[Closed] Le Tour 2017 - Speculation, predictions, spoilers, etc.

Certainly links well with the showing that TJvG made, he may have got a stage win in the Giro but is he a genuine Grand Tour contender? I'm by no means an expert but he's never impressed me

slowoldman - Member

On similar lines, see De Gendt has got into a spot of bother over his use of a hypoxic altitude tent.

I thought these were pretty much accepted in sport.

Likewise. In the Sven Nys documentary I'm sure they talk openly about using them?

An altitude tent seems pretty reasonable, its just applying an external stress to your body to get it to adapt to the demands of the event. Its training.

Oh dear. L'Equipe is reporting rumours that Froome is looking to leave Sky and has offered his services to BMC for £5m/yr

Is he out of contract at the end of this season? Trying to get a bit of leverage?

I'd be surprised if he left. Though possibly had enough of the "controversies" surrounding Sky and BC. I can't see BMC dumping a marketable TVG despite the miss-fires, and I can't see Porte being too happy about being Froome's no 2 again.

Wiggo talked openly about using an altitude tent a few years back, I didn't realise they were frowned upon at all. But not as good as the real thing, you can't ride up a mountain in one.

Apparently the tents are banned in some countries, didn't know that. Controversial in other sports too, Djokovic got into trouble over discussing his use of one too I believe (bit ironic considering what else goes on in tennis!)

But not as good as the real thing, you can't ride up a mountain in one.

Most these days seem to advocate the "sleep high, train low" approach anyway.

re altitude tents, it just shows that cheating is not black and white and there's a huge grey area where we chose to mark the boundary and its all entirely arbitrary. e.g. The measure of athlete health never comes into it.

Floyd Landis at about an hour in

with his [i]altitude chamber[/i].

didn't Boardman have some sort of home-made altitude room in his house when he was riding?

As for Froome leaving Sky, it seems quite probable unless they've given him answers in private to the whole Wiggins-paper bag debacle. He's being asked loads of questions related to BC/Team Sky doping that are nothing really to do with him and I'd imagine after a while it becomes too much.

Can't say whether or not BMC would make sense but if they let TvG go as seems likely as they supposedly agree about him as a Grand Tour leader, they have a spot for a 2nd GT rider. The fight over who gets the TdF would be interesting though. Maybe he could go to Trek though, Contador can't be THAT far off retiring.

All that said, Froome says the BMC story is bollocks. Maybe BMC are trying to push down TvG's salary requirements. They must be paying a lot for Greg van Avermaet as well as Porte.

Can't say whether or not BMC would make sense but if they let TvG go as seems likely as they supposedly agree about him as a Grand Tour leader, they have a spot for a 2nd GT rider.

didn't Boardman have some sort of home-made altitude room in his house when he was riding?

Pretty sure he did. I also seem to remember a photo of Chris on the turbo in his bathroom with the heating turned right up and a steaming kettle in there too! Was probably a Peter Keen thing as I just found this from him in a Guardian article...

"The bathroom carpet went out, the rectal probe went in, the bike on rollers came down, and the heater was switched to 30 degrees. We'd run the bath and shower and you'd get humidity at 90%. And so Yvonne would start training in my bathroom. We cooked her. After an hour there would be a line of oil and sweat and bike-dirt going up the door, across the ceiling and down the wall because she would have lost two litres of sweat. It was hitting the rollers and being flicked up. That's what we did. There was no lottery funding or elite programmes then."

Sounds like Tony Martin did much the same for his TT win in Doha too.

Edit...

Inrng article on tents [url= http://inrng.com/2012/06/the-altitude-tent/ ]here[/url]. And I rather like Floyd's home made effort.

I vaguely remember seeing a video of Ben Swift winter training in his sitting room sealed up and turned into a mild vacuum chamber to mimic higher altitude.
One of those year in the life of Team Sky things a while back

Big day at the Dauphine. On the final climb, the Mont du Chat, now (one of the hardest climbs in France apparently.) BMC and AG2R setting the pace. De Gendt out the back.

