[Closed] LBS .. not doing themselves any favours!

£10 sounds ok to suply and fit a gear cable.It cost loads to rent, heat and pay rates on a shop +staff costs.How much is labour an hour £30 or so?

As someone said above new hear cable and fitting £10.
Is that really what bike shops charge?

If so that is certainly what they want to be selling.

Probably making over 100% markup on the gear cable alone and then another £8 to fit is HUGE profit margins.

Yeah that's a massive £1 profit on the gear cable and £8 for 15 mins labour which works out at £32 per hr inclusive of VAT which is hardly HUGE.

£1 on £1 is a lot. Sell a lot of gears cables and your quids in. Easy money.

What expensive bike components are 100% markup?

And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.

So this thread has got me thinking.. and I apologise for the slightly off topic nature of my wondering.
Why is it that no LBS have partnered with one or more of the big online stores.?

Evans? Pretty much online prices. I suspect the real reason is the kit to fit tyres is £100's and only need using once every other year.

A BB tool is £10 and is needed every 6 months.

As someone said above new hear cable and fitting £10.
Is that really what bike shops charge?

If so that is certainly what they want to be selling.

Probably making over 100% markup on the gear cable alone and then another £8 to fit is HUGE profit margins.

Doubt it makes them huge amounts, the mechanics productivity is unlikely to be 100%, and even for an office job a rule of thumb is it costs 3x more than the wage to get something done (rent, rates, cleaners, energy bills, supervision etc), a bike shop must surely be much less efficient.

And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.

And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.

If you can fit a gear cable - properly - in two minutes then you're a far, far better mechanic than me. And I've been doing this for 20 years.

If, in those two minutes, you can also book the bike in, chat to the customer, book the bike out, take payment and move onto the next job, then you must be a time traveller.

Yeah fair enough when you take all that in to consideration I see your point.

Being as I do all my own work I didn't see all the extra faff.
I do genuinely fit gear cables to my own bike in next to no time.

^^^Agreed.

It is very obviously that some of you guys have never worked in a service industry or have any idea of whats involved. That said some shops make a right pigs ear out of it whilst others really deliver

That's said it doesn't mean bike shops should be refusing to take on jobs because the parts didn't come from them.

I've bought car tyres online before and then taken them to a local fitter. It's work, it's what they do and it keeps them in business.

On the topic of the original story have we heard from the bike shop to get their end of the story?

That's said it doesn't mean bike shops should be refusing to take on jobs because the parts didn't come from them.

I refuse to take on work all the time. The Porsche garage near me refuses to fix my old Smart car. Every business makes decisions all the time about the work they want to do, there's nothing wrong with that.

Where did you get the wheels from Ant? forgetting the mistake with the hub, happy with them out the box?

If LBS's are that flush with cash they can down simple repair jobs fair play to them but I didn't think that was the case.

I'm sure Porsche would service your car if you asked them to. At their usual crazy rates of course.

And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.

One of the most predictable posts ever 😀

Ramsey Neil - Member
And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.
One of the most predictable posts ever

And I have actually worked in the bike industry many years ago for a small bike shop. Back then (10 years ago) jobs like that we're really simple 2 minute jobs.

This was a shop with 2 staff though so I can see how in a bigger chain there are more overheads and paper work.

Really.. dt spokes cost that much? I paid 17 for 32 dt spokes when built with hubs and rims supplied by me.

And I have actually worked in the bike industry many years ago for a small bike shop. Back then (10 years ago) jobs like that we're really simple 2 minute jobs.

This was a shop with 2 staff though so I can see how in a bigger chain there are more overheads and paper work.

But gear systems haven't really become more difficult to change cables in over the last 10 years and we aren't disagreeing about overheads just about the time taken to change a gear cable and set the gears up .

Quick read through this and I cannot see how people can jump to the LBS' defence. Seems like the mechanic tried to use longer spoke nipples an hope the customer wouldn't notice. Got found out and deserves to be named and shamed.
It the mechanic had been honest an charged purely for work then non of this would have happened.

For the people who think that bike shops make much of their money on labour, how many shops are there that are repair only? There are around 70 bike shops in the area that I live, and I can think of maybe three repair only shops, and two of those have some sort of niche (offering storage, mechanic clinics etc).

My local specialist bike shop in Matlock have told me many times they make most of their money on repairs.

