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...they're now making everyone take out a personal insurance policy with their selected insurer. No insurance, no race!
It's almost as though they want no competitors!
http://www.ukgravityenduro.com/entries-2015-ukge-personal-insurance-2/
I take it this is because BC have pulled out?
I suppose it makes sense for a season, maybe not so much for individual races
they're now making everyone take out a personal insurance policy with their selected insurer. No insurance, no race!
No they're not.
Bob, you need insurance but not with them... It is just a badly worded advert and pitch in one...
"you must provide us with the name of your insurance provider and the policy number at the time you enter."
apparently its helen gaskells insurance co?
Following BC's decision something like this was inevitable.
I don't read it has having to have a policy with their selected insurer though - it says 'preferred', and then says when entering you'll have to provide the name of your insurance provider, which implies you have a choice?
Edit - too slow!
I've asked them if there will be any minimum requirements for alternative providers.
the company we have chosen as our preferred supplier is Bespoke Financial Ltd contact them now using the form below and they will call you with a quote.”
but then read
As you must provide us with the name of your insurance provider and the policy number at the time you enter. - See more at: http://www.ukgravityenduro.com/entries-2015-ukge-personal-insurance-2/#sthash.RoIJfDD5.dpuf
any will do, they just have their preferred..
so will other enduro events ask you to take out insurance too?
Scott?
No, they are making you get some insurance, that might be a pain (but I think understandable in what isn't a risk free sport). Get it with you you like as long as you tell them, at least, that's what they have said on that link you posted...
Edit, boy I type slowly 🙂
No they're not.
It reads that way.
Steve Parr said. “We now have a chance to shape the discipline in the UK, an opportunity I’m pretty sure none of us will see ever again. UKGE has introduced mandatory “full face” helmets on stages and the next step is every rider must have personal insurance.? This is not a decision we have taken without great thought for you the racers, [b]the company we have chosen as our preferred supplier is Bespoke Financial Ltd contact them now using the form below and they will call you with a quote.[/b]”
The question is whether or not Bespoke are in insurer or broker. Looks like they're a broker. Either way it's a load of crap.
http://www.bespokefinancialnewcastle.co.uk/
No mention of what happens if you already have insurance in place. is someone at UKGE going to go through every policy a competitor has and make sure it meets their standards?
they are making you get some insurance
Insurance for what exactly?
3rd party liability?
Personal accident?
Life?
AD&D?
TI?
Professional sports?
Insurance for what exactly?
My thoughts exactly. Vague insurance is vague.
This was mentioned in an interview on Pinkbike recently http://www.pinkbike.com/news/steve-parr-interview.html
PB: Can you expand on what you said about riders having to take their own insurance?UKGE: We are currently talking with numerous insurance companies about personal insurance. What a lot of people don't realise is that they think they are insured with BC, but its only Public Liability which is 3rd party, the riders will get nothing if they are involved in an accident. Its only a third party that will receive money, not many people actually realise that. Until you get a race license then you have a bit more insurance. But what we are talking about is that if you actually want to come and race one of our UK Gravity Enduro events next year you will have to take out personal insurance. We will provide a contact and a price, which should be very competitive
PB: So insurance to cover personal injury, damage to your equipment?
UKGE: Yeah Public liability, loss of earnings and whatever they need to get back right, we're currently looking into that.
the megavalanche make you take out insurance for the race too, i suppose its not that different
Classic UKGE deleting comments they don't like on their facebook page.
They're now saying a "gold" BC licence will cover you, which seems bizarre as BC are saying they will no longer insure Enduro and they've told all their commissaires not to marshall any enduro events (as BC representatives)
Farcical.
The post BC era is looking a bit messy... I'm a little puzzled still as to why they pulled out given how popular Enduro seems to be becoming, unless it was exactly that and they didn't like the insurance implications.
Totally off top of head, but is this likely more to do with a requirement of the event insurers UKGE have ended up with in lieu of BC rather than something UKGE particularly wanted to do?
Doesn't "preferred" also mean "gives us the biggest cut"?
