[Closed] Long slack 27.5 hardtail frame that's reasonably light? Accept 160mm forks

Bit lighter, though I'd prefer to get a Soul and change the travel on the fork...

https://www.bird.bike/product/zero-am-frameset/

I was going to say the new Zero AM too.

Cheers, don't really like them... they seem a bit "Taiwanese bike book"

I agree FWIW, not the Taiwanese thing but not a fan of the look of chunky alu HTs generally.

Can you get the new Nukeproof Scout 275 in frame only? Elliot Heap seems to put a 170mm Lyrik on his so I can't see why 160mm would be an issue.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/scoutin-about-nukeproof-video-2017.html

[img] [/img]

1580g in a M

https://www.stantonbikes.com/product/switchback-631-next-gen/

http://dartmoor-bikes.com/hardware/enduro-trail/primal-275-0

But:
Max. tire size: 27.5x2.4" (see spec)
is not correct. Fits max 27.5x2.3"

160 mm fork o.k.
Quality is fine. Price very low. Weight is o.k..

Personally like the Dartmoor Hornet downhill hardtail. Heavy so and really only for downhill use...

Primal 27.5 an "o.k. bike". Nothing special.
If you have used 27.5 inch parts a good way of getting a "new" bike.

I ride my hornet everywhere - the frame is a little heavy, but only about 1.5lbs more than that liteville, so can still be built into a lightish bike if desired..

If your pockets are deep enough, a Ti Switchback? Mine was pretty light even wit Yari's up front.

If a Kingdom Ti frame takes your fancy, talk to [url= https://www.reallygoodbikes.co.uk/ ]Adam.[/url]

[img] [/img]

Mmm very nice!
Maybe one of those moxies?

my old post:

Personally like the Dartmoor Hornet downhill hardtail. Heavy so and really only for downhill use...

post from 5lab:

I ride my hornet everywhere

Thinking about it... - yes - if hardtail frame from Dartmoor then the Hornet:
http://dartmoor-bikes.com/hardware/enduro-trail/hornet-1

Although:

but only about 1.5lbs more than that liteville

Guess the Liteville HT frame is three times the Hornet price?

Liteville: does the HT Liteville fit 160 mm forks?

Fits suspension forks from 100 to 160 mm travel

Is there some mechanism to compensate for the change in BB height? It's gonna be compromised somewhere surely?

PP shan?

Not particularly lightweight though

PP shan?

Great, great (downhill?) bike!
The perfect HT for a 160 mm fork...

Same high price tag like Liteville HT frame?

But if I had the money and had to choose between a Liteville HT aluminium frame and a Shan steel frame I would go for the Shan.

I'm after a new HT frame. I think Airdrop have something in the pipeline so I'm holding off to see what that is.

Shan is heavy, Dartmoor is a bit "Taiwanese bike book" like the Birds imho.

That kingdom is stunning but way over budget, I'm thinking £600 tops really.

I'll have a look at Stanton, aren't they usually a bit short? I've not looked at one in a long while.

Will check out Liteville too, thanks!

As I said in another thread, if you want something like a BFe but lighter it'll need to be alloy, titanium or carbon.

If your pockets are deep enough, a Ti Switchback?

Sorry quick highjack/shameless plug. Probably selling my Mk1 frame as my back has gone again.

Stanton Switchback comes in a regular and long version, you've not mentioned your height but some stats are:

18" Regular Switchback - 425mm reach / 578mm Actual top tube
18" Long Switchback - 444mm reach / 600mm Actual top tube

Frames do cost £699 though

EDIT: If website info is to be believed the Switchback is a little heavier than the Shan

Mine is a 16.5" MK1, so no long versions. It's Ti so 3.8lbs.

I have not read the other suggestions,but definitely look at the Pipedream moxie.

That pipedream looks great, does any one run one with 650 wheels and 2.4 or 2.5 tyres?
Thanks

Steveh the pipedream isnt available just yet hopefully by end of January though.
But yes you will be able to run 2.4/2.5 tyres easily as it’s made to run plus tyres up to 2.8.
It has sliding drop outs so you can fine tune it for normal,plus 27.5 wheels and also 29ers to.

I have the same fork and went for a Ragley Mmmbop. Long and slack with great geometry.

Long and slack you say?

[img] [/img]

+1 for the Mmmbop. Absolutely love mine. So much fun. Slack and long, very competent going up or down. Also light. Tough to get hold of, Ragley sold through rapidly.

Wanted to order a Mmmbop.

But it's sold out.

Got a message from Andy (Ragley) that they redesign the Mmmbop right now and Andy hopes to have new frames available late spring or summer 2018.

Means patience! I will try to get the Mmmbop as winter project 2018/2019...

Had a Bluepig for a bit, didn’t like it much. Heavy and dead. I wonder what they have in mind for next years mmmbop?

Morf since no one else has said it

Isn't the Morf designed for 130mm forks?

I built a friend an NS Eccentric Alu. Looks lovely, ride well. Also hard to source!

