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Just been knocked o...
 

[Closed] Just been knocked off...

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[#7688635]

...as I cycled home from town. A taxi driver pulled into my path on a one way system with two lanes (I was in the left lane). I hit his nearside wing and was flung over the bonnet (he was cutting across the lanes from the right hand lane to execute a left hand turn).

The front of my bike is a mess. The wheel is ****ed, not sure about the frame and forks. Driver was reasonable, gave me his details etc. Said he wants to avoid an insurance claim.

I've reported it to the police.

What should I do about the bike, drop it into my LBS for a quote to repair it?

Have lower back bruise/pain where I landed.

Thoughts appreciated. Going to try and get some sleep, 33 mile Evans mtb ride in the morning (he says optimistically).


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 12:52 am
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good your ok. He has to report an accident to his insurance. He has to give you his details. Report it to police, lbs for bike. If your ctc or other one contact their legal dept. If you go down the do it yourself route theres no guarantee that the driver will pay up. I doubt he has any idea how much a bike costs. Get checked out by doctor in the morning and rest up. Accident can shake you up. I'd skip the MTB ride.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 1:19 am
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I can already hear the discussion when you tell him it's £800 quid for repairs/replacement of parts and kit.......


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 8:17 am
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Thanks for the advice.

I reported it to the police as I had to walk past the police station on the way home.

I'm a CTC member, so I'll give them a call.

I can see the cost soon mounting up. £100 for a front wheel. If the frame and fork are knackered, then add another few hundred. I've noticed that my jacket is also scuffed. 🙁


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 8:36 am
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Rusty if a person is injured then he is also obliged to report to the police iirc.

It's different to damage to property.

It is up to him to notify the insurer ultimately. If he doesn't he will need to rummage around in his pockets for all the loss but you will end up in the territory of suing him.

I would make sure he knows there's an injury involved, it might just spur him on to report it to the insurers.

One word of warning I helped someone who'd been involved in a car on car prang with a taxi in pretty much the circumstances you had on the bike (taxi driver launched out from a side road into their path) and the insurer involved started trying to threaten massive loss of earnings claims and all sorts of other loss to (in my view) either distract from who was at fault or because they weren't getting the whole truth. Don't take any nonsense. After all most cab drivers delight in telling their passengers just how much better they are at driving than anyone else (a kind of inverse of reality).

Hope you heal well and do get the bike properly checked. When I got run down I missed a bent mech hanger which I can't find a replacement for.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 8:53 am
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Go through insurance.
Read this:

LFGSS.COM "https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/131099/"
What to do in case of an accident | LFGSS
1. About this guide
2. What to do before an accident
3. At the scene of an accident
4. After an accident
5. Useful contacts

1. About this guide

The aim of this guide is to educate cyclists about what to do in an accident. I am an experienced solicitor, working for BL Claims in London. I specialise in recovering damages for injured cyclists and you can read my blog on cycle law here: http://www.thecyclingsolicitor.com.

The guide only refers to the laws of England and Wales. Any other jurisdiction will have different laws in place. The guide is accurate as of 9 August 2016.

2. What to do before an accident

Know your route, so if you have to call an ambulance or the police you can tell them where you are.

Program someone into your phone as your “ICE” person (in case of emergency) so if you are unconscious, the emergency services can look in your phone for a person to contact. For instance, on iPhones you can add details in the 'Health' app under Medical ID which is accessible when the phone is locked.

3. At the scene of an accident

Move to a safe position.

Call the police and an ambulance:

-if you are injured;
-if you think you may be in shock; or
-if you think the other party involved is giving you false contact details.

When the police arrive, co-operate. Stay calm and make sure you give them your side of the story. Take down the name of the officer and ask for the police case reference number. This officer may be responsible for investigating your case so it is a good idea to keep them on your side.

Even if you have a minor injury, go to hospital or your GP as soon as possible. Tell the doctor they should take detailed notes.

Take pictures of your injuries at their worst to show their full extent. Also take photos of any damage to your property e.g. bike, clothing, etc.

