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Hi,
As the title?
Today I did 75miles with a pair of mates who are faster than me. I managed 14mph, they managed 16mph- it takes an hour to get to theirs and we separated half an hour from home and I was pooped.
My road bike is an old alloy Cannondale synapse in 61cm. It's 11kg with pedals, bottle cages, mudguards, gell bar tape, wide handle bars, 1kg of sprung brooks saddle rack and lights. Oh and I could lose 5kg of chub if I could stay off the biscuits.
It has lightish 1500g wheels and fast rolling Vittoria 25c tyres.
Any new bike would have similar amounts of tat applied to it.
If I bought a cheap ish carbon bike, think 105 and bottom level carbon frame, would it make any/ much difference to how tired I am at the end of a ride?
Would an aero road bike be any easier at those sorts of speed.
Or should I just harden up by doing more fast miles? They were giving me grief for spending time mountain biking and wanting to go slow on the climbs to ride fast on the dh. It was mostly a joke!
I'm never going to do any road racing, I do the odd 140 mile ride and my mate is trying to convince me to do a 200 miles in a day event. This is unlikely to happen, as I don't have the time to train for it.
Thanks for any suggestions.
The first thing you have to define, is what "Better" means...
Lighter
Faster rolling
More comfortable.
Like me - you'll probably get better results by concentrating on the chub
As far as you like and as fast as you like. Only you can decide if it’s worth it.
IIRC meaningful aero benefits kick in from ~15mph and become increasingly beneficial.
Was it a fairly hilly ~75 mile ride to give that average, or like me, are you out of practice/habit of doing longer rides?
As I've found this year, hills are so much more energy draining when I've been 6Kg+ heavier than my typical weight for tackling hills since Feb, especially in combination with fitness loss.
New bikes are often nice, but you might get more benefit out of a nice turbo trainer that doesn't get used as a clothes drier over the winter, if you don't already have one.
If you want a new bike and can afford it, go and buy one
Do you think your riding buddies were just fitter and/or riding more often?
Or was their advantage purely technological?
IME, some days you average more than others on the road, mainly due to your current physiological condition. I'm not significantly faster on the carbon ego waggon or the steel/mudguards/dynamo hub, shod winter bike on the same local loops TBH. One is just a bit easier in places than the other conserving a wee bit of energy to be applied elsewhere.
I reckon (unscientific opinions ahead) all the aero and lightweight toys you can buy might gain you 1-2mph Avg over a given loop perhaps, but then so might a bit of 'training' whatever that entails for you.
Most useful thing I've found (personally) in terms of equipment is usable climbing gears, if I can climb comfortably rather than waste energy grunting uphill, even if it's slower, I of course recover faster and have more in the tank for the flats.
“Don’t ride upgrades ride up grades” it’s an old one but it’s true.
So yes buying a new carbon bike will no doubt feel better and encourage you to get out more. It won’t make you faster. The only thing that will make you faster is getting the miles in.
Personally I would get the new bike and crack on through the winter on the old bike getting fitter. Come spring jump on the new bike you will be fitter it will feel fast and you will be faster.
For laziness I'll define 'better' as 'lighter'.
My 8kg summer bike motivates me a lot more than my 10kg winter bike. It's no more aero and 8kg isn't really light by anyone's standards, but it feels light, even if only for the first couple of pedal strokes etc. and that makes it just a more motivating bike to ride.
I suspect though that if it was my only bike I'd not enjoy that benefit as much. Keep the 11kg bike as winter/day-to-day bike and get something spendy and light for big days out and summer afternoon training rides? You'll probably not end up much faster but it might feel more fun.
Some of my favourite rides this year have been short sunny lunch-time segment chasers on the 'good' road bike. It's worth having for those rides alone.
The least aero thing on the bike is you. Work on that first, both position and clothing. Benefits of weight on bike is going to depend on terrain, but again, the biggest anchor is the person sat on it. Aero gains on the bike itself are generally expensive and come with the least gains.
I average 16mph on my steel singlespeed, 18-19 mph on a carbon road bike with mostly Dura Ace.
So one end f the spectrum to the other is about 3mph. It mostly depends on the rider.