[url= https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ENex-9EtDOUiBo4s1iizTh1RJ7qAMUER/view?usp=drivesdk ]mmmbop[/url]

[url= https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BZti8JKuIZLsyDddYx7m-AGjRR4esP-4/view?usp=drivesdk ]Eccentric[/url]

Above two guandax-posts Mmmbop and Eccentric:
neat bikes!

The Mmmbop with the mudhugger front and rear looks like a real work-horse...

Fun.

Mondraker vantage.

[img] [/img]

Super fun slack stable bike.

Mondraker vantage:

Super fun slack stable bike.

Older post from guandax:

Had a Bluepig for a bit, didn’t like it much. Heavy and dead. I wonder what they have in mind for next years mmmbop?

Update Mmmbop: Andy from Ragley didn't explain what exactly they plan to change - he only informed me about the schedule.

Bluepig:

heavy and dead

Batman11 - what does it do to B.B. height? Looking at the numbers would be very low with stock 27.5 wheels?

Mondraker Vantages are great bikes, and they have the benefit of having a +size version too - but they are NOT light!
I suggest the Sonder Transmitter.
Read Bike Radar's 5* review.
Long, slack, available in alloy or carbon, and not expensive.
Can take a 160mm fork.

I think the Sonder is great but optimised for 140mm so at 160mm you end up with 64/72 deg. EDIT : actually it's optimised for 130mm so even worse.

I would suggest a 2018 Commencal Meta HT:

- optimised for 160mm
- 148mm boost/+
- light(ish)
- internal routing for all cables/hose
- 65deg / 74deg are great numbers at 160mm travel IME

[url= http://preview.ibb.co/dNvpEb/comme.jp g" target="_blank">http://preview.ibb.co/dNvpEb/comme.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Commencal Meta HT

Good pick!
Some really hate Commencal - I don't know why.

I think they are really good in aluminium bikes.
And all the reviews I remember of the Meta HT: a blast!

Pic of my Mondraker Vantage with 160mm Yari forks - awesome bike (wish I hadn't sold it now!!!!)

[url=[url= https://s26.postimg.org/52bosmyv9/mondraker.jp g" target="_blank">https://s26.postimg.org/52bosmyv9/mondraker.jp g"/> [/img][/url]]Mondraker[/url]

The Mmmbop with the mudhugger front and rear looks like a real work-horse...

It gets 3 singletrack rides a week in all weathers and mostly in the dark (at the mo). A hose down (if lucky) and chain clean between. It's been brilliant. Hope hubs, Yaris and Shimano everywhere else - bullet proof.

Workhorse it certainly is.

My full-suss never leaves stable any longer. May put it out to grass soon

I suggest the Sonder Transmitter

I've got 160mm pikes on the Bird Zero AM I built up as my winter steed. I highly recommend that combo. It just feels right.

Meta HT ticks most boxes but falls down on the long requirement.

Bird zero AM would be my choice for a long slack agro HT, geometry is spot on.

The answer to this used to always be "A Chameleon" what's happened to that now?

The answer to this used to always be "A Chameleon" what's happened to that now?

It's a 29er. And not as slack as some.

Think the OP might need to get over his aversion to the Bird, if he's serious about wanting a light-ish frame.

Orange Crush states maximum 150mm fork, but the BB isn't particularly high so could probably risk 160mm (or just change the air shaft).

Steveh to be fair I’ve not really looked at it from that point of view! But yes it will defo dump the bb down pretty low I recon lol.
Luckily I’ve just picked up a great deal on some Easton arc45 rims and had them built on Hope hubs! So I’m going plus size to start with and I also have a set of hope/stans flow 3 29er wheels in the shed that will go on if I fancy trying them. Also I did the original package offer of frame and DVO forks which was good.

Meta HT ticks most boxes but falls down on the long requirement.

The 2018 Meta is probably long enough actually now, or at least it is for me. I certainly wouldn't call it short. Actually, I would call it long.

But reach is still 30mm "behind" the Bird despite both gaining and the gap shrinking.

There must be a sweetspot somewhere - I have the old Meta and I wouldn't have wanted it to grow more than 30mm - it becomes a little lazy in tight single tracks otherwise.

post from guandax / RAGLEY Mmmbop:

It gets 3 singletrack rides a week in all weathers and mostly in the dark (at the mo). A hose down (if lucky) and chain clean between. It's been brilliant. Hope hubs, Yaris and Shimano everywhere else - bullet proof.
Workhorse it certainly is.
My full-suss never leaves stable any longer. May put it out to grass soon

The Shan isn't heavy, it's fine. Might be heavier than some frames but it's not heavy..

I was riding mine today and then had a shot on one of those Kingdom Ti Vendetta 29ers belonging to a mate. The Shan is noticeably 'comfier' in the trail buzz stakes.

If not a Shan, what about an Oka.
I ran mine with 150mm forks and it was great. Can't see 160mm making much difference.

