That's really useful thanks.
I'm a gnat's cock off selling my Scott Spark as never got on with flat bars and only love it when riding technical stuff - the last time I did that was a year ago. Wonderful bike, plush and fast, but just doesn't work for me where I live.
I do fast road rides so probably would stick with 30-32mm road tyres out of habit (used to run a CAAD 12 rim brake with 28mm Schwalbe Ones, they ended up 30.5mm and there was ample comfort with no sacrifice of pace I could tell).
The idea of a 45mm+ 650b tyre is intriguing.
I forget which website it was but they basically said the hybrid is the road bike the general public should buy.
FTFY
my Scandal, it’ll happily do 16-17mph on the road, and off-road it’s about a brazillion times better than a rigid bike…Honestly, what am I missing?
I know this has probably already been answered, but I can compare my Tripster (pre-gravel bike category gravel bike 😉 ) to my Yeti Big Top. Big Top is a proper light XC 29er, but doesn't compare on road or easy tracks to the Tripster. Partly the geometry, but also the gear ratios. I tried riding the Yeti to work once - got there noticeably more knackered than when I ride the Tripster.
I reckon where you're 17mph on your Scandal, you'd be 19-20mph on a gravel bike.
Then again I tried to ride the Tripster up a steep, rooty offroad track the other day and didn't get anywhere near as far as I would've on the Yeti.
Swings n roundabouts innit.
I bought a gravel bike a couple of years back (a Surly Straggler), and have to confess I am erring on the viewpoint thats its a jack of all trades and master of none, well 1 trade and that is (no surprises) compressed gravel tracks (e.g. New Forest). I rode it on Sunday, blast for 2 miles along a gravel farmers track, great, hit a load of dried cattle-trodden lumpy mud, suddenly I was being shaken to pieces and wishing I had the MTB instead. I think its fine if you pick your route, but in terms of "adventure" I am becoming more reticent to use the gravel bike to head off to the unknown as it too easily gets out of its depth (and having to push is not fun as far as I am concerned). It also is much less fun to ride on the road than a road bike unsurprisingly.
If there is one redeeming feature I notice about riding the gravel bike its that it beats me up much quicker than the MTB, to the point where I find after 30 or 40 miles of mixed riding I am actually thankful to get back onto a smooth road and starting to avoid off road sections, which kind of defies the point. It has re-kindled my interest in off road riding although future £££ will be spent either upgrading or replacing my XC MTB with something a bit lighter. Overall I guess it partly it comes down to the terrain around you.
For me where the gravel bike does work well is for lunch break / quick evening rides, say 1 hour where I want to ride quickly on the road to some known good gravel tracks and back again.
For me where the gravel bike does work well is for lunch break / quick evening rides, say 1 hour where I want to ride quickly on the road to some known good gravel tracks and back again.
I only ever do 2 hour rides with majority of the ride on New Forest gravel roads and agree they are the perfect bike for that. Not really sure why I don't ride one...
The idea of a 45mm+ 650b tyre is intriguing.
I was very close to going for a lighter set of 650bs with something like Rene Herse Compass Hill Extralights on for 'road' wheels...
I made the mistake of selling my mtb in January 2019, the replacement was put on order and has been since. Lesson to learn: don't sell your mtb before a global pandemic.
Anyways, this left me with a cx bike and a road bike. The cx bike had been a whim. Barely used, not appreciated. Que rhe pandemic and its been my default. I love it. Its really comfy on the crappy roads, if when I'm out riding I see a trail that looks interesting, I ride it. I've ridden on the Surrey Hills, some of the Ridgeway, canal path, local woody rooty singletrack, isle of Wight, its great.
But this is a cx bike. Probably different to a gravel bike;-)
But this is a cx bike. Probably different to a gravel bike;-)
It is different (mainly higher BB) but the difference is very small when it actually comes to riding.
I have ridden many different bikes on road and gravel and to me at least there is a lot of over thinking and exaggeration about the differences in regard to riding on gravel roads.
