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Is ebiking "giving in/up"?

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How is riding an ebike not cycling? Really confused by this


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 7:22 pm
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Did it improve your inner grin?

It was woods, mud, roots, berms, how could it not? 😄


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 7:23 pm
fasthaggis, Tracey, fasthaggis and 1 people reacted
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This seems a bit delusional to me. The idea that riding an ebike is better for fitness than cycling.

Thats fair a comment, and I agree my statement does seem counterintuitive. But I now know your conclusion is made from a position of ignorance because I was there 3 weeks ago.

It's clear that plenty of riders are just slamming them into turbo and riding everywhere like that, and I think thats where most peoples thoughts about them stop. But its more nuanced than that.

Clearly, I can't speak for everyone's use, but whats happening with me is that at the top of every climb, I can use the bikes assistance to carry on riding whilst recovering instead of waiting for recovery stationary like I always have done.

So I continue.

Since these bikes won't provide assistance without pedaling, every aspect of the ride still requires my input and thus my exercise is more continuous rather than staccato, and goes on for longer, even at a lower level because of assist. My efforts on a ride appear to being smoothed on the peak output side of things, and look closer to the more steady output of a road ride.

Despite this, I can easily overmatch the power of the bike for short bursts, so I'm still getting access to veins bulging, eyes boggling, peak output moments, but as I tire during a ride I can rely in the bikes assistance a bit more and overall I'm doing more, not less.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 7:23 pm
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Why does stuff have to be 'ok'? Why is 'cheating' even mentioned?
People are out on their bikes enjoying what the world has, and likely gaining a level of enjoyment from it that may just make them inclined to look after it a bit more.

It smacks of elitism, and there are some pretty crappy attitudes to humans on this thread.
Why do we need another strand to the pathetic tribalism that already seems to exist between genre and micro genre in bike riding?

If I'm out on a bike, and I see someone else on a bike, It makes me happy. And chances are them as well.

It's like a bloody playground in here sometimes, and not in a good way.

Be nice, say hi.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 7:29 pm
ngnm, riklegge, kelvin and 7 people reacted
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I don't get how people are making comparison to things like larger cassette sprockets, mountain bikes with suspension etc. The main difference is that all those advanced in technology still relied 100% on the riders energy to move whereas an ebike adds a very significant amount of power via a motor. It's motorcycling.

I am not against them at all, my girlfriend has one as she's very much a part time recreational cyclist amongst too many other more primary hobbies, and it allows her to ride with me without being miserable, but I would never have one myself at the age of 30 I would just get fitter on my own legs if I wanted to.

I know a fair few people that have bought them, had them a year then sold them and came out significantly less fit despite riding significantly more. Garmin stats tell you nothing about how strong your leg muscles are or how sore they'll be the next day regardless of what heart rate they tell you you're riding at during the workout.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 7:35 pm
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For me an ebike would take away a huge part of what I find enjoyable about riding.
So much these days is 'assisted'- technology makes our lives easier in a huge amount of ways so I like to have something which takes a bit of effort to get the most out of it - my performance and ability (or lack of) on a bike is all down to me and nothing else.
At 52 I'm probably riding better than I ever have and don't (yet) feel the need for an ebike.
This is of course only my version of how to enjoy yourself on a bike, as long as whatever you do works for you then all is good.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 7:52 pm
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Had a chat with a guy on a Kenevo today, he was raving about how great his ebike was but also said that his rides are limited to the battery range so normally he rides in eco mode. I thought that he'd probably be better off riding a lightweight xc bike which would weigh about half the weight of his bike, and he wouldn't be limited on his riding routes. Just a thought.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:07 pm
 copa
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How is riding an ebike not cycling? Really confused by this

In the same way that riding a motorbike isn't cycling.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:14 pm
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You turn the pedals, the bike moves. That’s cycling.

Ebike or regular bike.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:15 pm
jameso, kelvin, jameso and 1 people reacted
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@copa wow just wow 😳

Black/white thinking going on with you dude.

Collins dictionary:
What do you mean by cycling?
1. the act or sport of riding or traveling by bicycle, motorcycle, etc. 2. Also called: bicycle race, bicycle racing Sport. a race on lightweight bicycles with low handlebars, conducted for specified distances or against time on a dirt or board track or over public roads between cities.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:17 pm
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You turn the pedals, the bike moves. That’s cycling.

Ebike or regular ebike.

Yes, there is a word for that which clarifies the addition of a motor, it's motorcycling.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:17 pm
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Had a chat with a guy on a Kenevo today, he was raving about how great his ebike was but also said that his rides are limited to the battery range so normally he rides in eco mode. I thought that he’d probably be better off riding a lightweight xc bike which would weigh about half the weight of his bike, and he wouldn’t be limited on his riding routes. Just a thought.

My Kenevo (1st gen) will do around 20 miles/2500ft riding mostly in eco. But I prefer riding in eco for just a bit of assistance. Turbo is for really nasty or technical climbs that I'd normally end up walking. Trail mode sometimes gets used inbetween.

