I have watched the tour a few times this week, narry a none white face, if there are I missed them. Odd for such a big event that I had presumed attracted a very wide following.
Not after a fighty thread just an observation is all.
lets be honest and non racist.
cycling is a european sport.
It isnt though is it. It may be a westernised world sport, but certainly is not european.
Definitely not European. America sometimes takes it more seriously then England, for example.
But yeah, it is a white man's sport. I've met one black cyclist. But then how many men in a 100m final are white?
bikerbruce - Member
lets be honest and non racist.
cycling is a [b]rich[/b]european sport.
African teams have enetered the cycling events in the commonwealth games, but famously in the Manchester Games one team travelled without bikes, and were helped out by a local bike shop, while another took the M61 towards Bolton, to get to the area where the cycling events were being held - they were riding along the hardshoulder when the police escorted them off!
Got a feeling that culturally cycling in many none european countries is seen more as essential transport rather than sport - good article in C+ a couple of months ago about "coffee bikes", recycled MTBs provided to assist fair trade growers to get their produce to market.
I've know a couple of black cyclists at club level.
To be blunt and speaking generally I don't think top flight cycling is something that 'interests' the western black community. Not that it is top priority to the white community.
A bit like Asian Indians and professional football.
I await the usual 'you must be a racist' comments.
http://vannevar.blogspot.com/2009/07/major-taylor-tour-de-france-racism.html
The peloton doesn't seem to want any black riders. The races that feed the TdF don't seem to have a lot of black riders. The sponsors don't seem to want any black riders.
Black guy riding the national circuit race champ last night.
I was thinking similar thoughts at a recent marathon event, out of some 800 starters i saw only two non-white faces.
I don't think it can be simplified as 'a rich middle class sport' because i am neither rich nor middle class although i am white.
I suspect there are deeper cultural issues where cycling is not seen as a proper sport for certain cultural minorities.
Having said that, cycling isn't seen as a proper sport by the majority of indiginous ethnic Britons either 🙁
Cycling historically is a white, european, working class sport, much as football used to be. It's gradually becoming more of a middle class activity (STW- QED), but the big traditional cycling nations are still France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, etc.
The lack of 'black' professionals is a reflection of this cultural and social history. As it becomes more mainstream, more 'respectable' (ie you can make money from doing it), so it will begin to become attractive to a wider, more cosmopolitan section of the population.
how many non whites do you see out in the countryside in the uk?
I await the usual 'you must be a racist' comments.
I bet some of your closest friends are roadies 😀
A bit like Asian Indians and professional football.
That's always been a head scratcher for me because every 5/7-a-side football place I've been to has always had a lot of young asian guys playing.
the asians are mad for football
south korea always have a very good world cup
koreans in the premier league
japan has a 100 year plan for football,
as for mtbing
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he's better than you
dirtyrider,
Asian INDIANS - India, Bangladesh and ****stan, not Oriental Asians.
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err... right, ok. Yes, the Bangladesh cricket team are renowned for their dominance of world football.
Have you read and understood anything that's been posted on the thread?
White men can't jump
Black men can't cycle (or swim...)
Different races in good at different sports shocker
100m - athletes of west African origin
Distance running - athletes of east and north African origin
Endurance cycling - why not people of European origin...?
ioddrik you beaut.
its not racism its statistically analysis
dave clark is the best british coloured rider.
roman bhahiti is a ok us sprinter but theyre are very few decent coloured riders.....
In the same way there are very few marathon specialists not from kenya...
except smee of course who wins all. with his sub minute mile.
Does everybody have to do everything? I know one black guy who is an excellent cyclist and can trounce me any day but he says he doesn't know any other black guys who are interested. With regard to no black faces in the countryside debate, I used to work with an Asian woman who said her family simply couldn't understand why whitey wanted to spend time in the smelly countryside. To them country = poverty and backwardness.I can understand when Trevor Phillips talks about 'passive apartheid' in the country but surely that's as much about most black people choosing to live in town, there not being that many jobs in the country.
i once saw a black guy come into the bike 'shop' i work in. No wait there was a police man also.