Edit.. ooh Valverde attacks and looks like he means business. Bid for Tour top spot in Movistar? Interesting stuff.

Good lord this is some heart in mouth descending!

Exciting isn't it!

Great stage that.

From inrng...

Mont du Chat in #Dauphine. In 1974 Poulidor was 1st to the top using 44x23 gear. L'Equipe says Ag2r's Vuillermoz to use a 32T on back today

That must have been one hell of a grind to the top 😯

Porte is looking very strong for a little fella - should've had that sprint

So it's a clockwise and anti clockwise loop at the same time?

Have we had that before?

I might just take a passing interest in it this year and tune in if there's a GC shakeup

scaredypants - Member
Porte is looking very strong

should've had that sprint

He would've if Froome hadn't got in the way

Looks like Froome wasn't getting in anyone's way today.

Raymond Poulidor and 44 x 23 .
His team manager Antonin Magne liked to argue with the riders about gear sizes.
The riders never got to choose the gears that they needed.

Ben Swift got hold of some of Valverde's energy drink? 😯

Froome flying in the Dauphine...

Lol richie porte

Froome flying in the Dauphine...

........and then not!

Pulling a bluff do you think?

Froomes in a dilemma here! 🙂

Crikey what a stage that was.

scaredypants - Member
Porte is looking very strong

...but I'm tipping Fuglsang

😳

Certainly quite a final stage.
We could have an exciting TDF ahead.

Just caught up with the highlights before work. Porte seemed a bit over the top slating (I assume) froome for wanting porte to loose rather than trying to win - or was there more drama not in the highlights package (started about 40km from finish).

I think Porte is wrong, Froome wanted to win but ended up handing it on a plate to Fuglsang as he didn't have the legs to finish what he (and sky) started.

I think he was more on about everyone having a pop even those who had no chance of winning realistically but couldn't be allowed to get too clear.

Him and Froome probably know each other inside out tactically but just not quite where the other one is this year yet. Given the showing it could be a little more mind games as he is a serious contender this year.

What Klunk said. Froome did say afterwards that he wasn't bothered about protecting his podium place and wanted the win.

Yeah exactly - that's what I took as well. Froome had a gameplan - the only way he could possibly win would be to lose Porte early on and get him isolated, and he did that perfectly. He just didn't have the legs on the last climb to take it home.

It was a very strong ride from Porte to get back into contention though. Is he really a big tour GC contender? I don't see it, but he's certainly made some inroads. It was interesting that he [i]almost[/i] managed to sound bitter in the post-ride interview. Something like "I won't forget this in July" 😀

What do we make of this in terms of Froome's chances in the tour though? Obviously this was an 8 day race, not a full Grand Tour. Maybe he was bluffing on the last climb? Sacrifice the Criterium to improve his TdF chances? Seems unlikely given that he's won the CdD in the past as a signal of his intent to take the TdF.

Yeah that was my thoughts as well. I imagine Porte was kind of caught up in the disppointment of missing out on winning by such a narrow margin.

Re. froome. Did less well in TT than expected, faded on the final climb. So seemingly not quite there, he says he's got stuff to work on, but three weeks to go, including tapering theres not much time for improvement? He will have the sky super team though

how long to the exact route comes out ?

. Is he really a big tour GC contender? I don't see it, but he's certainly made some inroads. It was interesting that he almost managed to sound bitter in the post-ride interview. Something like "I won't forget this in July"

Re. froome. Did less well in TT than expected, faded on the final climb. So seemingly not quite there, he says he's got stuff to work on, but three weeks to go, including tapering theres not much time for improvement?

At 3 weeks out it's entirely possible he came to CdD half gubbed at the end of a training block and all he has to do now is rest/taper.
Although I think he's just not there this year - which may be great news for Thomas - Landa and Froome make for a strong pair of domestiques!

