If John said we all had to wear pink frilly leotards in the race next year then we would all have to.
It's his race, he decides what's in and what's out.
Everyone who eneters knows this and abides by it.
If you turn up on a bike, (like the on one mentioned) which is marketted as a mountain bike 29 er frame then expect folks to recognise it as such and ask for you to be publically flogged as the rule bending pedant you would so obviously be!!
as the rule bending pedant you would so obviously be!!
But I wouldn't be breaking the rules.
It's his race, he decides what's in and what's out.
Everyone who eneters knows this and abides by it.
I've seen a similar recumbent attitude applied to the ownership of this forum, yet in fact it's a two way process as if an organiser allows their hubris too much licence then participants would fall away, and a frilly leotard cyclocross would probably be far less popular (or perhaps not ??)
as the rule bending pedant you would so obviously be!!
one might suppose the rule bender to be [b]less[/b] pedantic than the enfocer...
As said before John Rawnsley has run the race 48 times it's his race and he works hard to run it and it is over subscribed.He makes the rules if you don't like it start your own event involving dozens of volunteers and mountain rescue folk and har working dales farmers who allow us on their land.It's a cx race for cx bikes .I assume a 29er or 700cer or whatever you call them are a bit different more able to take abig hit or whatever and as such are not allowed .This is probably why flat bars are now banned to stop cheats easily entering a bastardised mtb.Anyway hundreds of us love it the way it is and have bought cross bike for it .It is usually the only cross race I do each year.
This is probably why flat bars are now banned to stop cheats easily entering a bastardised mtb
and yet as I understand it an MTB would be less suited to the race so in fact they are merely voluntarily handicapping themselves ? Unless their motive were merely to subvert the purity of the cyclomasterrace ?
An mtb would be quicker on the rough downhill bits it depends how fast you can ride one on the road and carry it up mountains I suppose
.I assume a 29er or 700cer or whatever you call them
They are the same thing, i.e. they are what come on a road bike, cyclocross bike, 29er MTB etc. The fact that you don't know the difference is my whole point.
it's his race
Not it's not. The race belongs to the competitors. John is merely the guy who organises it. The obvious argument is that there is enough demand right now for there not to be any point/need to change the rules. But if cycling evolves (and that's the real question here, because as far as I can tell, the UCI is dead keen on not allowing technology to flourish in the road/cyclo-cross scene) then the event will eventually have to evolve with it. Or become anachronistic.
If you applied the same rule logic that everyone here is making for the Three Peaks event to say, another oft cited event like Formula One, then Formula One would actually be a vintage car rally and something else would be Formula One.
** sighs **
It won't fade away because people like doing it on cross bikes, it gets harder and harder to enter every year. Actually you're completely correct it's become anachronistic and won't be ever run again.
Now, are you happy?
But if cycling evolves
I'd have it as fashion rather than evolution. Bikes may have become a little lighter and some components better made, but I don't think this is actually very important to their use.
it gets harder and harder to enter every year
how much is it oversubscribed ?
except that I couldn't care less and just enjoy the fun of watching all the die hards crawl out from under their rocks to plead for the status quo
Nice to see you admitting you are just trolling.
Nice to see you admitting you are just trolling
what interests me is the kind of things people will say to comprise their argument
I've been trying to think of a metaphor to use to describe arguing with sfb over this subject, but simply can't picture anything as gently yet persistently as utterly soul destroying...
Or become anachronistic
Which means its not at the moment as its run using the rules laid down by the UCI and which are used for the current world championships. If they banned disk brakes for example then it would become an antiquity.
So back to the original question, and also the answers on the first page, yes you could use a 29er from Specialized providing you had drop bars, correct sized wheels and tyres, and it met every other technical rule, which means by then it would no longer be a mountain bike by UCI definition but a cross bike.
Nice to see you admitting you are just trolling
given the clear intent of the original poster one might plausibly argue that people defending the event are the real trolls...
but simply can't picture anything as gently yet persistently as utterly soul destroying...
if indeed the rule obsessive can be held to possess souls ?
Again sighing....