Both were tanks with arms as big as my legs. 😥
There was an initiative to encourage more black people to enjoy the great oudoors and walking in particular.Until A West Indian community leader pointed out that walking back home meant you were poor and walked great distances to work, school and to get food etc and that it was looked upon as a chore not a leisure pursuit!!
you obviously missed the Japs then
elsewhere
http://tourofrwanda.com/
covered in an edition of Procycling
ASO are very keen in developing races in places that would surprise you
plenty of non-white people riding track at a high level
usual if it's not on TV or in STW it doesn't happen?
There was certainly an active road scene in Barbados when I was there on holiday and it wasnt a "white man's" sport.
That tour is racist article seemed like bull to me.
I think a huge amount of life is cultral. Japan aside I'm just not aware of cycling being big in non white cultures. I expect it will change with time.....
black - yes
coloured - no
Anyways, I'd always thought the TDF being as big as it is there would at least be a smattering of diversity; however from the reasons given above, I think I get part of why it isn't.
Its not racist. Thats like calling the 100m final at the olympics racist just because no white sprinters made the cut. If they are there and up to standard, they will race.
T'was in Bristol a month ago and saw an indian roadie in full out gear with a special' roadie turban-guessing he was a Sikh.
I thought that was great to see!
But he was difficult to overtake...while I was driving 😀
errrm, there are two black riders in this years tour.
Zakayo Ndbri and Mwangi Samwel as far as I know. Both Kenyan.
As above, any team who can find a rider who is lightning fast will pick them up, they really won't care about their skin colour. If they can win races then they've got a job. Plus, any team that is seen to be supporting black men know they will gets loads of positive feedback so they'll most probably be actively looking for black riders.
Why black men are not attracted to road racing is an entirely different matter and one that I personally think is based in history and culture. I don't think the black community in Europe or America are particularly drawn to road racing as a sport what with football and rugby being far more prominent/financially sound.
Maybe you should stand as an embassador eth3r, perhaps a black man would draw more support and encouragement to give it a try. One area that I reckon is a good starting point is track riding. The Manchester Velodrome is located right in the middle of a large black community yet no black riders ride the track (that I've seen and I'm there quite a bit) and Bauge at the very least has shown us that black riders can excel in such an arena.
[i]while another took the M61 towards Bolton, to get to the area where the cycling events were being held - they were riding along the hardshoulder when the police escorted them off! [/i]
This has happened about three times IIRC. I've even passed one set of lads on the M61 out for a quick training ride (these were czechs or something).
"theyre are very few decent coloured riders....."
too many colours if u ask me.
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That article also suggests the tour de france is sexist as there are no women in the race. It appears that because the female stage races and classics don't get the press mens do, the sport is sexist too. Basically that whole website is full of poorly thought out arguments to get hits but it seems they accept that the riders in it mostly are the best ones in the world.
Their suggestion - create a race within the TDF taking out all the hard bits for disadvantaged people like non-white riders and women. Surely that's more insulting?
The French did not like a white American winning their race so many times. Nuff said
Right that's it, I through with cycling.
Now where's my new kabadi strip....
If it's really muddy I often finish a ride looking like a black and white minstrel, does that earn me a lifetime ban?
I'd post a picture for comedy effect but somehow I think the more sensitive types on STW might die of shock and/or report me to the anti-hate police 8)
BikerBruce:
You surely must know that in say Apartheid, it was whites & coloureds.
BikerBruce:lets be honest and non racist
You never refer to a man or woman as a Coloured (as you did) - ever.
dave clark is the best british coloured rider.
roman bhahiti is a ok us sprinter but theyre are very few decent coloured riders.....
Unlike in swimming where the two body types are quite different, I too think it’s mostly a cultural phenomenon.
