...would you get if you wanted something for all day rides (but probably not overnight/bikepacking trips) in hilly places (north Scotland) but also for playing about on twisty singletrack or places like Laggan or Nevis Range.
Out of the various steel options - spaceframe and truss, diamond and truss, diamond and unicrown etc.
Space frame with fat fork for all day comfort and it's good for 1 night light weight summer bike packing as well.
Diamond frame for bike packing.
Space frame and truss ideal but if not then definitely the truss fork as its lots better than the unicrown for trail riding, albeit that's still a very good fork. However, as a 6ft 3 ex-Jones owner if your username hints at your size then I would be looking at the Jones Plus as well.
My username hints at my shape and weight, not so much my height 🙂
Is the plus still good in the twisty stuff?
(I have watched the videos, but a good rider can make any bike look good).
FWIW, my experience of taking a fatbike through Laggan isn't one I'll be looking to repeat. It works better (much better) at Glentress.
Is the plus still good in the twisty stuff?
Rode one for a bit in the Chilterns (home of twisty singletrack) and it was laff out loud fun, get one!!
Why was that scotroutes? Which tracks at Laggan?
Any disadvantages to the Plus then?
Last Autumn I had the pleasure of riding some of my local trails that I know very well for an evening switching between a Standard Jones Diamond frame with Fat Front and the Jones Plus. Both courtesy of Peanut off of here. (Peanut we need to head out again soon.)
Both great bikes and felt really confidence inspiring on the trails I was riding. A few jumps and techy bits and I was tackling with more confidence than my Scandal 29...and this was first outing on bike I hadn't ridden before.
At first I preferred the standard with Fat Front. It handled more like I thought a bike should. Bit more nimble. But by the end of the session I had learnt a bit more about how to ride the plus. I guess more of a rear wheel steer style. And I was sold.
Saving for a Plus.
Salsa Fargo Ti with Jones Loops FTW
I guess more of a rear wheel steer style.
This sounds fun.
I bought Gotama's diamond frame with unicrown and ran it originally with a Nate up front. Now running a 29x3 Knard.
It's a fantastic bike. First ride on my local trails felt really odd, (I'd been riding my Mukluk mainly in the run up), and the nimbleness and comparatively short wheelbase caught me off guard at the first drainage ditch I crossed. Had a bit of a 'WTF have I bought moment', but quickly came to love how it rides.
Felt totally assured pointing straight down steep trails, the bike is really nimble, yet reassuring for low speed tech. So easy to get out of the saddle for powering up short climbs.
Mismatched tyres can keep thing interesting. Had some twitchy moments riding down steep/wet grass with the rear Saguaro trying to overtake the Nate up front. 🙂
Running the Knard up front has transformed it into more of an XC mile muncher and it's very comfortable all day long. Takes a little while to settle on bar/stem and EBB setup. Toe overlap can be an issue, depending on tyre/EBB/cleat setup. Never used to be an issue for me, but finding it more of a problem with my new winter boots (size 12 feet) and the Knard , not insurmountable though, I just need to tweak my setup a bit.
As I said the other day in another thread, the limiting factor for me is the same as any hardtail -how much battering my legs can take before I slow down on the rough stuff.
[quote=thegreatape ]Why was that scotroutes? Which tracks at Laggan?
Anything too lengthy/rocky. I found the undamped rebound too much to cope with and found I was either being bounced around too much or having to ride really slowly in more of a "trials" style. The added grip of the 4" tyre isn't much of advantage in that scenario. Glentress, being faster and smoother, is just much more fun and the occasional rockier bits easier to cope with/shorter.
That makes sense.
Cheers vorlich, sounds promising.
I've not ridden a plus but my diamond unicrown is lovely. I use it for the riding you describe with the emphasis on the 'playing about' and an occasional long day.
It really does handle very well. It reminds me of my old DMR trailstar, but (very) comfy, it's so eager to jump and pump but I can ride it a decent distance with ease.
