[Closed] I'm not a troll but...the bloke on an E-bike at degla today....

I'm not a troll but....

Yet you managed to stay pretty squeaky clean in all this..

That will be the day when all bikes are no longer tolerated on footpaths IMO.

[img] [/img]

Sounds like I had a similar experience to the op at the weekend, I was on the inside of a right hand corner, very close to the verge on a double track fire road (wider than 3 mile climb) a chap barked 'on your right', confused I though he must've meant the other 'right' where there was a good 12 feet of space to pass, but no, he was going for the foot of space between me and the verge. He flew/barged past me, at maybe 3 times my speed, almost taking us both out (we'd both unclipped)

For the same reason as the OP I suggest we ban top level XC riders at places were there are lots of other riders. Such as singletrack7, where the above happened, and coincidentally, the winners average speed, over 92 miles and 9000 feet of climbing, was only a little less than the top assisted speed of a legal ebike.

Thats ok then. Because e bike motors assist the rider. They dont solely power the bike.

I've ridden one and the term "Assist" is a massive understatement, more like gives you ten times more power than your putting in when going uphill. I was only putting in a very light effort and the bike was flying up this steep hill and would have got KOM's if it wasn't for all the other e-bikers already filling the top 10 on strava.

When you can open the throttle to power up loose stuff and power through bogs, ripping up trails: That will be the day when all bikes are no longer tolerated on footpaths IMO.

They're like that already.
I went to a demo day and was riding an E Bike with a group of other E Bikers and they really rip up soft ground especially the ones with fat tyres.

However e-bikes are not so popular at the moment due to the expensive costs both the purchase and the maintenance are far higher. Which is probably why there hasn't been many complaints.

But if they do get popular in the future I wonder if there will be a much greater intolerance towards bikes on trails in future which could lead to ALL bikes being banned (not just the E Bikes ?)

i didnt think any bikes are allowed on countryside footpaths? if they arent, and you are riding on them, then surely pre ebikes have already started the problem ? or are we saying its ok for non ebikers to break the law.
thinking things through isnt a bike going up hill at 16 mph max, not as much risk as someone going down at 20 mph + including gravity and inertia, most ebike haters only discuss the problem of uphill speed, usually because the ebikes are faster than them, but forget conveniently to mention non e bikers speed downhill.on every ride ive ever been on, even though we think we are careful, i dont ever remember anyoneslowing down round a bend on a trail just in case someone is coming the other way, probably more reckless than doing the same up hill imho

motor....tick
bike......tick

So they are motorbikes.

Excellent replacement for petrol burning cars and bikes but shouldn't be on trails except in exceptional circumstances.

i dont ever remember anyone slowing down round a bend on a trail just in case someone is coming the other way

Speak for yourself, buddy. I don't ride like an a$$ho!e on public tracks.

Speak for yourself, buddy. I don't ride like an a$$ho!e on public tracks.

But ALL e bikers do, right?

I've not invested the time required to digest the whole thread (sorry), but surely the e-bike aspect is completely irrelevant. The issue is that expecting people to jump out of your way just because you're shouting or dinging a bell is the work of a top-flight doglobber. It's no different to honking the horn in your car when you approach someone on a bike and expecting them to dive into the verge.

Speak for yourself, buddy. I don't ride like an a$$ho!e on public tracks.

But ALL e bikers do, right?

Do they? I've no idea, I never encounter them on the kind of riding I do.

Bez - Member
[b]It's no different to honking the horn in your car when you approach someone on a bike and expecting them to dive into the verge.[/b]

It took a while but there we go - e-bikes are basically cars - this thread is comedy gold 😆

It took a while but there we go - e-bikes are basically cars - this thread is comedy gold

He didn't say e bikes are basically cars, he said the behaviour is the same as someone in a car honking a horn when approaching a cyclist and expecting them to get out of the way.

"i dont ever remember anyone slowing down round a bend on a trail just in case someone is coming the other way"

Speak for yourself, buddy. I don't ride like an a$$ho!e on public tracks

ive been riding the same trails for the last 5 years, and i think ive only ONCE seen any other riders, and NEVER any pedestrians.
buddy, i NEVER said they were public tracks either.
and for what its worth i dont think ever been at the front, even with my ebike or mega.

its more or less impossible to ride every inch of a trail,keep it flowing,
carrying speed and not take a few calculated chances. imho

which is why, imho familiar trails or trail centres are best, or wide open areas that you can see for a distance are good. but not always practical to reach

It took a while but there we go - e-bikes are basically cars - this thread is comedy gold

