Constantly - thats what keeps me safe. Defensive riding - assume everyone will do the most stupid thing possible and you won't be disappointed.
2 points from above - the person who nearly hit a car door. Defensive riding always ride more than a car door width from any parked cars - always look into parked cars to see if / what the occupants are doing
The person who had the woman walk out in front of him - Bell? Shout to let her know you are there?
Defensive riding is the key.
commuting to work back home there was only on set of corners i felt in danger on.
If anyone knows it, the road heading west out of Willington, South Derbyshire, past the council lorry depot/gravel pit? an over the dual carridgeway (A38?). Feking council lorries give you about 3inches before they pul in o you, add tot hat the morons coming off the dual carridgeway ad its a recipie for dissaster.
So on average could expect to very nearly end up in a hedge at least once a day (30 miles), 75% of those case on that same half mile of road.
Since moving down south im failry certain my lifes permenantly in danger, the standard of driving is absolutely shocking!
three times today. each time someone turning across me at lights. rode 30km into and around munich. unfortunately you are not allowed to ride on the road if cycle paths are provided. these cycle paths are ideal for families or those that pootle but build up any speed and it's not much fun.
you have two four lane road, parked cars then cycle path shared with pedestrians. so imagine
lane-lane-parked cars-bit of grass 1m wide-cycle lane/pavement
you are obscured by the parked cars and in germany your green light to cross comes on at the same time as for the cars travelling in the same direction as you wish to cross. cars have to give way to pedestrians and bikes but bikes move alot faster and are harder to see.
sometimes i prefer riding on road. in towns and cities it is better, i think, to be part of the traffic. in germany things are a little better than UK. drivers are for the most part more aware and forgiving of cyclists. probably because so many people cycle- almost everyone has at least one bike.
one main roads out of town there is more often than not a cycle path provided split from traffic and a normal lanes with wide. here it is not such a problem as you are more visible due to no parked cars.
FFS. Dont get me started again..
I very rarely feel like my life is in danger when I'm cycling on roads. I agree with TJ on this one. Ride defensive
I ride defensively and never ride near enough to a car door to get knocked of.
The main point of my original post was to try and get people to make some noise and get some media coverage sometheing like the anti drink driving campaigns they were pretty hard hitting and I'm sure they had some measurable affect
I stopped riding the A39 between Minehead and Bridgwater, because of the number of cars with caravans, riding along waiting for the driver who's forgotten that he's towing something that is wider than his car scares the sh1t out of me, and no amount of defensive driving will help.
On the way home tonight:
Had a guy approach the kerb/ road
Stop
Look in my direction (700 lumen light on bars, bright red jacket, flashing armbands)
Step off the pavement,
Suddenly realise I'm approaching,
Step back on the pavement
Step back off into my path when I was about 3 feet away 😕
I've never had a "life in danger" moment but every day I see motorists and pedestrians filled with perma-rage whenever they see a cyclist. There's a couple of points on my commute where I get off the bike and cross with the green man as the junctions are bedlam. Pushing the bike across the road and if you get in a pedestrians way you can see their blood boiling and the rage building.
Surely everyone had a bike as a child and remembers the fun? 😆
Very rarely, I ride to work daily from quiet roads onto busy city approach roads and through the city centre, I'd be a nervous wreck if I did. I think I may have done briefly several years ago when I was on the bonnet of a car waiting to break both my arms an ankle, and pop my shoulders out, but then the pain took away any anxiety. Generally I find darting down busy roads quite a buzz, it's the weather I hate.
I have seen some cocklike cycling on my way home and agree that defensive riding helps but doesn't make you invincible.
The cocklike behaviour I refer to was a hybrid cyclist who overtook me in that bravado fashion without a hello in a two wide queue of traffic (I was moving) and then tried to squeeze between a bus which was pulling out and a queuing car. Needless to say he nearly got squashed, had to stop and looked like a cock giving the rest of us a bad rep.
Sort it out if you ride like a cock.
I certainly feel a heightened sense of danger when on the road, mainly because of my vulnerability. When I reflect on some of the situations I've experienced, its not too many of them when I've actually been in serious danger, but it sure felt like it at the time.
As others have said, at junctions, pinch points etc. I now ride much more defensively, occupy more of the lane and ease off the pedals. Since I've conciously started doing this I feel a lot safer and have experionced fewer problems.
