[Closed] How best to express displeasure at bad drivers?

And the "discussion" almost certainly didn't change the drivers opinion of people who ride bikes.

You're after the impossible?

I think expressing yourself in mime is probably most effective.

Not an attack on you at all OP, but I'd just like to say that I haven't seen, let alone been involved in a single act of highway conflict, either in the car or on the bike, since I moved to Italy.

Some bad driving yes, but nobody getting stressed about it.

Its definitely a British thing.

Big and slow hand claps about 5cm away from drivers face.

How best to express displeasure at bad drivers?

All of them? At once? Pretty difficult, you could try advertising in all the newspapers, TV channels and internet sites on the same day. Just the one who cut you up? Not worth the bother, there will be another along in a minute. Either find a different route or gamble on taking the middle of the lane so there's no way round you and hope drivers look up from their phones often enough to spot you're there.

I shake my head sadly. It's more for the benefit of the other drivers waiting to overtake me in a 'see that last overtake - what a fool..' style. The driver who just nearly ran me into the kerb won't be using his mirror anyhow.

Are you trying to effin kill me? Have you got super powers that enable you to see round corners?
No.. You haven't., have you. That can only mean you were deliberately trying to take my life and make it look like an accident. Who sent you? WHO SENT YOU? was it Nicky the knife or Jimmy powder? You give them this message... If Big Tony finds out who you are he will rape your pets and smash your knee caps

After a couple of years of commuting and generally being very abusive towards poor and inconsiderate driving I developed a zen like calm where I no longer cared what other people did so long as they didn't actually come into contact with me. It was great improved my ride no end.

nothing at all makes any difference to anything they still think you were to blame and do not see what they did wrong.

Therefore do whatever the hell you like* just dont expect it to improve their driving

* you may wish to factor in how prepared to fight /commit criminal damage you are at this point.

Shirley dropping one's monocle in disgust says it all. Perhaps to rub insult into injury I may wag my pipe in their general direction but that would likely be a tad brash.

Not a lot IME.
If people are bad enough drivers to run you off the road, they're clearly not people who are mature enough to take criticism.
I know this already and re-discovered it yesterday when I got the finger for shaking my head at a driver who overtook me and then jammed his brakes on before he hit the slow moving traffic that I was riding behind. I'm sure he knew full well his observation skills were inadequate, but resented this being pointed out to him 😯

My current strategy is to be very polite and wave a thankyou to those drivers who wait and then overtake with plenty of room - they're increasing in number IME and the more you say thank you the more you give an incentive for them to do it again. We're social creatures who follow social norms so the more friendly we are, the better the treatment we get from most people - and the angry/childish/hard-of-thinking will slowly follow suit when they realise everyone else is able to cope with cyclists... and they're just a sad and lonely minority

aracer - I think I would like to be seen as a person, not on object called a cyclist. For me that's the key - get people to see cyclists as people (maybe even like themselves or their friends/family). Might be a long shot but whenever I see the lazy journalistic "all cyclists jump red lights" crap it is clear that "cyclists" are not regarded as people by some. And showing that bad drivers actions are not "considerate" or "polite" or whatever might help to appeal to their human side rather than their tribal side.

After a couple of years of commuting and generally being very abusive towards poor and inconsiderate driving I developed a zen like calm where I no longer cared what other people did so long as they didn't actually come into contact with me. It was great improved my ride no end

Having it written down like that, rightly or wrongly, I realise I defo fall into this category!

Cloudnine & Sandwich: Bravo sirs, nicely done

I did this, had a few barneys with near miss drivers and realised the futility of my actions.

I'm trialling being frightened to see if that elicits some sort of human response.

I commute every day by bike, and rarely have a problem with being passed too close or cut up etc (maybe 2 or 3 times a year), but my route is a good one. Todays event was pure impatience from the driver - if he drove that route regularly he would know that at the next junction he will join a queue of traffic sitting at 15mph (which is where I caught him).

This

nothing at all makes any difference to anything they still think you were to blame and do not see what they did wrong.

a zen like calm where I no longer cared what other people did so long as they didn't actually come into contact with me. It was great improved my ride no end.

Any self aware driver will generally hold up a hand in apology, wait a few seconds if it doesn't appear vent your spleen if you feel the need. If they don't realise what they've done you pointing it out will make no difference.

