I have a 9yo son who is utterly obsessed with riding his bike. He loves everything about it, from the bikes themselves (he can spot electric shifters at 100 paces!), to the social element of mixing with his friends as well as racing competitively. But most of all...he just loves to ride.
Obviously he's picked this up from me as kids tend to do, but after starting very young on the traditional Islabikes riding flat trails, he moved to proper mountain biking and, over the last 2 years, to road, track and CX. I actually asked him the other day to list his favourite disciplines and he said:
1. MTB
2. CX
3. Road (long, social rides)
4. Grasstrack
5. The rest (meaning TTs, circuit racing etc.)
During the spring, I specifically reduced his racing as I didn't want him to get bored with the whole thing, and we just did more social riding with friends and family instead. But recently he's got back into racing and pretty much wants to spend every waking hour on the bike. A couple of weeks ago, we did his first proper long distance event (70 miles) and loved it so much, he has already said that he would like to do more of these. And this is where my concerns have started...
How much is too much?
I don't mean forcing them to ride when they don't want to. That really doesn't apply here - he'll ride his bike at the drop of a hat and very rarely does he complain when out. I'm more meaning about potential long-term damage to a growing body from doing so much cycling at a young age. I had a Google around, but couldn't really find much about this and, being honest, he's about 5 years younger than the youngest riders at many of the events we turn up to, so I'm not sure how common this situation is. As of now, he's about 40/60 by duration of competitive vs non-competitive riding. Maybe even more skewed to non-competitive cycling.
I don't really want to have to reduce his cycling, because he'd feel I was cutting his arm off, but I'm wonder if any other parents of keen cyclists have had the same concerns and how they have tackled this. I see other kids in his racing circle that do far more racing than him, but less (or virtually no) social and distance riding and their parents don't seem particularly concerned. Personally, as long as he still loves riding, I'm happy for him to do so, but the niggle is there in the back of my mind that, between us, we're not doing him any favours for the future.
Any thoughts?
As long as you:
have good bike fit
are running much shorter cranks than most manufacturers seem to think should be on kids/small people bikes
ensure he uses his gears... stomping pedlas vs young knees is less than ideal
make sure he does his stretches
help him understand how to control his breathing/heart rate
make sure you put him into a rotation of additional sports/activities to keep him from going stale
I'm not sure you should have any major concerns.
The only concern about how much riding my eldest does (aside from that he can't run without looking like he'll trip himself over) is that his skill set is up with kids 2-3 years older than him and he's technically able to go as big/fast as them but without the emotional maturity to deal with not being able to ride to *his* expectations.
Good luck!
We've looked at some of the awesome adventure rides that have been posted here and they've certainly given us inspiration for future holidays. Every time he's seen one, he declares that he wants to go and do it immediately!
Thanks for the practical tips. We've been working together on his general technique. His bikes are actually quite low geared, following the general guidelines that kids should "spin not slog" - they're not quite to the BSCA limits (which would be 5.4m for his age), but they're not too much higher and he's become much better over the last 6 months at going for a high cadence on a climb rather than stomping out of the saddle.
I've seen an article that a 12yo boy is going for the record for a sub-20 day LEJOG ride in July. I'm not sure I'd mention this to him as I think he'd have no problem doing it a couple of years earlier, but I'm not quite as sure I want to spend my whole summer holiday doing it!
Sounds like you have a future pro on your hands. He clearly wants to be riding so what's the issue? I was under the impression children are more resistant to any lasting damage.
This is a good article to look at it's based a bit on Tim Pidcock and as we all know he's rather handy.
Not only excessive training but also over-specialisation can cause problems, warns Dugas. She believes that young athletes should be encouraged to pursue a wide variety of sports rather than specialising.
A young cyclist who also enjoys tennis, rowing or gymnastics will develop an array of useful skills, such as hand-eye coordination, improved endurance and balance.
According to Dugas, early specialisation is crucial only in sports that rely heavily on technique and hand-eye coordination, such as golf and tennis. In an endurance sport like cycling, a youngster may pay a heavy price for narrowing their focus too early.
“I am also wary of too many hours [of training],” adds Dugas. “Our data was clear that, for kids, as soon the number of hours per week of training exceeded their age, the risk of overuse injury jumped significantly.
“We propose that a young athlete’s weekly training hours should always be fewer than their years of age; and that the number of hours adolescents spend training and competing in their primary sport should be less than twice their free play hours.”
I'd have thought it's more about the mental side than physiacl - ie variety is good. Mate did a 150 mile tour with his 12 year old last weekend!
