[Closed] Is anything proven to help muscles heal quicker?

EPO

Eat potatoes only?
Enthusiastically prostrate oneself?

[img] [/img]

EDIT: neck it as soon as you've finished working hard

Extra Pie Order

(i'm guessing you already use a recovery drink straight after the ride and do a gentle spin or two during the week to free your legs up a bit?)

Oxygen Tent

Eat Pies Only, silly

I find necking a pint of water with 3 tablespoons of glucose powedr does the trick. Was only about a pound for a box from the pharmacy

Protein.

ask Lance Armstrong, he's got great doctors that know all about this

Protein and avoid alcohol as it interferes with your body processing it.

If you are really sick (in the head), an ice bath helps them recover but it takes some comitment.

I have to use EPO for medical reasons and must admit when I started on it the difference it made to my riding was huge for me, I went from being well at the back to keeping up with people and not collapsing on climbs. However, using it unprescribed can have very serious side effects (thickening of the blood for one).

Also try rubbing Tiger balm into your legs pre and post ride see if that helps.

If you've not recovered after a week you are doing something wrong:

Carbs straight after, stretch, hydrate, recovery spin the day after, eat properly, don't booze too much & don't overtax yourself physically or at work.

If you are jumping to a much higher level though it may just take a while to get used to it.

Whey protein shake.

Carbs straight after, stretch, hydrate, recovery spin the day after, eat properly, don't booze too much & don't overtax yourself physically or at work.

say WHAT ?? Unless you're intending to become an athlete just do and eat normal stuff FFS!

don't overtax yourself physically

diddums :o) sheesh! What, and buy a walking stick ?

I use whey protein powder mixed with anything up to 500ml orange juice. Mix it up straight after the ride and drink within the magic 20 minute window after finishing the ride. Helps lots.

However, if, as you say, your legs are not 100% right a week later, it sounds like you're pushing yourself too much on these rides.

So, definitely help yourself by drinking protein, laying off the booze, stretching and going for steady - i.e. really steady where grannies may overtake you - recovery rides.

within the magic 20 minute window after finishing the ride

some of us have stopped believing in magic and fairies...

I have to use EPO for medical reasons and must admit when I started on it the difference it made to my riding was huge for me, I went from being well at the back to keeping up with people and not collapsing on climbs. However, using it unprescribed can have very serious side effects (thickening of the blood for one).

Only this morning I was thinking about the apparent benefits of caffeine on exercise. Given that I don't drink tea or coffee, I decided that trying caffeine tablets might do the trick.

And then I realised that way doping lies. So, it's convenient you posted - got any spare EPO for sale..? 😉

barnes - you're a c*ck.

But you amuse me, so carry on.

🙂

SFB in "not having a clue" shocker!

All those make a huge difference when incorporating high level training with a normal life. Where did I say not to "eat nrmal stuff"?

Do try harder.

protein and a mix of carbs imediately afterwards

easy spin home (or 20 min at the end of the ride)

several more easy spins during the week (30-60min is ideal recovery time)

no alcohol for 48-72 hours after strenuous excerise (untill legs stop feeling sore).

HGH, If you can get it that is!

Compression shorts/tights improve circulation and reduce recovery times.

Lots of sleep

And alternate the shower between freezing cold and boiling hot on the aiming at affected muscles, hot or cold therapy alone were proved ineffective (particularly hot baths, they were purely psycological) but alternating the two for 20-30 seconds each (or longer if you can stand it) was proved to help.

cynic-al - Member

If you've not recovered after a week you are doing something wrong:

Carbs straight after, stretch, hydrate, recovery spin the day after, eat properly, don't booze too much & don't overtax yourself physically or at work.

If you are jumping to a much higher level though it may just take a while to get used to it.

this is sensible advice from Al.

Many folk swear by protein after exercise and this "magi window" Or recovery drinks. Myself I am very dubious about the benefits for the weekend warrier

Magic window is well proven and works for me but will only matter if you've depleted your glycogen. I've read that you can have any carbs at all at this time - preferably simple. I don't know about the protein angle.

Cool, all good stuff. I must admit, it's not just one ride a week. I do a group ride and then at least one other excercise e.g. another solo ride or circuit training. Interesting about the alcohol, given that I am partial to the odd beverage.

turneround - cheers for that, could you give me Lance's number please?

Many folk swear by protein after exercise and this "magi window" Or recovery drinks. Myself I am very dubious about the benefits for the weekend warrier

I ride daily (commuting) and train specifically 3 or 4 days a week. I train hard when I do, and so find that protein makes a big difference to how much my legs ache the next day. I have no reason to doubt the efficacy of the 20 minute window, so come back through the door and, as I gather myself, mix up and drink the protein.

ourmaninthenorth:

I use whey protein powder mixed with anything up to 500ml orange juice. Mix it up straight after the ride and drink within the magic 20 minute window after finishing the ride. Helps lots.

