[Closed] Is a single chainring the way forward for general trail riding?

depends on the hills where you live.

Depends how fit you are. For me- granny gear is essential 22/36 bash FTW.

Spin away from 2.5 mph to 25 mph. that'll do me

Wot TJ says.

For many 1 x 10 will look awesome and be cool, but the IT middle managers & keyboard warriors will need a granny gear to puff up the trail centres, presuming they ride out of the car parks.

Real riders will still be on single speeds.

Triple for me still thanks (3x9), although tempted to go 2x10 soonish once may drivetrain wears out.

Suits the flatish terrain that surrounds me. still don't like the idea of losing the big ring though, I like to pedal down as well as up.

What's the biggest range cassette you can get now? 11-36? If you want to ride everything without compromise, I don't think it offers you quite enough range.

Real riders will still be on single speeds. ❓
Gears rule (specially the granny on steep climbs) From a IT keyboard warrior riding real trails darn sarf

I find 1x10 with a 36T cassette to be a wonderful thing, but it's not for everyone. Most will still need the versatility of a triple.

I have 1x9 on both of my bikes with 33T or 34T ring and an 11T-32T cassette. Lakes, Stanes (mostly GT and Inners) and local trails - don't miss either of the other rings.

That said, it doesn't matter one bit what the fashion is or what "everyone else" is riding. Try a 2x9 or 1x9 set-up (try just not using the big ring and/or granny for a while) and see how you get on.

I've been running 1x9 for 3 years now, mostly 11-34x32 though did 11-34x34 for a bit. It's fine for the peaks, got me up most of snowdon (bar the steepest bits) and everything In between and that's always been on 32-38lb bikes too.

Just gone 1x10 11-36x33 and it's just another click really. Its always suited me down to the ground.

"Real riders will still be on single speeds"
Wow, i didn't know that, i'll have to let my daughters (7&9yrs) know. 🙄

I have 2x9 on my FS and have not missed the big ring. It's tempting to try 1x9 as I reckon I could manage most of the climbs. But not all climbs and definitely not when I'm already tired. And a shock lockout would probably be desired too, to make honking feel effective.

I ran 36x 11-36(ish I think)for a couple of years on my heckler. Was good until a big hill came up. Moving to the lakes pritty much sent me back to 2x9, then night rides round here got me back to 3x9 just to keep up on the tarmac sections.

Back to the original question 1x9 is fine you might need to carry more magic links though

What I am not sure I get is why people running 1x9 or even now 1x10, use anything other than a 32t front ring. Seriously can't imagine anyone being under geared on 11t back 32t front unless they're on a road or fire road.

Best set up is a single front and rear 🙂

I'm just building up a 1x9 rigid but there's no way I could ride what I do with a single ring, I'd have to gear it too low at the front. Fitness and route choice as ever, I'm sure some people could do the exact same riding that way or even singlespeed but not a chance for me.

well im 1x9 soon to be 1x10 on a 29er. seeing as ive a normal 3 ring crankset i have choice. 1x for local and drop a small ring on for long days out in the big hills, even got the big ring if needed.

I'm gonna try 1x10 next season for racing, probably a 34 with 11-36, I reckon that'll be low enough. We shall see!

1x7 enough gears and flexibility & shit don't wear out. End

7 speed shit do wear out yo, and you can't get decent bits, and the ratios is whack, 10 speed is the shiz. Innit.

Northwind - you rode up puke hill at a fair old speed a couple of weeks ago. Not able to do that in the middle ring?

Myself I use 22 chainring with gears 1 to 6 on hills, 36 middle ring with all nine elsewhere. I use the granny gear like a low ratio box. Change down early and have loads of gears left. I do like to sit and spin my way up hills tho. Getting a bit out of puff -change down another gear!

I could climb more of the hills in a higher gear but I just don't like the low cadence.

My knees would explode without being out to spin.

11-32-32 here 8 speed. can climb anything with it.

TandemJeremy - Member

"Northwind - you rode up puke hill at a fair old speed a couple of weeks ago. Not able to do that in the middle ring?"

