Nice little video on a topic that comes up here regularly.
Not sure about the Master Driving Instructor's timing on his overtake though.
I think it'd be really good to have a few public safety type films for cycling based on the highway code. televised at prime time. kickstarter anybody?
[quote=ti_pin_man ]I think it'd be really good to have a few public safety type films for [s]cycling[/s] [b]all road users[/b] based on the highway code. televised at prime time. kickstarter anybody?
It's been getting shared on the old social media all morning which is the easy way for you to spread the message. Its bound to catch few of the misinformed out there.
Share away peeps
This was filmed last week with my local club, been waiting for it to pop up 😉
Not sure about the Master Driving Instructor's timing on his overtake though.
Someone mentioned that in the comments too, what isn't clear from the video is that it was filmed on a closed road test circuit and visibility is actually a lot better than the film makes it appear, it was supposed to demonstrate the amount of room to give, not get into the much deeper and longer* discussion about whether or not you should overtake at any given point on the road.
*Which is probably worth a film in it's own right and is sadly just as poorly understood by a lot of people 🙁
[b]BUTTHEYDONTPAYROADTAXSOTHEYDONTBELONGONTHEROADINTHEFIRSTPLACEANDTHEY
JUMPREDLIGHTSANDWEAVEINANDOUTANDGOTHEWRONGWAYUPONEWAYSTREETSANDRUN
DOWNOLDLADIESANDCYCLEONPAVEMENTSANDRIDETHREEABREASTANDTHEYSHOULDNT
EVENBEONETHEORADSCOSROADSAREFORCARSANYWAYANDTHEYDONTHAVEINSURANCEOR
MOTANDTHEYDONTHAVETOPASSANYTESTTOBEONTHEROADTHEYSHOULDHABVENUMBERPLATES
ONTHEMANDTHEPOLICESHOULDLOCKTHEMALLUPBLOODYLYCRALOUTSAREAMENACEALWAYS
IGNORINGOTHERSANDDELIBERATLEYHOLDINGTHEMUPKICKINGMYCARANDWRECKINGMYBUMPER
ANDGETTINGBLOODALLOVERMYPAINTWORKBUTWHENIHITTHEMITSMYFAULTANDIHAVETOPAY
THEBILLANDCLEANITUPANDWHERESTHEJUSTICEINTHATKILLEMALLISAYIWOULDIFICOULD[/b]
Was it wrong I was hoping for an out take of a dummy of CB to be hit whilst standing in the middle of the road talking to the camera? 😳
...it was supposed to demonstrate the amount of room to give, not get into the much deeper and longer* discussion...
Yeah I appreciate that.
It's always a bit of a danger when doing [i]"This is the RIGHT way to do it"[/i] videos.
I think it could have been improved with the driving instructor giving more of a commentary on his decision to pass.
e.g. [i]"I'm not going to pass here because there is a solid line on my side of the road and I don't have a clear view because of the hill and corner."
"Now the brow of the hill blocks my views so I'll wait a few more seconds."
"Okay now I can see that the road ahead is clear for a good distance, both in my lane and in the lane the cyclists will continue travelling in as I pass them. As always I check my mirrors and blindspot, then signal ..." [/i]etc etc
Though granted they may have needed a Master Driving Instructor with better presenting skills for that - that guy seemed very nervous.
I get where you're coming form Graham, but that wasn't the intended scope of the video, it was specifically about the amount of room and space to give cyclists, not a general look at overtaking.
I believe there is a sister video that should be released very shortly about groups/2-up riders, but I haven't seen that one yet, so may cover more of the 'when and when not to try and pass' aspect of it.
Though granted they may have needed a Master Driving Instructor with better presenting skills for that - that guy seemed very nervous.
I won't disagree with that!
they [s]may have[/s] needed a Master Driving Instructor with better presenting skills for that
I was being diplomatic 😀
(to be fair I'd be rubbish at presenting too so he has my sympathy)
And why did he indicate left?...
