Ventured out on to a certain area tonight that I've been avoiding due to knowing how badly it can suffer during prolonged bad weather. Was pretty gutted to see it in such a state. I'd say it's seen a lot more traffic of late than it has on past years. I appreciate our sport is probably really in its hey day at the moment but one thing I did notice is a fair amount of straight lining some of the riders have been doing. Gone are some of the lovely swoopy sections, replaced with straight lines of churned up mud. Could the increased use be strava related as well as popularity, I certainly think some of the straight lining could be kom wannabes!
more likely just a case of selfish people who ride places when the conditions are not suitable.
Can't comment without seeing pics - but nobody's going to be getting a KOM in churned-up mud.
What chakaping says. Plus far more likely that people are straight lining corners to keep upright.
Rule 1 of bike club is that if a corner can be cut there will always be someone who cuts it. Then once they've left their tyre tracks someone else will follow, then another and another until it looks like a normal line.
I think there will be problems up there soon if we're barking up the same tree. Massive amount of erosion and as you say loads of straight lining on the corners making the trails wider and wider. Probably not a major issue when you look at what they've done as a consequence of tree harvesting, but still looks bad and doesn't give a good impression. As you say it's getting hammered at the moment, the cows seem pretty indifferent though.
but nobody's going to be getting a KOM in churned-up mud.
This^^ ,people did used to ride in winter before smart phones were invented.
Where about are you talking about anyway as I think I'm fairly local to you Wrightyson?
I went out today on a trail I used to ride in the dry. I found it completely mashed, walkers and horses! Lumpy, bumpy, puddles, ruts etc, only a couple of tyre lines.
Yes trambler the place where the cows reside. I noticed on the drive home they've tried to put a fence up on the piece of grass where folks cut up from spite winter to avoid the **** who lives by the footpath, that's subsequently been ragged to the ground. I also noticed that the gate at the bottom has been ragged a bit too.
Ssboggy I'm on about the area between wussa and Cromford where the cows live.
Yes, thought that was where you meant.
Less people use strava than you think TBH.
It's probably just idiots
I went out today on a trail I used to ride in the dry. I found it completely mashed, walkers and horses! Lumpy, bumpy, puddles, ruts etc, only a couple of tyre lines.
Always amuses me hearing mountain bikers complain about horses and walkers churning up the trails making them lumpy and bumpy.
small island + 65 million people + more money + free time = increased pressure on the countryside. It is only going to get worse 🙁
It's been 2 bad winters in a row for my local trails, I think traffic is actually down (just an impression) but lots of damage. I'm just blaming the weather tbh, long wet spells and not many dry. Lots of braiding and widening but again that's not strava, that's just traffic.
OTOH some wee bits of trailwork I did do seem to have paid off in a couple of places, just nudges blocking some lines and narrowing others... I used to be subtle about this and try and make it look natural but I never really felt it worked, I've an inkling now that being really unsubtle plants the idea "obviously someone really doesn't want me to cut this corner, I'll not cut the others either" and also takes away "Oh no, a branch has fallen on this line, I'll remove it..."
At GT where I do a fair bit of organised work, we spend a depressing amount of time blocking shortcuts or sometimes formaliisng lines of desire, twas ever thus but it's worse now and I do blame strava****s for some of it. On the green route ffs!
I didn't know that straight lining corners was frowned upon so badly by so many people, is this hallowed ground or something? Is this a relatively new phenomenon? Brought about bu STRAVA?
You would think that folk would encourage or even embrace the fact that an app can inspire so many people to compete in their own little world, getting outdoors keeping fit enjoying the social aspect, meanwhile in some one else's world the wheels have fallen off because some **** has straight lined a corner, I've probably already said too much BUT I'd just like to add the following, if riders are finding their own lines it's either because the trails not been built properly or they are or have been racing as in "racing line"
If you want to ride in straight lines, stick to bloody fire roads, single track is supposed to be twisty, cutting corners just means you dont have the skills to ride tight stuff fast.