I bought it as it was being sold too cheap to say no to; I was ready to be skeptical, but now I am a total convert.
Wheelies better than any bike i've ever owned too.
Oh, it came with a fat-front too. I hated that! swapped the wheels and am much happier.
The fat front had some strange handling quirks at slow speed, so much grip that the steering didn't want to change line, almost as if the headset was too tight. I didn't like it.
The Plus felt a lot more planted to me on a car-park type spin that was nowhere near what I'd call a test ride. It's certainly harder to wheelie on initial impressions, no suprise with that wheelbase, but I can see it being a fast bike and the initial handling feel was typical Jones good stuff. For me it just didn't feel like the bike to replace the std Jones for most of my riding but I'd love one for bikepacking trips - have been dithering over whether I can justify it for a while.
For fast singletrack I still think the std Jones design is the most fun I've had on a bike. Playful like the little Chameleon I had yet great for long rides. Had one 4 yrs + and still have a buzz from riding it. 2.4 Ardents on big rims work well for me. The steel diamond with Ti truss could be the best vfm combo, I have a steel diammond and a Ti SF, both with truss forks. If I could only keep one it'd be a genuinely tough decision. The Ti is smooth, a unique ride, but the steel bike has all the ride benefits apart from the seated comfort and added spring - those are the icing on the cake though, the geometry and truss fork are most of the good stuff and the steel bike has that.
Def go for the truss fork if you can. In your position I'd want to know that the spring of the steel SF justified the added weight. I'm no weenie but knowing the difference between Ti SF and steel diamond I'd expect it to be a subtle difference to some. Steel SF looks great though, best looking option of the lot imo and the added standover is nice but not essential.
Ive had both the diamond and the spaceframe, like jameso, I love it to bits. Diamond was a fab bike, but the space frame is just that bit more magic. Id have loved a ti version, but having tried one I found I could tie it in knots when mauling up hill ss stylee. The steel sf, just seems to be perfect go to bike for my riding. Have only had a quick spin on the plus and its great but just feels a bit " big" for cheeky tight singletrack that I like, but as a long distance off road gear hauler it would be fab
The steel space frame definitely offers some damping properties over the diamond. It's hard to describe but it almost feels like a bigger volume tyre on the rear. I wouldn't get hung up on it but if the additional cost isn't a problem it's worth it. I personally didn't notice the extra weight over my diamond but I did only use the bike for 2hr trail rides rather than long all day epics and I'm also c.95kg geared up so possibly less noticeable than for someone lighter.
It's about £400 difference I think. When you add in the special hub and headset even the steel ones come to quite a price if building one up from scratch. My arithmetic gets me to just shy of £3k for a steel space frame (although that's with Hope wheels, 11 speed XT, a dropper and Hope brakes).
ust shy of £3k for a steel space frame (although that's with Hope wheels, 11 speed XT, a dropper and Hope brakes).
£ well spent I'd say. A lot for a rigid steel bike in some ways but the quality and durability makes it look better the longer you keep it.
Not sure what Hope rim spec is but don't skimp on the rims, get wide ones.
The Hope Fatsno hub comes in 135mm with front disc spacing and is 70 quid rather than the bonkers price for jeff's hub. One benefit of the diamond is that it cuts down on the number of "what is that bike" comments you get! It's also a lot easier to clean!
I priced that up with a Hope Tech Enduro back wheel and the same rim with a Jones hub for the front. Do the Hope fat hubs fit, I thought it put the rotor in the wrong place, might be wrong though?
Steel Spaceframe or Diamond frame and truss fork, they are very versatile bikes, i love mine.
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Hope do a Fatsno with front disc spacing so it's correctly spaced. For the rear you need a standard 135 as I'm sure you know. Strada wheels built a front for me for my space frame. If you want to save a bit of money and you're not building your own wheels then JustRidingAlong can build the fatsno front and combine it with one of their own brand rears which are bitex hubs and supposedly excellent.