Is there any wonder the standard of driving is as it is?
And why did he indicate left?...
Seemed okay in the video.
i.e. in the video it was obviously just a "lane change indication" rather than a "about to slam on the brakes and turn left immediately after overtaking you" indication.
Nice idea but not helped by
Gesticulations from cyclist - just don't bother, its not worth it and doesn't impress the undecided folk
The very dull delivery
Other than that - great idea
Gesticulations from cyclist - just don't bother, its not worth it and doesn't impress the undecided folk
Not sure what you mean by that? Which gesticulations?
Very good but yes the Master Driving Instructor wasn't very clear.
"I'm not overtaking here as I can't see."
Well that and it's solid white lines so I hope not.
When he did overtake the perception on the filing was that was on a brow of a hill.
"I'm not overtaking here as I can't see."Well that and it's solid white lines so a hope not.
I noticed that too. The cyclists looked to be doing over 10mph too so that defence is out of the window.
tbh I find driving instructors to be generally quite shocking.
Speeding, using mobile phones, not signalling and a favourite of mine I see them do regularly by the beach is sitting in the passenger seat waiting on the phone waiting for their next pupil with the car stopped on double yellows with no loading marks.
in the crap driving clips, you can see the cyclist's gestures of (understandable) annoyance - but much better to avoid that IMO
(although I am not immune to the odd hand gesture, but have tried to grow up out of doing it!)
Ah right. I thought you meant signals for the peleton group which I'd missed.
To be fair it looks like the gestures shown were just "open palm in the air WTF?" signs which seem pretty justified given the footage.
Glad to see that the important message in this video is being completely lost amongst the frothing (mostly from fellow cyclists) about Boardman not wearing a helmet in the final shot. 🙄
*sigh*
GrahamS - Member
And why did he indicate left?...
Seemed okay in the video.
i.e. in the video it was obviously just a "lane change indication" rather than a "about to slam on the brakes and turn left immediately after overtaking you" indication.
I was taught by many sources that there should be no indication after an overtake...
Well it made it to the Guardian:
Public safety type films should not use phrases such as dynamic envelope.
Yeh the use of that phrase was completely unnecessary and would probably confuse some, plain language where possible is always better for the wider audience.
Also someone mentioned the double white lines, im sure most people have no idea what so ever what they signify, for tth sake of simplify and demonstration they should have chosen a stretch with broken lines.
Not a bad video overall though it could have been better thought out..
Nice idea, but I've got a pretty good idea of what scummy comments will appear underneath on FB/YT etc...
Only thing I thought wrong was how empty the road was that the driving expert demo'ed on. Pretty unrealistic scenario.
[edit]Just realised I've got a few videos on my youtube called "How not to overtake a cyclist" 😆
2nd vid out
[url= https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=OTGRQgw6PDA ]https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=OTGRQgw6PDA[/url]
Serious question, why do some cyclists choose to ride two abreast? Surely single file helps everyone.
A group of 8 cyclists riding single file, is 8cyclists long. That's quite a long 'vehicle'.
Doubled-up they're only 4 cyclists long.
Riding 2-up makes over-taking easier.
Serious question, why do some cyclists choose to ride two abreast? Surely single file helps everyone.
Also- forces the car driver to make full car-like overtake as opposed to trying to squeeze through a smaller lane 'gap'
Unless the road is very wide two abreast or single file you have to cross the white line so it has to be clear comming the other way so no difference. As above at least two abreast it reduces the length of the group. The worst groups I find to overtake are a large group that string out not splitting into two groups with a safe gap inbetween but stretched out 8 ft between each rider making over taking ver difficult.
Serious question, why do some cyclists choose to ride two abreast? Surely single file helps everyone
The fact that people still ask this question (along with why do cyclists ride out in the lane) just goes to show how poor we are at educating people about using the roads.
This is basic stuff that anyone who uses the road should have at some point come across this question/concept either in cycle training (formal or informal), driver training, or reading the highway code.