Well, if you're well informed you shouldn't but let's face it, not everyone is. It's not usually intended to be derogatory.
Plus you're not very well informed. Black people weren't the same as "coloured" under apartheid.
http://worldnews.about.com/od/ad/g/apartheid.htm
And to go further still I was recently told by a black American colleague that "black" is sometimes considered offensive in the US and that "African American" should be used instead.
Ok, how about half caste..... 🙄
That's just deliberately stirring on your part 🙄
😐
It's impossible to argue with the statement that professional road cycling, as sanctioned by the UCI (and therefore including the TDF), is predominantly a white, European sport; sure it's not exclusively so but a cursory look at the typical nationalities of the peleton will show this to be more or less true.
Probably it's cultural more than anything else. I really don't buy the bio-mechanical/race correlation, as I can't imagine two more different body types that say an Ethiopian long distance runner and an Afro-Caribbean 100m sprinter.
Perhaps more importantly do we really care or is it really that important. I can see and agree with the strong arguments for diversity in many areas like government, positions of power and influence in large organisations etc, but not so much in sport.
I don't buy into diversity by design, best person for the job is what it should be. White people are not demanding proportional representation in the mens 100m final and can you imagine the outcry if they were....?
You could make a case that people of west African origin 'may' be suited to sprinting but for endurance cycling, endurance AND strength is required and whilst people of east African origin certainly possess the endurance required, their body type means that they are highly unlikely to possess the strength required.
Looking at how White people compete at the higher levels in athletic disciplines, you could quite easily argue a case that they strike a balance between the two and therefore could well be more suited to the demands of endurance cycling...
When are we gonna drop the race thing, it’s oh so boring. We all share the same planet and breathe the same (polluted) air! Let’s all just group hug and eat lentils together!!
But why should we have to, why can't we acknowledge that people and things are different and look at the reason why without it being controversial??
It is a ridiculous situation where just by talking about something like this it can suddenly be racist. It is pathetic. I, and many others like me, are interested why.
And let's be honest, the mens 100m final has dine more than anything else to highlight that there are indeed differences between people. It certainly isn't because White people don't train as hard why we'll never see another White 100m world record holder.
Is the TDF just a white man's sport?
The same could be asked of swimming, why are there so few world class, black swimmers?
The same could be asked of swimming, why are there so few world class, black swimmers?
What about this guy??? [img] 
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'Is the TDF just a white man's sport?'
Not at all. Lance has a 'man of colour' polish his Nike's for him.
On a more serious note, Keirin in Japan is as popular over there as Horse-racing is over here.
At the tour there have been a few Latin and South Americans over the years. I can't think of any Asians or Africans though.
Different people are good at different stuff!
i stand to be corrected here, but are Caribbean genes not more commonly suited to fast twitch events? (there was a documentary on TV by Ben Johnson exploring this a while back)
wait until the velodrome opens to the public in London and you'll see some FAST dark riders coming through
We need more rappers on fixies.
Rappers don't kill people, fixies do.
[i]wait until the velodrome opens to the public in London and you'll see some FAST dark riders coming through [/i]
I'd like to think so but as I said above, Manchester Velodrome is right in the heart of a predominantly black community and I've seen no black lads riding there at all.
[b]samuri[/b] writes:
errrm, there are two black riders in this years tour.Zakayo Ndbri and Mwangi Samwel as far as I know. Both Kenyan.
Dude, your googling skills need work.
D-
The two riders mentioned above. No, they're not riding in the Tour but there's an interesting article written last year which mentions them.
> http://vannevar.blogspot.com/2009/07/major-taylor-tour-de-france-racism.html
about half way down the page.
and I've seen no black lads riding there at all.
Dude, your googling skills need work.
I think he mean 'seen' as in 'witnessed with my eyes unenhanced by the internet'...
Black men can't cycle (or swim...)
Bet Sir Chris Hoy wished that was true when Grégory Baugé knocked him out of the sprint at this years track champs..on his way to the gold - awesome rider..