Cannock cheeky has been mauled this winter by big groups riding trails that most folks leave to over winter. It just gives riders a bad name and creates more conflict with other users, when every path is like the somme.
main issue with stravassholes is not folks racing for times, but the fact it opens up trails to those that don't have the local knowledge.
im with gandalf on this. " keep it secret, keep it safe"
Water table been high/ soil moisturehas been high across big swathes of country for 2 consecutive winters now. Erosions is easier.....you can see it in the trails, but also in the road surfaces too where there's a huge number of potholes, also a few reports of landslips every few months...it's all the same thing. We need a long dry Mint Sauce style summer to start to dry things out properly, not just superficially in the top few Millimetres.
It
Its been mild, I think there have only been a handful of rides this winter where the ground has been frozen, so the trails will suffer.
small island + 65 million people + more money + free time = increased pressure on the countryside. It is only going to get worse
+1
, if riders are finding their own lines it's either because the trails not been built properly or they are or have been racing as in "racing line"
And here in lies the problem. These trails I'm talking about are cheeky paths that have been there for countless years, not dug and armoured by a team. As tazzy says, I reckon it's lack of skill or too much speed that basically forces you off the true line. Hopefully you don't ride our local stuff with that attitude as if you and others keep doing so we're going to get big swathes of it made it as inaccessible as possible by the land owners.
Some of my favourite stuff is wrecked. I've been leaving it all winter but what were once hard to spot drop ins and exits are now muddy and obvious. They're not armoured but I was riding some of them 20 years ago.
Thanks to some enduros that used them they're being battered on a weekly basis, issue being they used to recover now they're not and are getting worse. They just can't take the heavy traffic. New wider sections are being ridden and cut up.
Fortunately the organisers are moving the enduros down the valley this year.
A subject close to my heart and certainly the same where I ride. There are a couple of trails that didnt even exist before I cut them through. They're soft in the winter and off camber, and I knew they wouldn't carry much traffic, but there they are, on the strava heat map and mashed to **** on the ground too.
Less people use strava than you think TBH.It's probably just idiots
That made me spit my weetabix out laughing 😆
(although calling people who use strava idiots is maybe a little harsh)
I'm still trying to work out if I'm in the minority an idiot or both 😀
Depends on the location really, as North wind points out, Glentress is in a really bad way in places from people trying to cut off switchbacks, etc. A lot of that is in the climbs too, so not just straight lining for the 'racing line.'
We rejoice when bikes have greater traction for climbing and can descend previously unattemptably steep terrain. It's little surprise lines are changing as bikes evolve.
As Tazzy says anyone who respects the trails sticks to those that drain well in the worst weather or just avoids them altogether.
The problem with Strava is that it allows the t0$$ers to find trails with little to no effort. If you value your trails keep them off Strava.
small island + 65 million people + more money + free time = increased pressure on the countryside. It is only going to get worse+1
65,000,001?
I appreciate our sport is probably really in its hey day at the moment
Are you serious? Everyone riding trail centres instead of exploring, more component/bike standards than you can assimilate etc.
1995 was the zenith.
I like riding in mud.
I will leave it at that.
Grapevine reports that there's a cheeky enduros event at gt today. Apparently not all on official trails.
Is this the reason we can't have good stuff?
Yeh it doesn't take that much traffic, bike Walker or horse to turn a wet trail into a boggy mess.
There's a few near me that are literally impassable at the moment, unless you enjoy wading through swamps and loosing your shoes to the swamp God.
Some trails just need to be allowed to recover and drain a bit after lots of rain.
Something I noted from some trail builder posts / blogs is good builds involve subtle blocking off the shortcut options or when changing the line, using natural resources around so it just doesn't look like there's any possible line that way.
I've noticed even on official trails like the new section of Summer Lightning there's a load of short cutting all the roll downs and bomb holes. Okay there are puddles in some of them at the moment, but that's what you sign up for if you ride mountain bikes in Britain.
a few years ago people would post here to ask for guides to areas and it doesn't seem to happen much these days. as someone who has guided other forum users, if it were wet, i might point out a trail and say 'but we're leaving that alone today else it'll get trashed'. if someone goes exploring with strava they don't get that. they might pour in to a trail and think 'this is a bogging mess' but they'll probably just plow on.
there are shortcut lines that get opened up now and then at our local spot, and i do wonder if the motivation is to retake that KOM. i wonder if you've got someone sponsored, who can use strava to show they're training and getting quicker, if that is the reason behind what i find from time to time. the stuff i fine is probably going to give you a couple of seconds, and i'd imagine that's pretty tempting to some.