Sorry GNARGNAR, but I can't agree with you. The answer is not to spend enormous amounts of money putting cycle lanes everywhere. We need to encourage drivers and cyclists to coexist peacefully, because it is possible. If we all shrug our shoulders, accept that car is king and are marginalised, society as a whole loses out. We need more cyclists on the road so that drivers know what to do when they encounter one.
I think this is a difficult and complex issue – as a driver and cyclist I will suggest that in this instance I’m a road user, as the same principles apply. As TJ said it all about defensive road use, I ride in the same style as I drive. I watch the road (and pavement) well ahead, and that can be several hundred yards, assessing the risks and dangers. I position my self appropriately on the road and clearly single my intentions.
Yes while out on the bike I recognise my vulnerability and yes some drivers do seem to pass within millimetres of my elbow and yes they do do stupid stuff in front of me. Usually I’ve anticipated this.
However if as a group we want the respect of other road users, the public at large and policy makers the we have to clean up our act – stop jumping red lights, stop riding on pavements stop abusing other road users (yes even when they deserve it) and begin earning respect
GNARGNAR - Member
Footpaths.
40 people a year are killed by cars while on verges or pavements...
My question would be this
If you have had a crash involoving another vehicle whilst on a bike whose fault was it ?
i have yet to have a bike accident when it was my fault and I suspect that is the reality for the vast majority of us hence we sadly all need to be nervous on the roads
I don't get this commuting angst - I've ridden into the centre of Nottingham for 3 years now, had a few near misses but have never got stressed about it - I make errors as a rider and as a car driver, so do others. I might swear under my breath, but the one time I did "have a word" it was a waste of my time and breath.
I make sure I'm well lit and visible, I ride assertively but [u]never[/u] aggressively, I assume that everyone else is an idiot who doesn't expect a cyclist to travel at 15-20 mph, but I never feel any more in danger on the bike than I do in the car when commuting.
Do some people set themselves up with a victim mentality and it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
And before you all start, two friends of mine have been killed while cycling, I fully understand the risks, believe me.
Wot swadey said. I had to go into town today and had the choice of car, bus or bike. I took the bike. If I thought my life was in danger, I wouldn't have.
Is this a familiarity thing? Do those that do lots of road miles just feel more comfortable?
[i]Do some people set themselves up with a victim mentality and it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.[/i]
I used to do this. I've stopped now, I feel way better.
🙂
GNARGNAR - Member
Footpaths.
miketually - Member40 people a year are killed by cars while on verges or pavements...
Yes, and I think the number of cyclists killed on the road is in the high hundreds is it not?
No, GNARGNAR, its not. 137 in 2007. Still 137 too many, mind. 1432 car users, 646 pedestrians and 588 motorcyclists in the same year. Do these stats make you think about whether we should try to change peoples attitude towards road safety?
The days when cars and bikes could share the roads are long gone.
I agree totally. Not sure why everybody else is having a go at you. The obvious solution being to ban cars from the roads.
RichPenny - Member
No, GNARGNAR, its not. 137 in 2007. Still 137 too many, mind. 1432 car users, 646 pedestrians and 588 motorcyclists in the same year. Do these stats make you think about whether we should try to change peoples attitude towards road safety?
RichPenny -Sorry GNARGNAR, but I can't agree with you. The answer is not to spend enormous amounts of money putting cycle lanes everywhere. [b]We need to encourage drivers and cyclists to coexist peacefully[/b], because it is possible. If we all shrug our shoulders, accept that car is king and are marginalised, society as a whole loses out. We need more cyclists on the road so that drivers know what to do when they encounter one.
I dont object to what you're saying - I just know it wont happen, or cant happen in the current climate. I simply cannot see any way that what you're suggesting can happen.
For a period last year when fuel was a bit more realistically priced people seemed to drive slower, a bit more considerately and actually leave their car at home for the 800m school run - unless that also corresponded with the 15 hours of cyclists being loved during the Olympics.
A vast majority of cyclists put themselves at risk. I won't even try to claim you all do but I don't believe everybody here knows the ins and outs of assertive cycling.
Get trained, swallow your pride and learn from a really good instructor. Your council might be even running a scheme to cover the cost, mine does. Get a trainer to go through the entire National Standard with you, level 1 to 3, step by step. Take your time and you'll rip the benefits.
I ride my bike on the streets of London and Middlesex with a baby at the back quite a lot. Quiet roads, busy roads, all of them. I'm not a genius, but I know what I'm doing.
