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you aren't fast but you are a steady rider and you don't appear to stop much, IMO this is to your advantage.
Rings a bell....
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This thread seems to be drifting towards a discussion on my riding ability.
That's not what I originally intended.
I was more trying to make the point that there are so many people laughing at the idea of riding fast on a Rohloff or 29er and recommending going on a skills course and getting your shock TFTuned and so on as if that was the only way to ride fast and enjoy mountain biking, yet they are not beating me, an overweight underpowered old duffer,in races.
Forums are funny places and often weird ideas seem to prevail
I think the point you make is fair and one I knew any way. In endurance events fitness trumps technical skills. That struck me riding with Sophie Bowtell (then she married and became Sophie Wood). She did really well in loads of trail quest type stuff. But out riding with her I was sometimes surprised at the bits she walked. So I sort of agree with your point
But on the other hand lots of people ride for the technical side of the sport/ hobby. Its all about the skills, not the fitness. They're not wrong are they. Its their leisure time. They don't role of huge drop offs to do better in races. They just do it for a laugh. Often they get fit having a laugh. Maybe they'd thrash you in an XC race, but they're to busy doing their own thing
Mate, I've shit on people on things like Hecklers and Fives and stuff. Also been caned by bods on singlespeeds and really shonky bikes. It's not about the bike, as an American who Never Tested Positive once said...
There was actually a compliment buried in my post.
If you buy your forks from TF Tuned, they'll adjust them to suit you as part of the deal.
All the trappings of the ultra-(s)**** fettler lifestyle with none of the expense.
The fitness that you have,the will to go on and on until the end,the energy/fats stored to be able to do this for hours compared to the whippets that passed you over the first 6 hours,the extra body weight to let your weight get you up/over and around these courses and a near hassle free gearing system all totals up to place you exactly where you described in the races.
Nothing startling.
maybe if you lost your skill doing track stands you would be faster. Something to work on for next season
Very simply because - as a fat 49 year old git doing two events in the next 3 weeks - some of us are just there for the fun of it - and accept that overtaking unicyclists is about as much as we can hope for.
But I think you should celebrate our contented mediocrity which allows all you trail whippets to shine. 😉
as if that was the only way to ride fast and enjoy mountain biking, yet they are not beating me, an overweight underpowered old duffer,in races.
Why must riding fast and enjoying mountain biking have anything at all to do with racing?
Coz I'm bored
[i]29ers are no good on twisty singletrack[/i]
I've only ever heard/read this in introductions to reviews of 29ers. NOWHERE ELSE.
[i]Fat people ride slowly[/i]
Fat people maybe, not fat mtbers
[i]Tyres must be at least 2.2" wide and run at 20 - 30 psi for optimum grip[/i]
Fashion... fa fa fa fa fashion. big tyres are more comfortable though
[i]Hub gears are heavy and slow[/i]
According to..?
[i]Suspension should be professionally modified and adjusted to suit the rider[/i]
You're making them up now
[i]Bunnyhopping and other technical skills are essential[/i]
Only poncy STWers say this
[i]Bar ends should not be used with risers[/i]
Cos they look shit
Must concentrate on Would I Lie to You now
Bike skills don't trouble me either. There's little at trail centres that demand them, fortunately.
Enter a cross race this winter, that'll put your self-beliefs into perspective.
HTH.
I'm confused by this:
[i]There have been a couple of threads recently where people have become disillusioned with mountain biking because they don't have what they believe are the necessary skills to ride properly. Both were women, maybe it's just that blokes are less likely to admit such things in public.
As I said, [b]I can't bunny hop or do much technical stuff[/b]. I'm fairly good at track stands though.
It's a shame that people are being put off mountain biking because they think they, or their bike, are not good enough.
If [b]I can do it, and do it reasonably well[/b], it really can't be all that hard.[/i]
Sounds a bit contradictory, and almost like saying if you don't do races it's not proper mountain biking.
Bar ends on a cross bike?
OP, I think you'll fit right in 🙂
SpokesCycles - MemberI don't regard HtN as a race for proper racers either. I did the first one (and won) and that was excellent, but as soon as they introduced the CX vs MTB thing I think a lot of the most serious racers were put off and you got a lower quality field.
