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I have a six year old Lupine Wilma that has served me well but it's developed loose connections. I can get it fixed but that will take time and I need a light for a long commute.
The light needs to be able to offer around 1200 lumens for between 4 and 5 hours. I need that output because a good part of the commute is on unlit roads and I need that longevity because I don't want to carry the chargers into the office.
With that kind of spec I can't afford to be precious about cost. This thing needs to be very reliable and very well built; no cheap Chinese jobs of dubious parentage!
Suggestions?
money no object
The sun 8)
PMSL
Lupine Betty £199?
[url= http://flatoutcycles.co.uk/lupine-betty-6-6ah-smartcore-1850-lumen-bar-mounted-light-32382 ]http://flatoutcycles.co.uk/lupine-betty-6-6ah-smartcore-1850-lumen-bar-mounted-light-32382[/url]
they do others and you coudl keep the Wilma for spares once it's fixed.
you can reprogram the Betty to drop the lumens and up the run time.
they do a number of other of Lupine lights too and good prices.
That's a lot of light for riding on the road. I'd be looking at something built to the German standards with a good beam pattern.
Biggest Exposure (Six Pack), run at half power.
One word, Lumicycle.
Lumicycle seem a good fit here, because they offer uprated battery sizes.
Something like this one exceeds your spec by a few hours for example:
http://www.lumicycle.com/mountain-bike-lights/explorer-range/explorer-2-extender-pack.html
To be honest, anything with an 6-cell or 8-cell external battery pack will do it. I get those run times from my 'Chinese job of dubious parentage!' 🙂
Do you really need that much power, or could you have something with a shaped beam and a hub? Something from ze germans?
Thanks guys - I should perhaps be less judgemental about the Chinese options.
My 'fear' is the thing going faulty while I'm slogging up the back of Headley Common/Box Hill at 10pm but then the very expensive German made Betty (it's not a Wilma) has just gone faulty so I guess parentage isn't everything.
Do you really need that much power?
Yes absolutely. The roads here are not just unlit, they are often under the cover of trees and they are often in pretty bad shape. In order to feel confident on the darkets stretches, I actually need a maximum output of about 1800 lumens. This is what the Betty puts out on maximum and I use that level when on the darkest stretches of road.
Not only does it ensure that I can see the pot holes, it's also a great comfort when it's cold and dark and wet and late and my legs and heart have had enough!
1200 lumens is about twice as much as you need for unlit roads, even on steep twisty bits (IMO, obviously).
And if you get something that's USB chargeable, recharging at work is a doddle.
As such, is recommend something from Moon.
What are you attaching it to?
For commuting I'd go the dynamo hub option. No batteries to worry about and you can run front and rear from it. For on-road use I'd go for one of the lights that pass the German road standards, the B&M lights are good, you wouldn't use them for blasting downhill off-road but more than good enough for unlit rural roads. (My commute includes a one mile straight downhill and I can easily hit 70kph and the dynamo light is good enough for that)
There are two downsides: cost (though you indicate that isn't an issue) which possibly includes a wheel rebuild; roadside emergencies like puncture repair - while the modern lights have a capacitor to keep the light going at junctions, it doesn't last long enough to fix a puncture for example so you might need a small torch for such occasions.
Maybe your eyes are better than mine then Simon. When I run the Betty on low beam on the darkest stretches, I find myself having to strain my eyes that little bit harder to see what the road is like. That's a drain on concentration when what I really want to do is concentrate on pedaling. On high beam - 1750 lumens - I can realax quite a bit more.
My commute is 100km in total and I spend a good part of that in Zone 4. It's not really a commute; it's actually my training ride to fit in with everything else. Having additional effort required to see the road isn't welcome.
Whitestone - dynamo hub is a great suggestion. I will look into it, thanks.
About 8 of us all used to have Lupines, they all died with dodgy connectors after a couple of years, mostly fixed under warranty but same happened again after time.
All running Smudges lights now which have been brilliant-
[url= http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/mountain-bike-lights/ ]http://www.mtbbatteries.co.uk/mountain-bike-lights/[/url]
I use [url= http://www.full-beam.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SYS_NN_2500 ]this[/url] and it saw me through the night at the Strathpuffer on half power. The output is programmable so you can tailor power/battery time to suit. Really well built light with great beam pattern.