Just got off the phone to BC they say you're not covered with gold membership as it is no longer a BC event. However if you go abroad and it is sanctioned by their governing body you are covered. So you can compete in Ireland and be covered but not here.
So that's as clear as mud then? Wonder if my mtb Oz covers me if I come back...
Fk it, race the PMBA series where full facers and insurance isn't compulsory.
If one race series can manage without all that stuff, why can't UKGE?
Doesn't "preferred" also mean "gives us the biggest cut"?
Yes, but it means just that. They prefer you to use that supplier, but you're free to use another one, if you know what you're getting cover for!
PB: So insurance to cover personal injury, damage to your equipment?UKGE: Yeah Public liability, loss of earnings and whatever they need to get back right, we're currently looking into that.
But public liability is what you do have through BC, bit weird making people have mandatory insurance for if they break themselves or trash kit.
Whats wrong with a disclaimer
An inconvenience too far
I'm out
Yes, but it means just that. They prefer you to use that supplier, but you're free to use another one, if you know what you're getting cover for!
And this be the problem, you need to know what the insurance needs to cover, which ones the event will accept etc. If they don't check then just tick yes on the entry form and run off if you hit anyone.
Insurance for what exactly?3rd party liability?
Personal accident?
Life?
AD&D?
TI?
Professional sports?
They don't actually appear to have clarified this. Which is brilliant.
The standard response is "speak to our preferred insurer blah blah blah".
Beginning to thing f*ck it, for the few UKGE races I can actually do this year.
It's the impression I have got talking to a few mates when I've been back.
The post BC era is looking a bit messy... I'm a little puzzled still as to why they pulled out given how popular Enduro seems to be becoming, unless it was exactly that and they didn't like the insurance implications.
From what I can gather a major part of the problem was BC doesn't have the infrastructure to insure all the events are run safely, too many events too soon! BC couldn't cope which then leaves them wide open to insurance claims a big problem for BC at the moment.
Yeah Public liability, loss of earnings and whatever they need to get back right, we're currently looking into that.
So you need insurance, but not really sure what type. BC insurance isn't enough, then it is and now it's not again.
I don't find the approach used by UKGE particularly inspiring. It's seemingly a bit dictatorial and arrogant, the events are expensive and organisation vague.
I can't help but think they won't survive, they didn't get the national bit of the EWS and there is far more choice now than there was when they were the happening thing.
here is the answer to my question;
Hi Phil,
Although Bespoke Insurance is our preferred provider, you can source your insurance elsewhere we are not tying you in to anything. Any insurance will need to cover you for taking part in competitive races. You will need to prove to us (send us copies of your certificate of insurance) that you adequately covered and that your cover is in place across any races dates that you plan to enter.We are able to liaise with Bespoke Financial to check this information hence they are our preferred supplier.
Although some are seeing this as an issue, I'm fine with it. I always take out an insurance policy anyway, and getting one that covers racing or even timed events is not easy, so having a broker who specialises in this type of cover might be a blessing.
I've asked for a quote, so that will be the acid test I guess.
Phil
This is not an actual fact or anything - but the impression I have is that BC collectively see Enduro as "Downhill with no protective equipment, no paramedics and only 3 marshals per track" and after the sad death of a spectator at a DH race last year (and a road motor rally in Scotland) it was all just a risk too far for them.
It would be hopeless trying to run an Enduro like 5 DH races in a row.
Things will settle down, loads of organisers have been running Enduro sans BC since the start (Tweedlove, half the SES rounds last year) so it isn't impossible.
Landowners will be adding to the risk aversion too, FCS being a likely contender on that front.
(all my opinion of course - I am retired from event organising now so can say what I like !)
I was interested in some of the UKGE rounds but this has put a stop to that.
So Steve's just posted on fb that you're already covered for 3rd party insurance - so what on earth do I need cover for? Preempting the demise of public healthcare?
after the sad death of a spectator at a DH race last year (and a road motor rally in Scotland) it was all just a risk too far for them.
I can't see how a death at a DH race and at a rally has any impact on enduro. It's a bit like saying there was a death at a tennis match so we're no longer going to insure golf.
