[Closed] I Want - Very, very, VERY, fast HT frame

Scale 899.

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Agreed, any carbon scale is stupidly quick.

I believe Meridas are quite fast.
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Scott scale 899?

No such thing as a fast bike.

Fast rider? Yes.

Are you one?

Or Cannondale Flash. Don't buy the 899 though unless you are stupidly rich, buy the 30 and sell the bits. It's the same frame, just a slightly heavier one.

Orbea Almas used to be fast.
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As others have said, Scott Scale?

Either that or some custom framebuilder jobbo to get the geometry to your taste...

No such thing as a fast bike.
Fast rider? Yes.
Are you one?

Not particularly...

But I am after the sort of ride that only normally come with short travel, long TT race type geometry.

I like a bike that feels like it is always faster than your lung capacity, always scarier on the downs, but quick as a whippet up hill. With a bike like this, I push myself every ride. With other bikes I sit back and enjoy the ride

Zaskar?

Whyte 19 Carbon. Sounds like it meets your spec.
Love mine.

Check out the LOOK and TIME hardtails, my dream HT if i was to buy a high end one. They have the seatpost as part of the frame like high end road bikes, very swish.

[IMG] [/IMG]

I have a carbon Scale, love it. My bro has a carbon Zaskar and that feels very 'racey', probably more so than my Scale.

cynic-al - Member
No such thing as a fast bike.

Fast rider? Yes.

Are you one?

Cannondale HT's are nice

aren't all the fast riders on 29ers now ?

Cannondale Flash for sure!

Whippet?

Heh I was indeed being cheeky - interesting anecdote.

Did anyone else think "GAZ" - what a crap bike brnad-name?

Wondered why the frame had dimensions marked up on it....

my old rocklobster was a nice light xc machine 23lb an could shed even more weight quite easly!

on £300, throw a long stem on & bingo!

but if moneys no thing then I'd co cannondale flash or the scott - built as race bikes!

So, Scott Scale 30 then...?

What's their weaknesses?

Having broken the Ti framed Lucky Strike, I rather dubious of combining speed + rocky Welsh trails + carbon fibre...

But would be happily convinced

So you want an ultralight bike, then say you're worried about how it'll handle your local riding 🙄

No real 'weaknesses' on the Scale, it's a lightweight carbon hardtail, there's not really anything to do wrong...

It's not what you asked but have you ever sat on an S-Works Epic?

I had a early scale 30, felt super fast and surprisingly playfull, it's only weak point was it didn't have a replaceable mech hanger, apart from that it was solid, the newer ones do have one though so I wouldn't worry
From what you've said I'd say newer scale or flash for light and fast

Just buy one of those cheap carbon jobbies from China

So you want an ultralight bike, then say you're worried about how it'll handle your local riding

More a question of - are there any snapping frame / stone impact type horror stories?

Haven't come across any, but haven't looked previously.

IIRC one of the other carbon race HTs was getting bad press for failures 6-12 months or so ago - RM Vertex perhaps??

It's not what you asked but have you ever sat on an S-Works Epic?

Quite taken by the 29er Epic when in the US earlier this year. To my surprise, I would say over 60% of the Spesh stock was big wheeled.

[url= http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FTWHIPSID100/on-one-carbon-xc-whippet-frame-rockshox-sid-rlt-100mm-forks-bundle?utm_source=Planet+X+and+On+One&utm_campaign=0100166b01-21st_August_2011_Block_Version8_15_2011&utm_medium=email ]Whippet + sids £599[/url]

Merida 0.Nine
Sub 1kg weight, lifetime warranty, and ridden to world cup and world champs victory by Jose Hermida.
Also apparently coming in a 29" version for 2012 if that floats your boat...

"I like a bike that feels like it is always faster than your lung capacity, always scarier on the downs, but quick as a whippet up hill. With a bike like this, I push myself every ride. With other bikes I sit back and enjoy the ride"

Have to say, this is what a Giant Anthem feels like, not scarey on the downs though just encourages you to go quicker their too. OK not a HT but easily as quick IMO

Anthem's are disappointingly heavy for the money though. With the exception of the top XX equipped one they're all a fair bit porkier than the alternatives.

Not the be all and end all, but a shame IMO.

I'd still say the Scale 30 is the best compromise, although I did look at the Whippet/SIDs deal with interest!

More a question of - are there any snapping frame / stone impact type horror stories?

Haven't come across any, but haven't looked previously.

It's carbon, it will eventually crack some time if you ride it hard, possibly during a race. Ive seen a cracked Scott full sus before, snapped at the head tube.

Wondered why the frame had dimensions marked up on it....

Pronghorn, really nice bikes.

njee20 - which other full sussers are <26lbs for £2k?

😳 I have an Anthem, and love the feel of it.

Ride feels very close to my beloved Lucky Strike. Not as fast on the climbs, but the 100mm rear travel allows far more speed to be carried on descents.

