[Closed] King of the mountains (Lakes climbing gods)

video/link please I dont think skiddaw is cleanable at the bottom zig zags

oh forgot to add it was Kepple cove clean on Helvellyn.

Good effort on Skiddaw!

can they actually ride downhill though - or are they of the breed that is good up and rubbish down 😛

If its who I think it is then yes Ive seen them ride the switchbacks & yes they are pretty handy when gravity kicks in as well..

The trick is to do it very early in the morning because the earth is still tilting over to the left a bit and the hills aren't quite as steep.

This is why people always ride up Snowdon before breakfast I think.

What is there secret then ambrosia food of the gods?

The secret for Stoney (off-of here) is to have a gang of girls walking down Jenkin Hill as you're riding up 😉

Skiddaw is cleanable for me from back of skiddaw then via the track up from skiddaw house. I've got up kepple cove zigzags dab free and get up Great Dodd, walna, garburn west, gatesgarth south (waves the willy! 😳 ) etc..... But can I heckers get up the zigzags on Jenkin hill on Skiddaw dab free. 95% is doable for me but its now very rough and loose in places and relentlessly steep....... Its hard enough just getting to the first gate without slipping out.
So it will be doable but some of the bagging stories are taken with a pinch of salt as a 100% dap free bag is a big big ask even if your racing elite and conditions are perfect..... and putting your foot down even once is a fail.

Cleaned Helvellyn via Kepple Cove but that was when I was very fit and could ride up anything steeper than a disabled ramp. Was on my 7+ so coming back down was much more fun. Before that only just failed a few times with a couple of dabs or dramatic topple over still clipped in.

Tried Skiddaw many moons ago rode up a good way but the weather turned awful so we were forced to come back down. Some how just never ridden it since.

I'd be lucky not to be pushing by the quarry now on the way up Helvellyn.

Drac/anc How much riding were you doing to clean Kepple cove, i know a certain amount of luck is involved on the loose sections, but fitness wise, i'm just trying to get a pointer, to maybe delude myself that with some hard work it could be achievable.

I ride regularly and do a bit of fell running. I used to race more and be fairly competitive trailquester and do the Fred Whitton every year. Kids and age are getting the better of me now Last Enduro/race I did was whinlatter were I came in the top 20. Riding these climbs is part luck as you say, fitness and lots of techy climbing practice which riding in the lakes is hard to avoid.

Cheers anc a straight answer, Drac i smell BS.

I was riding pretty much every day and had been for a few years. There was degree of luck especially on the rocky craggy section but have some leg strength helped. Now I'm lucky to ride once a week if that so have no fitness.

Why Fergal it's no different to you claiming you seen someone, I did do it but probably safe to say a one off.

Drac just joshing, you said on a 7+ isn't that a DH bike?

I reckon with Skiddaw that if you can get up the first bit to the gate, you'll clear the rest ok, there's just one hard bit after that and plenty of time to recover.

I looked at it a couple of years ago as after they put the motorway up there it's mostly just a decent technique and a lot of fitness.

It's a monster yeah but it rides uphill to it was the only bike used at one time xc the lot, heavy but doesn't mean you can't ride up if you have the fitness. Also makes getting over rough ground easier as the back wheel always has contact pretty much.

fergal, my Bullit climbs really well on techy stuff because it sits in it's travel and forces the wheel to grip, with U-turn lyriks it's an awesome climber, geometry is ok and grip gets you through all the loose bits without having to put your foot down. You would want to be very fit to clean a long climb like Skiddaw on it, but I reckon it's far from impossible if you have the right legs on.

Have been to the Alps and seen what some instructors ride, they can ride big burly bikes up alpine slopes because they have the fitness. That's what I had lots of fitness, Saturday I struggled on the heckler on a ride with not so challenging climbs. I pushed many in the end which is embarrassing when I think how I use to ride. I making my mission to gain some fitness back this year.

OK i stand corrected! need them legs, so a few have done these climbs, still a pretty unusual event i would have thought, or more common than people think.

i have seen stoney ride up some stuff in the lakes that i can only just walk up..................awesome climbing ability.

I've never ridden up that way, anyone got any pics of what these climbs look like ?

Kev

[img] [/img]

The zigzag path in the middle right is Jenkin

[img] [/img]

and Kepple cove zigzags

Don't underestimate the value of a good set of baws in climbing - I've known plenty of averagely fit guys who could clean brutal short to medium climbs. They basically have the attitude that they would rather have a cardiac arrest and be carried off in a box then fail to make the climb. Mix in good technique and I'd imagine this mindset takes you a long way.