I was probably spinning semi-fast in a low gear. I can do steep climbs in the middle for a while but over distance- main climb on glentress black frinstance, or your average scottish mountain, or every single bloody "undulatition" while in France- I blow up, I need the lower gears to keep a sustainable rhythm. I'll hopefully have the rigid built up soon so I'll see how I get on with that on the wednesday rides. Badly I suspect!

Oh dear - come and live in Devon - Double set-up at the very least I would say is vital!!

Three_Fish - how do you find 1x9 at the place we cant talk about 😉

im thinking of going down to 11-32 with a 32T front but HP sauce climb may be my only tricky bit.

Given what I can ride up on the singlespeed I'd have thought 1x9 was pretty sensible.

Oh dear - come and live in Devon - Double set-up at the very least I would say is vital!!

I've been running a 2x9 (11-32 cassette, 22/36 chainrings)for ages now, don't miss the big ring one bit, can still do my bit at the front on the road back from the pub. Still considering a 1x10 setup though. I'll be interested to see how recent developments work out, going down as far as 10t or 9t on the cassette could really be the solution.

im thinking of going down to 11-32 with a 32T front but HP sauce climb may be my only tricky bit.

The rooty path climb up to HP Sauce or actually riding up HP Sauce (great climb!)? No bother on the rooty path, but on HP I have to push up what would be the last rocky section just before the log drop at the end - everything else is rideable. I think I was on the SX Trail when we rode the rooty path in the summer, so it was a 33T front ring. I definitely used the 32T on the cassette, but it wasn't too much effort. A little competition from Matt probably got me up quicker than I'd usually do it!

There is one technical climb, about 10m long, on the way up to the cairn from the end of the valley, that I just can't do on any bike. I find myself wondering if I could do it on a granny ring, but I'm happy to just persevere. There's a climbable line up it, I'm sure, and even if it means mixing some trials-type maneuvers in I'll bloody well get it one day...

R.lepecha - Member

11-32-32 here 8 speed. can climb anything with it.

Yeah right.

Anyone know if a the new 10spd 36t XT cassette will work with an older style 9spd rear mech ? Running a 34t 9spd at the moment & there's not much clearance when the chain is on the 34t cog.

Yeah right.

some people can do just fine up anything on anything TJ.

Indeed. I've seen sharki breeze up stuff in 32:16 that I'm huffing and puffing up in the granny.

NO!

Often when you are in the granny ring you would be quicker getting of and pushing, it's just stubborness that keeps you going. One of the good things about the ss is that when I do have to get off, it's nice and light to push up.

PeteG55 - Member
going down as far as 10t or 9t on the cassette could really be the solution.

that'll be that new Hope cassette/hub thing then.

[i]Anything[/i] tho?

If you're a fit bugger then 1x10 would be great. Some of my mates have big heavy bikes with 1x9 and they do fine. I've got a 36/22 set up up front and that's pretty much ideal for a fat old slow bloke like me.

I'd be happy pushing a 1x10 (say 34, 11-36) for an hour or 2 but if it was 3-6 hour ride I'd really be wanting my granny!

I'll stick with what I've got thanks.

I have a 3x9 on my P7 but I very very rarely use the big ring and only occasionally use the granny (unless its really steep and can be bothered to spin up it rahter than push). I am tempted (now my rear cassette has worn) to change to 1x10. Its a bit of an outlay but I think it might be a wise move.

I've found that since riding a singlespeed road bike in a hard gear for "training" I can get up most hills in 1x9 now. This is yet to be tested somewhere with huge climbs, just stuff like Cannock and local roads (used to struggle up them in the granny ring), but I'm off to the Long Mynd next weekend, gonna try and stay in the 32t ring. I almost made it in 1x9 last time, just wasnt fit enough then. Tbh for trail centres like Cannock I think using the granny ring just makes more of a meal out of climbs as you can get up a lot quicker and easier in the normal ring.

The only annoying thing with 1x9 is that you need to get a decent chain guide if you ride anything remotely bumpy.

Whyo

One of the good things about the ss is that when I do have to get off, it's nice and light to push up.

My rigid SS weighs 23.5lbs so is only slightly lighter than my lightest full-suss and heavier than my lightest HT.

My SS is nothing fancy but I suspect it's probably fairly typical weight wise - slot dropout Inbred with RC31's - unless you're really into SS and have spent a bit of cash.