I have a spare battery for longer rides (see above). I have eco set at 20%, but for the ride I posted above, set it to 15% and got 29 miles from the first battery

For me an ebike would take away a huge part of what I find enjoyable about riding.

For me, it makes the part I DONT enjoy more enjoyable. Climbs that I can't clean, long drags on the return leg, blowing out of my arse trying to keep up with lads 20 years younger than me.

But the fitness aspect - yes, you can get a workout and I always end up sweaty and sometimes max out my heart rate on an eeb - but it's definitely harder on a normal bike, even out on my own, at my own pace. Works your leg muscles more


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:18 pm
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Goodness, this thread really has deteriorated into some proper nonsense bickering, hasn’t it. <br /><br />It’s now rather pointless, so hopefully it gets closed soon ! 


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:19 pm
 copa
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Black/white thinking going on with you dude.

It is black/white because they're two different things.
A cyclist is somebody who rides a bicycle. A bicycle is powered by a human.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:21 pm
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Goodness, this thread really has deteriorated into some proper nonsense bickering, hasn’t it. It’s now rather pointless, so hopefully it gets closed soon !

Is this your first time on the internet?


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:22 pm
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Yes, there is a word for that which clarifies the addition of a motor, it’s motorcycling.

nope. The law says if you have a throttle, have more than an average output of more than 250w, or assists over 15.5mph, thats motorcycling.

Not got those? Still cycling, and you can do it anywhere non e-bikes are allowed, without any insurance or tax.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:24 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
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I posted above, set it to 15% and got 29 miles from the first battery

Gotcto confess, I thought range had got better than that. I guess it's the up that makes the difference. And the rider weight. Physics init.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:24 pm
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@copa an ebike is powered by a human and assisted by a motor. What's the issue apart from semantics and you being a grump sod for the sake of it🤷🏻
A bike is a bike is a bike


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:24 pm
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I thought that he’d probably be better off riding a lightweight xc bike which would weigh about half the weight of his bike, and he wouldn’t be limited on his riding routes. Just a thought.

Small point...lightweight XC bikes are ****. Not everyone wants to be a dirt roadie.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:25 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
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Gotcto confess, I thought range had got better than that.

It has, mine is 5 years old and has a 500wh battery, compared to most now having a 700wh


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:26 pm
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Small point…lightweight XC bikes are ****. Not everyone wants to be a dirt roadie.

The guy was riding natural trails around Crieff, trails I'd ride on a cx bike, my 120mm xc bike would be ample bike.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:29 pm
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@Bruce Spoken like a true Flandrian!


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:30 pm
 copa
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A bike is a bike is a bike

Because that's obviously not true.
There's a fundamental difference between something powered by a human or powered/assisted by an engine. They are two different things.
The reason I get annoyed when the two are conflated is complex and probably very boring.
And would involve talking about capitalism.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:32 pm
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I’m feeling like weeksy trolled us all then pissed off out for a ride 😀


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:34 pm
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There’s a fundamental difference between something powered by a human or powered/assisted by an engine

Pedant mode

An ebike isn't powered by an engine

/Pedant mode

And would involve talking about capitalism

You are way overthinking this dude. Chill 😂


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:35 pm
jameso and jameso reacted
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Is this your first time on the internet?

err, no, why ?

I have been on stw since about 2008.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:37 pm
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I haven’t ridden my ebike once this year - I’d have sold it if the new ones weren’t so cheap.

I haven’t missed it much.  But every time I go to the woods, where it’s a case of winching up a fire road for 45 minutes to blast down through the trees for a few minutes before repeating (think Golfie and the like), I realise how much more riding I would have fitted in on my ebike.

They absolutely have their place for that kind of riding, no matter how fit you are. Given the kind of riding you do with Jnr, I reckon this might be you too.  Take the Rise.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 8:57 pm
flyingpotatoes, Marko, el_boufador and 3 people reacted
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I would respectfully suggest that anyone that hasn’t used an eeb for proper riding is talking out of their hoop.

100% this ☝️ There's a lot of bias (and uneducated) views on this thread isn't there 😂 some need to get off their high horses. Tbh 12 months ago I may have been one of them.

But i can only speak from my own experience as a new to Ebikes rider this year after 30+ on regular MTBs. i've done almost 500 assisted miles since purchase on my first ebike in March this year, and also around 200 on my regular bike  since then. Being predominantly a weekend rider, I normally do around 300-350 miles a year on the regular bike. So the ebike has enabled a fair bit of additional milage and smiles, in fact more than doubled my mileage as I've only owned it 9months.

I use the ebike along side the regular bike, if I go to a trial center solo I take both - use the regular bike for xc then the ebike when I'm knackered. If I go to windhill or 417, the ebike gets used for twice the amount of loops over the regular bike (uplift or not) 20+laps instead of 10+. Heart rate stays in a lower zone than it would on a regular bike but still gives good fitness gains without the lung busting + I get additional workout on the downs with double the fun. So you can use an ebike to maintain fitness, it's just a different type of workout.

I can now go for rides with other Ebikers and keep up but I also go for rides with non Ebikers on the regular bike with zero loss of fitness. I could have an ebike as my only bike, but it would restrict my rides, as would only having a regular bike and I enjoy both.