So you won the first HTN and now it's not worth any note beacuse you didn't win again. 😉
Can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to enter a race and I absolutely look down on anyone who does with a great deal of condescension.
samuri - Member
Enter a cross race this winter, that'll put your self-beliefs into perspective.HTH.
He's not wrong y'know. I did this recently - hardest 45 minutes I've ever had on a (mountain) bike. The lack of respite due to there being no 'proper' descents really takes its toll in the latter stages when you're not used to it. Found out at the finish that I was comfortably beaten by Chipps (on his cross bike), but I didn't come last, which was my primary motivation.
the biggest problem is doing events is you never will race against the best in britain all at the same time.
For instance, xc racing used to be the shizzle back in 90's, early 2000's but now doesn't attract the capacity it used to. This is mainly down events being organised and more people preferring them to races. Scottish champs for instance had something poor like 17 elite males in the field.
Whether its this forum or other forum's, there is a huge number of people who have won events in the last 2 years, and many of them have never raced against each other, sure in the odd races maybe, but potentially location, timings etc means that some races attract only certain people.
Now, in most events, your guaranteed the winner will be recognisable and probably most people will have a fair inkling to who it is before the race starts. With events including 2, 3 or 4 people teams sometimes potential winners would rather race in a team for a change or for other reasons.
OP - I'm not doubting your prob a steady rider who can hold a good pace but if you were to enter a race/event with the top guys in britain just now i dont think you would stand a chance. Sure the bike plays a part in this, tyre pressures, shock set up etc etc, but the main part would be the rider. There's a hell of alot of good quality riders out there just now who will NEVER race against each other for many reasons ( work commitments, family, holiday, distance to event etc).
Well done on 5th by the way, although you'll prob know yourself, the distance between 5th and winning is a massive gap
Its not about the bike particularly on 50km+ events. (unless the brake is dragging)
...off to show off about overtaking a BMW over snake pass in the missus' Fiat Panda....
29ers are no good on twisty singletrack
Is true. Even 29er riders will admit it- they don't steer as well. Nor do 69ers
Fat people ride slowly
Yes. More slowly than a 70kg fit rider. Sorry, but it's true.
Tyres must be at least 2.2" wide and run at 20 - 30 psi for optimum grip
The only untruth. I run 2.1" tyres at 40psi tubeless and they're very fast.
Hub gears are heavy and slow
I used to run a Rohloff. It dragged in lower gears and now the same bike weights 3lbs less.
Suspension should be professionally modified and adjusted to suit the rider
Ideally, yes. A perfect set up will make a fork/shock better for you.
Bunnyhopping and other technical skills are essential
If you want to ride proper MTB trails, yep.
Bar ends should not be used with risers
Becuase the width of risers negate the need for bar ends.
Stu- not really. I've not entered a HtN since I won because I was thoroughly uninterested in the idea of a race being a contest of one type of cycling vs another when they are totally seperate entities. Cross is cross (and very respectable it is too) and XC is XC. Never the twain should meet.
i thought trailquest was a game on a playstation. 🙂
To me, the two essential facts you need to know are these:
First, the quality of the field at the events you mention is very low. A handful of fast riders at the front, and then things drop off very quickly. You admit yourself that you finish a long way off the leaders. At that kind of point, your finish time is essentially in the noise.
Just imagine how hard it would be to finish on the same lap as some of those top guys. Once you're training hard enough to do that, you might start worrying about your tyres being too hard to squeeze out those extra few seconds.
Second, people on here regurgitate and amplify a lot of rubbish. Received opinion is often repeated as if it is experience. It's a good way to waste time at work, but a bad way to learn much about riding.
Yes, bar-ends are good (even with risers) if you need more hand positions to relieve numbness. Personally, I don't like them for normal riding.
Yes, you don't need such big tyres if you ride a 29er.
Yes, you can set up your own suspension correctly without having to get someone to do it for you. TBH, while I don't doubt the skill of someone like TF-Tuned, I do doubt their ability to understand your riding style easily. And what of when you take your Midlands-tuned suspension to Scotland or the Alps? Suddenly you're sub-optimal or you're going to send your fork away again?!
Most people here are fast behind a keyboard so it's hard to know who has any credibility. I certainly wouldn't claim to be one of the best, but having ridden with some really good riders, I've learned to take everything here with a pinch of salt.
Perceived wisdom is a wonderful thing.