The other day I suggested, in a raised voice (didn't shout or swear) to a lady attempting to turn left onto the road I was on that she get off her phone, when she drove passed me a few seconds later she gave me the finger. Perfect example of "I'll do what I want and **** you" road attitude that seems to be too common.

I developed a zen like calm where I no longer cared what other people did so long as they didn't actually come into contact with me

Yep, that's me, life's too short.

'm trialling being frightened to see if that elicits some sort of human response.

Meant to be quite effective.

My current strategy is to be very polite and wave a thankyou to those drivers who wait and then overtake with plenty of room - they're increasing in number IME and the more you say thank you the more you give an incentive for them to do it again. We're social creatures who follow social norms so the more friendly we are, the better the treatment we get from most people - and the angry/childish/hard-of-thinking will slowly follow suit when they realise everyone else is able to cope with cyclists... and they're just a sad and lonely minority

+1

(I try to do this. It doesn't [i]always[/i] work quite this way...)

'm trialling being frightened to see if that elicits some sort of human response.

Meant to be quite effective.

I get a fair amount of abuse, but always respond as cheerily as possible - feel sorry for the sad bastards stuck in their metal boxes. Getting wound up will just stress you out,

You could always do what my housemate did once when he borrowed my bike to get to work and simply shout "get out your **** car al * kill you, you *" while clawing at their door handle trying to pull them from their vehicle as they drive off. I think it's a perfectly reasonable response to a driver who nearly wiped him out on a roundabout. As for changing attitudes, the bloke in the car is probably scared witless every time he sees a bike!

you shout "help help!"?

Do you use a penelope pittstop voice?

I used to be quite articulate with my middle finger but as usual it's pointless so now usually just chuckle to myself and shake my head.

The last time I got squeezed in to the kerb though on the road bike a swift bang on the passenger window got a window down and an apology from the driver which I wasn't expecting.

Having removed a number of wing mirrors over the years, Im a little calmer now, but I wont be bullied just because someone has some unknown priority over me.
I've stopped in the middle of a singletrack road before now, folded my arms and had a stand off because some twunt thinks its ok to force me into a ditch rather than wait 5 secs for me to reach the passing place.

Do you use a penelope pittstop voice?

I'm as scared by the little old ladies (& men) that edge past you, too close, at barely 20 / 25mph, as they daren't stray onto the other carriageway as they're mostly blind.

let it go, it just spoils your day..

I think I would like to be seen as a person, not on object called a cyclist

The trouble is, as others have pointed out, how do you achieve that with an idiot driver who's turned off his/her brain and all human emotions as they put on the seatbelt?

I do like brooess' suggestion, though that doesn't involve saying anything to the bad drivers. Therefore I reckon you might as well go with:

I'm with the other Zen practitioners, but that is as much to do with the 35,000 business miles I drive every year as my cycling. I see so many bad drivers while in a car, that I simply don't take it personally.

Mind, I'm not beyond taking advantage of a situation when on a bike; so while overtaking a slow queue of traffic the other night, when a guy in a car I was overtaking began to accelerate (I assume to stop me doing... erm, something) I too accelerated, he matched me, I sped up. The game ended abruptly when I overtook the car in front of him and he did an emergency stop.

Well it made me laugh anyway, what a great game, cheered up the whole ride.

Last night these 3 things by the SAME DRIVER

1. As I was stopped waiting in the middle of the road to turn right, pulled up right along side me in order to also turn right instead of waiting behind.

2. Left me very little room while overtaking me on a narrow street as there was oncoming traffic. I was doing a decent pace and there was a traffic queue 100m in front.

3. Beeped at me because they could not get past because I was in a narrow lane of a narrow short 2 lane junction and they could not work out that needed to be there if I wanted to go where I wanted to go.

This was going from one side of town to the other, not all in the same section, so not like I was in any way trying to wind them up, just 3 really odd actions, as if they were just not paying attention.

I waved at her and smiled after (3) as if acknowledging someone I knew.

I'm relatively zen, I think the most I usually manage is a shake of the head or sometimes an arm raised in a "what was that?" sort of way. My main commuting mantra is "bad drivers are better off ahead of you than behind you - let them go" so if I've had a close pass I rarely filter back past them, I'd rather take my time and steer clear of them.