For the monster climbs though then yeah you must need the fitness. The fit racers just have a couple of extra gears at their disposal - they can redline it uphill for 20 mins then when the climb hits a particularly steep pitch they can still dig in.

Ok, I’ll bite. I’ve ridden the main Skiddaw climb clean as well as the Helvellyn switchbacks of despair and the new switchbacks that lead to the summit of Whiteless Pike. I make no claims to be a climbing legend nor do I race. I’ve yet to manage Garburn from the Staveley side in one go. Ridden all the sections but not in one go and given the way the path has deteriorated in the last couple of years, I reckon it's gotten a lot harder of late. My mate has video of me cleaning the stuff at the top after several abortive attempts – cue much swearing then cheering when I finally rode it. Ha! Ha! I guess just bloody mindedness, a bit of fitness and a 20 tooth inner is the key to big climbs. The latter makes a huge difference, even if it is only psychological when matched to a 32 rear. Part of the challenge is looking at the trail and thinking it will go even if it is loose or steep or both. Having walkers going up and coming down is extra motivation and their words of encouragement definitely help. Don't stop when you just think of stopping, only stop when you literally can go no further and the trail stops you.

For Skiddaw, I rode with Pete from Biketreks who saw me ride it all. I stopped once on an easy shallow section on the way up to take pictures of the guys coming up behind me pushing but reckon it can be done in one go. We headed off route to do a carry to the small summit before the main peak before dropping back down to the main path where we broke off and riding all the way to the summit. I usually drop tyre pressure to maximise grip on the loose stuff as well as wind down the forks. Full sus is a major help too as is a Trailraker at the back. After that, it’s just a case of sit and spin.

The Skiddaw climb is marvellous since they put in the new path. Previously, it was grassy, lumpy and bumpy.

So there you go. Superhuman my buhoochie! Just a bit determined and I really enjoy the challenge of a big climb as opposed to viewing climbs as something to be endured. Give it a go, you may well be surprised at what you can ride up.

Never tried Jacob’s Ladder in a oney but fancy giving it a go. When I rode it, we came down it. When I got to the gate, I turned round and rode back up to the top (nae dabs) just to see what it was like. I’d dropped my saddle a bit for it which is counter intuitive but made the difference for the step up section near the top. I also took my time and went easy on the easy bits. I reckon the killer section would be the first bit – super loose. If you get past that, fitness would definitely come into play.

Hope this makes sense and not me trying to blow my own trumpet? Big climbs are definitely something to be savoured.

Cheers

Sanny

PS Just because you haven't been able to do it doesn't mean someone else can't! 😀

You guys are so modest, the thing is i guess i do not know what is considered the norm for elite riders, being relatively new to this game, there you go have the polka dot jersey on me.

Sanny funny you mention jacobs ladder, i was just pondering how it would compare, to think you would even stand a chance, is a little revealing, i mean how many have done it, it's a bit of an urban myth that anyone has done it isn't it?

I've heard Nick craig's done it

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mbr-jacobs-ladder/page/2

I take any forum claims of people clearing it with a hefty dose of scepticism seeing as even Nick Craig has only ever cleared it in one go on about 3 occasions.

I'm amazed that anyone can clean the zig-zags up Skiddaw. 😯
I was reasonably fit (not like when I used to race, though,)when I tried it some years ago and am pretty handy climbing technique-wise, but I was WAY off the mark!!!

Hi Fergal

Not sure what I have revealed but hey ho! 😀 Like I said, this isn't about me claiming to be a climbing legend. I have no such pretensions. However, I love the challenge of steep techy climbs and I think that is probably the key. If you dread the steep stuff, chances are you've already set yourself up to fail.

If memory serves, I think Crazy Legs on the forum has done Jacob's Ladder. I'm sure What MTB documented it being ridden a year or so back. These things are as much about getting lucky as having the legs and the climb until you drop attitude.

For Helvellyn, my mate Ross cleaned it the same time as me. He's not your typical lean, mean, riding machine but as Garry Lager says, he just keeps going and has the mental strength to push through the pain.

Cheers

from back of skiddaw then via the track up from skiddaw house

anc - what's that track like?

I'm amazed that anyone can clean the zig-zags up Skiddaw.