Isnt there something about it being bad to do too much at a young age. The heart is still growing and developing and too much riding thickens the walls of the heart before its fully developed or something?
I always remember it being the advice when I was young, that you shouldn't do over 30 miles ish before 16. (that was years ago so advice might be different now)
If you take a look at the article I linked to above it's a bit more scientific than that, but you're in the right ball park.
As for a 12yr old doing 150 miles in a weekend, I'm sure it's not unheard of, but appears to be in contradiction to the above link.
Thanks for the info guys, very interesting. As of now, I'm not that concerned about him and, as long as he's happy and enjoying it, I'm not planning to change anything just yet
“I am also wary of too many hours [of training],” adds Dugas. “Our data was clear that, for kids, as soon the number of hours per week of training exceeded their age, the risk of overuse injury jumped significantly.
That's probably a good ballpark to aim for and we're probably there (or thereabouts) on this already. I had a quick look back on Strava and he's doing an average of 6-7 hours per week in the saddle and by no means all of that is racing or training - a fair amount is just riding for fun. I'll keep an eye on this though.
“We propose that a young athlete’s weekly training hours should always be fewer than their years of age; and that the number of hours adolescents spend training and competing in their primary sport should be less than twice their free play hours.”
I liked this quote. I know that there are some kids that race and train and only race and train - they very rarely ride their bikes for fun. I've always thought that it was really important that, first and foremost, cycling should be something he enjoys doing and that racing and training should be something he chooses to do to further his enjoyment, rather than the other way around. He's also a football nut, so he does at least have some balance, but he probably does spend 75% of his active life (outside school, at least) in the saddle.
I always remember it being the advice when I was young, that you shouldn’t do over 30 miles ish before 16. (that was years ago so advice might be different now)
This seems a little low to me, especially as a fair number of younger riders are competing in some of the longer tours now and obviously they need to train to get to that level. Personally, most of our road rides are less than 50 miles and the MTB and gravel ones tend to be a bit shorter than this still. We do ride longer rides as well, but these are the exception and very much a "special event". That said, he's determined to get a 100 miler in this summer!
I smiled to see your reference to Tom Pidcock though. We were in Ilkley on Wednesday watching the road races and his younger brother, Joe, won the U16 race and then, less than an hour later, lined up and won the cat3/4 adult race too! My son went home that night with, I'm quite sure, a head full of images of himself stood on that podium and it was very noticeable as we rode home, that I was struggling to keep up with him up the hills - he was on fire!
This seems a little low to me, especially as a fair number of younger riders are competing in some of the longer tours now and obviously they need to train to get to that level. Personally, most of our road rides are less than 50 miles and the MTB and gravel ones tend to be a bit shorter than this still. We do ride longer rides as well, but these are the exception and very much a “special event”. That said, he’s determined to get a 100 miler in this summer!
But I think its bad to be doing your 6-7hours per week in a single ride, but as I said this was the advice given thrity years ago.
And this could be argued to be a very serious issue given the number of young riders that have died in their sleep recently.
But I think its bad to be doing your 6-7hours per week in a single ride, but as I said this was the advice given thrity years ago.
Fair comment, certainly for a 9yo anyway! We wouldn't routinely do rides this long anyway - they would certainly be a special occasion!
We're actually riding Newcastle to Edinburgh in July, which will be 4 x 50 mile days, but will be steady pace and more of a holiday than a cycling event. Being honest, I'm looking forward to this as much (or maybe even more!) than he is as it's rare I get so much time on my bike in one go!
I'd say let him be and just listen out for him complaining of aches and pains, you'll then need to decide which are growing pains and which are actual cycling injuries.
I had both in my teens and came out the other side with no lasting impacts. Although my cycling injuries were more BMX and falling off related!
You could always try getting him doing some skills practice, if he's not already, rather than miles in the saddle.
That seems like something that definitely pays off to start young, moreso than general fitness.
And this could be argued to be a very serious issue given the number of young riders that have died in their sleep recently.
Are you referring to this? https://www.c-r-y.org.uk/sudden-cardiac-death/
It's actually something I'm aware of, and even contemplating having him screened for, even though, tbh, a positive result doesn't mean that they can do anything, nor that you should change your lifestyle. And, to be clear, this is not about exercise (be it normal, or excessive) causing death, but about undiagnosed cardiac defects being triggered by exercise.
It's a horrible thought for any parent, of course, but I'd state that the medical risks of being inactive far, far outweigh any risks from sports activity, although clearly I'd want to minimise this (which I suppose was why I started this thread).