Likewise, years ago someone showed me a lot of the cheeky trails locally, all very much "local trails for local people" 😉 kind of stuff and stressed the rule that all the locals use about keeping off certain bits in the wet as the soil there doesn't cope well (or it's chalk/clay etc) and also a lot of "don't publish this trail" as it's sensitive/cheeky etc.
All that's gone out the window and the places are swarming now all the year and whatever the weather, along with a lot of digging despite rangers and landowners trashing and blocking off.
Though I'm not a believer in the American rule of just not riding at all in the wet. I'd never ride in this country if I followed that rule. There are plenty of trails which cope okay in the wet. Doesn't have to be sticking to hard pack trail centres. It's just where it's getting clearly over ridden and swampy, maybe it's time to leave it for a bit, but people keep riding it.
I just think spread the load and try different areas for a bit, explore new.
Still though, never resort to the road bike because it's too wet off road 😉
I don't think you can necessarily blame Strava, it is only a tool after all.
Yes people are using it to discover new trails, and then riding them when they're too wet and trashing them. But then you can only really blame a new generation of MTBers brought up on all-weather trail-centres, who then don't have the awareness not to ride less hardy stuff when they start to move up in skill levels and explore more 'natural' trails.
I don't think it's really down to people looking for trails they see on Strava. There is some of that going on (I do it myself, discretely if necessary), but the main hordes of people are down to massive increase in popularity of mountain biking and social media talking places up.
Peaslake end of Surrey Hills is a classic example. Wasn't so long ago that while there were a fair amount of riders about it was about as busy as it is during the week days. Now it's heaving. A lot of people go there first time having heard about it from friends or read posts about it. All the time I see posts asking about the trails there.
Plus there's a boost from certain locally based magazine staff who promote the trails, including those that are illegal (most of them in Surrey Hills), complete with guides and maps.
And then there are YouTube and pinkbike videos followed by comments "where's that?", and someone eventually describes it.
Infamous jump trail in Surrey Hills built not so long ago had sign up saying not to advertise it or post videos of it, but sure enough that's what happened (including by a certain bike magazine) and it became hugely popular. Until the landowner found it and even commented semi-jokingly about the sign. Then he flattened the entire area.
Hang on, let me get this right? Some people have been riding bikes and you are moaning? Presumably you own this land otherwise why would you think you have the right to dictate who rides it and when,
If that is the case you need to enforce the fact that it is Private land owned by yourself for your use and that you are saving it for s sunny afternoon when it hasn't been raining for 4 months solid after annual bike sales are growing year on year bought by people with Smart phones who use an app which highlights secret trails that must not be ridden outside your rules otherwise you post shit on a forum dominating the moral high ground because 20 years ago you made a trail and today people aren't adhering to your rules, if I were you I'd call for a complete ban on all bike sales, I mean now you've got one why would any one else dare to even look at one, imagine if their bike was better than yours, they had STRAVA and rode during winter, The Bastards.
If I were you I'd get out riding instead of sitting in the house chuntering waiting for Summer sunshine, Whilst your sat with your feet up others are out there laughing at you. And I think the Secret trails you are referring to are in Narnia,
'Dark coloured stones' by any chance Wrighty?
Not been up for a while, so don't know the conditions tbh - there are some great natural trails up there and while we all want to go faster, straightlining is balls - most of the fun is in the twisty stuff!
Xyeti.
Again another one who I hope lives as far away from here as possible! It's causing problems with the land owners because of the attitudes of people just like yourself.
Yes artist that's the place.
Straightening has been an issue for decades. In an attempt to go faster, people avoid the actual trail. The less skilled riders take the straight line as it is easier and allows them to keep up (or they follow someone).
The trails widen and get easier...more riders use it, they then widen it more (some removing trees and features to make it even easier).
I've seen it in every area I've ridden...it isn't Strava, it is people with too little skill taking an easier line to try to be fast.
Most obvious on natural trails but happens a lot at man-made trail centres as well...I don't understand it myself but it is far too common.
Wrightyson, i ride there quite often, I rode in those woods 30 years ago and continue to do so, I've not ridden there since October, not because I think the trails belong to me and I'm doing my bit to preserve them or that I give two hoots about the land owner, by the way land owners are never happy.