No carbs?

Be younger, about 18 ideally.

SFB in "not having a clue" shocker!

All those make a huge difference when incorporating high level training with a normal life

well I'm sorry but all that advice above looks like total hogwash to me :O) Eating certain things at certain times or wearing granny tights ? Didn't you forget to mention dancing naked round the maypole while sprinkling oneself with the urine of virgins and keeping a rabbit's foot under your pillow ?

'knowledge' of superstition doesn't amount to a hill of beans (which you might eat to more useful effect 🙂

I've read that you can have any carbs at all at this time - preferably simple.

you do realise that all carbs have to be broken down into glucose before they're absorbed ?

This all sounds exactly like witchcraft. If it works it's because having a definite plan feels more positive than none. We're all highly suggestible, and it's part of perception to look for categorisable patterns, to the extent that we often see them when there are none (like seeing faces in the clouds)

'knowledge' of superstition doesn't amount to a hill of beans - which you might as well eat to better effect 🙂

And alternate the shower between freezing cold and boiling hot on the aiming at affected muscles

it just gets better doesn't it ? "Now what can we get them to do ?" :o)

SFB,tried any of the above suggestions? or just too busy standing on your soapbox? 😉

Simon - there is actual double blind studies on some of this stuff. real proper science There is no doubt it works in people under severe physical stress such as TDF or extreme endurance athletes.

My doubts are about its value in the weekend warrier.

If you want to pour scorn on it it would be useful if you actually had a clue what you are talking about.

S T R E T C H especially after your ride 😀

SFB,tried any of the above suggestions?

I prefer a strict nachos & dandelion and burdock diet :o)

As for "trying", I've already pointed out that experimenting on yourself is unlikely to reveal anything objective. And in any case I have no pains after a ride unless I crash!

S T R E T C H especially after your ride

wasn't stretching found to be harmful ?

wasn't stretching found to be harmful ?

Stay well clear of peanuts and whack off a lot. Failing that, just ride more and don't get too ratted the night before a ride, ie- make sure you are properly hydrated.

Athletes are human too. What works for them should also be of some benefit to the average guy.

I tend to only use recovery drinks if I've been racing. For normal riding/training etc it's just a normal healthy diet, not too much alcohol and get enough rest.

I used to have regular sports massage too, only have it about 4-5 times a years now but it definitely helps. That and stretching.

No carbs?

Pure orange juice contains 56.7g CHO per 500mls so quite a lot of carbohydrate there then

I'm with SimonBarnes on this, how funny is this thread.

And for the record I often go for a beer with my mates after a ride

If you want to pour scorn on it it would be useful if you actually had a clue what you are talking about.

I think you'll find that's not necessary :o)

I am willing to concede that at the limit of human performance there may be slight benefit to some specific foods and timings, but for ordinary biking it's completely unnecessary.

turneround - Member

ask Lance Armstrong, he's got great doctors that know all about this

as a point of interest, are you and singletrack aware that writing this sort of thing leaves you both exposed to libel lawsuits?

If group rides are leaving you bollixed for a week, you're not 'fairly fit'...

Training is all about adaptation; you need to train to be able to adapt to the faster pace, and all the recovery methods outlined and maligned above wont help if you're not going out and training yourself in the first place.

If the fastest you ever ride is with the group, you'll always suffer, so get out on your own and make it hurt, then rest, then do it again.

Sounds like you're not doing enough, so the weekly shock is flattening you; do more, do it harder.

Specificity is the key in bike training.

simonfbarnes - Member

SFB in "not having a clue" shocker!

All those make a huge difference when incorporating high level training with a normal life

I was referring to the advice I gave, none of which is outwith a "normal & healthy" lifestyle IMO.

you do realise that all carbs have to be broken down into glucose before they're absorbed ?

DUH - that's why I said "preferably simple". It works for me!

And no doubt many can & do go for beers after rides (there's carbs in beer btw DUH!) but there's a world of difference between an evening ride with mates once or twice a week and several hard training sessions a week.

SFB your trolling is nomally better than this. When even TJ lambasts you, you know you're not on top of your game 😉

Sports science has developed massively, even in the last 10-15 years. Its now understood that diet and timing of food intake can provide radical improvements in performance rather than just 'training jolly hard'. In some sports science circles, the mantra is '25% training, 75% nutrition'

If SFB wishes to persist in belligerence for belligerences sake, I suggest you all let him.

You do realise he's just looking for an argument don't you?

The rest of us can have a more informed discussion thats on topic.

Ice baths I don't believe in personally.

I found that taking in simple carbs and protein inside of the 'magic window' as some have called it very effective.

Its well understood these days that immediately after hard exercise your body will look to repair itself with the most readily available materials - that is, areas of your body that haven't been stressed or damaged, unless you provide it with an alternative source i.e. a nice pint of milk, or whey protein with OJ etc...