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as for the OP it is all cultural... nothing more.
[b]simonfbarnes[/b] writes:
I think he mean 'seen' as in 'witnessed with my eyes unenhanced by the internet'...
And you get a D- for comprehension.
I do so tire of the racism card being played every time someone mentions race or colour. We've such paranoia instilled in us now that it makes it a bloody minefield, and causes more problems than it solves. when people use words like "black" and "coloured" [i]because as they're trying to use politically correct terms [/i]and still get pulled up on it for being racist there's no hope. It's not like the OP was sitting there going "I love cycling, there's no bloody nig-nogs" now, is it? Funny how no-one ever objects to being called "white." Funny also how it's the caucasians taking offence on behalf of everyone else.
There's no racism in this file as far as I can see, but there's quite a few people who perhaps need to stop reading the Daily Mail.
Racism is a horrible thing. People have been persecuted, enslaved, raped, beaten and murdered over the years because of racism. Please have a long hard think before you start accusing people of being racist for pointing out that different people prefer different sports.
</soapbox>
[b]crazy-legs[/b] writes:
The two riders mentioned above. No, they're not riding in the Tour but there's an interesting article written last year which mentions them.
Thanks for that.
The Count of Monte Cristo is riding in this year's Tour either, but there's an excellent novel by Alexandre Dumas that describes his vengeful adventures in 19th century France...
Can anybody else add to the list of people who aren't riding in this year's Tour de France?
Hey, I only made it clear that they weren't riding because someone earlier posted that they were. I was correcting erroneous information. You on the other hand are sounding like a prat...
And you get a D- for comprehension.
no, for speed reading actually 🙂
You lot are funny sometimes. Only sometimes though.
It's not like the OP was sitting there going "I love cycling, there's no bloody nig-nogs" now, is it?
I think the OP could confirm that that would be startlingly unlikely not to mention being a self-contradicting statement...
Yes yes I can confirm, startlingly unlikely.
[b]crazy-legs[/b] writes:
I was correcting erroneous information. You on the other hand are sounding like a prat...
Oh, the humanity!
I remember reading an article about one of the first black African pros to join a European Pro Tour Team, he was a lad from Kenya I think and rode for Barlow World.
Might be the same guy mentioned above.
As for le Tour being racist, WTF, other than Tiger and erm Tiger I can't think of any high level black golfers, anyone else? OK maybe not a good example as Golf isn't even a sport 😆 No black darts throwers either, or bowling (in a crown green/indoor style) all these racist sports, heavens above!!
I was thinking about this a while back - you really don't see many black or Asian people riding mountain bikes or indeed any kind of bikes in this country, full stop. Other than kids and the occasional commuter in London.
I accept that there might be a bike/walk = poor/lacking in status hangover from people's country of origin in the developing world, and that kids are likely to favour the cricket/football/athletics their parents encourage them towards, but surely this would apply more to older immigrants? We must be two or three generations down the line from that attitude, amongst people from the subcontinent or the West Indies, so why does cycling seem such a predominantly white pursuit?
Perhaps as white people just aren't cool, we think it's acceptable to go out for the day wearing tight multi-coloured lycra 😆
But then again
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It must be something else 
Silly thread.
P.S I'm friends and sometimes train with a top UK cyclist..who happens to be of mixed race.
[b]steve_b77[/b] writes:
I remember reading an article about one of the first black African pros to join a European Pro Tour Team, he was a lad from Kenya I think and rode for Barlow World.
You're not thinking of Chris Froome? Kenyan born and began his career racing as a Kenyan, he now has a British passport and racing license.
He's a paleface.
All this thread was missing was "Some of my best friends..." Bingo!
StefMcDef refering to my post? - How else does one go about saying it?
[i]Dude, your googling skills need work.[/i]
Indeed, or I shouldn't do it when I've been drinking. The reason I didn't question it was because I could have sworn I'd seen them riding. Never mind.