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At 3 weeks out it's entirely possible he came to CdD half gubbed at the end of a training block and all he has to do now is rest/taper.

Normally I'd assume this, though it would be a change to previous years when he's been flying at the Dauphine.

I'd say so, last year was solid with a couple of problems and mistakes along with the motorbike on the climb. He was in there till the end and looks stronger this year.

Re Porte in 2016 TdF, BMC really messed up when he lost about 2 minutes on stage 2 with a late mechanical and the rest of his team at the front stage hunting for GVA. He never looked in the race for the win after that. They need to be all in for Porte if he's going to win it. Be interesting to see if he can prove the 3 week doubters wrong.

Froome has had very little race time this year. I wonder after the last two Tours (where is has started like a house on fire and held on in the third week) whether he is taking a different approach this year and trying to get to Stage 1 still slightly undercooked. Apart from Les Planche Des Belle Filles, the first week won't really see a GC shake up. It'll be won and lost in the Pyrenees in the 3rd week and I think Porte might just be running on fumes by then.

Looks like it's all going to be about stage 17 and 18 then. Those are some meaty climbs inc a summit finish on Izoard to sort out the GC.

Superficial - Member
Looks like it's all going to be about stage 17 and 18 then. Those are some meaty climbs inc a summit finish on Izoard to sort out the GC.

Ahem.....

17/18 look like a right ding dong couple of days! Final selection on the Izoard?

POSTED 1 WEEK AGO #

🙂

I reckon it could come down to Stages 17 and 18 personally. 😀

I reckon it could come down to Stages 17 and 18 personally.

Superficial - Member
Looks like it's all going to be about stage 17 and 18 then. Those are some meaty climbs inc a summit finish on Izoard to sort out the GC.

😀

😀

Be nice if it was but could be mostly over by about stage 13. They could do with an ITT after 12 and before the next load of mountains to mix things up.

Actually stage 13 could be a really interesting one, only 100k but all up or down.

Stage 18 you say? Ah, that'll be the stage I'll be camped out on Izoard for. Women's race that day too, must make sure we don't go too high as they don't ride all the way up.

So - anyone else planning on watching at the roadside? What stages? I went to a couple of Vuelta stages last year but this'll be my first TdF visit.

Porte on cycling news...

"Aru has gone up the road and then no one else is going to ride. There's only so long that you can sit there and gamble for the race. I was there to try and win and I had to chase. It didn't quite work out but I think that I can hold my head high," Porte said. "I didn't crack under pressure and I did a good last climb. I think you've got to take some positives out of the negative style of racing."

I don't know what he's complaining about really, if you're in the leaders jersey you've got the most to lose. Everyone's going to try and isolate you, sit back and let you chase and then attack when you're done. That's just the way it is if you're leading the race.

So - anyone else planning on watching at the roadside?

No 🙁

He should be more bummed about the fact that the BMC team were nowhere and he was isolated very early on. Also his crap descending skills meant that Kwiatkowski from Sky passed him on the descent and then caught up with Froome's group to pull for Froome. Complaining about others is pathetic and it's pretty clear he a weak character, so unless he can sort that out as Cadel Evans did, then I don't see him threatening for the win in the TDF.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/nationalroadchampionships/article/20170612-road-Race-guide--Road-races---2017-HSBC-UK---National-Road-Championships-0

Also his crap descending skills meant that Kwiatkowski from Sky passed him on the descent

Normally I'd assume this, though it would be a change to previous years when he's been flying at the Dauphine.

I was going to say the same as [b]slowpuncheur[/b] - The last few years seen Froome flying up the first mountain, grabbing a lead, consolidating in the TT, and the holding on to it in the final days. Given Porte looks very strong in the TTs this year, and the mountains are more spread out, are they hoping Froome will be fresher for the final week this time, and not peaking in the build-up.

Or maybe his training hasn't gone well.