I switched to a rigid SS MTB with 2.3 tyres for a few months earlier in the year but am now back on a fixed gear track frame with 28c tyres.
In theory very different bikes but in practice, after a few rides they are just bikes that both ride well on gravel roads. I would happily ride either but I just have a bit of a thing with fixed gear after riding fixed for 90%+ of the time over the last 20 years.
Fixed gear off road is loads of fun but not sure I could do it that much.
But this is a cx bike. Probably different to a gravel bike;-)
Mine is effectively a CX bike. Thinking about rhorn's comments about comfort, I notice it less on my gravel bike, but I also notice my gravel bike tends to 'encourage' head down/flat out sort of riding, it has never been a cruiser. Wonder if this has something to do with CX geometry etc (although I've tried to mitigate it as much as possible with lots of spacers/riser bars etc).
Or maybe it is just me, and that always trying to go flat out in a big gear is just the more comfortable way of riding bumps and ruts. Most of the discomfort I notice is at the end of longer days (5hr plus) and in the hands.
For gravel riding which I do a lot I far prefer the comfort of and MTB over a drop bar bike. for urban riding I want flat bars for best braking and control. I simply do not care that a drop bar bike is a bit faster
So for me there is no point in a gravel bike - its worst of both worlds but that just my preference
I did a 25 mile gravel ride on my fatbike yesterday. I also do gravel rides on my road bike on 25 mm tyres
but I also notice my gravel bike tends to ‘encourage’ head down/flat out sort of riding, it has never been a cruiser.
I find that is down to the bars. If I put drop bars on I tend to spend most of the time in the drops to get the efficiency/speed and when I get home I wonder where I rode as didn't see much of it!
That why I ride with flat bars as it stops me doing that.
That why I ride with flat bars as it stops me doing that.
Yeah, maybe I do need to drag the 29er out and try this, I genuinely think I'm just more comfortable/happier on the bike when (trying) to go flat out all the time, it might be a weird consequence of my back issues though, I think bigger gears/more power output engages the glutes better or something. Recently any easy/sit up/Z1 rides tend to result in more back pain than going out and chasing segments or hammering it. Weird, but also a massive tangent from this thread 😎
The idea of a 45mm+ 650b tyre is intriguing.
How about 50mm 700 tyres?
Even 'better'.
I forget which website it was but they basically said the gravel bike is the road bike the general public should buy.
Yep..
I'd actually say that road bikes are more niche than a gravel bike.
A good gravel frame will take skinny to fat tyres and 650b's to get even more volumes of air and fatter tyres, giving more choice of tyre for the desired terrain.
Way more versatility as opposed to some road bike with a 23-25 and zero chance of going up in size.
Crashing thru potholes on my 32's is much more pleasant and more forgiving than on 23's.
Although I think the key to happy Gravel Bike ownership is whether it's suited to the terrain your planning on riding the most.
Apologies for the post highjack, however I think my queries would be better here than starting a new thread.
I’m in a similar situation to the OP, only with less balls, in that I’m gravel curious, but haven’t committed yet.
I used to have a Boardman CX a couple of years ago, and it wasn’t my jam…the tyres were Conti CX 35mm, the brakes were TRP Spyre mechanical brakes (set up what I believe to be correctly), and everything else was as it came from the factory….and I absolutely hated descending on it, the tyres were harsh and bumpy, and the brakes were pathetic. Climbing and on the flat was great however, especially since any increase in effort resulted in a noticeable increase in speed. Also I never really got onto the drops much due to an excessive diet making thinks a little uncomfortable (looking a bit better in that department, but the front definitely felt low).
Fast forward to today and I’m spending more and more time on my Scandal happily pedalling around the local bridleways and fireroads etc, with a few link roads in between…that combined with new bike fever and everyone else having one is making me look more at gravel bikes.
How much different would something like a Sonder Camino be compared to the old CX, would it be worth taking the plunge, or at least spending more time investigating? I’m about 5 miles from by local trails, so I’m not forced to drive to do anything interesting, and everything round here (close to Guisborough) is rather hilly and generally a bit rough.