This maximisies recovery potential because your system isn't 'robbing Peter to pay Paul'.

The other thing that makes a huge difference to me is adequate sleep - but I've always liked my sleep.

>ask Lance Armstrong, he's got great doctors that know all about this

as a point of interest, are you and singletrack aware that writing this sort of thing leaves you both exposed to libel lawsuits?

If he's not using great doctors then he's a fool I say.

If he's not using great doctors then he's a fool I say.

well that is true, of course!

Yikes, opened up a can of worms. FWIW I think my original question was a valid one.

P.S crikey - thanks for your rigorous assessment on my fitness levels 🙄

I have always been massively sceptical of the claims for diet. After previous arguments on here I have read up as much of the research as I can find online.

It is clear that valid and rigorous studies have been done to show that high intakes of protein can help for people under[b] extreme physical stress.[/b]

I could find nothing that suggests it can help the "weekend warrior"

Much of the claims made on nutritional supplements sites are spurious and many of the products are expensive snake oil. Recovery drinks that are mainly whey powder at highly inflated prices for example and the 4:1 carbs to protein ratio that is based on limited studies with malnourished elderly.

[i]My conclusions[/i] ( and give that the validity you think appropriate) based on a basic understanding of physiology and from reading some of the studies remains

1) for racers and others who really push their bodies then following the advice about recovery drinks and so on [i] might[/i] be of some use but careful reading of ingredients and of the research would enable you to do this by using easily available and cheap stuff - no need for the expensive "sports products"

2) for the bulk of us who ride once or twice a week for a couple of hours at a time there is little point in expensive supplements so long as you watch your hydration, electrolyte intake and diet

3) nutritional supplements companies peddle expensive snake oil with inflated claims to the gullible

Its a minefield to pick thru for sure.

SFB your trolling is nomally better than this

FYI it's not trolling as I believe what I say

If SFB wishes to persist in belligerence for belligerences sake, I suggest you all let him.

belligerence ? I call it forthrightness. I haven't offered to hit anyone.

The rest of us can have a more informed discussion thats on topic.

Ice baths I don't believe in personally.

interesting juxtaposition of science & belief 🙂
And my comments are on topic even if I'm completely wrong

Its well understood these days that immediately after hard exercise your body will look to repair itself with the most readily available materials

from what I've read, protein digestion takes place in the small intestine, so it'll be quite some while before the protein (as amino acids) gets there and into the bloodstream, and since repair will begin as soon as damage occurs doesn't that mean you should take the protein [b]before[/b] the exercise ?

Yikes, opened up a can of worms.

that's the outcome every time you discuss on here whether or not pretty much anything is or can be "proven"!

votchy:

No carbs?

Pure orange juice contains 56.7g CHO per 500mls so quite a lot of carbohydrate there then

Ahh i see, for some reason i read orange juice as orange squash.

TJ, I would agree wholeheartedly, although I would include in group 1 those who don't necessarily race or ride at a high level but ride "hard enough" and have demanding lifestyles for other reasons - work, family, demands of internet-lord-dom (latter - see SFB).

Smaller units put into digestion initially can significantly reduce gut transit time. This is the principle that glycemic index describes for the range of simple sugars/carbs. The simplest of sugars i.e gluscose can be in the blood stream in less than 20 minutes

Its the same with proteins and there's some research/hypotheses to suggest that in a metabolic sense, simple proteins can 'piggyback' onto the more readily adsorbed sugars and get into the blood stream quicker than if they were imbibed alone.

I don't accept that these sorts of simple measures are of no use to the weekend warrior - whatever that is.

Drinking a pint of milk at the end of the ride when you're back at the car is hardly a difficult thing to do, even if all it does is reduce your post exercise muscle ache severity or duration (which I find it does).

Since its so easy to do, any of you doubters could easily give it a go and see if it works for you.

If you do the kind of riding that doesn't leave you with muscle ache the day after, I don't think its going to help you very much at all, but for those you do choose to push themselves more, its got to be worth a try?

I take it you are eating enough when you are on the bike? I noticed my my recovery was quicker when I was using high five 4:1, compared with just cereal bars/bananas on a ride. If I don't eat enough on a ride, I'm usually pretty rubbish the next day. I also noticed my recovery was quicker if I'd eaten / drank well (lots) the day before a tough ride.

I use the SiS recovery drink and stretch as soon as I'm in, and then lunch/tea, depending on the time of day. Sports massage helps as well. I've tried the whey protein shakes as well (mainly after weights), but not so convinced about them.

It is worth keeping a diary and logging how you feel/what you are eating etc etc so you can spot any trends. It is worth experimenting with different foods/recovery methods to see what suits you - I've tried the ice bath stuff and it doesn't work for me (its not nice either!)