I don't think I'm a million miles away from being able to climb Skiddaw. There's no way I could do Jacobs Ladder though, completely different kettle of fish. The point re Garburn and erosion is a good one to bear in mind, I don't know if Jacobs has deteriorated since the various claims of clearing it?

One climb that is tough, but easily achievable with a little training is the climb from Hollins Cross to the Top of Mam Tor. It's a good place to learn about climbing fitness and how what seems impossible at first becomes possible with a bit more training. There's a section near the top that is significantly steeper and looser than the rest, the first few times I did it I thought it was impossible, but being a bit fitter meant I got up to it in better shape and had enough in reserve to get through it, then a bit of bloodymindedness was all that was required to get to the summit. After doing that I can see how what seems impossible to me, wouldn't be with a decent set of legs.

from back of skiddaw then via the track up from skiddaw house

anc - what's that track like?

Its wet and boggy so its to be done in the summer or when frozen. You aim for the post on the horizon behind the house, after that there is a little downhill to a kick up which is the crux of the climb then its just a slog to the last gate before the summit.

I stopped once on an easy shallow section on the way up to take pictures of the guys coming up

Nooooo, Sanny why'd you stop!!! its not a bag, you could have been in the 'Lakes Mafia Hall of Fame'.

Anc

I stopped to take photos! I'm not so hung up on the have to do it in one go thing. Of course, now you've got me thinking that next time I'll have to do it. Ha! Ha! I didn't set out with the objective of doing it in one continuous go but as I got over the steep stuff, I realised it would go. However, the weather was too nice and the views too good not to stop and snap off some shots.

I reckon a fair few Lakes locals will have done it but don't post about it here.

😆

Thanks. Thought that might be the case.

Anyone cleaned Walna Scar from Seathwaite side? Ive seen all the upper section done but never the bottom section.

not sure about the luck thing that is being thrown around a bit. there's a small bit of luck involved sure, but making the right decisions about what lines to take and technique surely makes your luck - i.e. that time when your wheel slipped out on an isolated rock causing you to dab which you put down to bad luck could have been avoided if you spotted it! so i personally would never say that i was lucky or unlucky to clean a climb.

psychology plays a massive part too i think, which i think someone else tries mentioned briefly. when i'm climbing i'm constantly setting myself different targets; to the next brow, through this loose section etc etc. it's all part of the choosing lines/vision/technique thing again, but determination to get to your next goal is maybe where a lot of people fail.

goals and targets are also important for letting you manage your energy levels too as they are often dictated by a difficult (steep/techy) section. it helps if you know the climb and what to expect, but if you know for example you are coming up to a loose bit you can conserve your energy by riding slowly right up to the start, then really spin through the next section (kind of sprinting, where fitness comes in) before being able to rest again. the climb up from Dubbs Res to the top of Garburn is pretty good for this as there are a couple of difficult sections about half way up.

only tried skiddaw once last summer & didn't do too well but will be having another crack this year. it's definitely manageable. gonna find me a 20t granny though as i usually have a 24t. i've cleaned garburn from dubbs, and only 1 dab on walna the other week (just ran out of fuel).

@anc - cleaning gatescarth from sadgill....that's pretty fricking impressive if it's true! the bottom section with the constant motion reducing cobbles is just horrible and so long, the steep zigzags after the gate are then proper steep in places, do-able, but loads of effort after what you would have just endured!

I did most of the Helvellyn zigzags 6 or 7 years back. It was blowing a hoolie which was the big issue - the cross wind was making me wobble too much. I've also done Jacob's up to the gate in a oner (once), but I've always then run out of puff on the steep slabbed section at the top.

Now? With the right bike(a mid travel full sus which I don't currently have), I reckon I could still give the zigzags a fair go. Jacob's is far too eroded/loose/rocky. I would need a damn good reason to make the effort though. Current mindset is more to save the energy for the downs...

As others have said, it's as much about sheer bloody mindedness and pain management as "fitness", although willpower alone won't work!

a lot shorter and i'm sure a few folk probably have but anyone cleaned from watendlath bridge to the top of that climb or along the slightly cheeky footpath to watendlath and then the climb as well?

steep zigzags after the gate

This is the hard bit the first 2 zigzags are the crux. I take a wide line on the verge its firmer there the main body is too loose. Its a real balancing act as theres a drop to your left. But its doable as you get such a big rest after the gate. After that it gets easiler and there was no way I'm getting off once the first 2 are cleared.
The cobbles are ok as long as its dry. Its just a case of actively resting on the less steep sections, then attacking the harder stuff. My Ellsworth Epiphany also makes a big different, can't do it on my hardtail.

a lot shorter and i'm sure a few folk probably have but anyone cleaned from watendlath bridge to the top of that climb or along the slightly cheeky footpath to watendlath and then the climb as well?