And get trained to ride a motorbike. I'll sharpen your mind in no time.
Do some people set themselves up with a victim mentality and it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
so the drivers see something in their body language and think, "I've got to get [b]THEM[/b]!" ?
The obvious solution being to ban cars from the roads.
it was a retrograde step when they stopped having to have a man walking in front with a red flag 🙁
A vast majority of cyclists put themselves at risk
we should have known it was all our fault:-(
Simon, haven't you ever seen anybody with a big hood on, headphones on and a can of Stella in hand cycling down an A road?
Simon, haven't you ever seen anybody with a big hood on, headphones on and a can of Stella in hand cycling down an A road?
no, but I don't get out much. But surely that's not typical ?
it was a can of cider actually.....
do admit i ride with big fegg off head phones on sometimes, keeps my ears warm. not too loud mind...
headphones on
does this imply deaf people can be killed with impunity ? I'm not sure how being able to hear helps, you may hear a vehicle behind, but you cannot tell if it's going to hit or just overtake...
Trouble with the UK as i see it are the roads are narrow and very full of cars, so i cant ever see it getting better so its always a risk, at least on an MTB there are few cars on the trails!!!!
Having said that i live in Christchurch NZ the rds are a lot wider usually with a cycle lane + a hard shoulder and generally fewer cars. BUT drivers still get pissed off with cyclist and complain that they are an inconvienience (which is valid sometimes when you come up behind a bunch 3 wide and spread out) so its the same the world over - car big, bike small it will never get better.
I was thinking on the way in this morning. I never filter on the inside of cars in town/city. Never. If its a line of traffic I will go up and over and if the traffic sets off prematurely I'll ride parrallel then slot back in. If its not possible I will sit a cars length behind the last car in the centre of the car. I feel going up and over naturally meets a car drivers eyeline/field of vision whereas in righthand drive cars on lefthand lanes you naturally DONT look to the inside do you?
filtering is too dangerous IMO- cars cut in due to checking to their right/obstacles.
Ride safe (cheesy Americanism!)
OK - an example from this morning's commute
Had my closest near miss for ages - van pulled out in front of me, his mate followed without looking and stopped inches from my back wheel.
I was shocked. I was angry. I shouted a word that has no place in a public space at 7.10am so loudly I shocked myself (apologies, residents of Ilkeston town centre). I was full of adrenalin for the rest of the commute.
Did I fear for my life the rest of the commute? No
Am I fearing riding home tonight? No
apologies, residents of Ilkeston town centre
LOL, I'm sure they have heard worse!
Is Ilkeston like Todmorden? If so surely Swadey would only have offended husbands of daughters and brothers of Wives? 8)
[i]Had a guy approach the kerb/ road
Stop
Look in my direction (700 lumen light on bars, bright red jacket, flashing armbands)[/i]
Perhaps they were blinded by your 700 lumen light - I'd imagine most cars drivers are too. Yes you need to be seen but you also need to be careful you're not blinding other road users.
For the type of riding I do, parked cars are the biggest hazard. I got knocked off my bike once by someone opening their door - I just heard a bang, next thing I know I am lying on the road on my back, facing the way I had just come, with my bike about two metres away. I was clipped slightly and went over the bars. I was lucky not to be more seriously injured, but now I scan cars for occupants and give them a wide berth. Defensive cycling is definitely the key.
I do get the impression that most drivers do not enjoy driving however, and are in a state of continuous borderline anger and frustration. How else to explain the compulsive desire to accelerate madly out of one set of lights, only to brake ten metres down the road at the next set of lights. .
Do I feel like my life is in danger when I'm riding on the road? Yes, frequently, but there's also the rational part of my mind which reminds me that very few people die while cycling, and that if I stopped doing it my quality of life would decline.
I'm pretty sure that roads get safer as more people cycle. If people stop cycling out of fear, it'll only make the roads more dangerous.
you may hear a vehicle behind, but you cannot tell if it's going to hit or just overtake...
I find that I can. Not that any have ever hit me to find out, but I can usually tell if someone's going to pass too close by the engine noise. You can also tell if it's going to be a bigger vehicle, which is useful if you're approaching a narrowing in the road.
Did I fear for my life the rest of the commute? No
the question was "do you feel your life is in danger whilst road cycling". To which I say, yes, most of the time. Fear doesn't come into it. I'm not scared of dying. I may die today, but it's unlikely.