I vaguely remember seeing a video of Ben Swift winter training in his sitting room sealed up and turned into a mild vacuum chamber to mimic higher altitude.

Normally you want to sleep at altitude and train at sea level. This means you can perform maximal training efforts down at sea level, [b][i]and[/i][/b] get altitude adaptation at night. This is the reason everyone has gravitated to training on Tiede - 2200m at Hotel Parador and 40k down to the beach.

Complaining about others is pathetic and it's pretty clear he a weak character, so unless he can sort that out as Cadel Evans did, then I don't see him threatening for the win in the TDF.

Remember well the reformed Cadel's race saving effort towing a line of riders up the mountain. The old Cadel would have had a strop about that and probably lost the race.

Porte also needs to go watch the Giro and see how Dumoulin conducted himself.

Porte also needs to go watch the Giro and see how Dumoulin conducted himself.

he'll get to see it first hand when Tom takes yellow on stage 1 😉

Not sure whether Tom is riding the tour. He's gone from the Giro to the Hammer to the Tour de Suisse. Seems a lot on the race programme rather than trying just to peak. That said, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the ASO are paying Sunweb a heap of cash to get him there, he gets yellow, hangs onto it for a few days then goes back to Holland for a few beers and a well deserved rest.

That said, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the ASO are paying Sunweb a heap of cash to get him there, he gets yellow, hangs onto it for a few days then goes back to Holland for a few beers and a well deserved rest.

I guess it's a trade off. It's a chance for a few days in yellow, always good for a team. But then it's one man less in a team that's likely to be overstretched supporting both Degenklob or Mathews in the sprints and Barguil for GC (not that I'm guessing the latter is likely to get much support based on his likely chances.)

Be interesting to see how Froome does when he's clean, he's unlikely to risk as many TUEs this year now he's been rumbled. Not that I care about drug use in sport, I just find Sky's holier-than-thou attitude to be particularly irritating.

So Porte FTW, and Bertie to blow things up and make it fun.

Dont mention drugs the locals get all upity

Dont mention drugs the locals get all upity

🙄

Do we need to start a TDF doping thread? 😉

I guess it's a trade off. It's a chance for a few days in yellow, always good for a team. But then it's one man less in a team that's likely to be overstretched supporting both Degenklob or Mathews in the sprints and Barguil for GC

Yeah, weird - I thought they'd said he would ride it. Assuming he isn't going for the win (he's certainly got an odd way of preparing for it if he is), then I suppose he can just smash the TT and then domestique his way around, maybe leading out the train from 5-10km out on the sprint stages and still easily being sunweb's best mountain domestique while recovering a bit in comparison to what he's done recently

Trouble is, seems to me that if he's in yellow after the TT* they may feel obliged to defend it (and there's not much opportunity to lose it unless a sprinter does a good TT and then gets a couple of finish bonuses)

*(14km - power race really, will he be favourite anyway ?)

Deggy is riding for Trek now not Sunwebgiantskillshimano

Deggy is riding for Trek now not Sunwebgiantskillshimano

It was late! I'd originally written Kittel 😳

14km - power race really, will he be favourite anyway ?

Goes best on longer rolling TT. Would suit a bigger more powerful rider.

So more mind games or honesty to lift some pressure off himself?

When asked by Cyclingnews if he now had the psychological edge over Porte, after halting his momentum ahead of July, Froome played a straight bat at first before – and for the first time this year – stating his opinion that the BMC rider was the favourite for the Tour de France.

"I don't think so," he said when asked about holding the edge over Porte mentally. "I'd still say that Richie was far and above the strongest man in the race. He did get caught out tactically, his team did get caught out tactically today, but I still say that he's the favourite for July and the strongest rider in the peloton at the moment."

Were BMC Racing caught out tactically or did they lack the depth to defend Porte's lead?

"Good question, you'd have to ask them. I don't know what their tactics were."

14km - power race really, will he be favourite anyway ?