So just for your narrow minded self I'd just like to point out that my attitude bares no relevance to the land owners problems, And instead of cosying up to the land owner helping them burden the problem and blaming cyclists why don't you do something constructive if it's grating your balls that much, hold a meeting "Locally" because it sounds like you only want locals riding there, get a team of riders there who share your sentiment and tape off the trails and let them recover, Police this top and bottom tape it off and make sure your Mate,s who own the land get in contact with STRAVA and have the routes removed so that NO ONE with an adventurous nature can take advantage of some software highlighting such places to ride.
And to think you probably call yourself a Cyclist, and I wished I lived as far away from you as possible.
These are my local trails, and the woods above the canal are my ride to work. All the trails are knackered until you get to the dark peak and strava has nothing to do with it- you can't get a good time on any of the trails now.
The problem is the weather. Every trail is on poorly drained clay soil, every trail is saturated and any traffic, foot or wheels, will cut it up. There isn't a local dry alternative so people who want to use a trail have to use the wet, saturated routes and they get cut up.
A nice flowy trail by my house has been trashed by horses and is now unrideable, one I take to the canal has been ripped up by walkers and the trails that link them up have been trashed by cyclists. But ultimately it's the weather and our restrictive access laws that strap people to certain routes with no alternatives that are the problem.
Thankfull Xyeti isn't a local round here, as we have plenty of corner cutters and trail straighteners to deal with.
Xyeti I don't know the land owners but there is rumblings of police being involved up at shining cliff due to people taking the piss. I'm glad you were up there 30 years ago. It's only been 25 for me as I'm a wirksworth lad and it's where I cut my teeth. And you're right I'm not a cyclist, I'm a mountain biker with a tad more care for what we've luckily got on our door step than you.
Was riding Black Rocks yesterday that stuff had been absolutely hammered this winter. But I guess that's a fact of life. Looks like the area is been used more and more.
Xyeti.
Let me paraphrase to save a longer debate.
wrightyson: I wish people could be considerate, reasonable and sensible in the way they ride, so that everyone benefits.
you: why should I ? I'm a t**t
less people use strava than you think TBH.It's probably just idiots
.... Who use strava, I pressume (smirk)
Yes, thats a great idea, get the police involved, People Taking the piss is always a good use of resources.
Wrightyson, Its great that your a Mountain biker with a tad more care for what you have on your door step than me, You still wont be able to stop Erosion or the Water course which will always follow the path of least resistance and give no regards to your swoopy flowy trail, The ground is holding water more now than it has all winter because its at saturation point, But i like your thought, Build un natural stuff in a woods, alter the Natural terrain disrupt the water run off and then blame folk for riding it wrong. Top job. Well Done. Lets call it............... STRAVA Damage.
Your right get the Police involved.
imnotverygood, Thanks for your input and your little prologue that is playing out in your head, T**T.
Interestingly I was looking at my Strava tomes from runs around the area OP is chatting about and they have been fairly consistent over the winter and only a few seconds shy of summer times. So I guess while it looks very hammered you can still go fast and have plenty of fun!
EDIT
Do think people have clocked on to how good an area it is to ride. People had come from 4 or 5 counties in a recent ride.
Wrightyson - I really don't think it's done that badly given how wet it's been since mid-Oct and how many people are using it on strava. I have noticed some of the corners getting straighter on the middle climb up to trig point last summer. Not sure where else you could mean. It's not exactly smooth and flowing up there in perfectly dry conditions, and the difficult terrain attracts some of the finest riders in the country.
It's nothing to do with Strava, this happens every winter where I ride and has done since I can remember, its generally just people avoiding the worst mud or fallen branches and then creating more muddy lines in the process. It usually sorts itself out come summer when the singletrack lines are clear again (and sometimes different from the year before which isn't always a bad thing as trails evolve and new features develop).
I tried using my phone to damage the trails, not much happened. Idiots will be idiots and people will still ride in stupid conditions.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you mean the trail that lies just the other side of a little gate, where there has been some felling in recent years? as well as earlier this winter?
You didn't exactly hang about given the conditions. Congrats on your 6th place out of 19 this year.
I'm riding Ambergate on Thursday, is it dry enough to make the swoopy bits or am I going to have to straight line it again?
Not done much there this year so hoping to make at least a few 2016 KOMs.