I think I've only once had a verbal exchange with a driver and she started that (coming to a t-junction on a descent. I was braking and correctly positioned on the road so didn't indicate. She didn't have enough space before the junction to go past me anyway so I'm not entirely sure why it mattered which way I was going to turn as I'd have been stopping at the junction with her behind me either way. She had a go at me for not indicating and I relatively calmly reminded her I needed my hands to brake. I bet she wouldn't have batted an eyelid if a car hadn't been indicating...)

I waved at her and smiled after (3) as if acknowledging someone I knew.

I think - if someone beeps at you for doing something they consider 'wrong' (read, holding them up for 10s) - this is wthe only way forward - a cheery "oh, hellooooo" type wave. disarming.

I've taken to the zen like calm approach, or a shake of the head and severe tutting. If I have time to be annoyed they have missed me and not hurt me.

I gave up shouting at people after the incident that resulted in the driver being done for assaulting me. Phyrric victory, I think is the term.

Find where he lives and shit on his bonnet.

I aim for the zen like calm, when nearly killed ,I struggle to maintain that state.
I like to ask drivers who pull out on me if "they've just passed their test".
Really pisses off "dem yout"& the over 50yo (obvious) daily mail readers.

I think displeasure is best expressed through the medium of interpretive dance.

Lots of varied responses, but no killer polite put down. I'll keep thinking - maybe an air horn through the window would wake a few up?

I've had 2 effective responses to nobrash drivers.

1) Wide eyed maniac "You just almost killed 3 people!!!!" to careless driver that overtook me round a blind bend causing me to have to swerve towards a bush to avoid being hit, and the oncoming car to slam the brakes and brush the opposite bush. She hadn't even saved herself any time, and on a good day would've saved 10s overtaking where she did compared to waiting for somewhere sensible.
She did look pretty sorry once it dawned on her how silly she'd been to be fair, more luck than judgement on my part, but it was beyond my levels of self control not to have a go at her over it.

2) Calm wave to a car full of police in advanced stop area "I would've expected better from you.". They looked suitably sheepish.

I love the idea of the Zen approach. Sadly the red mist descends and I behave rather badly. I will try to be better.

If you kick the rear quarter-panel of their car, then it is a more expensive repair for them *

*make sure you have an escape route! just in case they take offence......

This is the advice offered to my mate, former London despatch rider...

+1 for zen.

Whatever you may argue riding with traffic in the UK is pretty wnk IMHO.

Yup, 34yrs of commuting has proved that the Zen way is the best.
A wave & smile would appear to irritate drivers more than a digit being waved. No point in wasting energy getting worked up when most, not all, drivers would ever admit to being in the wrong.
I can also admit to nearly colliding with the odd cyclist(and cars)due to modern cars having larger pillars and creating blind spots. 🙄

tom you are nearly there not the bonnet but the grill for the cabin air intake

I generally go with the middle finger of justice.

I'm quite sure that most recipients drive home, take their licence out of their wallets and leave it on the front seat. They then torch their car on the driveway and vow never to drive again.

I think displeasure is best expressed through the medium of interpretive dance.

I'm gonna have to give this one a go...

This does come up from time to time and the answers always seem to be the same for me. Riding a bike on UK roads shows you how many stressed-out, screwed-up people there are around you. You can't say anything to change that. Or you can try, but sooner or later someone gets out of the car and storms over at full volume and you're thinking fast about what to do. So what you say to who, when etc is either down to good judgement, confidence and a calm head, or hopefully not too-bitter experience.

The most stressed cyclists are probably the ones who have traffic skills that may not be as good as they think, who vocalise/gesture their displeasure the most and also aren't able to get out of the inevitable confrontations with much self-esteem or feeling of remaining in control of a situation. Shouting or being on the end of a verbal beating from mr aggro then posting it on utube isn't a good release valve for all that. It's a mental cycle that really isn't good for you. (amateur psychology BS sorry some truth in it..)

the week before last, two youths entering the road I was on from a side road brakes then accelerated over the junction into my space.

I turned to them and saw they thought it was funny. So, I told them to **** off and spat on their car. I continued on my commute waiving for the reprise, but there was nothing.