Reading between the lines I wonder if there is some kind of history between the OP and the LBS?
Also the OP was ringing everyday about a wheel build that wasn't exactly an urgent job:

so are the carbon wheels any good
where you riding with them this weekend?
Yes - look good enough.
Still on winter bike. So wont be using them for awhile yet.

I'm not saying that excuses the rip off/misunderstanding (delete as you see fit) but if a customer is constantly on your case for a non urgent job you may be tempted to cut corners/get confused.

Regarding the "Which makes more profit, parts or labour ?" question;
The customer pays for the labour, the mechanic gets paid the following week.
The shop buys the parts, they then sit on the shelf for hours/days/weeks before being sold.

Guessing at the numbers, but I suspect that, for a small business, cash flow is as important as profit and 5% profit hand to mouth is better than 20% profit with £5000 for stock up front.

I used that same shop as the op did years ago , haven't been back since .

what percentage take is your shop getting after they've paid you for an hour and then charged for an hour of your time

How does that compare to sales mark-up ?

Labour margin is waaaaay huger than on parts. Which is why I said what I did in the first place!

Dan - got wheels off ebay. Chinese import. Email if you want link.
Very impressed with to be honest. Very tight & smooth.
They were a few grams over 1500grms.
I not used them yet because I still waiting delivery on new bike.

As for me hassling LBS for whees.
Maybe that was the case.
But, as said. He said spokes were due in that day. And he would ring me back later that day.
Each time he didnt ring me back ... so i rang him next day.

On the shops website it says they are happy to build bikes bought elsewhere online.

Finally ...

Wheres LoCo to explain why he uses two different accounts on here?
Amusing really that he also claims to know me too ... Space cadet obviously!
And lets not forget - i was happy to pay for 12 spokes at £2 each off him ..

Where is the shepleg/loco connection being made (and where's the proof)? If true then yeah that's pathetic and certainly lowers my opinion of him, if it's just speculation then you should say so.

Ramsey Neil - Member
And I have actually worked in the bike industry many years ago for a small bike shop. Back then (10 years ago) jobs like that we're really simple 2 minute jobs.
This was a shop with 2 staff though so I can see how in a bigger chain there are more overheads and paper work.
But gear systems haven't really become more difficult to change cables in over the last 10 years and we aren't disagreeing about overheads just about the time taken to change a gear cable and set the gears up .
POSTED 9 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

I'm trying I think how much we used to charge back then. It feels like a long time ago so apologies I can't quite remember the exact figure.

I'm sure it was in the region of £5/6 to supply and fit a new gear cable (inner only).

The shop is still going today so it must have worked for them. I dont know how much they charge now though.

Have look on Sheplegs previous topic history.
He gives email as Simonpowdrill@etc..
From cwmcarn he adds ..

On locotuning site .. His name is revealed.

2min detective work.

Interesting to read diff attitudes he has to same topics whilst using diff accounts.
Take a look.
A strange fella for sure ..

Rockhopper - Member
My local specialist bike shop in Matlock have told me many times they make most of their money on repairs.
POSTED 4 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

My local, good shop Stanely Fearns. I try to use them where ever possible.

Might see you on the trails Rockhopper, look out for an old black Cove Stiffee. What do you ride?

And I have actually worked in the bike industry many years ago for a small bike shop. Back then (10 years ago) jobs like that we're really simple 2 minute jobs.

Oh sure - on a gear system where the cable is clean and new, and the gears are perfectly set up, fitting a new cable is very quick. Snip it, thread through a new cable, tension, clamp and cut the end. I can do that in two minutes too.

But those aren't the usual cases - usually, you have to factor in time to remove the frayed bits from inside the housing, time to check the housing and lube it, time to free up the stuck barrel adjuster, time to adjust the gears again and work out that the owner has screwed the limit screws right in, stuff like that.

A common mistake by amateur mechanics is to think that the average bike shop repair is as simple as their average home repair. It really isn't 😉

IF everything the OP has said is true, there is no defense for the LBS

If I posted up here saying my local garage charged me for parts and labour to fit new oil filter, then I discovered they used the old filter, I can guarantee nobody would try to defend them. Why do people get all misty eyed when it comes to a LBS?

They charged him for new parts that they didn't to fit, it is ridiculous to claim it was a mistake.