Another lumicycle fan here. The quality is first class. Both the lights and batteries. Plus they are home grown if that is a consideration
Four4th?
Here you go, if money's no object,
http://www.magicshineuk.co.uk/offers/mytinysun-pro-3600x-3600-lumens-bike-light-made-in-germany.html
Exposure Strada is spot on for road use - comes with a remote bar-switch for 'dipping', has a flattened oval beam pattern so it doesn't dazzle oncoming traffic, can be used with a back-up battery for increased burn time, though not at the same time as the remote and you can always buy a spare charger for office top-ups or simply use Exposure's dedicated USB-lead for the same.
You know how much power is remaining all the time thanks to the fuel gauge on the back, which takes the guesswork out of run times, which is nice. I sometimes run a Joystick on the bars as well as a sort of additional main beam.
The output's programmable too, so you can juggle brightness and levels to suit. I tend to run just 'high' and 'low', but you can have three levels and various different brightnesses, so if you're off on a really long ride, simply throttle back the output and have better burn time.
A really nice light. Much more road friendly than some huge flood that you have to angle down to reduce dazzle and made in the UK by nice people.
I run a Lumicycle off road, but the Exposure works better for me on the road.
I really wouldn't use MTB lights on-road unless there's a fresnel you can put over the lens as the light distribution is a real PITA for other road users even when you point them down and left.
+1 dynamo. I have a Shimano dynamo hub on my commuter and run a B&M front and rear (supplemented with exposure flash/flare). I'm a big fan of exposure so if I had the cash I'd be looking at their dynamo hub with the Revo up front and a redeye powered from that on the back. 'Only' 800 lumens though.
Just got a 2015 Maxx D mk7, and it's incredible. Insanely bright - daylight levels of light (2400 lumens), excellent beam, plus the Reflexy variable brightness thing. Not really noticed the latter working on the road, probably at the upper end of it's speed too much.
Gives a proper read out in hours and minutes remaining too, I've been dipping it between "program 2" and low, which gives between 6 and 18 hours burn time.
Doesn't dazzle too much on low, and still gives plenty of useable light.
Four4th, with green leds.
The USB charge ability of the Exposure range solves the issue of needing the light to have a long burn time. I can easily recharge in the office with just a lead so that makes life a lot easier.
It's looking like the Toro is a good choice and I can get one this afternoon, which means I can still ride in tomorrow morning.
Why do you think you need that much light. For unmade and unlit road commuting/touring a 200 lumen Hope 1 works pretty well for me 🙂 I can see the benefit of, maybe 4-600, but twice that?! Do you need a tan or what?
As others have said, beam pattern and reliability would be more important to me, at least if you hit 4-600 🙂
My dealings with Lupine whan I worked in a stokist consisted of "gfs can you send this back under warranty, please, again" .
Doesn't really matter what the lumens value is (within reason), it's how it's projected on to the surface in front of you that matters. The B&M lights have a reflector that accounts for the inverse square law (light intensity reduces by the square of the distance from the source) so that the road immediately in front of your wheel is roughly the same brightness as that ten or fifteen metres ahead.
What you need to compare is "lux" which measures how the light illuminates a given area.
Have a look here http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/b&m-hl.asp for example outputs from the B&M lights.
http://www.full-beam.com/
Apparently very good but I've no personal experience.
I'd suggest four4th - Del will pretty much guide you and customise a light. The holy moses?
Why do you think you need that much light.
Look I'm really happy to accept that there are different ways of measuring output and illumination and be educated to a new way of thinking etc. But right now, all I have to go on is what I have been using the last few years.
The Betty puts out '1750 lumens' on max output and for the riding I do, that is what I need. I'm out training; I'm kiling myself most of the time and every ounce of brain power I have is being employed to counteract the desire to just make the pain stop. I really don't want to have to do anything other than concentrate on that so yes, I need that amount of output please if that is OK with you?
Why do you think you need that much light. For unmade and unlit road commuting/touring a 200 lumen Hope 1 works pretty well for me
Because everyone's eyes are different? I sure as hell couldn't ride unlit roads with a 200 lumen light without ploughing into every pothole in sight (or not in sight rather). Bad road surfaces, 23mm tyres and lots of darkness, why wouldn't you have more light?