You don't say how much proper rest you get in between sessions and if this is "proper" rest - I had/have regular rest days, but what is a rest day for me, is considered by some people I know to still be very active.

My wife was constantly feeling burnt out last year, we had upped the speed of rides, time out etc. As a result we bought Anita Bean's 'Food for Fitness' and followed the menus in it. This involved eating a certain amount a certain time before a ride, something in the 'magic window' after a ride etc.

The difference it made to my wife was incredible, much more energy, shorter recovery etc. Now I will point out she is vegetarian, so I'll not deny that it may have had more to do with balancing her diet. We both believed we ate well before and the diet didn't change what we ate, but the quantities of certain things and definately when we ate them.

It doesn't advocate expensive sports drinks, instead it shows you how to make them etc. Best cook book I've ever read.

Benefits for someone exercising once or twice a week? I'm not sure. For anyone exercising three or more? Definately in this house.

but for ordinary biking it's completely unnecessary.

I wouldn't know, as I'm not in either category - given I'm a racer more than a MTBer, every ride is a training ride. I certainly find proper diet and recovery helps real performance for me (though I do still drink beer, and have been known to drink beer the night before races I've won).

I suppose it depends whether your ordinary riding involves going fast and trying to keep up with those going faster, or going slowly enough that you can ride behind women to admire their bottoms, and stopping regularly to take lots of photos.

actually I find I can do both :o)
I have a highly improper diet but am obscenely healthy!

Science officer -......... even if all it does is reduce your post exercise muscle ache severity or duration (which I find it does).

You should know if you live up to your name that that is neither rigorous nor valid 🙂

Its the same with proteins and there's some research/hypotheses to suggest that in a metabolic sense, simple proteins can 'piggyback' onto the more readily adsorbed sugars and get into the blood stream quicker than if they were imbibed alone.

can we see some evidence for this curious hypothesis ?

I have a highly improper diet but am obscenely healthy!

In that case SFB I think you are one lucky son of a...

simon - the mix of carbs / protein to speed up absorption does have a basis in fact - from real rigorous and valid studies. Its applicability to MTBing is less clear

This stuff is splattered all over the internet.

I read this stuff in a sports nutrition book and started experimenting with nutrition on-and off a few years ago.

Do a search on 'Optimum Glycogen synthesis' or similar you'll be able to answer your own questions rather than have the potential for me to spoon feed you information that you can then accuse of having bias.

simonfbarnes - Member

can we see some evidence for this curious hypothesis ?

Can we see any evidence against it from you? Why not contribute something, positive or negative, rather than continual questions?

Oh no, of course you're not a troll.

Can we see any evidence against it from you?

I have none, it's just that carbs and proteins are digested in different ways, so it sounded odd to me that one would affect the other

Why not contribute something, positive or negative

didn't I do that when I said ignore all this nutritional nonsense and eat normal food ?

simonfbarnes - Member

didn't I do that when I said ignore all this nutritional nonsense and eat normal food ?

Well you did although you didn't appreciate that that's what several people were already saying....but since then you're just doing the usual SFB thing *yawns*

He's a one trick pony really, when you think about it.
😉

although you didn't appreciate that that's what several people were already saying

what leads you to think that ? I just wasn't arguing with people who agree with me . Yet.

Is there anyone you wouldn't talk to, as long as they talked back?

as long as they talked back?

would say a can of regular coke straight after a ride be a suitable recovery drink? I had one on Sunday after a 2hr ride and felt surprisingly pukka for the rest of the day.

I had one on Sunday after a 2hr ride and felt surprisingly pukka for the rest of the day.

coincidence

acim - coke is a surprisingly good rehydration.

And for the record I often go for a beer with my mates after a ride [i]

I read not so long ago that drinking beer was the best way of rehydrating after exercise and in a separate article that a bowl of cereal with milk was the perfect meal to 'do everything'following strenous exercise.

Not sure about all the science, but personally I listen to my bodily (stomach!)cravings as nature tends to know what works!

in a separate article that a bowl of cereal with milk was the perfect meal to 'do everything'following strenous exercise.

Not perfect, but for once the over-sugared nature of breakfast cereal may have some benefits. The milk contains protein - casein.

A more effective method would be a faster absorbed protein (say, whey) and some better sugars, and none of the other gash that goes into cereal.

Actually, why do grown adults insist on eating kids food for breakfast? I just don't undertsand it.

Personally when out riding I know I need to stretch - I can feel it, in fact most of the time I can't ignore it (usually at the top of the first long climb)and when I do it re-energises me totally. I usually forget to stretch afterward though what with changing and sorting bikes (before you know it is is half an hour later and we are sat in the pub or cafe), which flippin annoys me because that after-ride stretch helps recvery so much more!!

I eat quite alot during rides so am not usually hungry immediately afterwards.........Guinness usually does the trick!