I reckon the truth is there are too many independents running enduros and BC's influence was limited so they basically did the equivalent of saying "it's my ball and I'm taking it home with me"
. Any insurance will need to cover you for taking part in competitive races. You will need to prove to us (send us copies of your certificate of insurance) that you adequately covered and that your cover is in place across any races dates that you plan to enter.
Cover? For what exactly. Cover for running over bunnies or people, how much liability or what circumstances. Does it need to match the terms of their insurance or just some of them?
I always take out an insurance policy anyway, and getting one that covers racing or even timed events is not easy, so having a broker who specialises in this type of cover might be a blessing.
What for? As is being said, a BC licence covers you for 3rd party insurance, which is what I can see them being very twitchy about. Surely we're all big and ugly enough to sign a waiver admonishing them of any responsibility if we crash!
I'd have been in over my head anyway, but certainly not doing a UKGE now!
Quite a few folk on FB jumping to their defense, despite clearly not knowing any more than anyone here 🙂
Awaits arrival of Mr parr in the thread.
I think they're trying to do something good in making sure riders are covered for the worst, but the implementation is poor. My original comment on the facebook thread that they deleted pointed out that X hundred racers buying individual policies will cost far, far more in total than if they negotiated a group plan for all entrants.
[i]I can't see how a death at a DH race and at a rally has any impact on enduro. It's a bit like saying there was a death at a tennis match so we're no longer going to insure golf.[/i]
Can't you?
The Jim Clark 'accident' and fall-out will I think impact many sports that rely on public (ie roads, tracks) facilities, especially in Scotland. I'm sure the Forestry Commission are taking an interest as it is perfectly acceptable that they understand the 'risks' to their business.
Can't you?
No I can't, and I work in insurance for a living. Two deaths in different events, but BC stop insuring enduro yet continue to insure DH, and I'm sure rally events will continue to be insured by whoever does that.
like the helmet rule, UKGE will be the only race organiser in the UK that are making PI compulsory*. *unless anyone else changes there mind.kimbers - Memberso will other enduro events ask you to take out insurance too?
Scott?
I may be completely wrong here but it doesn't seem to hinder anyone else...
If I'm the insurance/compo seeking sort and I go to an organised event, I have an accident, I'm/a spectator is injured, I out the spectator is going to claim on the events insurance, whether I have my own or not.
Why would having my own insurance change that? Yes it's an inherently dangerous activity but I don't believe they can in any way indemnify them selves against personal injury from a legal stand point and disclaimers are worth less than the ink they're signed with.
Insurance is risk based, at this point somebody higher up than boardin bob has gone risk, outdoors, racing, stuff and put 2+2=9 on the form. Couple this with the Llangollen incident and you can see what's going on. We do t understand but reckon it's like this without as many safeguards (I remember Sif Pattons we need Marshalls posts) so hence it's hard to insure. If you want to make insurance mandatory make sure that you have the most competitive policy on offer and you tell people what they need to do as an alternative.
Boardinbob, if you work at the business end of insurance you'll be well placed to shoot me down but, my impression is, these days if you can't categorically prove you couldn't have removed the risk then you'll get no win no fee lawyers chasing you for anything with a chance of significant payout.
If enduro has half the marshals of Dh and twice the distance surely there is a significant risk the the organisers could reduce, making it costly enough to defend against a claim that no one will, they'll just settle.
Death is a big chunk of a payout for an insurance company, especially a spectator's (who won't have insurance) and they'll have less chance of defeating a claim at an enduro with less safety checks in place. And as most of the enduroists keep telling us an enduro is downhill with transitions so is just as much risk per mile as full Dh
If enduro has half the marshals of Dh
That would be a significant improvement
like the helmet rule, UKGE will be the only race organiser in the UK that are making PI compulsory
FWIW, PI means Professional Indemnity in insurance circles, I assume what's being required is PA, or Personal Accident insurance, as 3rd party is already covered. This is confusing enough already, without folk thinking they need PI insurance!