I dont ride on the road, far too dangerous, I ride on the pavement, yes...the pavement. And f*ck anyone who takes offense. I'd rather risk a £30 fine than my life. 99% of my riding is off road so I'm not willing to risk 1% on some **** driving into me. A local cyclist was knocked down and killed on Christmas eve in Enfield whilst riding on the road, so f*ck anyone who thinks I shouldnt protect myself. F*ck 'em all.
Been commuting daily in London for 11+ years now. I think drivers have got more aware of cyclists - there are a hell of a lot of bike commuters on the road in rush hour these days - wall to wall fluoro yellow)
I guess once or twice a week I have *proper* "Oh Sh!t" moments, Usually from drivers on the phone, or ones who haven't clicked that a bike can go at more than 5mph.
One of the joys (for want of a better word) of London commuting is that the traffic is moving so slowly that the fastest thing on the road is generally me. That give me a LOT more control over the situation. Not sure if I ride defensively, or offensively, but it's definitely about taking control over the situation and making the drivers do what you want them to.
I do a bit of "proper" road riding too. I do tend to stay away from main roads unless they're necessary. The idea of riding on a 70mph dual carriageway A-road really doesn't appeal.
[i]how often do you feel your life is in danger whilst road cycling[/i]
very, very rarely. a lot of annoyances that often make me a bit shouty, but can only think of three notable incidents ( involving vehicles two due to poor driving, one deliberate attempt to skim me) and one with a pothole that have damaged me, kit or bike over 10 years/50000 miles.
caveat: very little city riding in there - work on the western edge of Edinburgh and commuted to Linlithgow/Burntisland, mainly on A-class roads and dual carriageway.
i avoid cycle lanes / segregated facilities at all costs. no safer than the roads IME.
if the UK was really serious about safety for all road users it should:
a) be much harder to obtain a driving licence
b) be much, much easier to lose it
Just got in to work after my daily commute in..........only felt in danger three times this morning which isnt bad. I just hope the silly b*tch who pulled out right in front of me and then took the next left cutting me up feels offended all day - "fkn ugle bint" was all I could shout at her whilst trying to catch my breath, I dont think I've ever used that phrase before, but she was and it felt good!
The taxi driver trying to pull out of side road was just a complete kn*b the way he was expecting me to stop so he could join main road i was on. Fk him i thought, not worth the trouble
By the time the two attractive female students stepped off the pavement infront of me I was ready for anything so a quick 'aye aye' making thenm jump and squeal put me in a good mood for the day ahead!
Cant wait for return journey!!
Like TJ and Swadey said, you've got to assume that everyone on the road is an idiot. Think for them. In a strange way it's almost a sixth sense that you develop. I even ride with headphones on and rarely feel threatend. However there is *no* mitigation against the dickhead speeding along either texting or on the phone and ploughing into you.
Mr Agreeable - Member
...but there's also the rational part of my mind which reminds me that very few people die while cycling, and that if I stopped doing it my quality of life would decline.I'm pretty sure that roads get safer as more people cycle. If people stop cycling out of fear, it'll only make the roads more dangerous.
well put - was hopeful that last years rise in cycle commuting and higher numbers would assist
find it hard to reconcile - as for example i rarely ride the Woodhead pass (sheffield/Manchester) road though is a convenient loop as drivers are far too impatient and the risk seems high relative to the reward (or lack of it)
was sort of surprised last year did a ride into Barmouth on road - wet and windy and the think it is the A470 and it is the only road route - saturday afternoon holiday traffic on a road not wide enough for cars to easily pass - was repeatedly passed close and cut back in on - including by many cars loaded with bikes - can only assume people who never ride on the road because it is too dangerous!
- as well as the aggressive don't care about anyone else (car/bike or ped) drivers we now have a generation that was driven everywhere and has never ridden a bike on the road driving - i'm sure many believe that since there are cycle paths - bikes don't belong on the road and if it is a hassle to pass safely then it is the cyclists fault for putting themselves in danger
back to original post - awareness and consideration are the key issues - but that will mean a big change in attitudes
As well as [list]SMIDSY's[/list] you also get [list]BIGAB's[/list] (But I've Got A Bike), who seem a bit affronted when I ask them if they'd like me to go home, get my car and a spare bike, put them on it and then cut them up/ pull across them/ squeeze them into the kerb (delete as applicable) that they just did to me.