[Closed] Ideas why I keep crashing my XC bike?!

Slow down on the xc bike and consider a skills course?

Sadly your bike has roadie geometry, popularised by XC racers in the '90s.

Thankfully manufacturers are gradually realising this and moving slowly towards mountain bike geometry, like bikes had back in the 1930s. 🙂

Lean the bike, not you??

Stop over thinking it.

Everyone crashes.

Take a skills course. Don't listen to anyone on here (99.9% of people who post don't actually ride a bike)

Would geo help at all? Make it more forgiving perhaps?

With the giant i feel it warns me if i start to steer to sharply but i dont seem to get that on the cube... i might even be barking up the wrong tree?

Nope.

And nope. Get a skills course booked. Geo will make duck all difference. Learn to ride properly and know your limitations.

Take more care in icey conditions. Take more care in loose gravely conditions. Ride more.

OEM tyres? Could be super plasticky with little grip? Having worked in a shop selling cube that's what I'd put my money on if it's as you bought it.

+1 on tyres

The cube ones will be the crap version

I had already replaced them for the pacestar version tho 🙁

The first crash was on the rubbish versions

Tbh ive kinda been on a 2 year skills course with my brother as hes a much better rider than most

Cookci I am a frigging awesome ride (ish ha) Much better than my brother. But a skills course with an independent third party who does not know you at all is well worth it. My brother went on one (despite riding with me for 10 years) and he learnt stuff and does stuff that he had no idea he could do (and to be fair I thought he could not do).

brother as hes a much better rider than most

Pics or it didn't happen

Everyone crashes occasionally. You probably aren't doing anything wrong. Play on some technical stuff on the xc bike to get a feel for how to ride it. Different bike may require alteration to technique. Full suss can be different to hardtails. I switch between rigid singlespped and long travel hardtail and the difference is massive.

I'd suggest looking at bar width and stem. Wide bars do make a bike feel more stable and slow everything down. Stem length can alter your weight as well changing how things feel.

Tyre pressure, or wear? Good tyres pumped up to 50psi probably won't grip as well as bad tyres run at 30.

Everyone crashes occasionally

Can confirm, I crashed on my xc bike yesterday. That big branch jumped out at me I swear.

My perspective on this is that you need more weight over the front end.
XC bikes can understeer if the front is unweighted. I know I've had to teach myself to load up the front of my scalpel to prevent understeer. You may be the same of you have have a totally different issue.

As your brother is awesome.And genetics and stuff.
Obviously,it must be aliens.It's the only rational explanation.

What bar/stem combos do you have on each bike?

And what fork?

Steep head angle, bendy wheels n fork, long stem, short offset - all can add to oversteer and front wheel washing out

^^ happened to me in my Anthem 29er today, dusty trail, left hand band negative camber. Rocket Ron 22psi.

Shit happens.

I crashed today as well - like you at Cannock. Bloody forks dived and pitched me over the bars. Used all 150mm travel tossing me onto a pointy rock using my pelvis as a cushion,..

Tbh ive kinda been on a 2 year skills course with my brother as hes a much better rider than most

Run along and ask your brother then...

You keep crashing on your worse bike, riding things that'd be easy on your good bike? Seems pretty straightforward that. I was out on my xc bike today and it's like stepping back in time, it's good at its job though (riding up hills really fast)

It's all in the riding position. Bars too low, too far forward perhaps, saddle to far forward putting your weight forward.

Try a shorter stem, higher stem, saddle further back, more air in forks, get your weight back in corners or maybe forward depending on the corner.

Loads of things to try with your bike and your body language. Riding a bike off-road on anything other than a smooth climb is all to do with moving your body around. You can't simply sit in the saddle, lean a bit and turn the bars.

Watch some videos perhaps.

Its a Manitou M30 100mm fork 700mm bars with 70mm stem.

Giant has 725mm bars with 60mm stem.