New P7?

https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/p7-frame/2018

Says optimised for 150mm so I imagine you could squeeze in 160mm. Love my 2017 bike, loads of fun. Possibly no lighter than a Bfe though but I can't imagine many 160mm'ers will be by their very nature?

The Shan isn't heavy, it's fine.

A friend of mine has a Shan. He loves the bike.
But was an expenisive adventure - think he ended up for the complete bike for around 3 k ...
He uses the Shan for downhill only.

Got a yari 160 on the vantage, and my bike is pretty light with the components I have. You can pick up used frames pretty cheap on ebay.

[img] [/img]

The 2018 Meta is probably long enough actually now, or at least it is for me. I certainly wouldn't call it short. Actually, I would call it long.

Ah didn't realise the Meta had grown for 2018. Maybe another 20mm and I'd call it long 😉

The P7 is pretty spot on, but without actually checking the frame weight I assume it falls down on the light requirement.

Ah didn't realise the Meta had grown for 2018. Maybe another 20mm and I'd call it long

The P7 is pretty spot on, but without actually checking the frame weight I assume it falls down on the light requirement.

True, and on 160mm it would only be 6mm in reach longer than the Meta so still not within your "long enough" window. 😉

The Shan isn't heavy, it's fine. Might be heavier than some frames but it's not heavy..

If a bike builds to less than 35lbs I'd say it's fine. But if someone says a 5.6lbs frame is too heavy then I think it's safe to assume they want something that's lighter than that - which the Shan isn't.

True, and on 160mm it would only be 6mm in reach longer than the Meta so still not within your "long enough" window.

I was looking at a medium (my size) where there is a 20mm difference, as there is with the small, but yeah the large and XL frames are much closer in reach.

Indeed, although you're down to a 15mm gap on a M if you stick a 160mm on the P7 up from the optimised 150mm.

That commencal is a contender, anyone know where they are made?

That commencal is a contender, anyone know where they are made?

Not "knowing" - just guesswork: think it's originally a french company. Now they operate from Andorra?
For the bike design they team up with professional downhill bikers and tweak and tune the prototypes until they are happy.
One guy who might have been involved in the Meta HT design:
Cédric Gracia. He was involved in the design of the Shan (for PP) as well.
Means: prototypes made in EU?
Production aluminium frames made in Asia?
Assembly in France?
Cédric Gracia is one of the bikers which always tried to push the bike design ahead. In the direction of "long & slag". Guess all Commencal bikes still gain from that.

That commencal is a contender, anyone know where they are made?

They are made in TW which will tell you very little. Most hardtails are made there anyway as they have some of the best welders and QC, not surprising seeing how much of the premium frame market share they have.

The welds on my 17 Meta are superb.

More info about the ethos of the company here https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Breaking-the-Rules-An-Interview-with-Max-Commencal,1866

Max started Commencal out of Andorra in 2000 after having founded and led SUNN, in the Pyrennees too. He is a great guy.

Pyrennees

Excellent mountain bike area as well...
If you ever like to have mountains "just for you": go to Aragon area!
Absolut realiable good (hot!) weather summer and great, great area.

made in TW which will tell you very little. Most hardtails are made there anyway as they have some of the best welders and QC

guess that's right.

Thanks for the input. They are the right price too.

How do I sneak one through the door without the Mrs realising?

Great!
Had a glance on their web site as well. The frame is in "winter sale" right now. That's fantastic!
Wouldn't wait with the order for too long - you never know how many frames of your size they still have in stock...

Mrs

If you order the frame in the "right" color everything will be fine...

Anyone know if I'll have to.pay import tax ordering direct from commencal in Andorra?

No you wont

No you wont

Correct.
Andorra is a strange country, has the Euro, but doesn't belong to the EU and for industrial goods: free trade with EU!

No problem so.

Hey. I saw someone mention me in an earlier post - I run the UK side of things for Kingdom. If you're after a 160mm proper trail hardtail, we offer the X2 version - titanium, 65.5 HA, 460 Reach (large), 423 chainstays and you can drop in any wheel size (27, 2.8 plus and 29s). If you want to try one out I'm based near Forest of Dean.

Hi, I presume you're Adam? They are absolutely stunning matey and if this wasn't an exercise in "I've got a set of forks that are too good to sell for peanuts so I'll build another bike" I'd have one in a heartbeat!

Way overbudget though, looking at these has got me considering selling two of my hardtail bikes and just having one though based in those frames.

I've noticed you've not got any of the normal ti x2 ones in stock, any idea when they'll be back in?

Evening chilled76, I'm Adam. I sold my last X2 frame 2 days ago. £900 for an X2 Frame means they sell out within the week we put them on sale. We only do small production runs, but if you're keen I can source you one for Feb, possibly end of Jan.

In my opinion the X2 is a great balance of geo- allowing you the option to ride steep tech, to longer more xc trails too.

The full custom frames at £1575 offer you carte blanc to get the perfect bike, whereas the X2 model offers great value with a sorted, modern geo.