Has anyone here been screened for cardiac defects, or even considered it?
You could always try getting him doing some skills practice, if he’s not already, rather than miles in the saddle.
That seems like something that definitely pays off to start young, moreso than general fitness.
Definitely! I think that's one of the reasons that he loves his mountain bike so much. There's definitely room for both in cycling, something that many young road riders forget.
Cyclocross seems to be a really good proving ground for both - you obviously need huge physical fitness for the riding, but without the technical ability, you'll get flattened on every corner. Up here, it seems to attract more young kids than any other form of competitive racing that we've been to.
I had both in my teens and came out the other side with no lasting impacts. Although my cycling injuries were more BMX and falling off related!
Ah, yes. A "talent/ambition misalignment", something I've suffered from myself on plenty of occasions 🙂
Are you referring to this?
Yes
It’s actually something I’m aware of, and even contemplating having him screened for, even though, tbh, a positive result doesn’t mean that they can do anything, nor that you should change your lifestyle. And, to be clear, this is not about exercise (be it normal, or excessive) causing death, but about undiagnosed cardiac defects being triggered by exercise.
As I understand it (and I'm no doctor) thickening of the walls of the heart is a result of intensive and excessive exercise. The problem for young kids is that the thickening takes place before the heart is fully formed and that's whats causes the problems.
And those saying well little johnny rides 60 miles and doesn't complain of any aches or pains... get your heads out of the sand. You cannot see or feel these effects on the heart.
It’s a horrible thought for any parent, of course, but I’d state that the medical risks of being inactive far, far outweigh any risks from sports activity, although clearly I’d want to minimise this (which I suppose was why I started this thread)
We are not talking about inactivity here, we are talking about extreme levels of cardio vascular activity, pushing young bodies to and beyond their limits. Having googled it this morning there doesn't seem to be a lot of research or guidance out there.
I hate this quote function... tried to fix that but hopefully you can pick out the quotes.
We are not talking about inactivity here, we are talking about extreme levels of cardio vascular activity, pushing young bodies to and beyond their limits. Having googled it this morning there doesn’t seem to be a lot of research or guidance out there.
No, indeed. In either direction, good or bad.
My understanding of the Cardiac Risk in the Young program was that this was mostly focused on undiagnosed, congenital heart defects that would lead to early death. These may be more common in young athletes, simply because they work their hearts harder, but it is not the exercise that is the cause - it's the trigger - the underlying cause is a defect.
What you are talking about is exercise-caused heart defects in the young and this is something that I've never heard of before, with most advice seeming to be that the more exercise you do, the healthier you'll be, whether young or old. Most over-exercise feedback seems to be centred on joints, muscles etc. rather than the internal bits. Now you've said this, I'll be sure to look into it - thanks!
@daern yes check it out for yourself. I am by no means an expert so don't take my posts as gospel, just trying to raise some awareness of possible issues and get parents thinking....
My 9 yr old daughter rides her bike up and down the street, sometimes on and off for several hours a day. I do not compare that to be the same as a continuous ride of the same duration. She is now starting to take an interest in cycling as a sport and wants to go on road rides with me, so this subject is something I will be looking into more no doubt.
I should've said, I'm in a similar scenario with my eldest, granted he only turned 6 in April but he'll be entering his 3rd full season of 'cross this autumn in the Northwest League U8's, he came 8th overall in the league last year at 5 coming top 10 in nearly all his races, he was 11th overall at 4 in a league that has around 25 registered U8 members and up to 35 in a race.
This summer he's also started racing on tarmac in the Welsh Junior Series and the Marsh Tracs summer series, he's got the Welsh 6 & under series wrapped up and in the Marsh Tracs summer series he's had a couple of podiums and a couple of 4th's in the Youth E category.
All he wants to do is ride his bike, loves riding round the local forest on his MTB and can find his way round, so I just follow him and let him choose where he wants to go; but he also enjoys loads of other active outdoors kind of stuff like cricket at the local clubs ECB All Stars thingy, football and cross country running at school, swimming or as it turns out to be jumping in as often as possible and seeing how long he can hold his breath!
He already wants to be a professional rider and at a school aspiration day, he did a little presentation on how he wanted to be like Tom Pidcock, the tricky bit is convincing him that school is also essential, which he professes to dislike immensely but seems to be doing ok.
The thing I always do though is ask him if he wants to race, even if we've got to the venue. If he changes his mind and wants to go an play at the park, so what it's only a bike race.