I went to FoD today with an ebiker mate got there at 12, did the red xc as quickly as we could then sessioned the dh trails for the rest of the afternoon, had a blast and still came home with achy legs.

An ebike is not the same as a regular MTB, they are both tools, just different types. How you use it is key. I don't care if an Ebiker is 12, 20 or 80 they are out out having fun putting miles in, who cares if the additional miles are assisted?


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 9:03 pm
donncha, CheesybeanZ, singlespeedstu and 5 people reacted
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who cares if the additional miles are assisted

Me, because I have to work harder than them to earn my descents which makes me better.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 9:31 pm
supernova, AdamT, AdamT and 1 people reacted
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There’s some condescending going on from both sides tbh. Ride an eBike, don’t ride an eBike, just don’t tell others what they do or don’t enjoy doing.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 9:33 pm
iainc and iainc reacted
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Me, because I have to work harder than them to earn my descents which makes me better

Why exactly do you have to 'earn' descents?


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 10:01 pm
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So I'm confused. Are eBikes worse than road bikes?


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 10:32 pm
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It's not giving up, but I feel the pressure to give in because I'm Billy No Mates on an analogue bike 😂

Though it's not about eebs, just the latest trend and a bit of FMO. Similar where all your mates moved onto 27.5 and now 29 wheels and I'm a wheel size or two behind, not up to the latest number of cogs on cassettes. Maybe I'm a bit of a luddite with bike tech 😄. Though I was instantly sold on dropper posts.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 10:37 pm
ready and ready reacted
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Why exactly do you have to ‘earn’ descents?

Go without pudding if you're on an e-bike, or pedal up a hill on a regular bike.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 10:38 pm
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If ebiking is giving up, what is using an uplift?!!

Also, if I ride my ebike with the motor on is it a motorbike but if I ride it with the motor off, is it then a bicycle?

At a guess I’d say that 75% of my Levo’s mileage has been with the motor off (a mix of proper downhill (I don’t like having the motor on when descending), above the cut-out speed on flat-ish roads, and group rides with normal MTBers so I don’t need the power to keep up and turning the power on makes it too easy).


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 10:54 pm
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Throwing a 50lb ebike around on a descent means you earn the assist on the climbs


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 10:55 pm
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I’m feeling like weeksy trolled us all then pissed off out for a ride

Well that wasn't my intention but seems that's how it played out.

I then went to the pub to refuel the calories I didn't burn earlier too. Then came back home for more beer.
I was honestly just curious about the perception of others. I'm honestly a fan of ebikes, both before hand and after today. But for me it's a different 'sport' in some ways, like Roadies and CX are, it's a basis on a theme but still different.
I guess for me it's like Trackdays on motorbikes compared to touring, they're the same but massively different too.

I didn't 'work' as hard today as some days on a manual bike, but I still had to get down the tech, the roots, hold speed in the corners and berms etc. I just didn't wipe myself out getting to them.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 10:55 pm
retrorick and retrorick reacted
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A bit like a motor bike then.

You could go much faster up and down so why bother with an ebike?


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 11:38 pm
funkmasterp, Kuco, Kuco and 1 people reacted
 copa
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Also, if I ride my ebike with the motor on is it a motorbike but if I ride it with the motor off, is it then a bicycle?

Yes.


 
Posted : 23/12/2023 11:39 pm
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I'm just grateful for all you current ebikers for doing all the beta testing that the likes of Shimano, Bosch etc etc didn't bother doing before releasing them onto the market for early adopters to work the bugs out. 😉

One day, I'll be too old/too infirm/too lazy/too short of time to be able ride my mountain bike and your sacrifice should mean that by the time I come to buy an ebike, they'll be just as reliable as my current bike for only a slight weight penalty and for only a slight price premium as the inevitable trickle down of tech brings prices down to something bearable.

Also, just checking...I presume all you ebikers who rack up so many extra rides/miles/ascent (however you choose to quantify it) pay back for the additional wear and tear on trails by doing some trail work and/advocacy and/or financially?


 
Posted : 24/12/2023 12:35 am
funkmasterp, Marko, retrorick and 3 people reacted
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1  mtbing is not a sport unless you are racing 

2 ebikes and non ebikes are different pastimes

I have both and use both.  I ride non assisted more.  The noise weight and lack of range on an ebike annoys me


 
Posted : 24/12/2023 12:48 am
funkmasterp, kelvin, funkmasterp and 1 people reacted
 colp
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A bit like a motor bike then.

You could go much faster up and down so why bother with an ebike?<br /><br />

Because you can’t ride a motorbike in many places, but you know that of course and are just trolling.

Also, a moto enduro bike won’t be any faster on technical downhill tracks.


 
Posted : 24/12/2023 12:59 am
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Every time you use turbo a kitten dies


 
Posted : 24/12/2023 1:12 am
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I’m a dog person…


 
Posted : 24/12/2023 1:28 am
kayak23 and kayak23 reacted
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Werewolf is the correct term


 
Posted : 24/12/2023 7:33 am
pisco, thols2, onewheelgood and 3 people reacted
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