I would disagree that one instance of respecting a preference by a race organiser is indicative of 'rule obsession', and also contest that the possesion or not of a soul is unlikely to be predicted by my approach to a cyclocross race.
I also appreciate that by continuing to engage in this, I am placing that soul at risk, if it exists.
Yep I really was genuinely interested at first and asked the questions because I really didn't know the answers. I thought I would engage a little here, since it's always intersting to hear what people on STW think.
I've been more than a little surprised by the reaction to say the least!
I honestly never knew that people were so protective, not so much of the event, but for what it stands for.
In some ways I am genuinely impressed and I applaud that. In others I think it's a bit incredulous and I just can't see what it is that the rules are trying to achieve.
I think it's fine that it's a 'cyclo-cross race for cyclo-cross bikes'. All I've ever done is contend that the boudary between cyclo-cross bikes and 'some' mountain bikes seems to have got very blurred recently.
To the point where if you simply but drop handlebars and 1.5" tyres on a fully rigid 29er you could race on it and it wouldn't be breaking any rules. But it seems you would be pissing a whole bunch of people off and that's the bit I still don't understand - why would they be so upset with this?
I would disagree that one instance of respecting a preference by a race organiser is indicative of 'rule obsession'
except that the act of reading the rules all the way through might well serve as a definitive example of "soul destroying" 🙁
To the point where if you simply but drop handlebars and 1.5" tyres on a fully rigid 29er you could race on it and it wouldn't be breaking any rules. But it seems you would be pissing a whole bunch of people off and that's the bit I still don't understand - why would they be so upset with this?
oh God we agree 😮
why would they be so upset with this?
to paraphrase much of the argument above "because they are" 🙂
29er you could race on it and it wouldn't be breaking any rules. But it seems you would be pissing a whole bunch of people
There is a rule that forbids putting 700c wheels in an mtb frame so as far as I see it you cant use your 29er as it's an mtb frame.
1.5" tyres on a fully rigid 29er. No you can't because thAts 38mm and the max tyre is 35mm for the peaks which is now different to the uci cx rule as I think that has come down to 32 mm.
Hey Edric64 - you entering again this year?
There is a rule that forbids putting 700c wheels in an mtb frame so as far as I see it you cant use your 29er as it's an mtb frame.
But 700C wheel and 29er wheels [i]are the same[/i] i.e. they are ISO622 (622mm in diameter) which makes the rule redundant if the MTB frame in question is a 29er.
aP Yes I will drag myself around again this year .I am looking forward to next years 50th running as well (if body and soul hold together long enough)
I am fully aware that the wheels are the same but it's still an mtb frame although I hear what you say .Basically if the organizers think you are not riding a cx bike and entering into the spirit of the event you are liable to exclusion
Hehe. I'll try to drag you into the finish this time!
There's some proper rubbish being put up on here by some contributors.
I might suggest to John that the race is limited to riders residing within 25 miles of Horton which would probably solve a lot of the problems raised on this thread.
I dont come on here often and cannot believe that people spend their time focused on matters such as frame angle differences between 29inch mountain bikes and cyclocross bikes.
It is much better to be out riding the roads and running the fells working towards an improved time. I will no doubt call this thread to mind this sunday when i pass down the back of PYG on the club run to Halton Gill.
Basically if the organizers think you are not riding a cx bike and entering into the spirit of the event you are liable to exclusion
Sounds like a religion, but thanks for the honest (and calm) explanation. Genuinely appreciated.
you are liable to exclusion
though of course there'd be nothing to prevent you riding there anyway except you'd be shunned and not win any prizes 🙂
[i]I dont come on here often and cannot believe that people spend their time focused on matters such as frame angle differences between 29inch mountain bikes and cyclocross bikes.[/i]
You'd be amazed at the razor/coffee machine/car/kitchen knives/camera/etc threads then. It is middleclasstrackworld.com
When I did the 3 peaks it wasn't even an issue; cross race, cross bike, simple. Unfortunately the internet seems to act as a kind of plonker magnet...
