I've scored and added notes for the ones I know. If others can do the same then we've got a good starting point to order them.
Be interesting to see if there's differences in opinion of gradings too, maybe discuss on here before changing any on the sheet?
Just to throw an opinion out there, I'd have thought that Styhead to Stonethwaite would come in harder than Nan Bield to Kentmere, I've only Ridden Nan Bield out of the two though I have walked Styhead.
I think Neil's initial list had them the way you listed them but I re-ordered. I don't recall anything difficult from Styhead though it was a long old day so maybe I just haven't remembered it well.
I remember a few sections near the top and near the bottom that looked fairly spicy, I was mainly thinking of the rock slabs at the bottom though.
I don’t recall anything difficult from Styhead
Well that comes as zero surprise 🙂
Seems like there's some great knowledge in here so I've also added a tab for people to add their favourite descents that we're not classing as passes.
I've started with Harter Fell as shown to me by @thegeneralist
Is that the Harter fell in Duddon? You could argue that is a pass, goes from Duddon to Eskdale.
Some mentioned Birk side as well, which I'd rate as one of the best descents in the lakes... Maybe open this up to all significant descents?
Thanks to those that have added notes and grades, looking much more complete now.
Is that the Harter fell in Duddon?
Above Haweswater, between Nan Bield and Gatesgarth passes.
Maybe open this up to all significant descents?
I think that would be the best way to do it. I've added a second tab to avoid the initial request of graded passes being lost
seems sensible so long as we don't end up listing every bit of cheeky woods action in the area hahaha
Harter Fell above Haweswater is definitely not a pass, or a Bridleway. Adding that to the list would be the thin end of a very long wedge, involving every cheeky ridge and summit descent in the Lakes, of which there are hundreds.
Harter Fell above Haweswater is definitely not a pass, or a Bridleway. Adding that to the list would be the thin end of a very long wedge, involving every cheeky ridge and summit descent in the Lakes, of which there are hundreds.
I have to reluctantly agree with this PoV. I always feel a little dirty asking on forums about FBWs and then even more dirty posting about then afterwards ( yes I realise how hypocritical I am being). But I can just about justify it to myself.
Given that this list is going to end up being a hit list for many people, well me at least, I think we maybe ought to leave FBWs off it...
Just my opinion though.
Apologies - I thought that was a bridleway, though didn't actually check.
Agree with not including footpaths and cheeky for the sake of this. Let's keep it to best of the legal stuff, there's plenty of it
Agree lets keep it too significant BW descents, if they're ridges etc that's fine, if we want to have a best cheeky descent thread as well that's fine by me but might upset some of the locals.
Edit: when I say BW I don't mean to exculde BOATs and restricted byways either obvs.
Apologies – I thought that was a bridleway, though didn’t actually check.
That's what I say when I get called out for riding on a footpath by an Irate rambler 😉
Warnscale's got to be at, or near, the top of the list for technicality, iirc correctly I'm sure I read somewhere it was supposed to be the hardest descent in the UK?
(it's got to be one of the toughest to get up to?)
Depends how you define the most difficult...
It's certainly one of the harder ones, and one of the hardest that mere mortals have a chance in hell of riding cleanly. But even by that definition I'm not sure whether it takes top spot or not
Apologies – I thought that was a bridleway, though didn’t actually check.
Oops. How embarrassing. I knew there was something I forgot to mention on Saturday Mark
🥵😫🥵
Soz.
There's an out and back be on harter isn't there?
There's one on the duddon harter too although I think that comes under the "suicide mission" category
Warnscale's definitely tricky, but I'd say Nan Bield north to Haweswater, Rossett Gill or High Crag down to Scarth Gap are all harder. It's splitting hairs though, as they've all got their moments
I've added a few descents I'm curious about to the bottom of the provisional list in the hope that someone who knows what they're taking about.
If we're adding to the main list can we stick them where we think they fit on the list otherwise its gonna get confusing fast.
I also added some to the bottom that appear in guide books but I've not yet done. Hopefully someone can fill some blanks and slot them into order.
Can we add numbers? Might make it a bit easier to talk about.
Looking at the list, I'd say Wharnscales could potentially go above scarth gap - the hardest bits of scarth gap are (debatably) harder than the hardest bits or Wharnscales. On the other hard, Wharnscales is on average harder - there's more nails sections and the whole thing is pretty relentless, whereas with scarth gap the hard bits are very hard but short lived and interspersed with easy single-track.
I'd also say birk side is too far up the list. Personally I'd put it between sticks and scarth gap.