Get the contact details of any witnesses to the accident - the more the better. Do not leave this to the police. Do not give your only copy of the witness details over to the police but do give them a copy of the information. The courts rely heavily on witness statements.

Beware of accepting money from the other person in the accident as that may be seen as settling the case.

If you are badly injured, do not be scared to ask for help from bystanders with the above (i.e. getting witness information, registration details, taking photos, etc). You may be surprised at how helpful people are willing to be if asked.

CCTV (Closed-Circuit Television)

This deserves a special mention, as it is vital to look for CCTV cameras.

Public CCTV - tell the police to call the local CCTV office to make sure any footage is preserved there and then. Do not let them wait as the footage may be crystal clear and in real-time if preserved immediately. Public CCTV is often saved with a continual degradation system i.e. as time goes by the resolution of the footage is reduced.

Private CCTV – this data may be deleted at any point. You or the police need to contact the business immediately to preserve the footage.

Cycle Camera footage

I have been asked about the benefits of cycle cameras a number of times recently. In short, they are admissible as evidence and I have acted for several cyclists where such footage has made the difference between a winning and losing case.

Accidents with a motorised vehicle

If you can only get one piece of information following the accident, make sure you get the driver’s vehicle registration - this is usually enough to trace the driver.

If possible, take the driver’s name, address, registration and insurance details. This will save waiting for the police to provide it, which can take a while.

Do not get into a discussion about whose fault the accident was.

Take photographs of the vehicles and their position in the road, along with any damage to your bike.

Accidents with pedestrians or other cyclists

If you are in an accident with a pedestrian or another cyclist, you should still take their name and address, get witness details and contact the police and/or hospital if you are injured.

However, from a practical point of view, it is very difficult to recover damages against pedestrians or cyclists as they are not normally insured against such incidents. If they have household insurance this can sometimes cover them, as does membership of cycling organisations such as Cycle UK / LCC / British Cycling. Alternatively, you can pursue someone for damages personally, although this is challenging and would only be worthwhile if they had sufficient money to justify it.

If the person causing the accident is acting in the course of their employment (e.g. a refuse collector, Deliveroo rider, etc) you may be able to take action against their employers direct.

Accident from a defect in the road

If you are in an accident caused by a pothole or other defect in the road, it is important to take photographs of the defect as it looked at the time of the accident. Put an item in the shot (a shoe or notebook, etc) that shows the size and depth of the defect. These photos are just in case the defect gets repaired before you have a chance to take proper photographs.

You still must then back to the scene as soon as possible to record the size of the defect and to take further photographs with the tape measure in shot so you can accurately show how deep and wide it is.

Cases for defects in the road are challenging. Even if you can show that the defect was a dangerous hazard, the highway authority need only show that they had a reasonable system of inspection in place to avoid blame. The frequency of inspections required will often be once every 3-6 months, depending on the type of road. If the highway authority can show that they inspected the road within that timescale then you would need to show that they missed the defect or that they should have been aware of the defect in any event, such as if people had complained about the defect since the inspection.

Hit and Run incidents

If a driver/motorcyclist does not stop at the scene of an incident, you may still be able to get compensation through the Motor Insurance Bureau (MIB). All motor insurance policies contribute to this fund which covers hit and run incidents and also incidents caused by uninsured drivers.

There are strict time limits for these claims, including having to report the incident to the Police within 5 days if you want to claim for damage to personal property. The time limits can be found here, along with details on how to apply for compensation:

http://www.mib.org.uk/Submit+a+Claim/en/Default.htm

4. After an accident

Police

If there is another road user at fault for your accident, it is important to involve the police and push for a prosecution if you can. It is easy to get disheartened and give up when the police are unhelpful or inactive in getting a driver convicted. Cycling accidents tend not to be treated as priorities by the police and by the public in general. By pushing for the highest punishments, we can help change the motorcentric attitude towards cyclists and raise awareness of the real frequency of these crimes.