I like to think that I've never been beaten by someone I couldn't bench press. It's probably not true but it keeps me happy. I've overtaken a lot of lightweights but no fatter fatties I think.
Haven't read most of this, but maybe riding your bike is about enjoying it, whatever you ride, and not necessarily about fitness, endurance, competiteness or bling.
Or maybe the OP would be even quicker on a different bike.
tomaso - MemberPerceived wisdom is a wonderful thing.
Tomaso from MotoGPNews by any chance?
I've learned to take everything here with a pinch of salt.
I usually go for the whole bag 😉
Cinnamon girl, ampthill and one or two others have got it.
Most of the rest are responding to what they would like to believe I said so they can shoot me down.
It's not about me,it's about the bike.
I used myself as an example [i]because[/i] I'm old, fat, slow, unskilled and riding an unsuitable bike.
The question remains, why are so many riders who are convinced that having the shock preload precisely set and running exactly the right tyre pressures [i]even slower[/i] than me.
This thread did produce a couple of gems though.
Firestarter's egg & spoon comment for one. If I had claimed that I could have finished top half in the junior race, it would have had some relevance.
And SpokesCycles repeating the myth that bunny hopping is essential to riding "proper" trails as if that's all it takes to make it true.
I liked DeVs' reply and I'd like to be able to make the same claim myself, except that my power lifting total is 350kg at 100kg. Anyone who knows what that means will know it's the weightlifting equivalent of running a 50 minute 10km or peaking at 700w on a Powertap.
Lots of people answered this, but here's my take...
OK, I do mean to sound big headed. If that bothers you, stop reading now.
From various threads on this forum,it seems to be a common belief that...
Most of these threads are started, or commented on by the same individuals. This doesn't mean it's right.
29ers are no good on twisty singletrack
It's not that they're no good, it's just they're not as good as a 26er in the same situation.
Fat people ride slowly
They do. Or they can only ride fast for a little bit.
Tyres must be at least 2.2" wide and run at 20 - 30 psi for optimum grip
No they don't, but if you ride technical trails they're optimum for fun.
Hub gears are heavy and slow
They are heavy. And they tend to drag in lower gears. They're not slow though. They're possibly slower than mechs, but not enough for most to notice and they counter that with their low maintenance and lack of exposed parts for mud and damage to interfere with.
Suspension should be professionally modified and adjusted to suit the rider
They don't have to be, you can set everything to the middle setting and adapt your riding to suit. It's one or the other and if you have a bit of money hanging about then why not get your suspension set up for you, rather than average Joe?
Bunnyhopping and other technical skills are essential
Not essential, but certainly help you ride faster over technical terrain. Slow up and hoik the front end up, then lighten the back wheel for that log or stay fast and bunnyhop it?
Bar ends should not be used with risers
It looks gay. Seriously though, there's not much need for them as they bars are wider and your hands are in a better position than a narrow flat bar already.
...so how come I, a 47 year old
You didn't mention age above
with a BMI of 28,
BMI has nothing to do with fat, look at most of the English rugby backs.
riding a fully rigid Rohloff 29er with bar ends and risers and 45psi in the 2.0" tyres, who is unable to bunnyhop up a curb and gets off to walk the tricky bits, can consistently finish in the top half, usually in the top third and occasionally in the top quarter in races from 50km to 24 hours and currently be 5th in the Midland Trailquests Autumn League (did I mention I ride trailquests ?)
Your bike is suited to the events you do. A 5 inch trail bike would be overkill, and would in fact, be harder to pedal around.
Where are all these people with their perfectly suited and perfectly set up bikes and why do so many of them ride slower than me ?
Riding trails and having fun. My ibis is perfectly set up for what I want to do on it. It's gash for riding round SITs and MM. In fact, it's not that great going uphill at all. However, it rips downhill. The point is, the 2 or 3 minutes I make over you by being faster downhill with my 5 inch travel, 2.4 inch tyred bike is little in comparison to the 15 minutes you'll take out of me on a rigid bike uphill.
Doesn't mean I'm not having (possibly more) fun. And this is why I don't race.
The question remains, why are so many riders who are convinced that having the shock preload precisely set and running exactly the right tyre pressures even slower than me.
They are not as fit, obviously.
''Where are all these people with their perfectly suited and perfectly set up bikes? '' Probably out having fun rather than busting a gut at some event, trying to prove a point!