I ride with a joystick on unlit roads, I have the wall charger at home and the USB charger at work just top top it up while i'm sat at my desk (this is assuming you're at a desk all day i suppose)
I can't fault my exposure light, it's massively solid, lasts forever and has a nice beam for what it is.
3 days a week commuting and 2 night rides as a head torch. It's awesome 😀
I'm not suggesting a joystick as it doesn't match your output criteria but one of the larger exposure lights would fit the bill (and have the usb charger)
The exposure lights are very, very good. The 6 pack or the Maxx D on low setting would do you nicely. If you're a computer based worker, they are also USB chargeable, so you can plug it in during the day for added high beam on the way back home.
I ride on the sort of roads you are describing. Around the Mendips, down tree lined 'roads', it's properly dark. At speed I hit so much I've swapped to a CX bike for road training rides. For these tracks, and the 800ft+ descents that I often go down, my 2000 lumen (I think) Maxx D and my joystick are used. Why not have light? I'd brick it on just the joystick and probably end up in a ditch....
I need that amount of output please if that is OK with you?
Sure it is 😀 I was only curious. Training, OK.
Because everyone's eyes are different?
For a massive ****a my eyes are in good shape then 😀 No, really, I've always had great vision, almost 20:20 when I had it checked last. I am also very sensitive to bright light - I didn't think of that I guess.
On the nightrides I've been on with others, I am always left thinking it's massive overkill, so maybe I just can see better in the dark.
Never realised. I'm just slightly more awesome than I thought!
Peas and love,
Sam
Been trying to come up with an answer to this in [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/road-bike-lights-moon-on-a-stick ]another thread[/url].
I'd like to try something more road specific as I suspect the typical mtb light chucking out loads of lumens all over the place is a bit rubbish for the road and it'd be much better to have a more appropriate beam pattern and probably less power (and this for proper training not just a pootle commute). My old joystick for example, I think it's got more than enough power at around 500 lumens on high, I usually run it on the medium setting, but the light is not where I need it. I'm going to try and get a test of an Exposure Strada. The [url= http://supernova-lights.com/en/products/airstream_int_3.html ]Supernova Airstream 2[/url] looks good too.
Yep, my 'normal' vision is great too, but clearly not as good in the dark. A lot of the problems come with other vehicles - if you're coming down a hill at 30mph, and someone comes the other way, once they go past, if you're running a little tiny light you're blinded for a few seconds until they re-adjust. That's more than long enough to hit something!
Not such an issue off road, or on a mountain bike on the road, but the margins for error are just that bit smaller on a road bike.
Peas and love,
Hugs mate 😀
A lot of the problems come with other vehicles - if you're coming down a hill at 30mph, and someone comes the other way, once they go past, if you're running a little tiny light you're blinded for a few seconds until they re-adjust.
And this +1. You need something bright to penetrate the glare.
Surprised that no-one has linked to this yet - http://road.cc/content/news/97193-big-roadcc-lights-test-2013
A quote from that page: "[i]Disappointingly, nearly every light we've been sent so far this year has a round beam, more or less. For riding on the road a squared-off beam has advantages. You're not wasting your battery lighting up the tree canopy, and you're less likely to dazzle oncoming traffic. Such beams are widely used in Europe, and in Germany they're the only lights legal for use on the road.
Here in the UK, however, we still seem to be stuck in a bit of an arms race, with manufacturers concentrating on increasing output, rather than tailoring lights for their intended use. [/i]"
Lumicycle.
great gear that lasts almost for forever, and even then they'll make sure you're well looked after
Lumicycle.
Their Apex sounds ok as a road specific light. External battery options may be good for the OP.
Surprised that no-one has linked to this yet
Weird test. All they seem to have done is photographed a load of beam patters from some random set of lights.
Definitely Four4th, i have the Holy Moses with green LEDS, its awesome. They do an even brighter one now as well.
Nothing else comes close to the quality of Four4th.
How about 4200 lumens http://four4th.co.uk/products/lights/omg-duplicate/
Another vote for Lumicycle, my HID is 8 years old and the old NiMh battery only failed this winter. Treated myself to a new Lumicycle LED and I can even use the new Lithium battery with the old HID! It does cost a lot, but it lasts and you can buy spares for when you smash the mounts off or need spare battery etc.