Did you actually read what I wrote (you know, about the vehicle being completely irrelevant to what's being discussed here) or did you just see the words "e-bike" and "car" and invent some other words around them?

if anyone is quicker than you, im guessing you would Want to get out of the way, id hate to hold anyone up, and id hate to be held up. so its all about understanding the protocol and pass in an agreed way, id like to see this protocol, is there one?
if not its possibly just two peoples different ideas of how to be polite and not a nob head. i never pass anyone so its not an issue, unless they have stalled. i had a guy up my arse at bpw and was pushing me quicker and quicker which i liked, there wasnt a passing position so i kept going but it was a bit too quick and i made a mistake on the last berm and did my rotator cuff.

Passing protocol?

Real life - ask politely to come past at a good place for the rider in front. Or back off and wait for a fireroad/wide bit/gap. Thank the rider once past.

Race - at a good opportunity (arguably another topic 😉 ) shout "on yer left/right" and get on with it. Thank the rider once past.

I've ridden one and the term "Assist" is a massive understatement, more like gives you [b]ten times more power than your putting in when going uphill[/b]

No commercially available ebike does that, unless it's been modified.

motor....tick
bike......tick

So they are motorbikes.

Nope. The law says they are pedal cycles.

So they are pedal cycles.

It's amazing how people keep repeating the same incorrect nonsense.
And doing it in a really cocky way too 🙄

Dunning Kruger Effect ..... tick!

Sounds like someones pride was hurt by a faster rider.

So they are pedal cycles.

[quote=Bez ]I've not invested the time required to digest the whole thread (sorry), but surely the e-bike aspect is completely irrelevant. The issue is that expecting people to jump out of your way just because you're shouting or dinging a bell is the work of a top-flight doglobber. It's no different to honking the horn in your car when you approach someone on a bike and expecting them to dive into the verge.

Indeed - exactly the point I was trying to make by posting that video earlier - the details of the vehicles involved are irrelevant (another similar example would be somebody sitting on your bumper flashing their lights).

Metasequoia - Member
He didn't say e bikes are basically cars, he said the behaviour is the same as someone in a car honking a horn when approaching a cyclist and expecting them to get out of the way.

Wouldn't expect to see many cars on trails - even at trailcentres - but ok, usually people allow for a degree of humour on here, bad as it may be... it's someone faster on a bike overtaking you, despite the protestations of many, motor or not. In his analogy, he's kept the bike being overtaken, but replaced the e-bike with a car - what am I missing here? Why not say it's like a car honking it's horn at another car?

Bez - Member
Did you actually read what I wrote (you know, about the vehicle being completely irrelevant to what's being discussed here) or did you just see the words "e-bike" and "car" and invent some other words around them?

Yes, but the vehicle is completely relevant to the thread, it's up there in the title... I mean, if the vehicle in question is completely irrelevant as you say, you could have at least made it slightly obvious by saying something like "it's the same as Ayrton Senna driving right up the arse of Shergar & calling him a donger through a circus megaphone" or something.

Bez -
I've not invested the time required to digest the whole thread

If you had there was a good point mentioned on the previous page - would the OP have been annoyed & started a ranty thread if he'd been overtaken at 18mph on a climb by someone who was benefiting from freakishly good genetics & a serious training regime instead of a motor? Nope.

Hope that helps 😀

Does it have a motor? Yes or no.

My road bike has 2 motors, one for the front mech, another for the rear.

If you turn the pedals on it, it goes forward. Just like every legal ebike, fat bike, road bike, tandem, mountain bike etc ad infinitum

Does it have a motor? Yes or no.

Is it a motorbike? Yes or No.

what am I missing here? Why not say it's like a car honking it's horn at another car?

Because, given that the vehicle is immaterial, if I were to list every possible analogous scenario it'd be fairly tedious to read, so I just picked one. Car-on-car, fine, doesn't matter: some people behave like this on foot and I'm not equating cars with shoes either.

What I *think* you're missing is this:

Not only is it not about a vehicle, but it's also not about simply being overtaken, which is why the point about being overtaken by someone fitter isn't really relevant either.

It's about some people being self-important dicks and expecting others to jump out of their way on demand because they think they're entitled to never be held up.

Thing is ebikes can bring conflict because they bring a huge differential in speed.

For most practical cases, the difference in speed between riders on pedal bikes is generally pretty small. A really fit person might average say 10mph up a climb, and an average rider say just 6mph. But ebikes mean you can power up climbs at a huge speed differential, and this brings conflict.