Now then my ex-nextdoornneighbour how's it going?
I've got up Watendlath when the snow was filling the gaps.... but thats cheating. Normally I have to dab round the corner on the rock step-ups half way up that straight. So I've never done it without a dab, but I reckon others will have. The footpath before the climb isn't cleanable because of the steps to the gate half way along.

fair play then! yep the first two zig zags are nuts steep & definitely need to be able to swing out wide and cut through the apex when needed.

i still hate the cobbles, but would like to give it a shot fresh legged and on the correct bike - the two or three time i have done it i have been on a 170mm 38lb FS and have already come from Staveley via Garburn!

If memory serves, I think Crazy Legs on the forum has done Jacob's Ladder. I'm sure What MTB documented it being ridden a year or so back. These things are as much about getting lucky as having the legs and the climb until you drop attitude.

Sanny, thanks for your high opinion of my climbing abilities but I've never come close to clearing Jacobs Ladder in one go. I was there on the What MTB photoshoot when Nick Craig and a couple of other guys cleared it. That was perfect weather for it but it's still worth mentioning that Paul Oldham (current National CX Champion) didn't manage to make it either!

Rode the Watendlath climb clean a few years back on my old Turner. It was a beautiful day and the trail was bone dry. Again, teeny gears, soft rear tyre and a healthy dollop of wanting to do it was the key. I'm sure my mate Mark has pics of me doing it.

Never tried going up Gatesgarth from the side with the water whose name I've forgotten. That looks reet loose. Ridden it clean and no dabs from the Staveley side though the three times I've ridden it. It's not as bad as it looks. I reckon Skiddaw is the bigger challenge.

Walna Scar - never ridden it clean from bottom to top as the gate in the middle has been shut each time thus doesn't count I guess as opening the gate gives breather time!

It's funny, sometimes the slower you go on such climbs, the easier it becomes and the more likely you are to stay on. Trackstands can definitely be your friend!

You guys are so unfashionable...chapeau!

Gatesgarth on my old Soda but can't remember from which side, I'll have to check when I get home. Got to be in the right frame of mind if you think you're gonna fail you will, it's amazing what a positive attitude can make to a climb.

Never tried Skiddaw so that's something I could aim for this year 🙂

younggeoff

I think you will find that climbing is the new downhill 😀

Just had to do a bit of work! good to hear experiences.
@Drac bit of an old mountain goat aye, any chance of you compiling a list of the must do climbs in the Cheviots to earn my wings!.

@Drac bit of an old mountain goat aye, any chance of you compiling a list of the must do climbs in the Cheviots to earn my wings!.

Ermm! I'll have a think but can't think of any really tough ones, it's not like the Lakes. There's a few but your talking short section as opposed to long tough climbs.

Yeah i know in the grand scheme of things they are shorter and less technical, but there must be some local test pieces for mere mortals.

climbing is the new downhill

yes, Dirt is changing its name to Clean
Titanium flying pig anyone?

Yeah i know in the grand scheme of things they are shorter and less technical, but there must be some local test pieces for mere mortals.

Hmmm! I'll give it some thought but as I say your talking a short section and that's it.

I cleared Skiddaw twice last year, 1 of those i was being watched by a couple of young honnies....Parktiger mentioed earlier 🙄

Allmost cleared Watendlath a couple of weeks ago in the wet bar a a couple of dabs....

Also cleared the Grzedale right hand ridge (until the carry at the top)

Thanks for your comments Ton....don`t forget that i was ss at the time 😉

By cleared do you mean dab free and no rest at the gate. If so that's impressive Andy.

I cleared Skiddaw twice last year

We keep telling him it's bad putting all that strain on his chain 😉

Anybody climbed out of the ladybower side up to cutgate? I can do it the other way but not from ladybower. I think it would be possible with good fitness, the right types and conditions. I do like the buzz of conquering a techy bit without the aid of gravity.