I suspect were likely to find a lot of differences of opinion due to riding style etc. Also for the harder stuff on the list, if you've only tried once or twice it may seem harder than if you've had a few goes and worked out the best line
New stuff:
Watendlath - between Scarth gap and blacksail pass? The steep rocky bit is fairly hard (though short)
Allerdale ramble - not sure what you're referring to. Looked this up but wasn't obvious which descent is on it
Dollywaggon - maybe just above Greenup edge to grasmere. The fix the fells section is steep with some wheel swallowing water bars
Iron keld - there's like 4 descents here. The bridleway north is maybe between walna scar and gatesgarth
Skiddaw - maybe after Garburn pass to troutbeck?
Skiddaw house to Bassenthwaite - never done it in descent but somewhere round the top of the list
High street to hartsop - never done it in descent. The grassy section from the knott is crazy steep but there's nothing that technically challenging iirc
Materdale common - not done it
Blacksail to ennerdale - never ridden and unlikely to do so - its a waste of your altitude
Is it worth having a star system like with rock climbing? Zero to three stars depending on the quality of the route.
Maybe have some indication of sections that are normally unrideable? So e.g. styhead pass to wasdale could be graded like 2(U) - its 2 overall but there's a bit you can't really ride.
Also some climbing grading systems use multiple grades to give the overall difficulty and the difficulty of individual bits. This is useful as it lets you know if it's hard all the way, or easy with one hard bit. My suggestions is stick with the 1 to 5 we have, but maybe an overall grade, and a grade for bits that are significantly different from the rest? Or is this too complicated?
If by Skiddaw we mean Ullock Pike, then it needs to be removed as it's a FP. Soz
Sounds like a great idea, but unfortunately I don't know enough of the trails mentioned to truly contribute. Keen to tick off plenty more if there's any rides I can tag along to!
There'll never be 100% consensus, but I think we've all been pretty much in agreement on the 1-4 difficulty gradings so far.
Is it worth having a star system like with rock climbing? Zero to three stars depending on the quality of the route.
I did contemplate this, but thought it leaves it too open to personal taste so opted for the notes instead
If by Skiddaw we mean Ullock Pike, then it needs to be removed as it’s a FP. Soz
I took this to mean the bridleway to the summit (more often used as the climb to do Ullock pike...)
I took this to mean the bridleway to the summit (more often used as the climb to do Ullock pike…)
Correct - I've changed the name to clarify
I did contemplate this, but thought it leaves it too open to personal taste so opted for the notes instead
That's a fair point. Just thinking if people want to use this as a ticklist, there's stuff on there that would be must-do bucket list descents, and stuff that you should probably actively avoid (or at least things I'd only ride if there's no other way to join up some better trails to make a loop)
Blacksail to ennerdale – never ridden and unlikely to do so – its a waste of your altitude
Is that because its boring or unrideable just wondering about it as a there and back appraicaite that the "correct" way to do it is as part of the 4 passes.
Is that because its boring or unrideable just wondering about it as a there and back appraicaite that the “correct” way to do it is as part of the 4 passes.
Some steep rock that wouldn't be rideable, then mellow, marshy fields
Scarth or Sty Head would be better to do in the 'wrong' way if you wanted a there and back.
I think someone else summed it up earlier - there's a couple of tricky rocks, but you'd lose most of your height on boggy grass
Just on a tangent, can anyone tell me if Parkamoor is currently worth the descent. I last did it possibly 10 years ago and had read on here it got sanitised, but that's a few years ago. Has it gone back to anything like of old??
Some steep rock that wouldn’t be rideable, then mellow fields.
Scarth or Sty Head would be better to do in the ‘wrong’ way if you wanted a there and back.
Which way is the right way for scarth though? Probably gets ridden into ennerdale a lot to do the 4 passes, but I'd say into buttermere is the 'right' way, but I do have a mild obsession with borderline unrideable descents...
Easiest way to do scarth that way is start at bowness knot, head down the fireroad then over the pass. To get back go along the south side of buttermere. Then either carry on along crummock for a km or so and follow the boggy bridleway (mostly carrying/pushing up) to floutern tarn. The descent here is nice enough but nothing special. You can also get on the road at buttermere village and ride along the north side of crummock. Cut through langthwaite wood to loweswater, then head up mosedale. This is longer but more of it is rideable. Both ways involve bogs, long tussock grass and some pushing.
Actually maybe just going there and back is easier, plus if you walk up scarth you can weigh up line choice
All interesting what i had been considering was Scarth Gap to ennerdale, Blacksail > Wasdale, Blacksail > ennerdale, back by floutern tarn thus avoiding ending up on the wrong side of Honnister at the end of a long day.
Also some climbing grading systems use multiple grades to give the overall difficulty and the difficulty of individual bits. This is useful as it lets you know if it’s hard all the way, or easy with one hard bit. My suggestions is stick with the 1 to 5 we have, but maybe an overall grade, and a grade for bits that are significantly different from the rest? Or is this too complicated?