The posh bike is better in a race though, no way I could sustain 25mph+ in a group on the ss!
as a percentage of the overall, considering you are going to stick with...
pedals, bottle cages, mudguards, gell bar tape, wide handle bars, 1kg of sprung brooks saddle rack and lights. Oh and I could lose 5kg of chub
HTFU
but you deserve a new bike
oh and i guess I will let you off the pedals bit 🙂
mudguards, gell bar tape, wide handle bars, 1kg of sprung brooks saddle rack and lights. Oh and I could lose 5kg of chub
This is what slowing you down, and if you get a better bike and put all that stuff back on it really isn't going to make you any quicker. But new bikes are nice.
I've just replaced old and worn 32mm Giant Crosscut Road tyres with 37mm Continental Speed Contacts on mrs_oab's bike.
They lost instant 5-600g of rotating weight. They far more supple and comfy. I reckon she's instantly 1-2mph faster and finds its quicker to accelerate.
0 miles and 0 mph.
Keep the synapse, buy a nice 105 equipped bike. Upgrade the wheelset to 55mm carbons. Do not bolt on all that junk. Keep it clean, tiny saddle bag, out front garmin mount
Then just ride it. Keep off the pies and try to lose 1kg a month. This both achievable and sustainable. 14mph is steady but gives you a base tp build on to get you up in 16-17mph which is where the funzone is.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Better= less knackered at the end. Current bike is comfy, bum is fine. Hands are a bit buzzed but fine.
Exactly. But if over a ride like this it makes no difference, then it's not worth. If it makes a tiny difference and I have to maintain another bike, it's not with it.
It was rolling. So 2400ft. There is a bit of flat but mostly shallow up and downs. Most of my rides are 2 to 4 hours on the MTB, 8 to 20 miles on much hillier stuff and stop start. I have done very few consistent speed road rides this summer.
Yes a turbo probably would be exactly the right thing. I've tried turbo training and it is not for me
My mates are definitely fitter than me. They spend their time road riding, I spent quite a bit of time on the MTB
@<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">aberdeenlune</span>
“Don’t ride upgrades ride up grades” it’s an old one but it’s true
As I vaguely planned a new bike this was in the back of my mind 🙂
I noticed one mates back was almost entirely horizontal when he is tucked on the bottom of the drops. My position is is not where near this. Reasonably close fitting jacket and tights.
Getting a new bike makes me feel better, but it doesn't make a huge amount of difference to my performance. Riding more and eating less will do that bit if I ever get round to it.
I'm confused...
Today I did 75miles with a pair of mates who are faster than me. I managed 14mph, they managed 16mph- it takes an hour to get to theirs and we separated half an hour from home and I was pooped.
How did you manage to do 75miles with them going at different speeds?
Or do you mean speed of the lead man?
But moving onto more important things ...
do a 200 miles in a day event. This is unlikely to happen, as I don’t have the time to train for it.
You did train for it. You just did a 75 mile ride. Go for it. 🙂
2400 is pretty flat over 75 miles. You’d be a little quicker on a lighter, more aero bike, but losing the chub will be the biggest gain.
People obsess over "justification" of their purchases, as if anyone elses opinion actually really matters...
If you want a new bike and can afford it, go and buy one
Basically, this...
Don't get yourself into financial difficulty chasing marginal gains FFS, but the number of people I see "making do" with old bikes that they're not happy on or particularly suitable because they're more scared of what their peers will think of them spending a significant amount of (their expendable money) on a new bike, staggers me at times! I know people that will spend £50k on a new car that gets them to work and back and they have no passion for cars, but cycling is their hobby but they will keep their 10yr old bike running on a shoestring budget! 🤷🏻♂️
Life is short... Buy the damned bicycle!
@thegenralist
I rode 5miles -steady- to one mates house. Then we rode 4 miles -quite steady- to 2nd mates house. Then together for 50 miles. Then I was gubbed and went straight back to mine- slowwwww. And they rode home.
So 75 for me and 62 for one of the others. Third is not on Strava, I think he did 70.
People obsess over “justification” of their purchases,.
Yep.
