Forum menu
been riding flats for a month or so on rocky steep terain.... great for sesioning sections but just cant seem to let go and flow (grrr!) cant seem to keep the bike with me little confidence at picking the rear end up at will ..........any tips? was thinking learning to j-hop would help (course booked with Ed in may)
where are the pedals in relation to the sole of your foot?
its taken a while to feel better about mid sole
axel near arch of foot.
pick the rear up????? you mean unweight it?
i found commuting with flats very useful for this. it just gave me the time to mess around with them that i needed. on very easy terrain.
yeah axel near arch ,and yes to unweight or in my world keep it with me, been bucked a few times which got my heart pumping I am thinking with flats you have to be more pro active about the terain maybe clips have lulled me into lazyness
heals down? all times?
I've found a similar problem,I have no problem doing drops on DH type trails but XC stuff freaks me out(I use the same bike for both) ie. the 2 drops towards the end of windy point on Whites are no problem on spd's but i'm useless using flats).No idea why this is happening but i've only been using flats for xc use since the new year.Maybe i'll just use spds for xc and flats for jumps/bmx and DH stuff
mkaes no difference what pedals you use if technique is there
heals down for decending steep ,probably not on technical ,mind to busy calculating the myriad of pain possibilities (45 years alive!)
if you can buy longer pins for your pedals eg terror puns for DMR pedals, really aids grip and increases confidence.
Take confidence in the fact you can jump free from flats if you need too!
I'm no expert but I'd say avoid going down the route of getting bigger pins / better pedals until you've got the technique sorted, it'll just mask poor technique which will give you problems. Heels down, legs bent and staying relaxed is what works for me. For some reason in the last month I stopped putting my heels down and had a couple of big bounce off the pedals moments before I realised what I was doing, now back doing it 'right' and feeling secure on the pedals again. I'll say it again though, I'm no expert, Jedi and Ed will no doubt give you better advice.
I've really no idea how to ride flats anymore but when I've had the misfiortune to use them, I've found a lot more confidence and 'grip' when I push my heels down - no idea why but it seems to plant the foot on the pedal more...it appears that whilst riding SPDs I don't do this. I've started doing this and found a bit more confidence and speed downhill - no idea why but it seems to make things work better.
(Probably all in my head - but if Jedi suggests heels down then there must be some logic to it!)
heals down on both spds and flats
Heels down helps you "push" the bike over any rocks and stops it stalling or bouncing your feet off the pedals. I use flats all the time, consider your shoes too. I use 5 10's and after years of using off road trainers the 5 10's are next level! really really good! the pedals seem to stick to the shoes all the time. I did the Whinlatter race last weekend and saw loads of riders struggling with spd's on downhills or tight singletrack due to them being lazy with body position including pedals, ie no heels down causing them to stall and then crash!
Cheap / nasty flats are a real problem as are some of the poorer designed more expensive ones. 50/50's spring to mind there- as the spindle body is the highest part of the pedal there's no cocave for for foot to sit into(yes, I know Sam Hill seems to manage alright). As has been mentioned earlier, move your foot into a more forward position than you would if you were clipped in as this will help stop your foot coming off the pedal in a backwards direction and never fully straighten your knees, this stops your feet lifting and coming off sideways.
Stuart
It also helps if you have more weight on your feet on rough stuff - don't have your full weight on the saddle - just use it as a support.
You don't HAVE to learn how to ride flat pedals, I know someone who is an ex nps champ (vet) who can't ride at all on flats...
"Don't have your full weight on the saddle" ... if you're riding something technical the most dangerous place you can ever be is sat down!
You need to keep your knees and elbows bent to help keep the flow with the bike. its not good to lock the limbs when riding flats! Also if you mean to pick the back end up to hop over rocks, then you'll need to learn to bunny hop properly (front wheel up and then back wheel)as its really the only way to get the back end of the ground. Its a good technique to lear to be honest.
just back from a ride bent knees check ,instep over axle check, look ahead ,more active ie pumping check .......much better (after shower checked bollocks slightly bigger)still a bit nervous about muscling the bike around though useing 510's and v8 so cant really blame kit. Will practice unweighing the rear wheel. Thanks for youre help all
I Dont mean to be rude, but I dont think V8's are particulary great/grippy. I had them and switched to funn soljams and I cant stress how much of a difference it made. Bigger/more pins and a much larger pedal area. It gave me much more confidence to ride flats. wouldnt go back now.
