I've been riding my Intense Carbine since January and love it.
One thing that I've noticed though is that I'm getting a lot more pedal strikes than on the Zesty it replaced.
I have a feeling that the bike is blowing through the shock's midstroke as I pedal (it's a 2012 Fox RP23 with Kashima) which may be making the problem worse.
Is there anything I can do to reduce this?
PUSH the shock, different shock, accept the carbine has a low BB?
Learn not to pedal at times when you're likely to get pedal strikes? Shorter cranks?
Get the shock tuned.
Woody,
That would be great but on technical rocky climbs you don't have much choice but to keep pedalling...
What size can is on the shox?
If its over size you can replace it was a smaller slimmer one. This helped me on an old Orange 5 i was having the same problem with. It helps the shox sit up more and it will not use the firts part of the travel so easy. You can also pack it with a thicker grease
Use (more) pro-pedal and/or add air. How much sag are you running?
you do have to time your pedal strokes but the RP23 in my experience does have issues with people of greater stature.. If like me you a significant personal gravitaional effect, then try adding some strips of plastic into the air chamber to reduce its volume and up the compression ratio.
coil
Think I'll have to get it PUSHed and see what that does.
Schweiz. It's a 2012 shock, so the Pro Pedal "on" position is fully on and not adjustable.
toys19, I'm still perfecting the technique of "bitch cranking" but it seems to be happening more than on the Zesty. Also, I have bit of a beer storage compartment but I'm still only 76kg 😉
Failing that, I'll just have to get a Cane Creek...
The air can tuning shims are what you need, very cheap way to sort out this problem
As above, try The Fox Volume spacers from Mojo. Supposed to make a difference
If it's an RP23 then there are 3 levels of propedal. If there's only on/off then its an RP2.
Rugbydik - If it helps you save money at all, I bought my new Tracer2 with a Cane Creek Double Barrel, it's amazing... that is all 😀
No pressure... but you should buy one.
Schweiz.
It's definitely an RP23.
Fox changed the Pro Pedal settings for 2012.
2012 onwards; Pro Pedal is either "on" (as in fully on, no adjustment) or "off" (with the choice of compression damping from 0-3).
Pre-2012 models were as you describe.
GSuperstar, You're not helping!! 😀
Sorry to hijack. [b]GSuperstar[/b] – how is the DB so good? The RP23 on my Tracer2 is pretty good so far.
bluebird - I've never been a massive fan of RP23s, I always thought I liked them until I started using coil shocks.
I always presumed the coil would be hell on uphills as no pro pedal as such, but I found that it tracked loose rocks that well that for my style of riding it actually benefitted me on the ups.
Obviously each to their own and that, but if you ever get the chance to use one I would really urge you to, the weight difference isn't life threatening and I really think a coil transfers most bikes, especially ones aimed at aggressive all mountain like the Tracer2.
Feel free to email me on my profile addy if you have any other doubts 🙂
TomO
what is the difference in BB height between the old bike and new?
I've had a couple of pedal strikes on my Carbine but all due to rider error.
I experienced the problem more on my Uzzi when I got it first (but was warned about it before I bought the bike) I pretty quickly got used to it. The first time it happened on the Carbine it was a bit of a surprise but not enough to cause any grief. I quite like the BB height and how it sits in the travel for trail riding, makes it really solid so I don't mind the occasional pedal strike on the way up.
Also, on the stock RP23 with the Carbine you can dial in some pro-pedal on the open position. Open (flicked to the left) has the choice of 0, 1 or 2 pro-pedal settings. Closed (flicked to the right) is Pro-pedal setting 3. I run mine full open on everything except paved road climbs.
BTW I'm not a huge RP23 fan but I do find he 2012 is an improvement on the 2008 I was running previously. Would love to try a Monarch on the Carbine but don't want to fork out for a new shock just to try it.
I had a Tracer VP (what the carbine's based on) and these were known to blow through their travel when using a RP23. Whatever you do with the shock still won't make it perfect. Although reducing the air volume helps a bit.
If you really want the best performance while still using an air shock, buy a Manitou ISX-6. I've seen some very good deals on these in the past, with prices quite a bit under £200. There is plenty of info about setting them up over on MTBR.
I'm starting to err towards a Cane Creek. I should be able to sell the nearly new RP23 for enough to offset the pain of purchasing a CCDB.
Think I'll get TF Tuned on the phone and see what they say, though.
What are you using your bike for? As a long travel trail bike or proper all mountain with big jumps and drops too? Have you gone for carbon for the bling factor or for light-weight? If your using it as a light-weight trail bike do you want to be adding a shock that weighs more than a pound? Out of interest what fork are you using? If your using Lyriks/36's go for the DB, if your using 32's or Rockshox equivalent, I'd think twice.
Give Nathan a call at Bad Ass bikes. He has a carbine with a CCDB (and possibly the blingiest bike I've ever seen)
DAMN IT! WE NEED PICS OF THIS SO CALLED CARBINE!
