser.

Started from the same point as the OP. But I installed the Shimano flat/spd combo pedals, M324. Flat when it looks tetchy and spd for the climbs. I've now graduated to full double sided as I feel my skills have improved. In fact I now feel nervous not clipped in. And the kids use the combo pedals for commuting on their road bikes in their school shoes.

Try them, a great confidence builder.

I'd man up and keep spd's , takes far more balls to ride sketchy, techy stuff clipped in, plus more confidence.

I ride both by the way 🙂 In winter when it's claggy and slippery, and the millions of roots in my local woods have a thin coating of ice, I'll be in flats , but then I'm a wuss 🙂

- well,

I took the spd box down from the shelf, and got as far as taking the pedals out of the box and looking for the pedal spanner..

But then as usual, I thought 'hang on, if it ain't broke don't fix it..'
so I put them back on the shelf in the box to gather dust for another decade or two..
During this evenings ride however, a bit of play developed in the left of my trusty wellgo mg1s.. and by the time I got home at dusk, there was an audible creak and a crackle..

it must be a sign..

So I'm going to put the funny little roadie pedals on and I'm going to learn to cheat

Brake-neck - Member

Not sure I understand why this is a bad habit, its just another way of doing something. Surely the fact you can do that indicates being clipped gives you greater control over bike positioning, a good thing I would have thought.

It just comes down to whether you're working with the bike, or not. If you ride through a rough section and you're just being held onto the bike by the SPDs (ie, you'd bounce off without them) then the side effect is that you're putting extra loads into the bike- pulling it around with you, and making it work harder. If you let yourself get kicked, you effectively kick the bike.

Whereas if you're not relying on your pedals to attach you- ie you're on flats, or you're on SPDs and riding dare I say it a bit better- then you'll flow along with the bike rather than against it, and give everything an easier time, staying more in control. If you let yourself get kicked, well, good chance you crash- so you learn not to get kicked.

This isn't a "flats skill" or anything like that, but it's a skill you pretty much have to learn if you ride flats, whereas with SPDs you can get away with it a bit more. Just like good smooth spinning isn't an SPD skill but people are probably more likely to end up as pedal mashers if they only ever ride flats.

Course, if it works for you then that's fine but there might be better ways to do it.

Anyway- in conclusion- ride what you like, riding bikes is good. But if you're into analysing your riding or looking for ways to improve, then trying the other pedal type can be interesting. And for the OP, if you feel SPDs are holding you back then yes maybe try flats, or maybe work through it on SPDs, they're both good.

One of each,best of both worlds.Or double sided sticky tape on the bottom of your Dunlop green flash.
I miss TJ.