(now bought a set of pethouse flats - so theres a set of sealed bearing Funn Soljams going for £25 bucks;) )
roll around a car park for an hour picking the back wheel up with your feet.
not bunnyhops. just use your feet. you'll get a lovely feel for 'scooping' and an idea of where the most grip is for you on your shoe/pedal combo.
scoop scoop scoop.
ChristoGinger dont think my pedals are holding me back at the moment I think my problem is technique and confidence.Tracknicko the only way I can get the rear up at the mo is with a bit of a pump, revolve on the pedals and hip thrust (hope that makes sence)will practice some more
When I first made the change to flats I found that really grippy pedals helped me keep my feet with the bike.........but as my technique improved I've lost the need for that and cheaper pedals like V 8's aren't a problem anymore. In fact I'm verging toward appreciating slightly less grippy pedals as it's easier to shuffle my feet into the 'sweet spot'
Perseverance is everything. It took me months and months to feel as happy on flats as I did on SPD's. Now the only time I regret having flat pedals is on techy climbs (but I'm far too lazy to care much about that now!)
I think its more a lack of confidence for me. Like I say I find spd's fine for everyday stuff, i've got flats on my DH and jump bikes. As soon as I try the v12's on the prophet it all goes to pot, I rode the black at whites without problem(jumping the little tables etc)then had a lack of confidence moment on the two drops at the end of windy point (the two slabs on the right side of the trail).
I'm wondering if its a saddle height problem, obviously the jump and DH bikes have the saddle out of the way but on XC rides I dont drop the saddle much (most of the singletrack has pedally bits in it)
Ah well , its either persevere or back to spds for me
pick the rear up with your feet??? unweight it never lift/pick it up
I'm the total opposite, i cannot seem to get on with SPD's, i have a right problem with them, mainly mentally, constant fear of crashing with them. I much prefer flats, probably would still crash but subconciously feels better or "safer" to me.
pick the rear up with your feet??? unweight it never lift/pick it up
Eh, surely to bunny hop you need to 'pick up' the rear no?
I run my saddle a bit lower on climbs/flat bits when using flat pedals. For the fun bits it goes right down out of the way.
Go out and practice unweighting the rear and learning to hop every night on and off some kerbs for the next month and you'll be sorted. Neighbours will think you are mad, but they can't hop and now you can.
suartnickloson, no you dont!
pick the rear up with your feet??? unweight it never lift/pick it up
But all those magazine articles about learning to bunnyhop (aimed at us motals who can't jump) say to pull the bars up and then magically lift the rear of the bike up by 'scooping' the back of the bike up using the pedals with your toes pointing downwards. Eh?
And I thought the euthanasia debate was a confusing subject...
suartnickloson, no you dont!
As bananaworlds post, the technique involves pointing toes and gripping the pedal. You saying you can bunny hop with flat feet, ie just by unweighting not gripping?
yes!
you dont grip the pedals or pull the bars.
First video i found and you can clearly see him point his foot to grip as he's extended.
Surley if you dont pull the bars then the front wont leave the ground. 
stuart, you NEVER pull the bars when riding mtb unless in the air
pointing your feet happens naturally when you are in the air. it is not gripping!
your toes point to the ground when we are in the air. its evolution baby!
So if you dont pull the bars or grip the pedals (the only contact points) then how do you bunny hop then?
Have to say you've confused the hell out of me!
stuart, i emailed you to explain.
pointing your feet happens naturally when you are in the air. it is not gripping!
your toes point to the ground when we are in the air. its evolution baby!
Seen plenty people spd hopping with flat feet. Pointing is surely a trained reacting of being able to bunny hop properly.
stuart, no mate you are wrong.
Just bought some flats, in nearly 30 years of riding, only used spds for 2 1/2 years..but those two ish years have seen me cover perhaps 20000 miles as a courier in london and the result is... gonna be shit on flats, got so so used to spds that now i need to learn it all again, but that should be like riding a bike eh! It gets all to easy having your feet clamped to your pedals.. Looking forward to shin truama.
Sorry Jedi, I'm with stuart on this one. I defo "pull" up on my bars to get the front wheel of the ground do a wiggle then lift/assist the back end up with my feet on me pedals. It must work cos I can can bunnyhop around 8.5ft high 😉
edit: give or take a few feet either way
i can drive a car using my feet on the steering wheel but it don't make it right 🙂
http://www.mb7.com/theclan/media.html
3rd video down with detailed instuctions after...not your described technique...
So is this way 'like driving a car with your feet'?