When reporting the accident, it is useful to have a basic understanding of the difference between ‘criminal’ and ‘civil’ law, as explained below.

If you are self-reporting the incident as the police did not attend, and the incident occurred within the Met Police area, you can use the online tool https://beta.met.police.uk/report/report-a-road-traffic-incident/

Criminal Law vs Civil law

It is important to know the difference between criminal law and civil law. Criminal law is where the state punishes someone for breaking the law. It is dealt with by the police and cases are heard in the Magistrate’s Court, or the Crown Court where the case is more serious.

Civil law (in this context) is where the cyclist sues for a wrong committed against them by another road user. You can get compensation for your financial losses, including damage to your bike, and for the injuries you have suffered. The defendants will also be liable to pay some of your legal costs.

Civil law

If your bike or personal possessions are damaged, or you are injured following an accident, you have a few choices:

a) Do nothing

In general, cyclists tend to feel sheepish following an accident and many will hobble off without doing anything about it. If this is an informed decision then fine but, in my view, for cyclists to be treated like other road users they need to treat themselves in the same way. Also, adding yourself to the count for that year’s statistics will help future cyclists and cycle lobbyists fight for our rights.

b) Make a deal with the driver or insurers

If you make a deal with the other person, or their insurer, make sure you go in with your eyes open. There may be benefits, as the process will normally be quicker and you won't have any damages deducted for legal fees. If you accept payment from the defendant then this will probably be all you can get. In which case, even if your injuries persist longer than you thought, or you are entitled to more damages, you cannot go back and get more money.

c) Instruct a solicitor

Who to choose

If you go down this route, make sure the solicitor specialises in cycling cases and is a member of the Association of Personal Injury Lawyers (APIL). They will be very used to dealing with specific issues raised in cycling cases, such as replacing a damaged bicycle or when insurers contend that a cyclist should have been wearing a helmet or high-vis clothing.

Funding

If your case has at least a 50% chance of success (which is the case in the vast majority of cycling accidents), a solicitor should enter into a “no win no fee” arrangement. This means you will pay only if you win, in which case the majority of the costs will be covered by the other side. However, since the insurance industry successfully lobbied the government to pass the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders bill the full legal costs in a case are not recoverable from the insurer and a law firm will normally take a cut of up to 25% of your damages.

If you have legal expense insurance (e.g. through an insurance policy or LCC / Cycling UK / British Cycling membership), you may want to consider using this as they may have an agreement that a law firm will take smaller cut of the damages. However, you are always free to select the solicitor who you want to instruct.

Please Note: the insurance industry has again lobbied the government to make the law less favourable to victims of injury. It now looks likely that cases will fall into the small claims track where the injury (not including financial losses) is worth under £5,000. This is the vast majority of cases. This will mean that no legal costs are recoverable from the defendant aside from court fees. What this will mean in practice is not yet clear. Also, whiplash cases will no longer be actionable to the same extent, although the parameters of this (including whether it will have an impact on cyclists) are also currently unknown. It is expected that both these changes will be implemented by the end of 2017 and I will update the guide when there is clarity on the issues.

Your case

You have three years from the date of the accident (or your 21st birthday if you are under 18 at the time of the accident) to issue the case in the court otherwise your case will be time barred.

Keep records / receipts for any money you spend as a result of the accident e.g. paracetamol; bike repairs; replacing your helmet / clothing / lights / etc; travel costs for taking public transport instead of cycling.

If you instruct a solicitor they should do the majority of the work that needs to be done to get you compensation. This process can take time – usually anywhere between 6 months and 2 years.

The steps involved will vary, depending on the case, but in general a solicitor will do the following:

Notify the driver of the accident and, if necessary, write to the police to request a copy of the collision investigation report.-

Instruct an independent medical expert to meet with you and report on the extent of your injuries and how long they will last.

Once the medical evidence has been finalised, and the driver has admitted liability, the claim should be ready to settle. It may take some time to get to this stage, depending on the complexity of the case and how serious your injuries are.