If the LBS did what the OP said it did, its an absolute shame and they do themselves no favors at all. When you use one you put your trust in them and expect a certain level of service not to be ripped off.

So how much cash does the LBS make on parts and repairs. Well, repairs are a double whammy, as they will charge you for both.

Now why is OP using 2 accounts? Every time i see something posted that remotely looks like its criticizing an LBS or even someones favorite band, there are some individuals who automatically will turn on the OP and suggest that he as an ulterior motive and then will proceed to try and discredit him with whatever means. This is more so if the individual has not posted before. This is unfair and plain mean in many cases, some individual may be happy lurking and enjoying reading the posts and may only be motivated to post by a negative experience which they want to vent. Seems to Happen a lot here, I think its because certain individuals may feel like fools for either buying a criticized brand or cant face up to the fact that they may have themselves been subject to poor service or a rip off but cant face up to being stupid and not understanding.

Anyway, that aside, and given the responses the OP has had so far, I'm not surprised that he would use a second login to make a complaint.

matlockmeat - Member

Rockhopper - Member
My local specialist bike shop in Matlock have told me many times they make most of their money on repairs.
POSTED 4 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

My local, good shop Stanely Fearns. I try to use them where ever possible.

Might see you on the trails Rockhopper, look out for an old black Cove Stiffee. What do you ride?

Hi, unlikley to see me just yet as I'm currently in Afghanistan. Home in August i think.
I ride a red Specialized M4 hardtail with Aiden built wheels! They must be ten years old now and have never needed a sigle thing doing to them.

And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.

If only it was two minutes:
3minutes as they tell you about how they tried to fix it, left it outside all winter, twiddled all the adjuster screws, and it's a brilliant bike "only £80 from tesco".
Book the job in
Check over the outers,, hanger alignment, mech... I have been handed bikes with cracked frames, customer had no idea.. "Gears change by themselves"... So you need to just make sure it's all safe.
Remove old cable, often from a somewhat iffy shifter than refuses to let go easily. I have even found spiders living in old shifters.
Rehome the spiders.
Flush out the old outer, or replace it
Thread new cable
Tug on cable to get it to bed in and stretch
Attach to mech, which is covered in oily crap and needs cleaning up.
Reset all the + and - screws. Make sure they can't shift into the spokes.
Tube the gears
Run through the gears a few times.
Reset tension.
Run through again, maybe reset again.
Trim cable,
add a nice colourful end crimp
Oil chain, because they never do.
Clean hands and the mess you have made in the workshop.
Add a sticker.
Call customer
3 minute chat whilst they pay, and tell you about another bike they might bring in
Don't forget the 1/10th can of lube, the hand cleaner or gloves, the paper towels, the chris king coffee and hobnobs.

If it was easy they would do it themselves. Having said that these jobs are nice steady earner, and I enjoy the work. So I'm not complaining.

Can't comment on the OP, but my guess is there was a spoke length calculation that went wrong. The guy might have thought after spending time measuring, ordering, building the wheel, getting it wrong, reverting to the original spokes, building again,... After all that he may have earned his money. But a fixed rate job is a fixed rate job even if its a loser. Some you have to take on the chin.

chief9000 - it is not me who is using a second log in account it is a guy who very early came to the LBs defence ... LoCo.

He then later on page 3 of this topic uses Shepleg account to claim he knows me ( which is a blatant lie ) .. and to also claim I have a past history that suggests I would make this whole thing up.

LoCo has kinda shot himself in foot by trying this on.
Because it has brought to our attention he uses two accounts to post diff opinions on a same topic .. you now .. nice honest LoCo .. then sarcastic Shepleg ... who is the real Simon Powdrill 🙄

Take a look through Shepleg history of posts if you have any doubt.

I would hope LoCo conducts his buisiness in a more honest way ..

Also the OP was ringing everyday about a wheel build that wasn't exactly an urgent job:

If a shop says to me, "We'll call you on x day", if they haven't called me by the end of x day, I'll call them. And assuming they're pissing around not doing things when they promised to, then probably never use them again, as being stringed along like this by bike shops was exactly what led me to buy a load of tools and start buying all parts online. It was just quicker to actually get hold of things if I went online, faster to get things done if I got the tool myself, often the cost difference made up for the tool price the very first time, and actually for most jobs I probably spend less total time than I'd spend chasing up shops to get parts and do stuff.