When I started riding off road, my bike had a 48/38/28 - 14-28t combination. Giving me a lowest ratio of 1:1. Granted, I mainly ride in the pancake-flat Sarf, but I find that a 32-32/34t combination gives me that same 1:1 or very slightly lower, which is fine. The only time I've used a granny ring in recent years was on the Great Orme in North Wales a few weeks ago, climbing a very steep section that quite frankly is easier to push up. I only did it to prove I could. Plus I had an audience egging me on! I din't use it the entire rest of the time I was there. Din't need it. Nowt steep enough to require it. My granny ring is 9 years old and shows hardly any wear. I've worn out 3 sets of outer and middle in the same time.

With a granny ring, it's only the last three sprockets that give you lower gears than the middle ring any way. And quite frankly, as I said, it's often just easier to get off and push up rather than slog up in silly low gears. For very short steep sections, use your momentum to get you up, or just MTFU and put some effort into it FFS you wimps! 😀

The granny ring is to give less experienced/weaker riders/feeble people like TJ the option to be able to continue pedalling.

My ss is a lot lighter than my 456. Probably with the singlespeed I get off before i'm totally ****ed but if you are spinning in the granny ring and have to get off it's because you are totally ****ed. I do use my granny ring on the 456 but I'd get by without it.

You'd need to convince me. I'm happy with 3X9. With 2X10 I'd loose a light alloy ring and possibly gain a heavier cassette?
With 1X9 or 10 I'd loose the weight of two rings and a front mech.
Then there's the range I'd loose. For XC racing, middle and outer and three out back. For that killer climb at the end of a five hour ride I'd want the granny. And for things like HONC and other off road sportives the whole lot.
Singlespeeds another thing altogether, but why just have 9/10 gears when you could have 27 what's the gain to be had in having less?

I don't know what the fuss is about using a granny ring. It's a very useful thing to have in many situations. It's also assumed to be only used by unfit riders or for tackling the steepest of climbs.
Personally I find it of most use on the most slippery climbs and not necessarily the steepest. I'm thinking of a wet grass covered clay hill, where you need to sit to get weight down and any attempt to power up would result in wheel spin. The same applies to snow and ice covered hills.
Though to me walking a hill is not an option 8)

I think a light, 3 speed hub gear would be the ultimate set up. 1 gear for silly steep climbs, 1 gear for blasting along roads and the middle gear for everything else.

...but why just have 9/10 gears when you could have 27?

To start with, you don't have 27; you only have around 17-20 usable gears.

A 1x9 has all 9 gears usable and a 2x9 will give you around 14. A 1x9 or 2x9 obviously limits the amount of gears you have available, but it doesn't necessarily limit the trails you can ride - you just ride them differently. Your fitness will change and your technique will change and you'll find that things you would have once used the granny ring for you will now do on what used to be your middle, for example. If you like riding with the adaptation of technique then 1x9 or 2x9 is good; if you don't like it or you can't adapt then revert to 3x9. Nobody can argue with you into understanding or liking it, you just have to try it.

Personally I find it of most use on the most slippery climbs and not necessarily the steepest. I'm thinking of a wet grass covered clay hill, where you need to sit to get weight down and any attempt to power up would result in wheel spin. The same applies to snow and ice covered hills.

See, I find that a granny ring just makes me spin out in such situations. I end up using a higher gear to avoid this.

Though to me walking a hill is not an option

Pfft. Ok then, you sit there spinning away like a mad 'un, while I overtake you pushing my bike. 🙂

I think a light, 3 speed hub gear would be the ultimate set up. 1 gear for silly steep climbs, 1 gear for blasting along roads and the middle gear for everything else.

Same here, want to get something like that for my road bike eventually, although it might be hard finding one that's 120mm spaced or whatever track dropouts are!

11-36 sram XX 10speed
11-34, 9 speed
11-30, 8 speed
11-28, 7 speed

so: granny is usually on a 9 speed rig is 22 front & 34 rear is 17.1 gear inches
singlespeeders on 34:16 are on 56.1 Gear inches

with a
10 speed on 32 front your lowest ratio is 23.5 gear inches
9 speed on 32 front your lowest ratio is 24.9 gear inches
8 speed on 32 front your lowest ratio is 28.2 gear inches
7 speed on 32 front your lowest ratio is 30.2 gear inches

to put that in context:
if you can ride your trails with dropping below small ring and half way down the cassette (22:24) your gear ratio is 24.2 inches

in summary if you take 10speed with a 36t front ring = 26.4inches
you might as well stay with your existing 32t front 9 speed 24.9 inches, give away a little on the top of the ring and save yourself £100's in upgrading shifters, chains & other odds & sods

no?