Sadly, having not bent a thing in 15+ years of mtbing, I cracked the LS last year, and suspect that the Anthem is now cracked as well.

Creaking, groaning Anthem is not confirmed as cracked just yet (and I have my fingers crossed that it is not...). Giant dealer suspects BB / pivot or mech hanger creakage. I suspect the rock dint just above the BB 🙁 Needs a full strip and re-grease to fully check out

Lots of nice carbon HT frames around these days!....

Cannondale Flash would be a good choice - I just got a 29er Flash Carbon and it feels like cheating 😀

It IS quite a compliant frame though (VERY stiff but floaty at the same time - gives in the stays, seattube and SAVE post) from your thread title it sounds like you want something with no flex at all anywhere...

michaelmcc - Member
It's carbon, it will eventually crack some time if you ride it hard, possibly during a race. Ive seen a cracked Scott full sus before, snapped at the head tube.

Followed by the same logic

It's steel, it will eventually crack some time if you ride it hard, possibly during a race. Ive seen a cracked steel frame

It's aluminium, it will eventually crack some time if you ride it hard, possibly during a race. Ive seen a cracked aluminium frame

etc 🙄

Oh dear, gonna incur the wrath of the Anthem crowd now 🙂

I didn't say Anthems weren't good bikes, they have a huge following, and I don't doubt they're excellent, I just know from weighing lots of friends ones that they're not all that light.

njee20 - which other full sussers are <26lbs for £2k?

You say other, but on my scales I've not seen an Anthem meet those criteria! A number of friends have 2011 Anthem X Advanced SL 1s, and they're over 25lbs stock, which is a bit disappointing I think for the money. Weighed one with Podium wheels and what not, pretty tricked out, and it was still nearly 24.

It's a bike [s]carbon[/s], it will eventually crack some time if you ride it hard, possibly during a race.

FTFY

Have always been concerned about alu fatigue life and cracking...

Re stiffness - the LS was Ti, so had a good mix of quick geometry and trail buzz soakage.

njee20 - My Anthem cost £1800 is is approx 26lb. Its well known that the plastic frame one is only fractionally lighter than the metal one, but you pay alot of extra cash when the components are not much different. So on my reckoning buy a cheap Anthem and spend another £1.5k on very light stuff and you could get sub 25lb very, very, VERY fast FS bike. (but its irrelevant because OP doesnt want a FS) 🙂

Followed by the same logic

It's steel, it will eventually crack some time if you ride it hard, possibly during a race. Ive seen a cracked steel frame

It's aluminium, it will eventually crack some time if you ride it hard, possibly during a race. Ive seen a cracked aluminium frame

etc

Its different, you get more warning with alloy or steel, and often they bend or dent before cracking. Little to no warning with carbon, they just snap straight through.

I am sure that the suggestions on here are maybe better than this, and it appears your looking to spend a bit more than this, but for me I love the orange elite. I have had some very, very nice hardtails and full sus's over the years but the elite is far better than all of them. Test rode one thinking that it might be a bit disappointing but loved it. Paint work is not really my thing, going to have it resprayed soonish, but is one of the few bikes that I have owned that I would bother doing this with.
Very fast feeling but also lots of fun to ride and surprisingly comfortable for a alloy hardtail. As I said probably not quite what your looking for but the above opinion is an honest one, not a "I've got this bike so it's great", I am never that confident in my choices and far too much self doubt to have that type of opinion!

Re the anthem: I do think it's quite funny, although maybe not much to go by, that Liam Killeen who said a while ago that the hardtail was dead for xc racing and seemed to always want to ride the specialized epic, uses a Giant hardtail, not the anthem.

Its well known that the plastic frame one is only fractionally lighter than the metal one, but you pay alot of extra cash when the components are not much different. So on my reckoning buy a cheap Anthem and spend another £1.5k on very light stuff and you could get sub 25lb very, very, VERY fast FS bike

Yes, I didn't dispute that, but why not do the same with a Top Fuel/Epic/Spark etc etc? And my comment was not at your specific bike, it was at the range of Anthems, of which the X Advanced SL is one, and it is heavier than it's competitors, ditto the equivalent model that most of my friends have had in the past.

My comment was that Anthems (off the shelf) were reasonably heavy, perhaps I should have caveated it further! IMO it's fairly irrelevant what you can get them to weigh if you spend £1500 on them.

Its different, you get more warning with alloy or steel, and often they bend or dent before cracking. Little to no warning with carbon, they just snap straight through.

Rubbish. Carbon can crack, alu can suddenly fail.

This

always scarier on the downs

and this

quick as a whippet up hill

says rigid forks, rather than suspension.

Whatever... 🙄

Ive seen a few cracked carbon frames at races, never seen a cracked alloy one. Go figure...

If you have deep pockets Scott Scale.