I'd also echo and add emphasis on jameso's comment re wide rims. Speak to Jeff if in doubt but i'd suggest the hopes are too narrow. Something like a Easton Arc 30 as a minimum but I ran mine with velocity dually rims with 2.4 ardent tyres.
Rims and bars are, aside from the frame, the most important bits on a Jones. Everything else can be upgraded over time.
Cheers. I just picked the Hope Enduros for adding up purposes as I'm familiar with them.
As a Jones curious voyeur on STW I'm keen to know if a Spaceframe is worth the money and specifically is it worth nearly four times the price of a Stooge? I haven't ridden either and I'm aware that they are different beasts but the rider position ideology is similar isn't it?
Secondly, anyone know of a used Spaceframe that might be for sale
almost 5 years on a ti space frame. haven't tried the plus.
i still cant believe how good the bike is. I've done some simple backpacking on it, big days up mountains. riding in all weather. fat front is great for super muddy hard days. the 29 (or 29+) front is great for bike packing and faster drier days.
took me ages to get the bars and everything dialled but its now prefect. started off as a 30 speed, now a 10 and thinking about doing some dingle/singlespeed for the summer.
jack of all trades with a fair mastery of most. if only i was half as good as the bike.
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From what I've seen the stooge is a fair way off the jones geometry. Front end is similar but there's more to each bike than just that.
Kind of fallen out of love a little bit with my Diamond frame and unicrown over the Winter but I suspect it's got a lot to with poor tyre choice and the sheer quantity of mud making most rides a slog!
1 x 11 has helped and desperate to get some truss forks, think it would bring the love back and would make it the Jones for me.
Plus has never particularly appealed to me but I can see why it would for some. Don't know if it's height thing, I'm 5ft 11 but it just feels like too much bike for me.
Steel diamond with truss here - not much new to add other than to back up the idea of going for the truss fork, I got one last year after bending my old style unicrown fork in a crash. The precision in handling with the truss fork is great, but do plan on a decent sized front tyre - it is stiff!
My perception is that all the bikes have the same core handling traits, the different options just put subtle-ish tweaks on that. Various friends that rode mine with the unicrown fork - ie most "basic" setup - all went away wanting one!
There never seem to be many people who've ridden one and then not liked it, on this or any other thread I've seen.
@ gunnagofasta
Yeah the cost is a concern, i'm not mega rich so the steel spaceframe and front wheel were a big investment for me, now i have the thing though i consider it money well spent, i feel so happy when i ride it and i don't think about what bike i want to try next like i used to. I will be keeping this one unless i find myself in a position to get the Ti one, and even then i would find it hard to sell this this one.
I took a steel space frame/ truss round laggan at a demo a few years back. Easily the best rigid bike I've ridden apart from my current fatbikes. I don't have the benefit of comparing the others, but I'd happily have the one I rode for all day riding in the highlands. I'd like to try the plus. The geo seems all wrong, but I thought that about fat tyres whn I saw them years ago....
Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. The steel spaceframe/truss was the one I was eyeing up (hypothetical ly just now).
@ thegreatape
How close are you to Leicestershire?
About 400 miles off the top of my head
Lol, ok then, was going to offer to loan you mine to try.
I guessed you were - thanks anyway, very kind of you 🙂
Been riding my Ti Spaceframe for over 6 years, wouldn't ride anything else!
I've tried on four occasions to match the ride of a Jones and each time admitted defeat and sold them...
Weapon of choice is a 29+ fronted Diamond with a Ti Truss fork, I'm lucky enough to have a 24" plus and steel Diamond but always compare the ride to the Diamond
4" tires are overkill on the front and if you blindfold me I can't tell the ride between the Spaceframe and Diamond, it's just easier to clean and less attention seeking than it's swoopy brother
Plus is a fun all day plugger, but not as playful as the other two
The truss fork really is the key, so much more compliant than the Unicrown and so nice to ride with a 3" tyre
🙂