It's whatever works for you innit?
am happy with 2x9. my commuter is 1x8.
think about chainline though.
I think that the biggest influencing factor in bike configuration
is where you use the beast to do the bulk of your riding.
horses for courses.

Same here, want to get something like that for my road bike eventually, although it might be hard finding one that's 120mm spaced or whatever track dropouts are!

So what you're after is what they raced on seventy years ago? Three speed hubs with a lever on your 'North road bars' like modern niché offerings.

Don't get me wrong I'd try 2x10, but frankly it's a expensive thing to try as I tend to keep one bike and replace the bits as and when. I couldn't justify flogging a perfectly good XTR set up really.
But the crucial thing is, at no point ever do I feel when riding that I am missing something. The 27 gears I have seem to cover everything regardless of what is deemed by others not riding my bike as useable.

Edit;Forgot to mention I usually run an Ultegra 12-25. The shift across gears in 34t is sooo smooth, and the 25/granny combo will get anyone up anything Wales, Peaks or Chilterns has to offer.

More than content with my 3x9. it does what i want. I suspect I spend more time in the big ring than most on this site judging what people are saying anyway. may change the lot when it wears out, then again maybe not...

But the crucial thing is, at no point ever do I feel when riding that I am missing something.

This is what most people who ride 1x9 would say, too.

This is what most people who ride 1x9 would say, too.

Three_Fish - Member
...but why just have 9/10 gears when you could have 27?
To start with, you don't have 27; you only have around 17-20 usable gears.
A 1x9 has all 9 gears usable and a 2x9 will give you around 14.
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

How do you only end up with 14 useable gears from a 2x9 setup? Don't most double setups run a bigger middle ring to cut down on overlap?

Me, I'd miss my big ring - can't stand all this spinning.

+1 oldgit, I've looked at going 2x10 too, but quite frankly I've better things to spend the cash on than throwing a perfectly good XTR groupset away - and the spread of gears with 2x10 are less, so I'll either be under or over geared compared to a 3x10 combo with a 34 out back.

A few people are getting overly evangelical here methinks 😉

I can see the attraction of 1x9/10, but it all depends on what and where you ride. My regular loop has a few sections that go from being a bit dull to quite challanging just by putting a bit of effort in and cranking into them on 44x12.

well cy @cotic sent me this ramble, he should have just posted on here.

With the advent of 10spd drivetrains, there's been a lot made by the media and the manufacturers about the best way forward, and your options for tailoring your drivetrain to suit your exact needs are wider than ever before. However, with all this choice seems to have come some already pretty entrenched views and my-drivetrain-preference-is-better-than-yours pack/clique type behaviour. When the name-calling starts, I find my natural tendency is to look at all sides of the arguement, so here's some of my thoughts.
The main crux of a lot of the arguing seems to revolve around a seems-like-singlespeed-zealots-the-first-time-around macho posturing regarding an obsession with ditching 1 or 2 of the front chainrings now we have these massively wide ratio rear cassettes.

"1 x 10 is the only way forward! You can use a chain device! Why would you use a lower gear when you can walk?!!"

"Why have Shimano persisted with 3 chainrings? Surely 2 x 10 is the way forward?!! Similar spread, less duplication, why would you use a lower gear when you can walk?!!"

From the macho overtones, a lot of these arguements seem to dismiss the need for a tiny low gear on a mountain bike, as if you're some kind of wuss for liking spinning up hills, and you're in some way not hardcore enough (as if that matters) if you're not NEEDING a bashguard/chain device, or yet further that you're some kind of moron for having lot's of duplication of gears in your drivetrain.