I keep trying that Watendlath to Rosthwaite climb!!..one day,I can usually get around the first corner from the tarn but thats about it..

or the rocky climb up and onto Lonscale terrace,never managed that one yet 😥

Your`re right PT....i did snap my chain on another attempt 😐 Missed the nads on the top tube as well. 😯

Much to your amusement i seem to remember....... 😆

a lot shorter and i'm sure a few folk probably have but anyone cleaned from watendlath bridge to the top of that climb or along the slightly cheeky footpath to watendlath and then the climb as well?
etc
etc

Cleared 95% of said river path to Watendlath on the same day i mentioned earlier. There are 3 bit`s that are very hard....A tree near the start that is very hard to get round, a rocky click with a steam running through it (got to the steam) and the steps....Cleared the rest......
This was after coming over Walla as well...

anc going much better that i've just got back from a run up at whinlatter, got to work on that fitness if i want a top 400 place at whinlatter next month, must dust off the mtn bike as well 😀

Ayup M. 😉 I here your into Tri now. Been riding with Boney recently he's going well and concentrating on the Tri's this year. I didn't run past you in a car on friday a whinlatter did I?

Fergal have you tried the track up to the border ridge past heatherhope reservoir and to the left. Not technical but steep and relentless. Could try from the usway up clennel street then along the border ridge but there are some wicket in the way.

Right so it looks like Jenkin is the one to clear. Many people have rode it all in sections but to bag it, its got to be bottom to top, no stopping at the gate to wait for your buddies, photo ops(sorry Sanny) dabs, breathers pretending to look at the view etc etc.... Come on STW'ers we have a challenge for 2011 otherwise Junkyard is technically right.

anc, is Boney the lad with the goatee, if so i see him at running on a wed, yep doing a few tri's and half marathons this year. little ones seem to make time for mtbing diff. although gettin gup at 5.30am for swimming is pretty hard. no not me at whinlatter fri. should be there early sat this week.

His names Steve, he may have had a goaty but not at the mo, Think he just joined the local tri club. He knows Thorpy and Ian F. Got to know him through Mike and Dan, he's quite strong on the bike and training v hard. Probably too hard as his knees playing up at the mo.

not who i was thinking of but i think i know who u mean, a good runner too.

Anybody climbed out of the ladybower side up to cutgate?

I've ridden all of it, but never in one go. Usually manage to ride all the hairpins clean, then **** up the easy straights. One of those climbs that will "go" one day, but it'll need a good dollop of luck.

My mate Dibley (aka Martin Brookes who was one of the guys who cleaned Jacobs in that WMB article a couple of years back)cleared it with seeming ease on a Yeti 4x bike with a single ring, a road cassette and the saddle down, which was pretty unreal to watch. He just well, pedalled up it. Fit, unused to the idea of failure, great bike handler. Git.

Dunno if it's the trails or my fitness eroding but first time I did Jacobs, watendlath and walna scar (seathwaite) I managed a respectable distance but have been back to all and failed to get anywhere near the same.

Skiddaw (until the gate) Kepple cove and Gatesgarth all look do-able, it's just the relentless incline, I'm redlining all the way and I just can't keep up that effort. I can get into the zone I can just about keep up with my breathing then I have to stand for a really tech bit and I lose it, breathing can't recover, lightheaded, dizziness, fall over etc. Local hills are tiny in comparison and not much good for training up for those monster climbs.

Is running best for improving lung function?

I also have been running this winter, last summer i hit a plateau after making some good progress sending a few local Nemesis, i'm really hoping running will increase lung and leg power, yet to put into practice as i haven't been on the steed properly for a few months.

Geda wrong side of the Border for me,does look relentless that climb on Monzie law, maybe attack "The Street" in the summer, on the to do list.

I was going to mention Dibley's climbing prowess, as JonEdwards say's it was unreal to watch his bike handling is phenominal really nice bloke too. Must try and get some fitness back this year and get my climbing legs back.

Would any of you climbing wads like to settle the question as to whether fell running improves your peformance or not, cross training is considered good is it not, i know the argument about cycling using different muscle groups and all that, but in practice what are your thoughts.

There seems to be very little anecdotal evidence out there pointing to an improvement or otherwise, perhaps Tri athletes would have a very good opinion on this, anyone 😕

Cycling and fell running complement each other extremely well, look at Rob Jebb, Ben Bardsley or Phil Davis. They all do both very successfully.

For me it's normally my lungs that give up first, there's more left in my legs but I just can't get enough oxygen ito myself. That's what I'm hoping running (up steep hills) will improve.