The more trail centres I ride the more carefully sculpted man-made doubles I seem to encounter mid-trail. I really enjoy these and can clear them cleanly, most of the time.
However, I have very little knowledge of 'correct jumping technique' and haven't been able to find much useful advice online. I wanted to be more confident for when I go back to Les Gets this year and am faced with much bigger jumps.
So STF, educate me on basic (and advanced) jumping technique please.
so body position? What do I do in the transition and off the lip? What do I do in the air?
Loads here: http://www.leelikesbikes.com/?s=Jumping
Plus a few books of his. Or in person, Jedi is the man to see in England (ukbikeskills).
Go here:
[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Video-Sea-Otter-DH-Sea-Otter-2013.html ]Sea Otter DH video[/url]
Scroll to 3:04 in - don't do that
Scroll to 3:25 in - do it like that
simples........ 😉
where are you based? any good skills coach could sort you out, which trails are you finding the doubles on? I used to find very few.
Stay loose on run, naturally centred on bike, as you hit the take off ramp start to shift weight back and pull up on bars s the bike launches into the air, lift your legs up to bring the rear wheel up and the bike level in the air, if hitting a down ramp, spot your landing and point the front of the bike down into the ramp. Keep some bend in your arms and legs ready to take impact of landing and absorb it.
If you want to style your flight do so as you bring your legs up to level the bike out, get it down early, hold the style for as long as you dare and then prepare landing.
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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/10818473@N07/2815784612/ ]1322672_Screen[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/10818473@N07/ ]Jackass123456789[/url], on Flickr
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If you're clearing most doubles at trail centres and landing clean and in control, then you've most likely got the basics down.
Bigger jumps just require a bit more speed and having your head in the right place. If you can visualise yourself cleaning a bigger gap, then you can do it. If you can't, then you can choose to skip it, or have a go anyway 😈
Scroll to 3:04 in - don't do that
Scroll to 3:25 in - do it like that
More instructive than you might think - the obvious difference is a distinct backwards shift of weight in the latter.
Like most middle aged IT professionals on here I'd like to be able to jump, but can't, though I'm still keen to learn if it's possible to do painlessly.
some good advice starting to appear here.
A 'just go for it' approach has worked for me so far. But I hope an educated approach will get me further
...pull up on bars...
Don't do this until you've really got the basic 'push' sorted. Humans tend to push symmetrically (good) but pull asymmetrically (bad - wonky flight, messy landing).
That's useful to hear chiefgrooveguru! I've witnessed that one first hand a few times!
Links to advice is also much appreciated, by me and I'm sure others.
I'm also interested in if/how technique defers between full sus and hardtail
More instructive than you might think - the obvious difference is a distinct backwards shift of weight in the latter.
Actually the critical difference is Gwinn was standing tall and relatively far forward when he hit the take-off, so the bike launched evenly off both wheels - the other rider had their weight too far back and the front went light and high but didn't get much spring whilst the heavily loaded rear launched hard and bucked the rider.
Technique is the same FS to HT, application can be a bit different from my experience.
After that find some more practice ones. I much preferred to learn over tables though.
^^this
The endo Yeti, looked like he was stiff on the bike, let his mass get pushed rearwards as the bike started front wheel up the ramp, then of course, as the front wheel drops, and the rear rides up the ramp, those stiff arms simply start to pull your mass forwards again, which due to the siff arms you can't do anything about. Cue big OTB! (I should know, i've done precisely this!)
Gwinn starts very low, head near the bars, and stands up early, compressing the bike square into the ground in front of the ramp, then allows the bars to come back rapidly BACKWARDS towards him on the ramp, shortly afterwards absorbing the back of the bike up into his body (by bending legs and simultaneously extending his arms) This also has the effect of pushing the bike out infront of him, but cruically it occurs after the ramp/lip. In this fashion he de-couples the rotation of the bike during the ramp from rotation of his mass, and hence flies straight and true without under/over rotation.
Easier said than done of course!
Thanks for those points - one other very obvious thing is that the first rider has straight arms when the front wheel comes up, whereas Gwinn's arms are really bent - he's absorbing the bump to some extent and letting the bike flow underneath him, rather than letting it control him.
I think I understand what's going on - putting it into practice is another matter entirely.
I think I understand what's going on - putting it into practice is another matter entirely.
Thats where coaching (formal or informal) comes in. Got a camera that does video? Take that out and film yourself, review it over and over, make small changes and see what the results are.
If you can do a bunny hop (with flat pedals) then you can clear doubles.
Just practise bunny hops but slow it down so you can feel what the exact technique is then transfer the techniqe to the trails.
Worked for me.
what if you can occasionally do crap bunny hops with flats?
I can bunny hop a uni if that helps at all?
I finally figured out my whole approach to jumping is to not jump- I just naturally soak up the takeoff and keep things low. Which is a pretty dang useful skill but I wish it wasn't all I can do, it's not so handy when you've got something to clear!
So, off to Dirtschool. No doubt I could figure it out myself but why put in independant effort when you can throw £10 notes at a problem? 😉
aracerI can bunny hop a uni if that helps at all?
Anything higher than a polytechnic (remember them!) and i'm out!
Northwind, it's actually a very useful skill. Went to see Jedi for a jumps and drops course recently. He spent time making sure we had the absorb dialled to improve the jumping.
Throwing ten pound notes at the problem? Maybe, but we avoiding having to learn from our mistakes and never felt like we were at risk of crashing our tits off. Money well spent I think.