I'll admit to something of a vested interest here as I'm a long time triple chainring user. It seems somewhat unfashionable these days, but I've never run into trouble with wrecking outer chainrings, so a bashring hasn't really been necessary. When I've used double/bash set ups before I've either found them noisy and unreliable (32t largest chainring, constantly bouncing out of gear on the 11 or 12t sprockets at the back, noisy chain slapping on the chainstay despite being very tight for the setup), or I've not at all got on with the big jump between front ratios (on a 22/38 where I found it very hard to deal with the big gap when dropping from 38 to 22). So, I've always come back to a triple, usually 22/32/42. It suits my spinny pedalling style, and I HATE pushing my bike up anything, I like the challenge of a techy climb, and sometimes (whisper it) I'm so tired from a long ride I can't push a gear any bigger than that, so 22/34 is lovely thanks.

At the other end, as soon as the trail points downwards, I like running in the big ring/middle of the cassette which keeps the chain nice and tight and quiet and out of the way of the frame. I prefer this. On my hardtail I can push an even bigger gear really slowly to help calm the bike down over rocky sections (it's one of the keys to going quick on a hardtail in my experience), and on a full sus you get much less pedal kickback effects in the big ring so your suspension actually works better. It's a minor thing, but doing what I do, I like knowing that.

In between I like small jumps between chainrings which make managing gears on climbs easier, and whilst lots of gears means lots of duplication, it also means much closer ratios by-and-large, and I like that too.

However, I'm not trying to win you over to my way of thinking at all. Most of the guys I ride with use double/bash. Yet another group I know have a lot of singlespeeders. My point is that I don't go around pointing and sneering at them for their drivetrain choices, and neither should anyone else sneer at mine. That paragraph above simply illustrates that I choose to run triple front and a tiny low gear because I've tried some other options and didn't like them, so triple is my preference. It's not right or wrong, good or evil, it's just my choice because I feel it's right for me. So, personally I'm over the moon that the advent of 10spd hasn't heralded the death knell of triple chainrings, from the Shimano side at least, and actually their new closer ratio front set up would even more closely suit my riding style. Which is nice (for me!). By the same token, I couldn't be happier if you think a SRAM 2x10 set up or a 1x10 with a chain device is a dream come true for your style of riding. That's your preference, and having the choice is great, isn't it?
So, by all means give 2 x 10 a shot. Hell, ditch the lot and go 1 x 10, see if I care! If you don't like it, put some more chainrings back on. Just don't go around slagging other people off for not using your new Way Forward. They're probably quite happy with the set up they have, could have even put some thought into why they like it. We're talking about ways to have fun on a bicycle in the dirt here. We're not curing cancer. So if you do see me on that steep climb twiddling away in my tiny bottom gear whilst you're pushing up on your chain device'd 1x10, I'm having a lovely time thanks, just like you.

Cheers,

Cy
www.cotic.co.uk
07970 853531
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Can't be bothered reading all that. Got a synopsis?

choice is a good thing, do what you like, its terrain specific, now im going to fight my corner regarding my choice. true stw pedigree.

How do you only end up with 14 useable gears from a 2x9 setup? Don't most double setups run a bigger middle ring to cut down on overlap?

I was referring to many 2x9 set-ups which are achieved simply by removing the big ring from a 3-ring chainset; but the limitations are on the granny ring and cross-chaining to smaller sprockets on the cassette. I don't know if 2-speed chainsets have the gears moved outboard to improve the chainline. I suspect that they don't, though.

Another thing; I have found since getting a KS I900R adjustable post with remote, I hardly use the granny ring, I have found that I can run my seat higher for climbing efficiency than I ever could with a fixed seatpost, as I can now adjust the position down an inch or so for singletrack or slam it for downhills.

So in reality, I find myself using the seatpost remote INSTEAD of the front shifter, and its amazing what you can climb in the middle ring with your seat at the optimal pedaling height 😉

I'd definitely go for 1x10 if I was speccing a new bike - would suit me nicely. It's not that big of a deal to start changing the drivetrain right away though.

Not hung out with granny for years, at least in the UK. She has her place - really long and sustained climbs (ie 1 hr +) where you need to drop down and get into a rhythm - so few of those here though. You'll get a gear ratio of 1 with a 1x9 or 10, which is pretty low - you can spin up things nae bother on that if that's your style, it's not like you're mashing.
Also good to have the granny if you're doing a really long ride and hit a rough patch. It's a good bail out gear if you've got nothing left, just spin the legs really easy until you feel a bit better.