I appreciate that I could just hire one for the day (not sure if that’s covid permitted), but I thought I would ask on here first.
I simply do not care that a drop bar bike is a bit faster So for me there is no point in a gravel bike – its worst of both worlds but that just my preference
Yeah, after looking at gravel bikes, and wondering "how/why is this better than my Scandal" I've pretty much come to exactly the same conclusion
@mtbqwerty probably not different enough to change your mind. By the sounds of it you'd end up changing it into a rubbish rigid mountain bike, in which case just get a lightweight hardtail.
@mtbqwerty probably not different enough to change your mind. By the sounds of it you’d end up changing it into a rubbish rigid mountain bike, in which case just get a lightweight hardtail.
40+ tyres, flared bars and better brakes might though.
At which point you're starting to drift into crap mountain bike territory.
If you don't like drop bars/don't use the drops and don't like being a bit lower than on an MTB then don't bother. Most bikes will ride okay on the road and on gravel so no need to try and force yourself to like something that you just don't like.
If you hated a CX bike with 35c tyres then I wouldn't bother with a gravel bike as they are not different enough for you to hate one but love the other.
What’s the benefit of a gravel bike over a 29er with suspension?
I built a rigid 29er, with fat tyres, then I tried it with suspension forks. It was much faster on rough downhills (of course) but worse everywhere else. It's hard to describe, but when pedalling away on smooth trails or road it just felt far less positive. Perhaps because of the extra weight, the extra flex compared to a rigid fork, or the little bit of travel that it still had even when 'locked out' (it was a Rockshox fork with the poplock thing), but I'm not really sure. But I put the (admittely pretty nice) rigid carbon fork back on and haven't changed back. It's just so lovely to ride. Perhaps it's the fact the head angle is steep, which gives great handling and weight balance, but it doesn't chuck you over the bars on step downs as it doesn't steepen up further. I really don't know and I'm not one for sentimental bollocks when it comes to bike handling, but I do like it better rigid.
The only differences between gravel and rigid MTB, assuming you can fit the same size tyres, are possibly weight, depending on bike; tyre size; handlebars; and gearing. For me, gearing is the big one as there are lots of steep rough trails here and even if I were a good enough climber to make the gradient on gravel gears, the roughness of the terrain would make it far harder again.
The 29er isn't as quick on road, but it's certainly not slow. There are rides here that would include 60-70% road to get to some lovely trails - on these I might save half an hour on a gravel bike on a 5hr ride.
That half an hour could be another 10km for some people but for me it's not about speed or time, it's about focus.
Where do I want my bike to perform most?
Road < 50% > off road
Anywhere in the 40-60% range there's overlap but if it's closer to road choose a gravel bike, if it's closer off road 60% choose a lightweight mountain bike.
I don't get the confusion and bickering about gravel bikes, choice isn't a bad thing, there aren't countless threads about DH bikes being marketing chuff because a super enduro can deal with 99.999999999999% of one person's riding.
Thanks for the additional responses, folks.
With the first ones, I was more than happy to save a grand and not bother gravelling up, as I probably would be making it more suited to off than on-road...then the latter ones came in, and I was looking at maps, increasing the road mileage to make the longer mtb rides a bit longer, because its quicker etc...anyway I'm back to square 1.
Next stop is a demo (when they become available)
I have had a Sonder Camino since January this year and have ridden on it all my previous MTB with the exception of Lee and Cragg Quarries.
My Orange 5 has remained in the shed until only last night when I had a blast out on it over the tops.
Both are incredibly capable in their own right.
If I had a choice of one it would be the Camino.
With it I can get out on the road (a second ride up Cragg Vale last weekend as part of a 60k hack out) and as others have reflected getting off road as well.
Knowing I was always “over biked” with the 5 makes for me at least the Camino being more suited to my riding style and comfort zone.
Are they this year’s marketing trend, almost certainly, are they fun, even more so.