Climbing has a lot to teach us - what better way to have an argument then give every trail a (complicated) grade, followed by ethical argy-bargy on how / if one should ride said trail 🙂
Honestly though it sounds like useful stuff - taking an underwhelming route off a mountain really sucks when you've worked your balloches off getting up there, vice versa not everyone wants death on wheels in Lakes descents, so having an expectation of tech level is v helpful.
Just on a tangent, can anyone tell me if Parkamoor is currently worth the descent. I last did it possibly 10 years ago and had read on here it got sanitised, but that’s a few years ago. Has it gone back to anything like of old??
I did it last month and it isn't worth going out your way in my opinion. It's been filled with very loose rock and fill and isn't the challenge it once was. Hodge Close/Oxen Fell seems to have also been done with a load of loose rock just making it feel like lumpy scree with hardly any bedrock to ride over.
Excellent idea for a thread OP and love the list thus far. Will have to mull over the list later, there are a few I'd reorder, several on my "to do" list and a few I haven't done in years and years that might be worth revisiting based on the comments. Great work.
Climbing has a lot to teach us – what better way to have an argument then give every trail a (complicated) grade, followed by ethical argy-bargy on how / if one should ride said trail 🙂
Haha yeah there's a lot of scope for it. Different grades depending on suspension and wheel size, with 'Purists' insisting on doing everything on a rigid 26er with canti brakes. 'Onsight' vs redpoint if you had a few goes, or worked if you practice bits separately etc.
Haha yeah there’s a lot of scope for it. Different grades depending on suspension and wheel size, with ‘Purists’ insisting on doing everything on a rigid 26er with canti brakes. ‘Onsight’ vs redpoint if you had a few goes, or worked if you practice bits separately etc.
well obviously you can't tick it if you dabbed 😉
All this was ridden before tubeless tyres young'un
Motivated by this I ticked off a couple I'd not done before; up Helvellyn via Kepple Cove, descending via Dollywagon and Grisedale. Done in 3 hours, navigation was straighforward and the descent more than justified the climb which was far more reasonable than expected (I've only been up Striding Edge before). A fair amount of snow on top but the descents were clear.
I've relegated Dollywagon a spot, Wharnscale is definitely harder.
Grisedale I've added a note.
funnily enough, that route you describe (Langstrath, Stake, Rossett, Styhead etc) features in the next edition of the mag. It’s a brilliant loop, one of my favourites
Roughly how long did this take please? I'd been looking at similar but parking in Wasdale to allow both descents of Sty Head
Yeah, Dollywagon is considerably easier than Wharnscale. There's maybe one short section with really challenging waterbars on Dollywagon, while Wharnscale is consistently challenging along the majority of the descent.
Langstrath/Stake/Rossett/Styhead is a 4 to 5 hour ride. My moving time on Strava from when I shot it for the mag was 4.5 hours.
Roughly how long did this take please? I’d been looking at similar but parking in Wasdale to allow both descents of Sty Head
Hi Mark. I was going to ask if you fancied the Rosset, styhead, langsttath, stake route with a cheeky Borrowdale Bash inserted in the middle of it. ( Working on the assumption you'd need something new to tempt you that way again)
Give me a shout if you do fix a date for this as I'd love to do it
a cheeky Borrowdale Bash inserted in the middle of it.
You mean one descent? or a whole loop?
Not sure I've got the legs for adding much on to a 5 hour ride!
Keen to do it but pinning down a date may be an issue. I need to start taking some afternoons off work to get all the rides on my to do list done.
Bittova thread resurrection.
Off to the Lakes this weekend and looking for some inspiration, so dug up this thread. Was actually surprised to find that I've done quite a few of these.
However, I've not done:
Iron Keld
Stake pass
Scarth Gap
Sticks West
Boredale Hause
Grisedale Hause
Greenup
Grisedale Hause.... do you mean south from Gridedale Tarn down Great Tongue? Is that the one?
I've seen Various comments about Greenup. Is this a sandbag? Is it actually hell on earth and just put in the list to catch out people like me?
Current vague plan is Loadpot Hill, Cockpit, Boredale up them down the other one, perhaps a there and back on Ullswater Bridleway one day. If we did do Boredale, iscit best to do Boredale Head- Boredale Hause - Bannerdale or the other way round?
Perhaps Rosset, Styhead, Stake another day, with an optimistic option of Wharnscale/ Honnister if we're feeling brave.
I could of course try some of the difficult ones which I've only carried upwards, eg Nan Bield, but would like to try something completely new.
Anyone got any good suggestions of routes that tick some good passes?
The other possible plan is Ullock Pike ( Friday)
I still think the hardest continuous piece of singletrack in the lakes is the eastern edge of Ullswater, south to north.
And here I mean clean the entire rolling stretch, not on an electric cheater bike, without a dab or a stop to take a breather.
The top few switchbacks of nan bield can be cheeky if loose tho?