I'm sorry if that comes across as a dig at you robj20, it's really not meant to, more a disappointment that you've not had it explained in the past, and I'm glad you decided to ask and seek information as sadly a lot of people don't and remain ignorant, which I guess is the whole point of the videos!
Just watched the Side By Side video.
Not bad. Glad they made the point about cars [i]always[/i] being two-abreast even when they only contain a driver.
But I think this one is an even harder sell than the overtaking one. As robj20 (and plenty of other posters on this forum) demonstrates, even fellow cyclists are conflicted about whether riding two abreast is courteous or legal.
Yep, drivers just don't get this bit. Had one at the weekend - if you were single file I could have squeezed past you all. They don't seem to get that squeezing past in 1500+kg of fast moving metal is exactly what we're trying to avoid.
Although as also said, when the road is wide enough for a car to safely overtake a single line, we need to make the effort to single out AND space out to give cars chance to hop between the gaps. While we'd [u]prefer[/u] that they just waited until they could safely overtake full stop, they won't and I'd rather give a bit of space back than let them get frustrated, try to overtake 10 cyclists moving at 20mph, find they can't and either nearly have a head on or pull back in to a proximity where you could easily put your arm through their window.
Mmm had a conversation the other day with a neighbour. He was complaining about how cyclists shouldn't ride 2 abreast or how they shouldn't be out from the curb. Amazingly he cycles occasionally.
I also find that most driving instructors just want their client to past their test and not necessarily to learn to drive properly.
A couple of years ago I was driving behind a chap teaching someone young to drive, the learner overtook a cyclist as though he wasn't there, with no gap at all. I was so incensed that I followed them to their house. However I lost my nerve and couldn't bring myself to 'have a word', probably would have been given a mouthful. To this day I regret not being brave. It would have made the lad think twice.
My driving instructor tried to convince me to give less space when I overtook cyclists as he didn't think I should need to cross the lines. He got a right earful from me and subsequently thanked me for pointing it out and said he'd change his teaching in future.
every car driver should be forced to ride a bike in traffic once as part of their test.
ti_pin_man -completely agree.
My driving instructor tried to convince me to give less space when I overtook cyclists as he didn't think I should need to cross the lines. He got a right earful from me and subsequently thanked me for pointing it out and said he'd change his teaching in future.
Wow! Had he read the highway code atn all??? I'd have thought it would be something of a reference document for him...
My driving instructor tried to convince me to give less space when I overtook cyclists as he didn't think I should need to cross the lines
🙁
He got a right earful from me and subsequently thanked me for pointing it out and said he'd change his teaching in future
🙂
At least he listened, have had similar conversation with people before and they just argue back that they are right and carry on as before.
I've said it before but cycling well is harder than driving well because of these extra challenges of when it is good to ride two when not, when and how to break groups.
Amazing about that driving instructor.
I'm also seen learner drivers overtaking cyclists poorly - I'd say I'm surprised but I'm not, just disappointed. If it's too much for driving safely around cyclists to be made part of the normal driving test, then surely it should still be made part of the driving instructor test.
Wow! Had he read the highway code atn all??? I'd have thought it would be something of a reference document for him...
That's the trouble with [url= https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169 ]Rule 163[/url] being so vague and open to interpretation.
If it gave a [i]specific[/i] minimum safe passing distance (say 1.5 meters, as in other countries) then driving instructors would need to know and quote that distance, it could be in the theory test, and people could be failed for not observing it.
I have wondered why there are so many Think Bike.... adverts, without any Think Bicycle.... siblings.
[url=
n't be a ****er....[/url]
Thanks for posting OP.
I had to do a double take on the driving instructor though as I thought Greg Davies had made an appearance. Think it was the shirt more than anything
every car driver should be forced to ride a bike in traffic once as part of their test.
One year on a bicycle followed by a year on a motorbike before being allowed anywhere near a car. That's how it will be when i'm in charge.