Life is short… Buy the damned bicycle!
If it's going to make a tiny difference, I might as well spend the same money on something else shiny 🙂
If your existing bike is sorted in terms of riding position, well maintained and running some decent low rolling resistance tyres, changing your bike won't make much difference ime
Even aero gains will by very small if you are riding in a group.
It's just about fitness, practice and skills. Joining a club helps.
There's a good video on GCN+ where they do some pretty scientific analysis of a Triban and a Pinarello. They got 2-3kph more out of the Pinarello, like for like.
But some aero bars on the Triban, plus some good tyres cut than down to about 1kph I think. Over a fairly short flat 5km TT course.
If you subscribe, worth a watch.
Sort position on the current bike, get some decent tyres, and make sure drivetrain and wheels are in good mechanical order. after that it’s fitness. The bike makes little difference assuming it is setup properly.
That's a pretty flat ride. I find that dropping a couple of pounds of bike weight makes next to no difference to my average speeds. Being fitter, pushing harder and being more aero in my riding position (stretched out, lower) does a bit. I'd guess you won't actually gain much at all from a new bike without putting in a lot of miles up hills. But new bikes are nice so why not?
I'm tempted to buy a new road bike, I wouldn't be able to make massive weight savings without spending beyond what I would be comfortable with but I could definitely improve my comfort. I can currently only run a 28c non tubeless tyre so being able to go over 30 and tubeless would be a big improvement. I think an aero bike is unlikely to make a big difference unless you're willing to adjust your riding position.
A new bike won't make you faster, but it might motivate you more.
Also, you could buy a new one, stick your old one on a smart trainer, and try to get fitter in time for spring.
When was the last time you rebuilt the bike, new chain and cassette, full clean and regrease? That can make a bike feel like new ime
I manage to kill the cranks so it's had new cranks and a solid drive chain service 2 months ago.
It had a new rear rim 4 months ago, I checked all the bearings then.
It just always feels like it could be bigger!
Treated myself to a new Giant Defy advanced Pro2 a few years back as I fancied a nice “best” road bike to add to my old SCR commuting bike. Not a huge upgrade I admit but there. Rode to work on the new bike, felt great and very fast and seemed to accelerate quicker than the old clunker. Guess what, times were identical to my old bike. Still have both bikes but riding the Defy always feels a treat.
There are plenty of ways to improve if improve means getting back home less knackered, or rather not such a difference to your mates.
1st thing - you are already doing....riding with people better than you! No better way to get fitter.
2nd - road craft. Work on coming out of corners faster so you are not having to accelerate to catch back up with others with more skill. Getting really tucked in behind the lad in front. Like really close. Keep a eye on the wind direction to know which side to echelon out. Don't come through so hard when going to the front. Freewheel up to junctions/lights rather than getting there early and having to accelerate way from a complete stop. Don't go so hard into the red up a hill that you are stuffed over the top and constantly building up a pooped debt to your fitter friends.
3rd get sneaky! - soft pedal when on the front or take a short turn when knackered.
4th shed the pies
Then relax ad let it come. This is not the time of year to get anal about new bikes. It is definitely not the time of year for shedding guards etc to focus on weight. I know its a bit old school but this is the time of year to be riding miles at a steady pace and building endurance...oh and trying not to fall off and mess up your plans completely.
It's surprising how fast your garden variety roadman is imho - at least I often think so getting passed by them when I'm out bimbling. Guys who don't race, or really have much interest in performance cycling at all, seem to be able to tap out 16/17 avg for a long time.
I think it's just it's own thing you learn to do once you've got the miles under your belt and have the mindset for it - it will always feel hard if you're just dipping your toe in the water regardless of what bike you're on. Agree with others, though, that a new road bike can be its own motivation (and is less subject to changing fashions that a mtb so should last you).
Best way to be faster even on a average bike is to train.....get yourself a wahoo kickr or similar...forget zwift get something like Road grand tours and do the mountains surely 1.5hrs up mountains are better than 1hr on flat roads . If your ain ride is Sunday then do the T days for training so you'll get a rest day in between.
