[Closed] Jumping - Educate me

[url=

to jump with Fabian Barel[/url]

I can't help you personally as I normally sail through the air unintentionally (then crash) but I was just watching some good vids by Fabian Barel which you might find useful.

Tip 1 - Go see Jedi, no really!
Tip 2 - Look where you are going to take off from
Tip 3 - Don't look where you are going to land - look at where you are going after you land
Tip 4 - have two 9's pre-entered on your mobile, so there's just the last one to press if it all goes wrong 😉

Thanks ryan - though that video doesn't actually tell me how to jump [i]with[/i] Fabien Barel 😀 Though seriously, I found that he doesn't go into enough detail on the take off and where your weight should be when you're in the air.

Piedi - Like I said, am well keen and it's my bday coming up so fingers crossed. But realistically won't be until next year and I would like to reach a personal plateu before getting tuition

The Barel video is good. A day with Jedi is better.

Start on something really small (even a kerb) and only move on to bigger stuff once your brain and body are confident.

Weight centred (stood up, pedals level, hips over BB).
Don't pull up on the bars to take off!
Unweight the bike a bit before the lip of whatever you're jumping off.
Look at where you're going AFTER the landing.

Stay loose/relaxed and push rather than pull. Pump the transition and look ahead.

- start small
- practice your 'push' (as it sounds - pushing the bars forward - you can use the technique to lift the front wheel over obstacles by way of practice)
- speed is important - too much is as bad as not enough. Jedi had me clearing his six foot double from a shortish roll in down a slight slope - no pedalling required 🙂 So try a smallish jump at lowish speed and gradually increase depending on your results
- pedals level as you approach, stood up, knees bent a little
- pick the point you're going to push - before the lip / take off point and once that's done you should be looking where you're going and where you'll be landing

think that's it - best of luck!

Being able to do proper bunnyhops helps. And then just do what tom said.

Although people saying "push" rather than "pull" may confuse you. You want to be pumping (pushing I guess) through the bottom of the take off and then soaring off the top of the lip. Pull up if you want to go really high.

If you push off the top of the lip you tend to go really low which is good if you're going very fast but it isnt really jumping.

It seems that it's tough to learn with a transition (take off ramp) shorter than the bike length.
Can you bunny hop, some jumpers bunny off the lip.

Maybe go to a BMX track, or pump track, observe and try copy.
"pump" the transition. (lower your weight into the bike (just like you'd do if jumping on the spot without a bike)
If you ride a pump track you'll likely start to get off the ground naturally as you learn to pump.
If landing back wheel first (typical fault) then pull your head forward in the air, I know it sounds weird but it works, start that move in small steps though.
Spot the landing.
enjoy
wear pads and a good helmet.

If you push off the top of the lip you tend to go really low which is good if you're going very fast but it isnt really jumping.

Totally agree DT, with that and also the pulling up on the bars bit. If i'm going for it i'm generally pulling up like frig. I'm not just pulling though, combined with a bit of a push (to get the distance - more push equals more length) and a bit of tuck for more height.

OP - Its hard to explain jumping in words without doing the actions, but if it helps, i'm doing them now.

mudfish - lower your weight into the bike (just like you'd do if jumping on the spot without a bike

Practice off the bike too. Roll your hips backwards and down when pumping and forwards and up when boosting off. Think circular rather than up and down movements. Works a treat for me.

Thing is, all that ^^ takes good timing and that only comes with practice. Lots of practice.

If your just learning keep it simple. Get used to how it feels being weightless and try to keep loose and centred over the bike in the air. It doesn't take much body movement to affect your trajectory as you've probably discovered 😀 .

1. Buy monster(TM) trucker hat.
2. There is no step 2. With monster(TM) in your life you will have all the skills you need for rad^sick.

Thanks chaps - some really helpful stuff here. Especially the pre-take off stuff.

I will put it all into action this weekend / annoy Bowland Mountain Rescue even more 🙂

If you only remember two things, try to remember these:

1 Stay relaxed / loose on the bike.
2 Dont pull up.

If you can do these two things you can get away with a lot of the rest and slowly build up. Its also a good idea to have someone watch and tell you how you look in the air or how you land.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but try and practise on a table top too, once you're clearing the table and landing with your front wheel (slightly) first on the downslope and feel in control in the air then you're probably going OK.

The below extract from [i]Mastering Mountain Bike Skills[/i] made it click for me, you pretty much just push down with your legs on the up ramp, keep your arms loose and [u]stay relaxed[/u].