Where the driver does not admit liability, or the insurers undervalue the case, it may be necessary to issue court proceedings to encourage settlement. However, only around 1% of cases actually go to trial.

5. Useful contacts

Road Peace
http://www.roadpeace.org
A non-profit organisation that help support people following bereavement or serious injury as the result of a road traffic incident.

Independent Police Complaints Commission
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk
For complaints about the police.

Transport for London
http://www.tfl.gov.uk
Contact TFL if you have a complaint about a bus.

Public Carriage Office
https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/12396.aspx
Contact the Public Carriage Office at TFL if you have a complaint about a black cab.

Fill That Hole
http://www.fillthathole.org.uk/
Use this site to report potholes and road defects and to check if other complaints have been made.

Other
If the other party is driving a company vehicle, complain to that company. They will often be receptive to complaints.

Be careful of you do the MTB ride. You might be more injured than you originally thought.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 10:10 am
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Go to your doctor if you are physically hurt but if it's very minor use some ice.

I would contact him with a quote and if that goes wrong use CTC legal policy.

Might be worth recording the incident with them too. They'll you give better advice than here.

Hope you're ok.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 10:49 am
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Speaking as someone who also drives a black cab, I'd get in touch with the councils licensing dept and make them aware of what's happened and that you have the police involved. They are public vehicles after all and the council will take pretty seriously taxi driver negligence which has resulted in injury and damage. Better to come at the driver on all fronts.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 11:58 am
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You'll probably feel like a truck has hit you this morning.

Don't ride if you are injured as it will only delay your recovery and risk further damage.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 12:04 pm
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OP - had a very similar thing happen to me 5 weeks ago.
Knocked off by driver who didn't see me. To be fair she reported it to police after the event and admitted liability. You have to get them involved to get an incident number. I went to hospital to get checked out...might be worth doing the same. Luckily I wasn't too badly injured - cuts and bruises and lots of aches which you've probably found this morning! Bike is carbon so not immediately obvious if anything is wrong - bibs and lid were bin jobs. Driver wanted to go through her insurer when I mentioned the bike might need replacing. Get the bike into a reputable shop for analysis. I did this on the advice of a solicitor - in the end the findings were that although it looked ok they couldn't guarantee it's structural integrity without x-rays etc - the insurers wrote it off. I got a new bike, lid, bibs and some injury compensation. When you get an repair/replacement cost put it to the driver - if he refuses to play ball then insist on getting his insurance details. The problem is if he doesn't play ball and refuses to give insurance details - not sure if the police will get them from him. If it's his fault then might be worth consulting a no win no fee solicitor. I went direct to her insurer - this was straight forward though as she admitted liability. Glad you're not too badly injured and get sorted.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 12:52 pm
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Big question is did you get any witnesses ? Amazing how peoples version of events can change when they have gone home and considered the situation .


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 12:56 pm
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Said he wants to avoid an insurance claim.

Probably means he's not insured at all.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 4:44 pm
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First off I hope you are on the mend. healing vibes etc.
Take tomorrow off, there's plenty to watch on TV, Track, Paris-Nice, etc.
Call the CTC, let them deal with it and the driver. that's what you paid for.
Insurance will have to be involved, your bike has been damaged but more importantly you have been. You don't want to be suffering still in 2 years time wishing you'd not taken a few hundred quid off this guy, instead of going through his insurance.
Soft tissue -bumps and bruises can rack up in to 4 figures quite quickly.
Its not milking the system, you have been hurt and he has got insurance to cover his negligence.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 5:14 pm
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Thanks again for all the feedback and thoughts.

I've taken the bike to the LBS and their estimate is £400+ - new wheel, new forks, new headset, new disc, new disc brakes, new mudguard, new front light (got smashed off) and a shiny new bell.

Phoned the taxi driver and asked him to sit down. When I told him the amount he said he wanted to do it through his insurance and gave me the details. Fair enough.