If we let him, he'd ride his bike from the point he got in until he went to bed every night.
<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #222222; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">What you are talking about is exercise-caused heart defects in the young and this is something that I’ve never heard of before, with most advice seeming to be that the more exercise you do, the healthier you’ll be, whether young or old. Most over-exercise feedback seems to be centred on joints, muscles etc. rather than the internal bits. Now you’ve said this, I’ll be sure to look into it – thanks!</span>
check this out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_heart_syndrome
...he only turned 6 in April but he’ll be entering his 3rd full season of ‘cross this autumn in the Northwest League U8’s
This really made me smile. It's something that CX does so much better than other disciplines - getting the kids involved from the very earliest ages!
All of the stuff you said echos almost exactly with my own son. My only advice (which I think you're already doing anyway) is to make sure you balance "riding for fun" and "riding for results" so that there's no risk of them losing interest if they're not getting on the podium each week. I got a little worried this winter when it seemed that he was losing interest a bit, so we switched away from racing for a few months and back to social mountain biking. Strangely, despite the grim winter conditions in Yorkshire, he absolutely loved it and we only went back to racing when he started to prod me about it again. A holiday in South-West Scotland, riding the 7stanes may well have contributed to this somewhat 🙂
Good luck and I wish him success in his racing!
@trailwagger it sounds like you're describing this which is apparently a genetic condition: https://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/conditions/cardiomyopathy/hypertrophic-cardiomyopathy
Do you have any sources for exercise causing heart conditions (rather than revealing pre existing ones)? As you say, there doesn't seem to be any research or documentation.
Edit: just seen your Wikipedia link above, reading it suggests it's benign and doesn't require treatment, but may in some cases hide heart defects.
check this out
Actually, I was just reading this article:
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/173929/regular-exercise-lead-heart-disease-misdiagnosis/
...which discusses the difference between real cardiac problems, and symptoms brought on by exercise which are actually very different things in reality.
If I may selectively quote from the wikipedia article:
It is important to distinguish between athlete's heart and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, a serious cardiovascular disease characterised by thickening of the heart's walls, which produces a similar ECG pattern at rest.
i.e. perhaps we are talking of two different things here - a specific disease which causes thickening of the heart walls and exercise-induced enlargement of the heart. Certainly, HCM would indeed be dangerous when combined with strenuous exercise (and is, I believe, one of the things they would screen for with older kids), but that enlargement of the heart caused purely through exercise isn't a problem...or even a bad thing:
No treatment is required for people with athletic heart syndrome; it does not pose any physical threats to the athlete, and despite some theoretical concerns that the ventricular remodeling might conceivably predispose for serious arrhythmias,<sup id="cite_ref-Rowland2011_17-0" class="reference">[17]</sup> no evidence has been found of any increased risk of long-term events.
Obviously, there's little mention of children here 🙁
I'd already decided to have him screened anyway, but apparently there's no point in doing it too early (Under 14) as the immature heart gives many of the symptoms of various conditions anyway and you can't easily differentiate between them.
Do you have any sources for exercise causing heart conditions (rather than revealing pre existing ones)? As you say, there doesn’t seem to be any research or documentation.
Edit: just seen your Wikipedia link above, reading it suggests it’s benign and doesn’t require treatment, but may in some cases hide heart defects.
Yeah the problem is most info you can find is not specific to children, but it is clear that larger volumes of cardio exercise (over 5 hours per week) will effect the size of the heart. What is not so well documented is how that effects a young child's heart that is still not fully developed.
But is that your own conclusion or based on research? I don't mean to dismiss your concerns but I would like to know what they're based on.
I wouldn't mind having the same sort of worry OP my own eldest likes to ride but has zero interest in the competitive side of cycling and I very much doubt I could get 70 miles out of her, the whinges start at around 7-10 miles and tools would be downed before 20 I reckon...
it might be worth looking at other sports where youth competition is widespread, football being an obvious example, arguably with more joint strain (Knees and Hips primarily I'd have thought) and of course the implications of lots of cardio training/over-training in under ~16... Obviously not a direct equivalent but with plenty of pushy parents and lots of ambitious kids so there must be some relevant learning there.
<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #222222; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">But is that your own conclusion or based on research? I don’t mean to dismiss your concerns but I would like to know what they’re based on.</span>
Its as I said really, plenty of research around stating that high levels of cardio exercise effects the size of the heart, but none really studying what that effect has on an undeveloped organ.