It would be the same if you say were mincing down a black run on an 80mm XC race hardtail, and someone came flying down behind you on a full-on 200mm DH bike.

Differential speed = conflict

Absolutely true. But it's not new with e-bikes, this has happened for decades with [the minority of self-important dicks on] normal bikes and people on foot. E-bikes just mean that the previous top predator now finds itself in the food chain.

Love all the arguing about semantics, sometimes you can't just glue two words together and make a thing. Some wheelchairs have batteries, this doesn't make them electric chairs.

That will be the day when all bikes are no longer tolerated on footpaths IMO.

Bez
Because, given that the vehicle is immaterial, if I were to list every possible analogous scenario it'd be fairly tedious to read, so I just picked one. Car-on-car, fine, doesn't matter: some people behave like this on foot and I'm not equating cars with shoes either.

Don't start me on shoes 😆

I know what you meant, was just being slightly obtuse - can't resist, especially on an e-bike thread, with a 4 month old child in the house this is as close a chance as I get to intervening in a stupid pub argument with the sole purpose of making it worse 😉

Toasty
Love all the arguing about semantics, sometimes you can't just glue two words together and make a thing. Some wheelchairs have batteries, this doesn't make them electric chairs.

Aye it does.

The OP's "I'm not a troll but…" gambit has a lot to answer for 😉

[quote=nealglover ]Nope. The law says they are pedal cycles.
So they are pedal cycles.
It's amazing how people keep repeating the same incorrect nonsense.
And doing it in a really cocky way too
Dunning Kruger Effect ..... tick!

An interesting philosophical point. You could legally define a duck to be a dog, but it would still be a duck.

Not sure why the poster who made this comment got so much stick about it.

Nor me. It was just about the only interesting comment in this thread.

Getting "other trail users" to think of mountain bikes as being more like walking, and less like engineless motorbikes, is key to acceptance of our use of trails that are legally speaking no go.

Nope. The law says they are pedal cycles.

The law says that they should, in the main part, be treated the same as pedal cycles.
I personally see this as a good and necessary thing to promote their use.
The flip side though of course is pedal cycles are legally considered much the same as e-bikes.
Remember, in 99% of cases in England, pedal cycles are treated the same as horses off road.
Legally classified together does not mean what some people take it to mean.

Pop question… how old do you need to be to ride a pedal cycle on roads or public trails in the UK? How old do you need to be to do the same on an e-bike?

[quote=tomhoward ]If you turn the pedals on it, it goes forward. Just like every legal ebike, fat bike, road bike, tandem, mountain bike etc ad infinitum

How about if you don't turn the pedals and it still goes forwards (when not going down a hill - clarification for the pedantic)? Does that make it a motorbike?

Race - at a good opportunity (arguably another topic ) shout "on yer left/right" and get on with it

though to be fair, people tend to be a bit more discreet about the electric motors in their bikes when they're racing.

Does that make it a motorbike?

If it has a throttle then legally yes AIUI. to be a legal ebike the motor must only assist, not provide the sole power source so can only work when the cranks are turning.

Except we've already done that one, and twist to go is legal for all e-bikes sold before January 2016 and also for those sold after that if they've gone through type approval.

.......and also for those sold after that if they've gone through type approval.

And those ones, are no longer legally classed as pedal cycles.

A quick google suggests the type approval is for the 45kph speed pedalecs allowed in Europe, rather than the 25kph ones here, and they are, legally, mopeds. (Compulsory helmet, though the is some descretion on what type of helmet must be worn)

maxtorque - Member
and this brings conflict.

ebikes have their place
for the injured / infirm and in some cases older....
the problem is lazy fluffy bunnies...

stay away from the cakes...

Nope. The law says they are pedal cycles.

So they are pedal cycles.

It's amazing how people keep repeating the same incorrect nonsense.
And doing it in a really cocky way too

Dunning Kruger Effect ..... tick!

Nope. The law says they are pedal cycles.
So they are pedal cycles

The law only really matters if it is enforced(either via self enforcement or via the police physically enforcing it)/ or you get caught.

ebikes have their place
for the injured / infirm and in some cases older....
the problem is lazy fluffy bunnies...

stay away from the cakes...

As I said on another thread.
I walk 30-35 miles a week.
Go to the gym 3 times a week.
Ride a non e-bike at least twice a week.

And will be riding an ebike (or driving) for the rest of the time.

How does that fit in with your narrow minded view ?

The law only really matters if it is enforced(either via self enforcement or via the police physically enforcing it)/ or you get caught.

It's a legal classification.

Still fairly irrelevant if you don't get caught.