"Here in the UK, however, we still seem to be stuck in a bit of an arms race, with manufacturers concentrating on increasing output, rather than tailoring lights for their intended use. "
This - I have an Exposure Strada and two German-spec lights. They all work well. I hate riding with off-road lights on the road. In my experience the only way to genuinely avoid dazzling oncoming drivers and other riders is to angle the light down so far that you can no longer see more than ten metres ahead of your front wheel. Spots like the Joystick are better, but floods are often dreadful.
It just seems like basic consideration for other road users to me and safer for other riders too - my nightmare is being taken out by a following car driver who's being blinded by an oncoming bike on the other side of the road.
Sorry about that. You can go back to raving about lumens now.
I'm with BWD and a few others on this: Something from Exposure.
There's more to it than 'build quality' etc (although Exposure are very good indeed)
There's the practicality of it. 1200 lumens with a round beam is wasting half of it in the air for a start, and dazzling people. That's where the Strada comes in. The beam is designed for the road and little of it is wasted. Also, don't under estimate how much less faff it is to pop the light off the QR bracket and take it with you to charge! Faffing around with seperate batteries strapped to your stem? No thanks.
Also, easily user programmable! Choose how long you want it to last and wether to have high/low or high/medium/low beams. Plus a really useful flash mode.
The decent ones come with a mains charger and a USB cable so you can have the charger at home and the USB at work.
Like I said, there's more to it than loads of money and loads of lumens, and what's best off road might not suit road rinding! 🙂
BWD, what Geramn lights do you have?
You need 1200 lumens for an unlit road? May I suggest an eye test 😉
Two Exposure Stradas, or a one plus a Joystick. Both can be charged from a laptop if needed. I ride unlit roads with 800 carefully angled lumens without a problem.
Not sure you really need it for the road, but I have an Exposure 6 pack, and the thing is amazing, not just build quality but battery power, programming options etc, it really is awesome. Although the top light level is clearly OTT for road use, you can use it at a lower level and get amazing battery life out of it, up to 36 hours on the low setting.
Prior to that had a cheap chinese job, light amazing but battery lasted no time at all before conning out, and there are lots of stories of them setting on fire and the like..
theotherjonv - Member
Four4th, with green leds.
I'd normally recommend them also but...
[b]This is a road thread people![/b] 😉 . Don't recommend MTB lights for road. Way too bright.
1200 is even too much I'd say. If you want bright to be able to see on unlit, [u]please[/u] make sure it can be easily dimmed for oncoming traffic. If you have a bar light it should be the same as car lights, offset and down to the left. Helmet lights on road may be useful for you but dazzling for the driver if you look at him. At least look away. I'd also never run helmet light only. Turn your head and you can become invisible to drivers.
Bear in mind that bike lights are often more focused and dazzling for drivers even if not as bright as a car headlight.
1200 is even too much I'd say. If you want bright to be able to see on unlit, please make sure it can be easily dimmed for oncoming traffic. If you have a bar light it should be the same as car lights, offset and down to the left. Helmet lights on road may be useful for you but dazzling for the driver if you look at him. At least look away.
As has been said though the beam pattern is as important/more so than the headline brightness. Helmet mounted lights are useless on the road IMO, and wholly agree that they just dazzle. Don't think anyone's really recommended one though.
As you're always as such desperate pains to point out you don't ride on the road I've no idea what you can offer?
An appropriately angled and focused 'MTB' light will be fine for the road - obviously if you point it 100 yards up the road and/or at cars then you're a ****, but y'know...
BWD, what Geramn lights do you have?
I've got a Philips Saferide 80 and a Supernova Airstream 2. The Philips has the better beam pattern, it's wide, long reaching and has a very flat cut-off, puts a surprising amount of light on the road where you want it. It's not perfect by any means: it's heavy and has a relatively short burn time from four AA rechargeable batteries, though you can charge them in situ by USB.
It works really well with a Joystick alongside it set up as a high beam, but my plan is to mod it to run at 1000mA or whatever, rather than the stock 700 and run it from an external battery.
The Airstream has slightly odd, more conical beam but with a flat cut-off. Lacks outright punch, but works okay at low to medium speeds and has Joystick-like function and build quality. Works well as a supplementary light for mixed road/off-road if you're doing longish road sections, but it's expensive unless you can find one cheap on eBay.