1. Coast in a neutral position. Center yourself over your pedals, arms and legs
slightly bent. Pedals should be level.
2. Crouch down as you approach the jump. This is all in your legs. Let your arms
follow.
3. Your crouch should be lowest when you reach the bottom of the face. Note
how the front tire is on the face and the rear tire is just reaching it.
4. From your low position, immediately begin to spring upward. Don’t hang out in
a crouch. Bend down and then immediately pop back up like you’re bouncing
on a trampoline. This is the crux move.
5. Push down with your legs as you ride up the face. The harder you cram your
bike into the face of the jump, the more lift you’ll get. Push all the way up the
face. Big jumps require a longer, slower push than tiny jumps. For max lift,
straighten your legs all the way as you reach the lip. This should be almost all
leg power; your arms follow.
6. As you leave the lip, bend your arms and legs to let your bike rise into your
body. This gives you added clearance, and it helps to keep you loose in the
air.

[img] [/img]

Nealy - fasntastic! Thanks a lot. I've actually got that book (which is excellent btw), but your notes and the added context on the other posters means it makes a lot more sense.

There are 2-3 back to back table tops on the Hope Line at Gisburn, so hopefully by the end of Sunday i'll be clearing them (hopefully not getting ahead of myself)

Happy riding!

After breaking some bones and getting a metal plate in my shoulder last year I turned into a scardy cat on jumps.

I asked people for advice, read lots of stuff online, all that, but when it came to it I ran out of bottle. Really the only way to learn is to repeat the same jumps loads till you're faster/higher.

I got over my irrational fear by spending the day alone at Innerleithen pushing up Make or Brake, gradually getting more confident. I now need a bigger chainring if I'm going to ride them quicker. After [url= http://app.strava.com/rides/25832810 ]my 17th run at them[/url] I learned to love jumping again 🙂

TLDR: Find some wee ones, repeat till happy, move on to bigger ones.

Okay then, how about jumping things like logs where there's no lip or face to the jump? I can sort-of get the back wheel off the ground by pulling up on my SPDs, but how can I improve things?

Okay then, how about jumping things like logs where there's no lip or face to the jump? I can sort-of get the back wheel off the ground by pulling up on my SPDs, but how can I improve things?

You need to learn to bunny hop. You don't pull up with your spuds, you lean back to lift the front wheel (like a manual) then lift the rear wheel using a scooping motion in your ankles.

Watching youtube or reading about it will only confuse things. Get someone who can bunny to show you how - it's dead easy

I've been told it's dead easy before now and never got the hang of it... will perhaps learn to manual and then ask someone tame to help out...

Manualling, for me, is harder than bunny-hopping. It's the ultimate test of bike control - and something no matter how many hours I spend practising I only manage to get going for a few seconds 🙁

With jumping, bottle isn't the problem (my mrs. would say I've got too much), from ski-ing i'm happy to be in the air for a long time. It's just skill and ability I lack 😉

Start off small, say a curb and get used to that. Don't try for the big gap jumps first! Later if you can find a nice, not too high table top use that to practice on.
Remember to pump rather than pull up on the bars. That diagram in a previous post is pretty good.
Approach at a speed you are comfortable with and one where you are balanced.
Drop your saddle right down.
Check the rebound on your suspension, make sure it's not at the full zebedee, you don't want any suprises e.g. if the back end of the bike is bucking you slow the rear rebound down. If you are running a CCDB it's the HSR circuit you need to tinker with.
Tell someone where you are and when you will be back, take a phone and keep it with you.
Take food and plenty to drink. Repeating the same run over and over again is actually very tiring.
If you have all the protection gear, wear it e.g. full face helmet.
Jedi is your man.
I am not an expert so if you fall off and hurt yourself it's your own silly fault, nobody made you do this!

Check the rebound on your suspension, make sure it's not at the full zebedee, you don't want any suprises e.g. if the back end of the bike is bucking you slow the rear rebound down. If you are running a CCDB it's the HSR circuit you need to tinker with.

My rear suss is Rock Shox Monarch RL, but i'm really struggling to figure out how to adjust it properly?! Only ever ridden hard-tail before, so struggling with all the new knobs!

The contradictory advice on these threads always worries me a little as the OP has no way of knowing how good the person giving the advice actually is! Great to see you are already planning on getting some coaching, hopefully they will put right all us lot have made wrong 😉

Go see Jedi. You'll be flying in no time!

Slowrider - I found, on this thread at least, the advise to be incredibly consistent. I guess with jumping there is a right way and a wrong way, gravity doesn't allow for opinions!

[[i]takes willy out[/i]]

Mine (and DTs) tip of pulling on the bars works. Granted, it's not for beginners and not something most coaches will tell you. They'll be showing you the basics and that's the way it should be.

slowrider - the OP has no way of knowing how good the person giving the advice actually is!

True.

[[i]waves it a bit[/i]]

This pic was taken of me almost 20 years ago at a comp. My mate Will (owner/editor of DigBMX) asked me along and despite having not ridden a bmx in almost 18 months I entered the KOD and won, beating several english pros.

Midway though a table 360...

[img] [/img]

[[i]puts it away[/i]] 😉

mid way through a table 3.

[img] [/img]

(not me)

That's a much nicer pic than mine. Git has more style too 🙂

Any excuse to post my favourite riding photo ever. Someone (not me) roasting a fat double!