He then started to imply it might have been my fault (unbelievably there were no first hand witnesses, busy part of town). I didn't bite and we agreed to let the insurance company sort it out. I've phoned the CTC helpline and I'm waiting for a call back.

What's annoying me now is that I'm without a commuter bike and don't have anything else suitable. Is there a scheme for loan bikes like when you prang your car???

Now debating whether I should head down to A&E for an assessment, sounds like I should.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 6:16 pm
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Now debating whether I should head down to A&E for an assessment, sounds like I should.

Do it ASAP and ask the doctor who examines you to forward their notes to your CTC contact.

And no more direct correspondence or talking to the taxi driver, you've paid your CTC membership fee for them to deal with just this sort of thing...

Healing vibes


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 6:51 pm
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dont forget to keep any reasonable taxi and public transport receipts. Also pain killers and any other things you buy like cold compresses etc (beer sadly is not allowed 🙁 )


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 7:07 pm
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Don't bother asking the A&E doctor to forward your medi records. They won't do it as it's not their job, they wont know who to send them to as you won't have a CTC solicitor's file reference yet and medical records are not actually required for most minor injury claims these days.

DO make use of the CTC legal service and obtain and keep receipts for every expense you incur, ie the taxi/public transport costs you incur and any painkillers etc you may purchase. If your bike is your only form of transport you are entitled to claim the cost of a reasonable alternative. If you have to drive because you can't cycle you can claim mileage, plus any additional mileage for treatment. Keep a note of it.

It's also useful to keep a brief diary of your recovery - how long any bruising/swelling/pain lasted and any help you received from friends/relatives.


 
Posted : 05/03/2016 7:36 pm
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An update on what's happened since I last posted...

The drivers insurance company (Aviva) got in touch and accepted full liability for the accident.

They've agreed to pay for the bike repairs after getting a quote and photos from the bike shop. We are in discussions about my damaged jeans (jacket turned out to be ok) and a replacement helmet as I have no idea if I banged my head or not.

As for the injury, I went to A&E. An x-ray confirmed nothing was broken, so it appears to be soft tissue damage only.

I made a personal injury claim with Aviva. A physio phoned me up and asked some questions about the injury. I got a call from Aviva the next day who made me an offer I was happy to accept. They'll provide physio if I need it after the swelling goes down.

The council pulled the taxi driver in (he hadn't reported the accident - a requirement of his licence). The damage to his car made it unsafe to other road users (sharp edges) so they ordered it off the road until repaired.

The police aren't pursuing the matter with the driver, which I'm considering challenging (the outcome could easily have been more serious).

Appreciate all the advice and support.


 
Posted : 13/03/2016 9:13 pm
 hora
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That level of hit/damage/and a injury I'd go through his insurance.

He might have a habit of prangs/avoiding claims. Plus you need to make sure any injury isn't underlining and you are compensated properly. That is what insurance is for. Genuine claims.


 
Posted : 13/03/2016 9:18 pm
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That level of hit/damage/and a injury I'd go through his insurance.

He might have a habit of prangs/avoiding claims. Plus you need to make sure any injury isn't underlining and you are compensated properly. That is what insurance is for. Genuine claims.

Didn't his post above yours exactly explain how has done, or is doing, all of that? 😕


 
Posted : 13/03/2016 9:25 pm
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Amazing isn't it how people don't want to go through insurance because "it's just a bike" and then they find out that a bike, plus the clothing/kit etc can easily be 4 figures...

Good luck getting it sorted, sounds that at least the council are on side. Police won't be interested unless you end up in hospital, just one of those things they'll leave to insurance.

Be prepared for the flood of "you were in an accident" cold calls.


 
Posted : 13/03/2016 9:29 pm
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Sounds like you got a good result. Hopefully there's no lasting damage. Just a pain in the arse waiting for it all to be sorted I suppose.


 
Posted : 13/03/2016 9:50 pm
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Aviva have said they dealt with the naughty people who leaked victims' info to the ambulance chasers. Please let us know if you are bothered.


 
Posted : 13/03/2016 10:29 pm