My road bike is sworks venge...Great bike especially for long straights ..I tend to go slower uphill and use the energy for the flattish roads...in all it gives me a better average speed ....but in all , don't ride so hard that it isn't enjoyable anymore...find your fun factor and don't forget to load up with cards during the ride so you don't bonk....Happy riding
I bought a new 'Cross bike in Jan. Cost to change from what I had was ridiculous. its got tubs, etap and weighs 500g less than the old one. It's made zero difference to my results but it gives me a boner.
Moral of story, if want a new bike, get one.
The synapse has a reputation as being a decent comfy bike. I new bike won’t make you faster - to begin with. Maybe consider components starting with wheels. Just make sure you can change the spline if your current group set is 10/11 speed as road groups are hurtling towards 13/14 speed.
People obsess over “justification” of their purchases, as if anyone elses opinion actually really matters…
If you want a new bike and can afford it, go and buy one
Basically, this…
This is the opposite of what ervyone is saying over on the SUV thread🤣
11kg with pedals, bottle cages, mudguards, gell bar tape, wide handle bars, 1kg of sprung brooks saddle rack and lights. Oh and I could lose 5kg of chub if I could stay off the biscuits.
The determining factor for speed is power output, aero and IME, tyres. You can improve power output by getting your position dialled. You can improve aero by getting your position sorted. But then you still have to be comfortable pedalling the thing for 5 hours if that is the usage you want to get out of it. Saddles are personal. I'll limit my comment to that I'd hate to try and get an aero position on a Brooks.
If I bought a cheap ish carbon bike, think 105 and bottom level carbon frame, would it make any/ much difference to how tired I am at the end of a ride
Bottom level carbon frames aren't necessarily better than alloy.
75 miles is a good ride. If you did that out of the blue, you've done a good effort. Amazingly, getting used to that distance will see you improve.
So yes buying a new carbon bike will no doubt feel better and encourage you to get out more. It won’t make you faster.
It will. Obviously being super fit is going to make a lot more difference, but it's ridiculous to think that people don't know this.
What the OP is really wondering is if faster bikes make you go faster. Well, they do a bit, yes. Lots of little things contribute to make a bike faster.
A new bike won’t make you faster, but it might motivate you more.
Not sure motivation was stated as an issue but no a a 1-2kg lighter bike will not make any difference over a flat 75 miles as you are talking about a 2% wight difference I would guess.
75 miles is a good distance but 14mph average is on the slow side and I can't see the bike being the cause and you are not going to be going 16mph with just a bike change.
Thanks again for all the suggestions!
Great point on the road craft. They both gain a church of distance at every junction. I back off the power of stop pedaling and they pedal through. I have never felt comfortable finding the cornering limits on my road bike. There was one section of medium tight sweeping corners. If we had been off road I would have been quicker than them. On the road they gained loads of distance on me. I guess I'll just have to practice this the same way I got better off road by sessioning corners.
I did some soft pedaling on the front. 😜
Shedding pies has been a long term goal. I've maintained my weight for 5 years and am a wee bit below the long term average.
Yes a turbo is an effective answer. I've tried it and haaaated it. I'd rather do an hour in 1 degree sideways rain than get a turbo again. I tried a spinning class. It was better than a turbo. But not enough to go a second time.
I've not seen anything that I'm that "excited" about to forgive the actual tiny difference in reality. Maybe I spend more time looking for a paint job I love!
@ sparksmcguff
I paid £300 s/h for the synapse pre covid. It's already got a light ish 1500g set of wheels that were almost the same price as the whole bike 🙂
It's a nice frame. Much stiffer than my previous road bike. That was a bottom of the range steel road bike from 2000. I do wonder how much difference the frame will make- hence this whole post. I guess the only way to find out is get a demo. Except is tricky to find XXL demo bikes at any time.
I'm really wondering if spending on a "nicer" bike will make much difference to how tired I am at the end of a ride.
My legs are pretty much fine this morning, but that's after heat packs and a massage.
I’ve done quite a bit of testing on multiple different bikes….