NAWWWWW!
8)
I find my T2 sits into travel even just sitting on it with loads of psi in the can but then that's the nature of the VPP.
I'll wait till I have actually ridden it like it deserves to be until fitting a volume spacer.
CCDB air looks gopping, expensive and is totally overkill on a Carbine as it's a more DH orientated shock.
Just tune your RP23 and enjoi.
OMG INTENSE BIKE WALLOWS / BLOWS THROUGH MID TRAVEL SHOCKER
To be honest I had my 5.5 RP23 Pushed and it was fine. My Tracer I didn't enjoy though, the RP23 was rubbish (symptoms as above) and the replacemeant Vanilla was too "DH" for my requirement of comfortable singletrack riding.
Thats why I ended up with an ASR-5. 😀
still happy with my Zesty 🙂 I like to power over thorough the rough stuff like you. Is the BB that much lower or is it an aspect of VPP design?
Stick to your Yeti threads then.
Shim the air can
onceinalifetime - Member
Stick to your Yeti threads then.
No need to be bitter. I've been through this for a year and this:
[i]
I had a Tracer VP (what the carbine's based on) and these were known to blow through their travel when using a RP23. Whatever you do with the shock still won't make it perfect. Although reducing the air volume helps a bit.[/i]
Is essentially correct. I didn't like the result. My yeti purchase was a result of 8 weeks of bike testing everything possible to avoid the mistake again - in my case my mistake was assuming that the Tracer rode the same as my 5.5.
My advice to the OP is to talk to TfT about what they can do to firm up the mid stroke, or pump up the shock a bit and sacrifice some travel (which should reappear on big hits).
I'm up in Aberdeen, so my regular trails are anything from Glentress to mini-DH to all day epics in the Highlands.
All-cross-enduro-mountain DH-Lite is probably the best way to describe it...
I've got it built up with Stans Flow rims and Fox 36 160mm forks, if that helps.
What about a DB Air as a kind of halfway house?
Here she is having a shower:
[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7237/7110329965_58eba372ac.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/61406482@N02/7110329965/ ]IMAG0145[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/61406482@N02/ ]rbannist[/url]
I guess the 160mm props it up a little solving the pedal strike?
Looks lovely that RD.
There's mate of mine with a Tracer w/lyriks also who rides similar trails/style to you and he loves it, the general consensus the two of us cam up with was that design is better on the more bouncy stuff which you are riding on - I'll try to get him to put in an appearance and comment on his shock setup....
Evenin'
As kryton says I love my Tracer and usually ride big rocks.
I have no specific advice other than that it being similar to the Tracer it will take a lot I experimentation with sag etc!
The Tracer's ( and most VPP Intense's) are infamous for being fiddly to set up; just a tiny bit of extra pressure in the shock can make a big difference.
Tinker extensively before buying a new shock and also ask the guys on the MTBR Intense forum!
Should of put a 😛
omG, thank the lord you got it in the best colour of the 2. 8)
But white brakes brings it down as for the distant photo.
WE WANT CLOSE UPS! 😀
Sorry about the photo quality.The raw looks even better in the flesh!
The brakes have red pot covers to match the stem (and the red pins on the DMR Vaults that I've just switched to), but they will be changing to Hopes when funds allow.
Sounds like I may be spending some money with TF Tuned before I get any brakes though...
I really would recommend talking to Intense before TFtuned. The shocks provided with the bikes are tuned to suit them and I've heard of people spannering things up further getting a shock tuned to weight and style but not the individual characteristics of the frame; leverage ratios, rising rates and all that..
my 5.5 absolutely hammered pedals and was awful to ride, you just couldn't relax on a pedally bend.
rp2 was a firm tune, but has now been pushed and although it bottoms easier, there's far more support in the middle.
i also got 170 crankarms and point one podiums, 11mm thick as opposed to 20-odd mm with the mg-1's that were on it.
it's quality now, but there's a magic spot at about 35% sag. the podiums sometimes skim the ground, but their design doesn't catch like others
May also be worth looking at the pedals your running, I switched to vaults for a while and found I hit things alot with them. They are pretty wide, I found them to wide and switched to nukeproof protons and now hit things less often.
Shock wise, can't help but think a CCDB would be a bit on the heavy side to put on a lightweight bike like a Carbine - not doubting the ccdB but to me it seems to defeat the point of a carbine a little...
Try the fox shim, a little more air and run it open.
Not had any complaints on the carbines we have sold up to now so I would try more setting up before a new shock.
T
My tracer did the same thing. As they say it is quite common if you are over a certain weight, although I am not sure what that weight is. Either get the shims or get a decent coil shock. I fitted a coil shock, problem solved.
My tracer did the same thing. As they say it is quite common if you are over a certain weight, although I am not sure what that weight is. Either get the shims or get a decent coil shock. I fitted a coil shock, problem solved.