I'd be interested in demo'ing it.
Garry to be fair, though we don't have big mountains we do have steep climbs even if they're only 100' long. Surely every one has an 'impossible hill' local to them?
I only know of five people to do ours, take away the granny and I wouldn't know any.
We'll see how it evolves I think. When I think about the huge numbers of riders walking hills that most 'lets say very keen' riders would ride, I couldn't ever see it being offered as the norm.

My 2x9, 11-34 22/36 bash I have 15 yueasble gears - 6 on the granny ring and 9 on the 36. I can get to all 9 on the granny but it is ridiculous and there is some overlaps.

Removing the overlaps yo have 12 gears 0- the 9 on the 36 and the bottom 3 on the granny as 3-6 on the granny are obverlaps with 1-3 on the middle.

I do use the 15 gears however.

I Shift down to the granny ring on steepish climbs early and use 6 gears in granny - its closer ratio that way. 6 nice close ratio low [b]mountain[/b] climbing gears.

Why anyone who goes up significant hills wants to mash up at a low cadence in a high gear is beyond me. If you live in an area with no long steep hills then the granny ring might well be redundant - but I climb hills of a thousand+ feet at steep gradients. Some climbs can take a couple of hours of grinding along. its not mashing a high gear for a few minutes

What I'd like is the aforementioned 3 speed sturmey archer with 6 bolt disc mount

Garry to be fair, though we don't have big mountains we do have steep climbs even if they're only 100' long. Surely every one has an 'impossible hill' local to them?
I only know of five people to do ours, take away the granny and I wouldn't know any.

One or two exceptions probably - I ordered a granny 😉 from CRC a while back with the intention of fitting it for this one particular climb where I reckon it might make a difference. Not got round to it - maybe I'll be converted back to the triple if it works out.

Why anyone who goes up significant hills wants to mash up at a low cadence in a high gear is beyond me

For me it makes it feel like more of a workout than sitting there spinning. And being fat, I need all the workout I can get!

Steven - righteo - next pentlands ride you make it to we will find a speshully extra hilly route for you only

i got a 38/26 double set up with a 11=34 cassette and its great for trail riding and xc done the london to brighton off road with it today. find i usually have enough to pedal up an down with this set up.

rode my ss all winter up to the middle of July, only rode my geared bike once and that was up at Loch Muick and even then it was more about longer forks and bigger tyres. Done plenty of hilly rides on Wed evenings on the singlespeed, don't think anybody had to wait on me. Also did the ride up at Pitlochry and don't think anybody had to wait on me that day either. Rob seems to have been doing quite well on the hilly routes recently anyway, don't think you need me along to make them any hillier. If I have to walk a climb on a wed night chances are I won't be the only one and won't be the slowest either.

steve - only teasing.

Thing is how did we manage before full suss, or long travel forks, or hydraulic disc brakes etc, we just did and still had fun. Same thing with gears. if you only had nine or ten you'd still manage up most of what you do now. And mostly with a smile on your face. Just get out and ride.

Kinda gone off the point here, the OP was asking about a 1x9 on 5/6" travel bike not what if any gear people 'needed' to go up hill.
For general trail riding on a 5/6" travel bike, which is what you asked about 3x9 or 2x10 surely has to be better than 1x9. I've never ridden anything as big as 5 or 6" travel, but I would imagine that to get the best out of such a bike it would necessitate a good range of gears? Wether it be a granny ring to dance it up a boulder strewn climb or a big ring to hoon it home down the hillside on.
What you can do on a singlespeed is a whole other story, but you're preaching to the belivers on this site.

Thing is how did we manage before full suss, or long travel forks, or hydraulic disc brakes etc, we just did and still had fun. Same thing with gears. if you only had nine or ten you'd still manage up most of what you do now. And mostly with a smile on your face. Just get out and ride.

Depends on what is meant by general trail riding, to me, for what I consider general trail riding then 1x9 would be fine. Did get a bit sidetracked by ssing but my point was that for me I'll happily ride pretty much anything on a ss so wouldn't have a problem with 1x9. But each to their own, which is one of the reasons I love mtbing.

This is just the next fashion thing, like bashguards. [u]The Are Not Needed If You Can Ride A Bike Properly[/u]