My fastest bike was my Canyon Aeroad. Around my local crit circuit it was just about 1.5mph faster than my Trek Domane. The circuit has hills (short), very fast downhills into fast flowing corners and two fast straights. Riding both bikes with the same pedal based power meter had the Aeroad noticeably faster. (60mm wheels with 25mm tyres vs 37mm wheels), Aeroad is 7kg and the Domane is 9kgs.
Anecdotally I also think my Aeroad is faster than my Trek Emonda SLR, but I’ve not ran them head to head. Around the Crit circuit I’m between 21 and 23mph average speed solo.
So I do think a new bike would be faster, but at your speed it’ll be a fairly small improvement. You’ll still feel beaten up until your fitness increases.
The synapse is also an endurance bike, probably quite high at the front. If you get a carbon bike with similar geometry then you won’t get much speed help, deep wheels and fast tyres will give you an improvement, but it might not be as big as you’d hope.
I think my Aeroad is quicker due to being so low at the front, 38mm bars and then the 60mm wheels.
Strangely my fastest bike up a 1000 foot climb with very steep sections is my Domane….but that’s down to the 50/34 and 11/32 vs the 53/39 and 11/28 on my Aeroad.
It’s a nice frame. Much stiffer than my previous road bike. That was a bottom of the range steel road bike from 2000. I do wonder how much difference the frame will make- hence this whole post.
Re this point - I honestly believe the whole 'stiffer = more efficient' thing from bands is overrated. If you're a sprinter it matters. For the rest of us and especially anyone riding longer distances then I think there's a balance to be had. What you've seen is the sort of gain you get from the basics to half decent and from here in it's diminishing returns. Much of the perception of stiffer frames being faster may be the feedback response, being more direct when you go for it, but I don't believe that translates to anything significant over a whole ride unless you're bunch racing and maintaining position all the time.
All in all the frame will make no realistically measurable difference if the one you have already fits well and is half decent. Your position on it, not wearing a baggy waterproof, some good quality 28mm tyres and aero rims will be easier gains.
Hate turbo training? Same here which is a shame as I've had some really good results from turbo plans in the past. Try running maybe. I wasn't a fan but time dictated it and after easing in and switching to cross-country rather than pavement I quite enjoy it. Suprising how much gain I've seen in my climbing from a hilly run 1x a week over 6 months, av 45 mins. Time-efficient. If you can already ride 75 miles at 14mph your base fitness must be ok. A bit of HI and strength work on top is useful.
tricky to find XXL demo bikes at any time.
Surprised nobody has picked up on this. Unless your mates are leviathans too, you'll be giving them a much better tow than they will you. Makes the comments about aero position even more important IMHO.
So I do think a new bike would be faster
Apart from the OP is not talking about getting an Aeroad with 60mm wheels but talking about a cheap carbon frame with 105 kit that may be 1kg lighter than the Synapse.
Changing an Alu frame for a cheap carbon frame but with the same mudguards, rack, lights etc,. on it is going to make sod all difference to how tired someone is after a ride.
I would be tired after a 75 mile ride as it is not a distance I do. I ride at 18mph for up to 30 miles but never do more than 30 miles so if I did 75 I would be slower overall and more tired I imagine. Training would be the answer not a 500g? lighter frame
I’m not sure exactly what you did - ride for an hour then meet people who hadn’t been riding then for four more hours and split up because then you couldn’t keep up or drive an hour to get to your mates start out on a long ride together where they were consistently 2mph faster than you and they dropped you? Or were they stopping and resting regularly and you were catching up and setting off with no or minimal rest?
Either way, I wouldn’t spend an hour getting somewhere to ride with mates on road bikes unless we were literally going to ride together as a group - which means their average speed and mine would be pretty much the same. For me it’s different on MTB where either it’s about the technical trail or the scenery (or if you are very lucky both) but for a typical road bike not so much. I also think fitter riders have very poor appreciation of the stop and rest while fat lad at the back catches up issue both mentally and physically for the one at the back.
A final thought - how good are you, compared to the others, at riding in a close pack. If you are never on their wheel properly and they are on your wheel - you are doing more work than them. Might be worth focussing on getting maximum “tow” out of them.
I think you should quit your job.
You won't have the money to buy a new bike and you'll have a lot more time to spend training.