[img] [/img]

all 360s must now be done at this angle, otherwise sufficient style has not been achieved.

IMO etc.

[img] [/img]

(still not me)

This is me. And next week, if I remember the camera, I'll post up the night version. Dirt jumps freak me out though, so respect to anyone who does that!

"My rear suss is Rock Shox Monarch RL, but i'm really struggling to figure out how to adjust it properly?! Only ever ridden hard-tail before, so struggling with all the new knobs!"

1. Set the sag properly. Wear all you kit and gently get on the bike and leaning against a sturdy wall/fence get into your normal riding position or the 'attack' position letting the bike settle, some gentle (very gentle) bouncing is fine to help this. Your shock should have a rubber O ring on the piston. Check to see how much that has moved. Somewhere around 25 to 33% is fine.
2. Set the rebound. Find out how many clicks of adjustment there are so go from fully out to fully in counting the clicks. Initially start about half way.
3. Find a piece of trail that you are familiar with and ride it over and over again making small changes to the shock, noting what change you make each time. Keep doing this until you are happy and comfortable on the bike.
4. If you are into jumping you don't want to be bucked and also on steep hills (going down them) you don't want the back of the bike pushing you forwards. If this happens slow the rebound down. If the opposite is happening i.e. the back of the bike, feels dead/wooden speed the rebound up.

Don't go too mad, your suspension settings will always be a compromise i.e. don't stress about it juts get it so it works well most of the time.

I'm not sure if you have compression adjusters on your shock?

Mine (and DTs) tip of pulling on the bars works. Granted, it's not for beginners and not something most coaches will tell you. They'll be showing you the basics and that's the way it should be.

Yup, theres a difference between the jumping a coachwill teach you and actually being able to jump properly (or at least I imagine there is)

A good coach like jedi will get you clearing small gaps with mellow take offs and landings without bother. You dont need to pull up oto do this, its just a case of floating over it. Most of it is in your head.

However, jumping high over steep dirt jumps and spines/volcanos (proper jumps?) requires a different approach.

For example, heres a table picture at Burnley skatepark (before it closed :(). It was done off some pissy flat bank which is basically just a flat wedge at about a 45 degree angle. Theres no way I would have got that high if I'd just pushed forward off the take off.

[IMG] [/IMG]

I tend to avoid the "push" with the arms. Use your legs and your arms will follow, you have barely any weight going through your arms so pushing with them will only make for stiff arms when you unweight the bike off the takeoff.

I coach people to use different points of the takeoff to apply weight to to change height and length etc rather than keeping one standard pump and then having to manipulate the bike causing you to stiffen and take too much control. Dial the takeoff and stay relaxed through. Spot the bottom of your landing and not the top to line you up with it.

Hope this helps in any way.

Thanks Tom.

That actually makes a lot of sense, because sometimes I miss judge the takeoff and found that having pumped my arms I'm in a rigid position.

I've found my improvement has been gradual over the weeks as opposed to any step change after a big sesh.

Thanks for all the tips!

no worries bud. Glad it makes sense. See if it helps you out.

The more you working on pumping and pumping with your legs the better jumper you'll be.

Good luck!

Tom

Never thought about 'how' I jump - been doing it for so long!

My parents still have a video from when I was 6, clearing some home-made doubles out of planks of wood...

My advice would be to book yourself in with Tom dowie for a 2 hour jump session. I race Bmx and felt my jumping was holding me back as I didn't like to hit the bigger jumps. I can honestly say that after practicing what we went through on the session I'm hitting bigger jumps safely with confidence. Obviously practice makes perfect but it's practicing the ''right" technique that's important.
Get booked in. Very reasonable prices too.

You won't believe me, but I've got Tom's website on my favourite's tab, just waiting for the right time to book.

What's the STW discount rate Tom? Hello....

Awesome :).

Afraid no discount but my 2 hour jump courses are £45!

Hopefully seen you soon bud

Some great advice on here, and not contradictory for once 🙂
Another vote for skill training too, get thee to the Jedi Master

This is probably the best thread I've seen on jumping, thanks folks. Normally so much contradictory advice and arguing. 🙂

Tomdowie - where are you based?

great thread!
though i feel pretty comfortable in the air, i'm looking to go bigger and the pictures and words that point to the need for pushing into the face of the jump with yer legs makes so much sense, but it's never something i've been conscious of...

psyched to try it out tomorrow.
ta.

grum - Member
This is probably the best thread I've seen on jumping, thanks folks. Normally so much contradictory advice and arguing.

Tomdowie - where are you based?

I'm based out of chicksands but work out of other venues too.

Yer everyone gets too caught up in pushing with their arms. Focus on the legs and the more effective pump you'll create.

How to jump with Fabian Barel

you should put the subtitles on for this video - they are hilarious

Great thread. A lot of it seems to be mind games (for me anyway)