Steering feels much faster to me on the Cube.

what does left hand band negative camber mean?

A) When mtb'ing you either mince down or fall off sometimes. You can even fall off when mincing if not concentrating.
B) Ice is slippy. Loose gravel is slippy. Go figure.
C) Make sure you are leaning the bike not yourself - if your weight is inside the bike when it starts to slide your weight will exaggerate it and you'll go down. If your weight is outside the bike it'll slide more under you and you've a better chance keeping it upright.
[i](note that point C is easier said than done and one day maybe i'll master my own advice)[/i]

Only two crashes, several months apart. You're not trying hard enough.

Seriously.

Bend turns left but slopes to the right - the opposite of a berm. When turning left weight your left hand and right foot maybe I not a pro or dun ze skilz cors.

get your weight back in corners or maybe forward

Or buy an [b]undo[/b] button.

So crashing less on the skills compensator vs the one that needs skills?

Moar skillz 😛

But more seriously, sounds like losing grip on loose corners? That's an outside foot down, lean the bike etc kind of thing.

and probably wrong tyres 😉

get your weight back in corners or maybe forward

Best advice......EVER

Without knowing the bike, the corner or the speed it's impossible to say which. My post was meant to say 'experiment with different weight positions and see what feels stable'.

I still think that's sound advice.

From what you posted wrong weight balance on the front, you either pushed it too hard or unweighted too much causing it to skip out. Discount the icy one as not much sticks to ice.
Did you have a saddle right up you on the XC bike? That never helps.

+1 For a good skills course, does your brother ride with you and follow you giving helpful commentary or is he riding for his own fun?

I'm about to grab my XC bike out of storage as I'm racing on it this weekend, will take a bit of adjustment from the 160mm Enduro Sled I've been riding (hell at least it's fluro yellow which will help) but accepting it's different and requires more skill to ride harder is one of the adjustments.
Ironically I would have been riding it for the last couple of weeks but a silly crash through some dusty hardpack left me a little too tender for the 100mm bone shaker experience.

Did you have a saddle right up you on the XC bike? That never helps

A well set-up bike should be fine with the saddle up, imo. Droppers help to get fast on rough stuff, also really help with long travel bikes, but aren't at all essential for normal singletrack.

Weight distribution is everything. And bike set-up enables that.

I can move my weight around much more comfortable without a saddle restricting me. It may be possible to deal with it but it's not ideal especially if your pushing your skills. It very quickly removes options for going forward/backwards easily which when you finding the limits and grip combinations is essential and means the small movements that can save a situation might not work out.
(pointless pic oif XC rider crashing on what looks like uphill 😉 )
[img] [/img]

No wonder he wiped out. Look at that stem! 🙂

A longer stem will increase stability and reduce twitchiness. Try that.

Tbh ive kinda been on a 2 year skills course with my brother as hes a much better rider than most

Being a good rider has nothing to do with him being a good instructor and knowing how to impart techniques especially for you.

Hang on a mo. I'm not convinced that wheels should be trashed by that kind of crash. Was the replacement particularly cheap or lightweight, and folded causing the crash, not as a result?

Having said that, Cannock was sketchy at the weekend. Incredibly dry and dusty.

Your geometry is not the reason - my Sanderson has similar geometry, and many DH bikes were that steep back in the day.
Sounds like both oops and perhaps a proper skillz in cornerz coaching session needed.

Are you sure that the reason for both crashes was not the front wheel buckling? It's pretty strange for a wheel to collapse after losing grip unless it's had a direct impact. Could the reason for both crashes have been the failure of the front wheel?

Are you sure that the reason for both crashes was not the front wheel buckling? It's pretty strange for a wheel to collapse after losing grip unless it's had a direct impact. Could the reason for both crashes have been the failure of the front wheel?

It had crossed my mind

initially I was using alexrim ZX24 (came with the bike) but replaced those rims (myself) with WTB i19.