I think the word "decent" here is important. As Dans160 may remember I fitted a Vanilla R on mine to try to cure the issue. It didnt work for me becuase I lost small bump sensitivity (even with a ti coil). I believe thats why the CCDB is so highly recommended on the intense threads, becuase of its almost infinite adjustablity.
Unless you have the availble cash and are happy with coil, I'd still go for the Push first, because as mentioned it made my 5.5 into a fine bike - and is cheaper.
If I'd followed my own advice I'd possibly still be riding my Tracer :-/
RD - have a ride of my tracer 2 with my CCDB and see what you think. it has very similar suspension characteristics to the carbine and you will be able to feel the way the shock will work with your bike.
Or just buy a ccbd, you know you will in the long run so just get on with it!
I think the word "decent" here is important. As Dans160 may remember I fitted a Vanilla R on mine to try to cure the issue. It didnt work for me becuase I lost small bump sensitivity (even with a ti coil). I believe thats why the CCDB is so highly recommended on the intense threads, becuase of its almost infinite adjustablity.
I have a Van RC on my 5 spot, it's perfect. In fact its transformed the bike. Perhaps try a different weight spring next time?
The weight doesn't really bother me. I'm just looking for the best ride possible.
I think my plan of action is to play with air pressures, etc. and if I'm still not happy, look to upgrade to a CCDB coil or air.
Marion/Dave, we'll swap bikes next time we're out. But I have got a hardtail to buy first...
Looking at the economics though:
A PUSH tune is going to cost me £140.
Or, a CCDB will cost £450 but I could get £250-£300 back for the "nearly new" RP23, so that option would end up costing me in the region of £200.
PUSH is the magic fix of all rider induced malfunctions.
failing that CCDB is the next step.
you should really question your bike setup, before spending the cash.
Be carefull going for the CCDB Air option. Different frames have different rates of progressiveness as do shocks. A missmatch can lead to a horrible feeling bike. Do a lot of research first. I should have done this with my M9 that has a CCDB Coil which is quite a linear shock. This was causing the ride to be quite harsh on the M9 on landings other than a nice transition. Speed humps were best avoided altogether.
So, off I went and bought a Bos Stoy at huge expsense. This solved most of the issues but calming the rebound down enough so that I wasn't getting thrown forwards on jumps proved to cause other issues.
On the M9 you can actually change the progressive rate of the frame by mounting the front of the shock in a different position. I wish I had tried this first. I re-fitted the CCDB and after plenty of chat with someone who knows more about this stuff than me I made a few adjustments and now I have a shock that works very well with my frame.
The Bos is WAY easier to set up and ultimately the bike felt bloody quick with it on. I may refit it using the same mounting as I am for the CCDB as a comparison. But at the moment it is up for sale.
The point being, not all shocks are equal, they all work differently so take your time! For what it is worth I fitted a Stoy to my Tracer and it was brilliant. It's now on my Intense SS1 which I don't think I will ever sell.
Dan
dan160
the saying ATGNI comes to mind
bit harsh greeble
If I had a clue what ATGN meant, I would agree. 😛
bit harsh greeble
harsh? no.. its the truth. The amount of people who feel a CCDB, BOS or a push tune is a magic fix to their inability to understand the concept of bike or shock setup is staggering.
All
The
Gear
No
Idea
wrecker - MemberI have a Van RC on my 5 spot, it's perfect. In fact its transformed the bike. Perhaps try a different weight spring next time?
For a start we are talking about a completely different suspension system, so your comment is invalid.
Secondly, I tried the correct spring, AND the next one down just in case.
As I mentioned, the bike may have been fine in many peoples eyes - [b]I[/b] just didnt get on with it and it wasn't the same as my 5.5
Greeble, help me understand " the concept of bike or shock setup" please.
The parameters that I'm able to change, AFAIK, are rider weight (fairly constant), shock air pressure, low speed compression damping and rebound damping.
Now, if the sag is set according to the manufacturer's recommendations then the air pressure should be about right? There is a range of recommended sag which I am going to play with.
I have tried the full range of compression damping settings from fully on to full open,with little impact on the problem I originally described.
Rebound damping will have little to no effect on the problem I originally described, unless I'm mistaken.
What else can I do beside the above, retuning the shock or replacing it?
Greeble
The stoy was bought for the m9 as it worked so well on my other bikes. If you read what I wrote I'm recommending theat the op take his time and research before outlaying any cash and should at least try the shims in his rp23 first. If he has set the sag correctly then there is little else he can do. Reading through this and other forums you will find other intense owners who have experienced the same thing including me.
Are you a suspension engineer, do you much experience of setting up intenses with various different shocks?
Right now I just think you are an arse with a big bag of chips on your shoulder...
You maybe right in your massive assumption about me but I do own a very, very nice m9 and ss1.
Dan
blows through mid travel usually means you don't have enough air in the shock and your rebound set waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to slow