I found my DH / Trail jumping skills came on after practising first at those small BMX tracks in parks and then on the 'chicken' line at my local proper DJ set.
Air time is also about confidence and being relaxed in the air and not going stiff 'dead sailoring' mid air which comes with practice.
Second shout for a skills day.
I've done 2 days with different coaches.
Tom Dowie at Chicksands is a really nice guy and fantastic bike handler, his drops and jumps morining/afternoon was good and informative.
Neil Donughue's day out was enjoyable for me but my mate didn't enjoy it and thought is was a waste of money.
I saw Fabien Barel coaching guys on my last trip to the Alps too many years ago, it looked like a fun boot camp with one the finest bike riders in the world. He is crackers!
Golfers spend fortunes on Pro's showing them how to hit a ball!
What?! Don't bunnyhop over jumps! (Unless you're prejumping them).
Skills days aren't essential, just ride with people who are confident on how to jump, watch them, follow them, ask them for tips.
Some.. ah.. interesting advice being given here. A lot of the technique/stance depends on the type of double being hit too..
There are so many different types of jumps that there really isn't a generic method that will cover all the different scenarios.
I agree with Duane, ride with people who comfortable jumping, this will help you get your speed and technique right.
Learn to anticipate when things are going tits up and how to dump the bike (my favourite is the heal clicker to run out) and then not be hit by it, a seat to the face hurts - trust me.
I didn't mean bunny hop over the jump but from the lip of the jump.
I've noticed that a lot of people try to do too much when learning to jump - pulling, pushing, wrenching etc. You should be able to clear the majority of jumps you are likely to encounter on an MTB with 'just' the correct speed and good body position. DON'T pull the bars or pedals! Neutral position, stay 'firm' through the take off. Start small and work you're way up. Pumping and squashing come with practice. Relax.
Start small...build up, as and when you are confident just try different things, trial & error, it's kind of instinctive really, I had a play the week end mid 18 mile XC loop...check it out...
http://www.pinkbike.com/video/308698/
That sounds like good advice adsick 😀
Brian Lopes. Mastering Mountain Bike Skills is a good book (IMO)to get started and understanding how to jump (and a lot more). I like the way it's written - some don't.
"You should be able to clear the majority of jumps you are likely to encounter on an MTB with 'just' the correct speed and good body position."
Sorry, going to disagree with you there - if I rode the jumps I am likely to encounter with "just" the correct speed and body position, well, it wouldn't end well.
But again, it depends hugely on the jumps. If they're just fly-off jumps then yeah, you don't need to do anything, if they're decent jumps or doubles, then you might want to be a bit more "active"
And Ian, no, still, you shouldn't be bunnyhopping, especially off the lip. Totally different technique, and that is seen far too often (normally at places like the freeride park at Glentress..)
You should be able to clear the majority of jumps you are likely to encounter on an MTB with 'just' the correct speed and good body position
Works at least 50% of the time.....
Learning how works much better, learning to spot the type of jump that is coming and changing your approach or bailing as needed. I saw bit of the Lopes book and there is plenty online. In the end if you can't find a mate to tell you try coaching, it works (heaps more choices than the default Jedi response on here too - if you don't live in the south)
The OP was talking about trail centre doubles, which ime are just little booters with a landing X feet away. Correct speed and technique is enough to get clear these.
Proper dirt jumps are a different bag altogether need a different approach, but that's for another day...
Don't do this...
If you look at what happens, I'd say he lets the bike fully compress and then remains almost sitting down, when the bike uncompresses and he extends, of course, he and the bike over-rotates forward leaving him to land on his nose and go over the bars...
Not good.
Look how his forks and frame bend and shudder when it hits the ground... 😯
jumping is 90% bottle 5% technique and 5% repetition i learned to do it aged about 7 on a raleigh striker without a skills coach in sight
b45her - Member[b]bad[/b] jumping is 90% bottle 5% technique and 5% repetition i learned to do it aged about 7 on a raleigh striker without a skills coach in sight
Howzat!
I've not ridden a trail centre route with proper doubles yet..
You need to learn how to pump the transitions. Don't bunny hop and don't pull up!
As tom says above - its all in the pump.
And don't wear carpet slippers like the above video, that's clearly his problem!
I find the best way to learn and think about jumping is to do it off the bike.
Go outside and try and jump as high as you can with flat feet. Notice that in order to jump you need to compress into the ground and push off.
This is what you are doing when jumping a bike, pushing your feet into the pedals rather than pulling.
When you come to jump think about pushing your weight into the transition through your feet and keeping you hands light on the bars.
I said 'the majority of jumps' for a reason - most people get hung up on trying to do too much on the lip. Learning correct speed and good position is the first thing to do. Dirt jumps or big gaps on DH tracks might require more technique but I'd class these as advanced and not what we are talking about.
I very much strongly suggest that good bunny hop technique is very much applicable to good jumping technique (pumping technique too).
However a strong starting point, as suggested earlier is simply correct speed combined with a central, strong body position, with minute adjustments in the air to keep things smooth. So no absorbing of the lip, no pumping, purely going off the kicker and learning what happens as you go off varying kicker shapes. To add extra at this point would simply over complicate things.
Then, once you're more proficient, good jumping/pumping is purely modifications in the timing of a good bunny hop, of which you can't learn until you understand what is happening as a bike goes off of a take off.
cheers for the advice guys!
any more links to educational videos or webpages?