Unfortunately the internet seems to act as a kind of plonker magnet...
As does the 3 Peaks race it would seem..... 😕
Sounds like a religion
Are you sure? Which religion did you have in mind? I wouldn't claim to be familiar with every religion in the world but as I understand it very few of them have any strictures regarding the use of cyclocross bikes.
though of course there'd be nothing to prevent you riding there anyway
apart from the marshalls that is who'd be liable to stop you, it being private land with no ROW.
Do i get a t-shirt to say that i raced because to me that's the most important thing ?
apart from the marshalls that is who'd be liable to stop you, it being private land with no ROW.
they would have no right to stop you, and if they tried to grab you that would be an assault, so they could only shout at you 🙂
I wouldn't claim to be familiar with every religion in the world but as I understand it very few of them have any strictures regarding the use of cyclocross bikes.
"like a religion" in terms of irrational conformation to strange rules.
they would have no right to stop you
I'd imagine that given the event was taking place with permission of the landowner - which would have been gained by agreement amongst other things that the event organisor is supplying marshals to control access - they would have status of landowner's agent. In which case they have every right to stop you, and use reasonable force, which would include grabbing you if you ignored their instructions. It's not actually quite as much of a free-for-all as you sometimes imagine.
As does the 3 Peaks race it would seem.....
This really has put a bug up your ass hasn't it?
[img] 
[/img]
Possible re-post, but this a phot from the 2010 3 peaks Cyclocross race featuring Mr. Nick Craig. Flat bars, quite narrow, but still flat
Already been done, flat bars are banned for 2011. And it is a cross bike with cross tires etc but flat bars.
Ah bugger
"like a religion" in terms of irrational conformation to strange rules.
All bike races have rules, hence it is much more "like a bike race", than it is like a religion.
I really can’t see what all the fuss is about. Rules are rules.
Cross bikes at the 3 peaks.
MTBs at mayhem.
And when I was doing HtN it was anything apart from unicycles because of my totally unfounded bias against the people who ride them (they are probably lovely).
If you don’t agree then it is not the event for you. Or, if you don’t agree strongly enough, organise your own event with your own rules. Nobody will stop you.
If John says cross bikes then its cross bikes. His race. His rules.
they would have status of landowner's agent. In which case they have every right to stop you, and use reasonable force
I wonder if that is the case ?
I really can’t see what all the fuss is about. Rules are rules.
but they don't drop graven on stone from heaven or spring from the very earth - each rule should have some justifiable reason other that "it just is".
The 3Px is a religion for some, it is also an anachronism and a fantastic one at that.
I presumed that flat bars have been banned to try and preserve the anachronistic character of the event, nothing wrong with a bit of eccentricity, why not preserve it? We need such madness it's part of our national identity.
I've ridden it well into the teens of times, first time on a road bike with cross tyres squeezed in, no one was upset (pre internet days so we didn't have all this fuss), stopping was a challenge though.
Beg borrow or steal 'cross bike and ride it - then you get it.
nothing wrong with a bit of eccentricity
conformist eccentricity ? Is that like having tattoos ?
OK simon... How would you run it? What would be your rules?
Simon doesn't do rules. He's a peaceful anarchist. 😉
I want to know. For 48 years it has been wrong. Time for a new broom and Simon seems like the man to do it.
Come on Simon.
What would be your rules?
no engines or aliens. Don't kill your competitors unless they deserve it.
Splendid. Is that the best you can do?
Is that the best you can do?
what else do you need ? Necessary and sufficient does the job.
[i]I've been trying to think of a metaphor to use to describe arguing with sfb over this subject, but simply can't picture anything as gently yet persistently as utterly soul destroying...[/i]
I told you all a page or so ago; he's like one of those grabber claw machines at the seaside amusement arcades, just gently yet inexorably kills any hope you have by a perfectly balanced constant drip of apparent dimness.
If he was a bird, he'd be a woodpecker if we all had wooden heads....
If he was a bird, he'd be a woodpecker if we all had wooden heads....
no a seagull, I like to watch them enjoy flying - and I could still crap on you 🙂