If you dont On-One Whippet.

Light bikes (sub 20 pounds) ride fast its up to you to stay on the bike and off the brakes.

You will need the skills to match either otherwize you WILL hurt yourself.

Any decent bike frame can fail regardless of material.

Ive seen a few cracked carbon frames at races, never seen a cracked alloy one. Go figure...

How conclusive 😉

More alu frames fail as there's more out there, but the scaremongers love to jump on the broken carbon frames! Look through the forum threads, I'll wager there's far more about broken alu, and probably even ti lately, than carbon.

Ive seen a few cracked carbon frames at races, never seen a cracked alloy one. Go figure...

You don't hang around at races very much. Everything snaps.

Any reason to go for the Scale 30 rather than the Scale 35??

35 looks to be the cheapest way into the carbon frameset...

Have looked at the geometry, and it is one of the few frames I've looked at with a longer TT than the Lucky Strike - although the head angle is a couple of degrees more relaxed.

The Whippet + Sid deal looks fab - but its the old web trick of advertise at whatever price 'cause there's none in stock 🙁

TBH though, the Scale 30 / 35 are obviously a lot dearer, but given the full bike spec I dont think they are that much different from the Whippet

Any reason to go for the Scale 30 rather than the Scale 35??

Nope.

Lighter frames than the Whippet too.

Hopefully the creaking from your Anthem X is just the rocker bearings. Mine only lasted 9 months so I replaced the lot with better quality bearings provided by kaesae on here. Smooth as butter after that.

Hopefully the creaking from your Anthem X is just the rocker bearings.

Hoping that or BB. Mrs rkk01 has me on DIY at the mo, so I [i]still [/i] haven't had time for a full strip.

njee20 - which other full sussers are <26lbs for £2k?

Here you go. 23-24lb, XT/DT Swiss/Formula......£1800 delivered.

http://www.canyon.com/_uk/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=2069

That Canyon is > 25 lb, and more of a trail bike than a fast thing. (not that I have ridden one to tell) but the geometry and travel suggests so.

My mistake....24.9lbs, but lets not quibble, it is less than though 26lb though. I rode one, was good you could def race it.....I went for the Lux in the end as I did want an out an out race bike like the OP but full suss.

Cube? Loads of folk racing them this summer.

That Canyon is > 25 lb, and more of a trail bike than a fast thing. (not that I have ridden one to tell) but the geometry and travel suggests so.

Surely that makes it more impressive that it's lighter than an Anthem whilst still being a longer travel bike?

The point is it satisfied the criteria you originally stated. Did you actually mean:

"find a bike that is basically an Anthem, but not actually an Anthem, and is lighter, whilst costing less than the one I got", then we can all agree with you! 🙄

The Nerve MR is a 100mm XC bike so same as an Anthem, not quite as direct as the carbon Lux but a race bike nonetheless. Not a trail bike thats for sure.

Anthem X Advanced SL-0 is basically the same spec as my Lux MR9 but costs £6700 versus £3200 for the Canyon. Go figure.

I bought a previous years version of the Scale 35 at a bargain price, stripped it down and rebuilt it with light components. It is an excellent bike, I really have no concerns over the strength or durability of the frame. I have previously broken Ali, Steel and Ti frames. The inital components on the Scale 35 where a strange mix with some very heavy bit, noticably the wheels. For the price I paid for it and the money I got back from selling the new parts it was a bargain.

My wife has a Whippet. I don't think the frame quailty is quite as good as the Scale, the finish is softer so shows a lot more scratches. Weight wise it is a little bit heavier than my Scale frame (19" Scale vs 16" Whippet). I can't remember the exact figure, maybe 150g. However for the price the Whippet is great, and my wife seems to win loads more races than I ever will!

mcboo - I completely agree with you, and as was said above, no reason at all to buy the plastic Anthem as it weighs only fractionally less than the metal one.

When I bought the Anthem I looked at the Canyon MR, but the Anthem was very very similar spec for the same money (and very similar weight). All I was saying is that you could buy a metal Anthem as opposed to the plastic one and use the change to make it an incredibly light race bike, as the metal Anthem frame is very light to start with.

I would be genuinely intrigued to ride an Canyon MR to see how the ride compares to an Anthem. What I do know, as I said above is that the Anthem is a very very fast bike.

Niner Air 9 Carbon, end of debate.

yeh I looked at getting a alu Anthem last year, no question was best in class.

But you bought the Canyon?

.....best in class until Canyon started selling in the UK. tbh I wanted a carbon race bike and didnt want to compromise on the groupset so no question I was going German mail-order.

That Scale 29er looks quick...

Hhhmmm, this

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Or this?
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26er [i]Looks[/i] faster, but I suspect that the 29er might [i]be [/i]faster

26er has some useful discounts on. 😀

29er prices are solid 🙁

26 for my money, still not convinced by 29ers.