I can't bunny hop a curb either, but I'd like to be able to! I think it's a bit sad that you assume Mountain biking is all about proving your self at events - to me its about getting out with mates, making the most of the fantastic natural riding we have in this country and pushing myself to learn how to tackle the technical bits when getting off and pushing would be the easy option. If I were you, I'd take some time off events and get out and ride for the enjoyment of it, rather than training for the next event, and maybe [u]if[/u] you decide to start competing again, you won't need to get off and push at the tricky bits and you'll get round even faster!
and there I was thinking I was king of the pointless posts! Wow, you are truly awesome 😮
Where are all these people with their perfectly suited and perfectly set up bikes and why do so many of them ride slower than me ?
You only finish halfway up the field? I imagine all the good bikes are finishing ahead of you and the Asda specials behind.
Personally I have a carbon race machine, my body is a temple I am a finely tuned, finely honed racing machine and I'll kick your a55 on whatever bike you choose 29er, 69er, 26er, RM250. Bring it on old timer... 😉
The question remains, why are so many riders who are convinced that having the shock preload precisely set and running exactly the right tyre pressures even slower than me.
KINGTUT - MemberThey are not as fit, obviously.
Yup
Or maybe don't feel the need to prove a point.
Either way, it's not exactly rocket science. In fact, it's not even science at all. Your observations would have much more relevance (other than qualitative assessment) if either
a) all the other riders in the races were milandstrailquestgrahams and riding different bikes
or
b) you took all the riders and put them on identical bikes to yours.
I guess you could, of course, always start riding a light carbon framed XC race machine, with finely tuned suspension, and see where you end up in the race stakes. 😉
I'd say stop fixating on comparing yourself to others and have a good hard look at yourself:-
Fatties vs thinnies & oldies vs youngsters - How would YOUR times change if YOU lost weight? As an ex roadie with a bit of pedigree I can say that my performance is significantly lessened (and riding enjoyment decreased) by the extra "comfort" I'm currently carrying. Age has also blunted me. I can't do anything about time sadly but I can sort out the extra baggage - not to get back into elite contention but I know I'll enjoy myself more.
Skillz - Would YOU be faster or enjoy the trail de jour more if YOUR skills were honed? My off road skills are not great but I'm always trying to improve them. I came to mtb with practically no off road sense and was still a lot faster than most because of a big engine from the road - making big gains on the forest tracks & easy stuff and then having the world queuing up behind me on the techy stuff. If the course was mostly easy (a la trailquest style riding) I'd do well, and increasingly poorly as the technical content rose. You might be happy where you are technically and that's cool but improving in that department will improve your adaptability and ultimately your ability to enjoy and wider variety of riding.
Kit - Would YOUR riding improve if YOUR kit was better honed? All kit and setups have an ideal window of usefulness. A Rohloffed 29er with bar ends & thin tyres blown up to buggery would absolutely be the ideal bike on some tracks - I can imagine it being the perfect weapon of choice on a muddy trailquest. But is there a chance that you might be faster on certain locals if elements of that changed. It might be that your current skills and riding location preferences dictate that this might not be the case, but don't besmirch those that venture further afield and feel the need for example to use wider tyres at lower pressure to stay fast and in control. It might be that until you are in their shoes, you will never understand.
And finally, the kicker - you ain't all that! Sorry fella but you do have a little room for improvement in the performance department if that is important to you and maybe shedding a little weight & adding a few skills (I wonder if "must be able to bunnyhop" should be read a little less literally and thought of as a benchmark of "comfort and at oneness with ones bike"?) might do that. I checked your set2rise lap times & whilst this is clearly an apples and pears comparison my mate's wife was on average 8mins a lap faster than you. Now admittedly she was part of a team and only did the 4 so it's a harsh comparison with you soloing but......she is not the quickest on the flat tracks and had to get off and walk at least half a dozen of the techy bits on the lap as she bricks herself with anything pointing downhill (she has only be riding for a year). She was also feeling terrible and throwing up all night - turns out she was pregnant.
If I was you I would be reviewing your current racing performance, thanking whatever/whomever you believe in for an inherently good engine, and instead of wondering why those that obsess with the technical minutia are not as good as you think they should be, think positively about what you can learn from them.
CBA reading all but the or has made some points and missed a few. her not actually that fast and huge amounts of tripe are spoken on here.