I've ridden with these Rims a number of times on rockier terrain and they were still running perfectly true. I gave the spokes a flick before I started to check they were still ok (not very scientific I know).

I don't really remember much and not sure exactly where it happened (it was on one of the final descents and out in the open with no trees) but I do know I didn't hit anything (as there was nothing to hit) and I was going pretty quick and riding it pretty hard.

I cannot get my head around how the wheel is so bent from an understeer and was questioning really if its possible that I bent the wheel by overcorrecting the front wheel sliding?

I've seen front wheels buckle like you're describing, usually it's where the front wheel loses grip and you jerk the bars and grab the brake pitching you over the front. With the front wheel now 90 degrees to the forces of you braking and trying to stay behind the wheel/bars, the wheel is now in it's weakest orientation so the rim is likely to buckle.

What you need to do to rectify it hard to say. Cheapest option is to try and adapt your riding position, be that by swapping stem spacers or just staying more forward over the bars when doing whatever it was when you had your crashes, to maintain traction.

p.s. I tend to crash a lot more riding my "enduro" ht than my full bounce enduro bike. Hardtails are a bit less forgiving.

It's just frustrating when it leaves you out of pocket.

IME XC bikes with old school geometry become even worse if you put short stem and riser bars on them. Fully committing and putting enough weight on descents is a must... that said on a bad day or unknown trails it requires bit too much and all flow is lost.

Oh and make sure that fork does not dive too much, on a HT it should not be too plush.

So do you think if I had a stronger rim I might have gotten away with it?

Is the I19 a strong rim? Could the poor quality of spokes be causing the rim to fold?

The wheels on my giant seem pretty damn strong (P-XC2 as they have a deep profile) and maybe that's why I haven't bent those?

Slow down to a level you know you're not going to crash, look ahead and concentrate on technique. After a while start to try to carry speed but not to a level you feel you're in danger of crashing.

69.5 is not steep for an XC bike.

Is the I19 a strong rim? Could the poor quality of spokes be causing the rim to fold?

I tend to view cheap-pre built wheels more as pre-laced than pre-built...
Maybe a more thorough pre-ride check on the spoke tension in case 1-2 have really come slack.

More likely poor quality of the riding.

More likely poor quality of the riding.

I went OTB a few weeks ago but I definitely know why... (and I know it was sloppy technique as I was following the kid and not paying attention) and despite the wheel hitting a root in a 1' deep ditch really hard (yepo really not paying attention) the wheel didn't collapse... (though it did need a bit of truing)

Ditch your SPDs

I thought front slide out at speed crashes were very likely to result in wheel damage?

Only if you smack it hard and sideways into a rock or something equally solid. More bending force on a planted, cornering wheel than a sliding one.

and I do remember not hitting anything like that and there was nothing to hit anyway!

Go on a skills course. It's amazing what you learn / un-learn. Best bike related £50 I've spent.

and I do remember not hitting anything like that and there was nothing to hit anyway!

Some loose spokes with tight ones on the other side can easily collapse a wheel though.

I got some £100/pair wheels (well that was sale price) and the spoke tension was all over before I re-finished them. I actually fitted the front first and first ride it was a cm out on one half (straightened a bit on the trail).. got home and just retensioned everything and checked the back (as yet unused wheel)and several spokes were not really tight.

Firstly, everyone crashes occasionally, it's part of progression, it's how we learn limits, and even if you are the best rider in the world you'll still make mistakes from time to time, don't get hung up on the fact you crashed in a similar way twice, it might just be coincidence, and don't beat yourself up for crashing.

However, this problem (whatever it is) [b]cannot be reliably diagnosed over the internet[/b]. Sorry, but that's just the way it is, even if by pure chance someone above has hit the nail directly on the head, you won't know for sure.

Do not change any components/setup yet, this needs a real life person* watching you to see what's going on, you may be doing something fundamentally wrong, you might not, it might be that you only do something wrong under certain conditions, or there might be something glaringly obviously wrong with your bike/setup, or you may have simply exceeded your skills.