This is interesting though, recommended race activity by Athletics Ireland. Surprised me how low the distances are right up to 18
According to the rules of Athletics Ireland, athletes must be at least 18 years to compete in events of 10km and over. The recommended maximum racing distance for juveniles up to under 11 is one mile; it’s 2km for 12-13 age group, 3km for 14-15 and 5km for 16-18.
I wouldn’t mind having the same sort of worry OP my own eldest likes to ride but has zero interest in the competitive side of cycling and I very much doubt I could get 70 miles out of her, the whinges start at around 7-10 miles and tools would be downed before 20 I reckon…
You've just described my daughter perfectly 🙂
Being honest, this doesn't happen overnight. We were lucky to fall into a local club which had a group of similar age (well, slightly older, but similar ability) kids and they've all come on together. This has the double benefit of a bit of peer pressure and the fact that every ride we do with them is a social gathering for them so these rides are pretty much the highlight of his week.
My daughter is my next mission. No, she'll never ride like my son, but she's more capable than she thinks she is and I think would enjoy it...
it might be worth looking at other sports where youth competition is widespread, football being an obvious example, arguably with more joint strain (Knees and Hips primarily I’d have thought) and of course the implications of lots of cardio training/over-training in under ~16… Obviously not a direct equivalent but with plenty of pushy parents and lots of ambitious kids so there must be some relevant learning there.
Thanks, good call. I'll nose into this too. And anyway, there are no pushy parents in junior cycling...well, ok. Maybe one or two 😉
Neither of my kids are interested in riding either so i'm a little jealous OP.
Sounds like you could have a future star on your hands so my advice would be...ditch the road and CX and get him a BMX. It's like cycling only it's fun :P, it'll bring on his bike handling skills no end and use more body muscles than the type of cycling he's currently doing (which would be my only concern for a child that cycles as much as yours)
Its as I said really, plenty of research around stating that high levels of cardio exercise effects the size of the heart, but none really studying what that effect has on an undeveloped organ
What I'm questioning is the basis for thinking this effect is likely to be bad. There's a lot of studies exploring the benefits of exercise (including for children specifically) and any documented negative effects seem to be linked to congenital defects.
Generally there would be something driving further research into an area like this, e.g. if there were unexplained deaths or an abnormally high rate of heart defects in child athletes. But I don't see anyone suggesting that's the case.
Sorry I wasn't implying pushy parenting from anyone here, more that where you do find it in a mainstream sport (Football being the prime example; I've met a couple of "Keen Dads" trying to get their sons to fulfil their own dreams) you've a better chance of there being data on sporting injury and over-training in youth participants...
Sounds like you could have a future star on your hands so my advice would be…ditch the road and CX and get him a BMX. It’s like cycling only it’s fun :P, it’ll bring on his bike handling skills no end and use more body muscles than the type of cycling he’s currently doing (which would be my only concern for a child that cycles as much as yours)
Don't bloody start that! It's hard enough to keep up with what he does know without adding another discipline into the mix! 🙂
Actually, I've heard other people describe BMX as the most complete discipline from many perspectives - I suppose only stamina and endurance don't feature - and when it comes to bike skills, it's got to be pretty unrivalled. We have a small track near here and he loves getting his bike off the ground, so maybe that's a good one for a slack Saturday afternoon. I know I'll be pushing on an open door there...
Sorry I wasn’t implying pushy parenting from anyone here, more that where you do find it in a mainstream sport (Football being the prime example; I’ve met a couple of “Keen Dads” trying to get their sons to fulfil their own dreams) you’ve a better chance of there being data on sporting injury and over-training in youth participants…
Oh, it's quite OK. I suppose any parent of a competitive kid has to be a little pushy as, even the most enthusiastic athlete may take a bit of persuasion to get up at 5am for a long drive to an event. I try really, really hard to actually listen to my kids now and I'd like to think that I know when to take notice of it, and when to ignore it. When my daughter moans about a sore bum after a mile on the bike, I know that a bit of encouragement and a jelly baby will be better for her than letting her stop and give in. Likewise, if my son shows signs of not enjoying a particular ride or event, or just seems out of sorts, then I'll know that maybe it's time to rethink things. It's certainly not about giving in to everything they say, but you need a bit of experience to know when enough is enough.
I’m cautious about it as an adult, let alone a developing heart. I think moderation is best, I limit my 8 year old to about two hours/25 miles or so no firm evidence why, just a hunch.
I’ve read lots over the past few years about endurance exercise and arrhythmia
Worth a read: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/cyclingweekly/fitness/can-you-push-your-heart-too-hard-335700%3fsource=dam