I have to say, I mostly end up using the Strada. It's angled just slightly left and a little down, but the flattish, oval beam is a reasonable compromise, loads of light, remote switch is a real plus on the road etc.
njee20 - Member
As you're always as such desperate pains to point out you don't ride on the road I've no idea what you can offer?
Wasn't trying to have a dig. Just purely making it clear that the OP is looking for something for commuting on unlit roads, as several posts already recommending MTB lights which are clearly not suitable to the OP. Trying to be helpful that's all.
Helmet mounted lights are useless on the road IMO, and wholly agree that they just dazzle. Don't think anyone's really recommended one though.
OMG has been recommended here, which is intended more as a helmet light. 4200 lumens helmet light! 😯 😀 . Amazing light, but if someone asked me for a road light, it wouldn't be that, not even on the bars.
An appropriately angled and focused 'MTB' light will be fine for the road
Can be used on the road, and I do so myself for stretches where I hit the road, but a 4000+ lumen blazing MTB light for 4 to 5 hours worth of commuting is not the light you want. Doubt the battery would last for a start!
I use the exposure toro and am really happy with it.
Switching between the different brightness levels and the pulse for on road use it very easy and its 1 unit with no battery which is really helpful commuting.
Have used it on some of the roads round epsom down you are talking about and it will be fine.
The display telling you how much battery life left is really handy as well.
Solid mount and you can buy more mounts so it is easily movable between bikes.
Pricey but I would stick with exposure.
Wasn't trying to have a dig. Just purely making it clear that the OP is looking for something for commuting on unlit roads, as several posts already recommending MTB lights which are clearly not suitable to the OP. Trying to be helpful that's all.
But plenty are. Like I say, I've just bought a new Maxx D, to replace an old Maxx D, which will be primarily used for commuting on a road bike, on very similar roads to the OP. It's not the case that if it says "MTB" on it, it's unsuitable.
BWD - I've got a Philips Saferide 80 [...] my plan is to mod it to run at 1000mA or whatever, rather than the stock 700 and run it from an external battery.
Please put up a thread if you do successfully mod it; I have both Mk1 and Mk2 and would like to have an external powerpack rather than have both on the 'bars.
Please put up a thread if you do successfully mod it; I have both Mk1 and Mk2 and would like to have an external powerpack rather than have both on the 'bars.
If you google, it's been done by someone on here already, but I'll try to post something when I get round to it. A bit more light and unlimited burn time would do very nicely 🙂
But plenty are. Like I say, I've just bought a new Maxx D, to replace an old Maxx D, which will be primarily used for commuting on a road bike, on very similar roads to the OP. It's not the case that if it says "MTB" on it, it's unsuitable.
I guess you can address the problem two ways. Either go road specific and put what light you have where you need it, or take the Clarkson approach and just chuck more lumens up the road.
And how do we judge suitability? There don't seem to be any regs here like the Germans have. Just seems to be "I think this is what I need so I deem it suitable. Notice Exposure themselves don't rate the MaxxD as suitable for commuting.
Airstream has slightly odd,
Shame about that, looked a good candidate. Is that the 2nd rev? The German or the International?
So just back with an Exposure Toro from the LBS (well local-ish; best price was Evans and that's 15 minutes drive). Unit was turning on in the store but apparently that was because they aren't shipped charged.
Back home, plug it in, says it's fully charged. Instructions say to tap the 'on/off' button but there's no indication of where that actually is as it's not marked.
OK so it's that silver dot thing on the back. Tapping repeatedly does nothing. Holding it down with enough pressure to turn my thumb white eventually gets it on.
Trying to change programme settings doesn't work.
I've given up. I've just ordered the Lumicycle Apex Extender and will now have to schlep back to Evans to return the Exposure.
And I still haven't got out on the bloody bike!
Probably for the best. The Apex sounds like a better road choice than the Toro.
They are shipped fully charged, poor form on their part. Very little pressure needed on the switch.
Bike lights have come a fair way since the Lupine Wilma was new, I'm currently doing my 14 mile potholed, tree lined, hilly, country lane commute with two L&M Urban 800's (800 lumen on full power) and a helmet mounted Vis 360+ (250 lumens), it means I don't have all my eggs in one basket.