*It doesn't have to be a professional skills coach (but they would be ideal!), but it does need to be someone who has not just the skills to ride better than you, but the skills to analyse your riding, and then offer appropriate advice/coaching in a way in which you understand and can implement.

The marbles were out in force over cannock at the weekend. I rode a fair bit slower than normal so I didn't die.

The issue with Cannock is that you need to get your weight over the front a lot for grip, but when it lets go it goes quickly and you hit the ground fast.

A hardtail will be steerer than a full suss at ride height too with the same static numbers.

Wheels are immensely strong vertically .I've seen the result of someone hitting a car head on with enough force to destroy the forks and bend the down tube.The front wheel was completely unscathed (Me).
And surprisingly weak laterally.I've seen the result of someone tucking the front wheel at walking pace on a gravel car park and taco the wheel beyond repair (Also me).
Both wheels were professionally built (Me again) and not your cheap ass flimsy sheet neiver.
Falling off (other than catastrophic gear failure and acts of gawd) is the deficit between technique and required outcome.
If you've crashed....it's because of something you've done/failed to anticipate.

I don't suppose any tyres grip really well on loose gravel either?

I like Vigilantes at Cannock, better than any of the other front tyres I've had.

thinking of buying a WTB wheelset with Bronsons already fitted as my rear tyre needs replacing anyway. Not sure how they compare to nobby nic

Damage from the W/E involves:

-Severe scratches to the lower fork side - superficial
-bent brake levers - needs replacing
-bent wheel - needs replacing
-Broken remote lock lever
-smashed case on mio cyclo 305 which no longer mounts to the bracket

[img] [/img]

Love that ^^ 😆

EDIT assuming the rider wasn't badly injured.. actually looks like it could be pretty bad....

Almost any bike can be ridden successfully at a trail centre or down a mountain, within certain limitations.

My 100mm forked 29er XC hardtail on 2.35 Nobby Nics has been ridden on all kinds of terrain. I don't crash it any more than any other bike 😉

It's all about weight distribution and attacking the trail.

As somebody once almost said,

"It's not about the..." ....head angle.

This is a good read:

[img] [/img]

The picture above of the crash - how do you even get in that situation? If my front wheel loses grip it slides out to the side.

I would be surprised if your wheel collapsed causing it - even when cornering the forces are fairly close to in plane as you lean the bike over.

There are little corrections you can make to save these things, but if you don't see it coming, it will happen fast. Ignore the ices one.

A hardtail or rigid will be less forgiving than a FS. I rode rigid for a bit and fell off quite a bit - it was much easier to find yourself on the wrong side of your skill boundary with no option to scrub off speed etc.

Those angles aren't *that* steep for a 29er, and I don't think they'd be the source of this issue. You will fall off from time to time, sounds like a chunk of bad luck with the results of the crashes.

As others have said, not diagnosable over the internet.

Edit - that won't stop us trying if you could just do it again on video this time though.

and I appreciate you all trying:). TBH it helps me to get it all off my chest ha ha!!!

The picture above of the crash - how do you even get in that situation?

Front wheel tuck - Come in fast to a corner, lean with the bike, keeping your weight back and touch the front brake, or jerk on the bars, or hit a lump to transfer your weight forwards.

If my front wheel loses grip it slides out to the side.

Then you are probably leaning the bike more than your body, correctly weighting the front wheel, keeping off the brakes and turning smoothly.

😀

Too much speed into a corner and jamming on brakes and/or over correction for the inevitable overshoot, catch on something and end up wheel at 90 degrees. Maybe. Brush off speed before the corner, off the brakes, flow through to (and sight) the exit.

Rorschach - Member 
Wheels are immensely strong vertically

Unless they are carbon American Classic rims vs bunny hop on a humble fireroad, but that's another story.