If you can't reliably give people a call back when you've promised, then stop promising to call people back, and don't moan about being hassled if people call you back instead. How complicated is that for people to understand. If you are limited in your ability to communicate by phone, then it is only professional to be clear about that (or put in place some kind of system to remind you to call people who you've promised to call, like a diary or a list of people to call at the end of the day).

Seems like a simple case of lbs trying to get more cash out of someone they thought wouldn't notice,and the loco bit is really funny!!!

joemarshall - Member

Also the OP was ringing everyday about a wheel build that wasn't exactly an urgent job:

If a shop says to me, "We'll call you on x day", if they haven't called me by the end of x day, I'll call them. And assuming they're pissing around not doing things when they promised to, then probably never use them again, as being stringed along like this by bike shops was exactly what led me to buy a load of tools and start buying all parts online. It was just quicker to actually get hold of things if I went online, faster to get things done if I got the tool myself, often the cost difference made up for the tool price the very first time, and actually for most jobs I probably spend less total time than I'd spend chasing up shops to get parts and do stuff.

If you can't reliably give people a call back when you've promised, then stop promising to call people back, and don't moan about being hassled if people call you back instead. How complicated is that for people to understand. If you are limited in your ability to communicate by phone, then it is only professional to be clear about that (or put in place some kind of system to remind you to call people who you've promised to call, like a diary or a list of people to call at the end of the day).

Nothing frustrates me more than this...

"No update mate, still no got to it"

Is WAY WAY better than no call at all.

Who gives a .... What loco does on his personal account as long as his business one is professional, not a single bad word said about his business so it's pretty low to try and put down his business.
As a mrmoo I'm assuming you are of the miggly variety? I might be nosey and pop into said lbs and ask Tim what happened. Besides being arrogant I never really hear many complaints from people who go there.

So there is someone posting under two IDs, defending a business, talking up the business.

It depends on who is doing this, but if its the business itself posting these fake views, its flat out illegal. The law changed years ago, to stop a business planting fake reviews and endorsements of itself.

Just so you know.

My old LBS in the town where I was living previously (sadly closed now) could quite easily be accused of being frustrating for the opposite reason..
Whether it was the steel on-one with hope/flow that marked me out as a possible STW forum user, or my bearded sneer and hateful demeanour I can't be sure.. but this guy was paranoid about providing impeccable comms..

I would get two or three calls per day whilst he was working on my bike - with updates on each and every process, thorough breakdowns of the day's schedule and details of every conversation he had with parts distributors regarding my order..

I can only assume that it was the terror of opening a thread like this on singletrackworld that moved him to behave in this manner, and he closed the shop without notice shortly after I picked my bike up. I can only assume the stress of it all had become too much..

He was certainly the best bike mech I've ever met and his work was absolutely divine, like magic almost as the bike in question still runs completely silently and faultlessly three years later after 1000s of miles of utter abuse..
The last time I saw him he was delivering groceries in a Tesco van, wearing golfing attire and swigging heartily from a large bottle of Largactyl topped up with Pimms.. 🙁

I'm not following the whole double log in thing. Who is who and what did they say about who? Could someone provide an idiots guide?

Essentially frank - op moans about bike shop, loco defends said shop. Then later on in thread loco uses his second log in, shepleg (allegedly), to defend the same shop and suggest op has 'history'.

No one, as far as i can see is suggesting loco is doing this to promote his well respected business, looking at sheplegs history, it would seem he used it to make an arsey comment about one chap in a thread where he was providing great advice as loco. None of which is a crime. I suspect in the context of this thread he was just trying to defend a mates shop. And has maybe come off looking a bit of a nob. But i would still let him service my fork.

Who gives a .... What loco does on his personal account as long as his business one is professional, not a single bad word said about his business so it's pretty low to try and put down his business.

I like having "professionals" on here [ perhaps not Brant 😉 ] to chat with and it is some way short of being Fruit /Superstar type actions here.

As for the OP I would not be happy in his position but I am also giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you are also a good egg

As for the OP I would not be happy in his position but I am also giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you are also a good egg

Apart perhaps from the bitter and scathing personal vendetta that he has launched against LoCo for no discernible reason..

well I am bleeding heart liberal Yunki and as i am not personally there to give him a cuddle a thought a virtual one with a reach round would be best 😉