Speaking of Sunweb riders, I'd not be surprised to see someone like Mathews take this. He goes well in a prologue time trial, but this one is a bit longer so who knows. He was [url= http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/michael-matthews-gets-slick-in-the-wind-tunnel-gallery/ ]aero testing[/url] back in feb and I'd not be surprised if it was with the TdF in mind.

Edit.... having said that, the top 10 from [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Tour_de_France,_Stage_1_to_Stage_11#Stage_1 ]Stage 1 in 2015[/url] would suggest it'll be one for the specialists.

So more mind games or honesty to lift some pressure off himself?

Probably a bit of both. Everyone's going to be pointing the "favourite" finger at someone else right now.

He was aero testing back in feb and I'd not be surprised if it was with the TdF in mind.

Most likely he was at a new team, new bike and clothing part of that. He's had a pretty quiet season with one stage of the Tour of the Basque country and a day or two ago at the Tour de Suisse. I'd imagine Sunweb, as much as the Giro win has made their season, want a bit more from Matthews than that.

want a bit more from Matthews than that.

He looks in pretty good form for stage wins too over at the Tour de Suisse.

Good write up of the Dauphine...
http://inrng.com/2017/06/the-moment-2017-criterium-du-dauphine-was-won/

So this is where the Dauphine thread is hiding.

What a finale yesterday, such a great year for road racing already and now this makes it seem that the TdF may not be the snoozefest it was shaping up as.

Slightly gutted for Porte, after that effort to drop Froome he gets beaten by the bonus. He took it well though.

What a finale yesterday

He took it well though.

I agree it was a great finale. But a) it was Sunday - have you been asleep since then? I'm guessing yes since b) he's taken it quite badly. 😆 😆

My mistake, didn't get chance to watch until yesterday and I stay off social media to avoid spoilers.

He's not really said anything since his post-race interviews, in which he seemed mildly narked - but the press seem to have blown that up a bit.

Maybe not BFFs with Froome any more though.

I stay off social media to avoid spoilers.

Yep. Another on the blackout until the highlights show here!

He looks in pretty good form for stage wins too over at the Tour de Suisse.

I was just saying that he needs to win more than an odd stage here and there in a 2nd or 3rd tier race; I'd imagine they expected either classics wins or GT stages when they handed over what I imagine was a pretty big pay packet for Sunweb.

Porte needs to remember one thing;

I'd imagine they expected either classics wins or GT stages when they handed over what I imagine was a pretty big pay packet for Sunweb.

Had a pretty good TdF stage win last year, but that was from a break and Sagan did most of the work if I recall correctly. Won't beat the likes of Kittel and Greipel in drag strip sprints and will need to try in the lumpier stages. His problem is likely to be Sagan who can do everything that bit better than he can. Be good to see him try and challenge Sagan for green though.

Cyclingnews form guide....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/tour-de-france-favourites-form-ranking-2/

Tom Dumpoulin drops out of the Tour death Suisse.

Route du Sud starts today.

Whilst Froome will be doing absolutely everything for the win. I secretly think he would not be so upset if Porte were to beat him this year if he were carrying better form. They're best friends off the bike, and if you aren't the strongest then you'd want your mate to win, no?

Fugsland and Porte in my team, I think this year.

They're best friends off the bike, and if you aren't the strongest then you'd want your mate to win, no?

If he was out the picture for GC and could help Porte out then suspect he would want him to win and maybe assist (bit like the Dutch alliance on that stage of the Giro.)

Fugsland and Porte in my team, I think this year.

Anyone setting this up when the teams are announced? Have a feeling about Roglic for the opening stage win and yellow, seems on good form.

There'll be a Velogames fantasy league. I've done the last few, I'll do one for this if no-one else gets in first. Remember those who entered the [url= https://www.velogames.com/giro-ditalia/2017/leaguescores.php?league=930211494116 ]STW Fantasy Giro[/url] will already have ranking points in the Grand Tour Series too...