I have yet to find my Zen state, if someone acknowledges a bad decision or poor manouvre, fair enough. If they don't care, nor do I, metal box gives them balls, I will point out what they,ve done wrong.

@ jameso - i think what happens its it that it triggers the adrenaline and the flight or fight response - it is has nothing to do with skills or self esteems IMHO folk react on instinct

JY - it does, but we can overcome instinct. We often should do. Reacting on instinct is ok if it's in fast-response self defence but at the initial traffic stress/risk/incident stage you should have an element of control over your reactions. After all most road rage is people not having any control and being self-centred, it escalates from there. The esteem bit is normal, if you end up in a situation where you have to leg it from mr angry you won't feel empowered by that. I also don't think you should be the streetfighter hero to feel better either, just that remaining in control as far as you can is the aim. That may start by not reacting at all to a simple bit of lame driving. After all, we know it'll happen..

It's not just cars.....

on a cyclepath other day and overhearda girl say to her bloke 'what does he look like !!'

Normal shorts and top but buff over mouth an oakleys with a camo helmet ....(midges everywhere an fed up of eating them)

Still I can take the helmet off but she's stuck with her fat ass.

the streetfighter hero

Pinnacle Streetfighter Hero - the ultimate commuting weapon of choice?

Ha.. but no )

Someone made the point on one of these threads before that you don't want to allow yourself to be infected by someone else's anger...

I find it very hard to take abuse or near-harm without responding but I find I'm better off in myself if I do. There's too much shocking driving around to get upset by it every time

As lots of people have said already, there's nothing you can do. Get abusive and you're just inviting some sort of retaliation from random sociopaths. That said, people tend to be very brave when they're sat in their car with the door shut and moving along, they get a lot less so when you follow them into a pub car park and explain ever so calmly that they passed way too close.

I'm sure he knew full well his observation skills were inadequate, but resented this being pointed out to him

He probably knew nothing of the sort and didn't care if he did. The idea that a sizeable proportion of drivers are thinking at all is somewhat optimistic. All the incredibly stupid people at school whose utter lack of common sense and basic intelligence you marvelled at, they're all out there driving around and they haven't got any brighter since you last saw them.

There are people out there who can barely control a shopping trolley but are driving about in huge 4x4s. Go figure.

BWD - fair point. I suspect he didn't like me shaking my head at him cos he didn't see anything wrong about overtaking into a queue of traffic. Sadly.

Next time you're in a supermarket, try leaving a gap of about three feet in front of your trolley in the queue for the checkout then marvel at the agitation of the people behind you who haven't worked out that ramming their trolley into your backside isn't actually going to get them through the checkout faster.

Or people who are desperate to get on planes first because, er, well, it might go without them? They might run out of seats? Planes are just lovely places to sit and chill?

People just can't help themselves. They instinctively want to move regardless of the reality of the their actions. Or that's my half-arsed, quasi-psychological theory anyway… 🙂

+1 on the zen-calm thing. I spent years shouting and swearing at drivers and the only person it affected was me. A withering shake of the head or an incredulous bout of laughter is now my usual reaction to any driver idiocy. If I actually get the chance to talk to them then extreme sarcasm is usually employed.

Or people who are desperate to get on planes first because, er, well, it might go without them? They might run out of seats? Planes are just lovely places to sit and chill?

But for dealing with idiots unless you keep the one liners on the bars it will all happen to quick.

I was out riding with my (76yr old) mum today and we got beeeeeeep-beeeeeeeped at by car coming past up from behind. Granted I was riding a little bit out from the hedgeline, to give her a bit of safe space to move around in, so they did have to go ever-so-slightly-further-out to overtake than had they been overtaking a single cyclist, but we certainly weren't as wide as if we were two abreast - and as the road was completely clear, with plenty of space (on both sides of the carriageway), and good visibility, beeping and coming close was just being silly.

I just sighed and shook my head slowly, but my mum (aged 76 remember) flipped them a V sign, and shouted rather a long string of colloquially phrased words/terms to describe both the act of reproduction, and female reproductive body parts.

They did slow up, and someone turned and looked out of the back window, but then just drove off. She was certainly not pleased to have been buzzed like that, and made sure they knew it. That's her normal response, and whist she conceded it probably doesn't help, she did say she feels better for doing it.

God help them if they ever cut her up when she's driving her van...