I rarely need to run them on full power but the option is there if I need it.
The USB charging means that I can charge them on a PC at work so they cost me nothing to run.
They are shipped fully charged, poor form on their part. Very little pressure needed on the switch.
Just back.
So when I presented it to the guy who just sold it to me, his colleague, who had even commented on the light as I was buying it, pipes up 'oh that must be the one that some other guy returned as faulty and hasn't been sent for warranty yet'.
You really couldn't make it up could you.
If money is no object, go dynamo.
I run a SON hub powering a Supernova E3 Triple 2.
The hub has no noticeable drag, provides great power even at low speed and isn't any heavier than a standard hub plus a battery pack.
The light is amazingly bright and perfect off road.
No worries about battery life, run time, charging etc. Dynamos have moved on so much these days.
I run them on my singlespeed rigid MTB and my wet weather road bike. Can't recommend them strongly enough.
Solarider how about a few picks of the stable, just for old times sakes and since we're in the bottom part of the day. Go on.
No worries about battery life, run time, charging etc. Dynamos have moved on so much these days.
Just out of interest how much light does it put out if you stop for a puncture or at a road junction? ❓
See my earlier post about "stand time" basically the light dims slightly then stays on for about four minutes - long enough for lights/junctions but not for a puncture hence why I suggested a secondary light for such occasions. Doesn't need to be all singing, all dancing.
As above. Stand time is just over 4 minutes.
Plenty of time if you are standing at lights. I have front and rear dynamo on the MTB and both actually last significantly longer than that.
If you are mending a puncture, I suggest getting yourself off the road somewhere safer! I wouldn't stand in the road even in broad daylight to mend one!
Even a battery light will be not much use if your bike is at a strange angle with 1 wheel removed. At least with a dynamo a simple spin of the front wheel will get your light going again. With a dead battery, you have no option except a back up light.
The E3 Triple has 3 LEDs. To extend stand time, only 1 stays on when the wheel is not spinning. The rear stay on full power. This is a 'be seen rather than see' option, but in reality in the situation described, only the rear light really matters.
As with any decision, there are pros and cons, but on balance I prefer dynamo. You also have a less obtrusive form of power than a battery pack dangling precariously somewhere off the bike. The lights themselves are tiny, and the wires can be very neatly routed and fitted with quick release connectors so that you can take them off easily to prevent theft but still leave the main wire in place.
In other breaking news we are moving back home to the UK! Yey! Might sound a strange thing to say given the year round heat and sun here in Singapore, but I am really looking forward to riding in a bit of inclement weather and needing to use the lights! Just ordered a new Cielo 29er, so watch this space for those stable piccies in about 3 months when it arrives. Just fallen back in love with mountain biking and really looking forward to that!
If you are mending a puncture, I suggest getting yourself off the road somewhere safer! I wouldn't stand in the road even in broad daylight to mend one!
More that I tend to use the light if I'm fixing a puncture, rather than standing in the road to do it...
Something like the Cree handtorches as sold by CandBSeen among others or maybe a small headtorch such as those sold by Alpkit will be good enough to fix a puncture by.
Another minus point for dynamos 😳 - people have a habit of turning off your light after you've fastened the bike up: "to stop your battery running out"! Interesting when you move from street lights in to an unlit area.
There's roads and there's roads.
My commute is 80% on singletrack lanes. Gravel, potholes, large stretches of almost unmade surface etc. It's bad enough I use my 29er. I see about 10cars.
I use a MaxxD on the 3,6 and 12 setting plus a joystick on flash on my helmet. The light is angled reasonably low and I put it on the 12 for oncoming cars which almost always pull over to let me past.
I am doing this at Z2 and for 16 miles. 60miles and Z4 I can understand the need for something pretty special. FWIW the MaxxD is great so the next one up is probably what you want.
I am doing this at Z2 and for 16 miles. 60miles and Z4 I can understand the need for something pretty special. FWIW the MaxxD is great so the next one up is probably what you want.
The Six Pack? The 3200 lumen portable off road sun? Sounds ideal for the road 😉
The Six Pack? The 3200 lumen portable off road sun? Sounds ideal for the road
I meant the new MaxxD with intelligent gubbins