[i]...so how come I,[/i]
It's because all your initial assumptions are wrong.......nothing to be big headed about getting them so wrong.
Best missing the point completely so far post...
[i]"Sorry fella but you do have a little room for improvement in the performance department..."[/i]
Thanks for trying to be tactful and not hurt my feelings while pointing out that I am slow, after I have mentioned several times how slow I am.
Best thought provoking post so far...
[i]"a) all the other riders in the races were milandstrailquestgrahams and riding different bikes"[/i]
Wow, can you imagine that ? A whole race full of MidlandTrailquestsGrahams. That really would be awesome.*
As I said, I used myself as an example because I'm slow.
I used racing as an example because it offers an opportunity to compare one bike and rider with another. Maybe I should have said that riding a bike that doesn't match the majority view on STW forum of how a bike should be set up doesn't prevent me from enjoying the scenery as much as other people.
* Before we get in to even more misunderstandings and accusations, this was satire. Or possibly self parody, I'm not sure. My language skills are at about the same level as my mountain biking skills, although my spelling and grammar are better than cynic al's.
MidlandTrailquestsGraham - MemberOK, I do mean to sound big headed. If that bothers you, stop reading now.
From various threads on this forum,it seems to be a common belief that...
29ers are no good on twisty singletrack
Fat people ride slowly
Tyres must be at least 2.2" wide and run at 20 - 30 psi for optimum grip
Hub gears are heavy and slow
Suspension should be professionally modified and adjusted to suit the rider
Bunnyhopping and other technical skills are essential
Bar ends should not be used with risers...so how come I, a 47 year old with a BMI of 28, riding a fully rigid Rohloff 29er with bar ends and risers and 45psi in the 2.0" tyres, who is unable to bunnyhop up a curb and gets off to walk the tricky bits, can consistently finish in the top half, usually in the top third and occasionally in the top quarter in races from 50km to 24 hours and currently be 5th in the Midland Trailquests Autumn League (did I mention I ride trailquests ?)
I even managed to get a top half finish in the Kona mash up after they'd sorted the timing shambles, when trail centres are really not my sort of thing.
Where are all these people with their perfectly suited and perfectly set up bikes and why do so many of them ride slower than me ?
Sorry, I think you need to reread your first post. I think you have missed your own point, not I!
What you have tried to say is that someone who does not fit into what you think is a commonly perceived stereotypical "fashionable" persona can perform at a more than respectable level - therefore making the argument that the qualities that constitutes the minimum requirements of a "proper" mountain biker (lithe body, riding a fully tuned bike with fat soft tyres) are null and void. Your assessment indicator for this argument was comparing your performance to others. Whilst I understand and even agree with elements of your argument, what I and many others have said is using your performance as proof does not really cut it as YOUR PERFORMANCE (note - I'm not calling you slow - lots of aspects make up performance inc fitness but also experience, skill level and equipment choice) is not all that great judged by standards I and others would consider worthy.
- now you are just changing the goal posts entirely 😆I used racing as an example because it offers an opportunity to compare one bike and rider with another. Maybe I should have said that riding a bike that doesn't match the majority view on STW forum of how a bike should be set up doesn't prevent me from enjoying the scenery as much as other people.
Slightly as an aside - I would suggest the "perfectly suited and perfectly set up bikes" you refute are just carefully considered purchases which the owner hopes will suit their preferred riding style and location - not unlike your own purchase! If you went into Halfords and said "Sir, give me your finest bike £500 can buy" it is very unlikely it would be a 2.5" tyred 750mm handlebared long travel hardtail as beloved my many on here. But neither would it be "a fully rigid Rohloff 29er with bar ends and risers and 45psi in the 2.0" tyres". Both are nichemongertastic - one fashionable to pseudo gnarr rad dudes and the other fashionable to the bearded trailquester 😉 and both the preserve of STW forum geeks obsessed with kit (please note I own or have owned bikes that happily fit into both these categories!). If you mainly ride trailquests your beardy bike is the best bike for the job so if you pass apparently fitter folks on their silly wide tyres & bars on your trailquest silky smooth forest tracks it's hardly surprising. Similarly if throwing yourself down blacks is your thing the beardy bike might be the reason you have a queue behind you and it would have been a more surprising statement if you had asked why others were so much slower than you in that environment.