[Closed] HOPE / Shimano brakes...advice for a friend.

Funnily enough, I have found the same - hope fit and forget and pads last ages.

Both my sets of 785 need regular bleeds to keep them going...

Just to confuse matters, the message seems to be that SRAM Guide RSCs are now non-shit also.

A substantial proportion of hydraulic brakes suffer from demonic possession. This is a more important factor than any other in whether or not they're annoying.

🙂

Just to confuse matters, the message seems to be that SRAM Guide RSCs are now non-shit also.

Far too soon to tell.

Just given my 4 year old Tech M4's a quick bleed, feel spot on (comparing with 2014 XT's) Prefer the hopes

Far too soon to tell.

Fair...

Bike Radar gave them 4.5/5 after 6 months. That's soon enough to tell, isn't it? I'll still be sure to mention them though.

I know I'd get M785 and put up with (the easy) bleeding. I think he's looking for justification for HOPE.

Thanks for replies

I think he's looking for justification for HOPE.

"Available in anodised red for 2015"?

Bike Radar gave them 4.5/5 after 6 months. That's soon enough to tell, isn't it? I'll still be sure to mention them though.

Avid Bleed

I don't want to get into shilling for SRAM, but the [url= http://enduromag.com.au/site/bike-news/on-review-sram-guide-rsc-hydraulic-disc-brakes/ ]Enduro test[/url] notes that the old "Taperbore" has gone and that:

SRAM have reworked the internals to make it much easier for their factory and the home user to achieve a proper bleed. In fact, they admitted that a perfect bleed was nearly impossible to achieve with the old Taperbore design, which is why a lot of Avid brakes have a slightly spongey feel as the pads engage.

As you say, early to tell, but it doesn't seem 100% obvious that these are necessarily as bad. Although I'm sure their sales managers are delighted that the Avid name has been dropped!

🙂

I think they had to drop the Avid name, the guides are coming on a lot of bikes so we will know soon.

I've had Hope and Shimano, and [b]I'm happy[/b] paying twice the price for a brake that isn't twice as powerful. I've always felt Shimano brakes lacked the feel you get with Hope and the quality isn't up there. Shimano's work for a few years and then the non serviceable callipers start to leak and you have to buy new. The whole brake units can be had for so cheap that you just buy a complete new set and after two years you have spent as much on brakes as if you had got the Hope in the first place.

It's more about the feel and adjustability for me though, I can get down [b]very[/b] steep descents in complete control whilst my riding pals are locking up and skidding all over the place.

I thought the general consensus was that HOPEs needed fettling to keep working but had excellent power / modulation

In my experience Hope brakes need setting up & once done (properly) perform faultlessly. I'm wondering how many folks who do the constant fettling have watched the Hope video on Youtube & taken the time to follow the simple instructions.

D.

money no object, i would have the Hope over the Shimano at any level.

SRAM will have to do a lot more than
a. admit we were all right, that avids are f***in awful and only suitable for rotting in the parts bin
b. rename, rebrand, remarket
ive still not forgiven them for the rubbish return spring in the x9 rear mech.

SRAM have burnt through their brake credibility.

can't go wrong with shimano or hope. shimano trail a bit more on off, but hope you can keep the wheel moving at the point of traction.

my zee brakes work better than any of my old hopes

My Hopes (Tech 3's V4's) work better than my XT's. If moneys no issue Hope every time over Shimano

I have both
My Shimano need bleeding and i am avoiding it as it is such a pain

as I always say ion this issue there is little difference in performance out the box and the issue is longevity

if you want a brake to work today get shimano as they are cheaper

if you want a brake to be working in 10 years tome get a hope because you can get spares if required.
In operation I dont mind which I use tbh

My Guide RSC on the back is great, more modulation than the SLX or XT I've used previously and similar amounts of overall power.

Hope everytime for me.
As been said ^ build quality, spares, looks but the big reason is the control you get that ABS feel and keep the wheels just on the edge of skidding even on steep wet leaf mulch slopes etc

I've been using a set of Avid Elixir R's for about 5 or 6 years and they've been faultless. Only now do they need bleeding and I've had a bleed kit waiting all this time and never had to use it, but all the horror stories just make me want to buy new brakes rather than bleed them!!

I'll probably go with SLX's as I can't afford Hope at the moment. Although my birthday is in April..........

SLX for your pal's needs.

OP, how you managed to just use one set of pads in eight years is beyond me. I used one set on just one race.

Have this dilemma myself now as the avid front failed, leading to a Tactical Dismount. When they worked they worked well, but were intermittent at best.

I would like to try Mineral oil Brakes, so looks like it's going to be Shimano, Anyone know if hope plan to bring out Mineral oil Brakes?

J

I have always had hopes and I still have hopes. However I now run Shimano SLX on the bike I use most. I'm sad to say Shimano have overtaken hope in terms of performance. That said I still think hope win out in terms of build quality and aesthetics and I still run them on my pretty bike 🙂 Hope brakes are a thing of beauty and are a much nicer thing to own - also they will last for ever but only because you can replace every single part very easily.

Shimano don't exhibit the same quality or attention to detail - but then they are a lot cheaper and still very good for the price. You have to have xtr to get a 1 piece caliper for example. but there is no getting away from the fact that the cam mechanism in the lever is just a very, very, very good idea... and easily outstrips the competition in terms of power.

Use V brakes. No bleeding nonsense needed there.

I'm in the Shimano camp.

I gave up on any Hope brakes after the brakes with the Mini lever....useless things. All my mates used to rip the piss out of my Hayes brakes but when we went to Morzine, I'm were the only ones that didn't need tweaking.

The Shimano brakes that I've had have been great; original Saints, XT, Deore and Zee. I think the cheaper brakes like Deore and Zee feel better than the posher brakes...lack of servo wave? I don't like the way Hope bakes look either; the levers always look huge and clumpy. The Shimano ones aren't pretty but they're small.

I've previously run elixirs with no issues, I found bleeding them was straight forward. (I guess the bike shop mechanics which complain are the same ones that struggle with internal cable routing)

I now run hopes, as the elixirs were getting on a bit and wanted a bit more power, but not the on/off feel of shimano's. Since fitting them to both the dh bike last May and the trail bike last August, I've had zero issues. Plenty of power and modulation.

I know it's not relevant, but I've had Avid Juicy 5s on a bike for yonks, never needed to touch em. They're white, so maybe that's why.

IME I'm very surprised at how good my new XT brakes are. They're extremely powerful, full of feel and the lever shape is perfect.

They're only on my XC full suss and not my AM bike because they're lighter than my Tech M4s currently fitted to my AM bike...and that my AM bike is my bling showcase bike too.

That said, a properly bled and maintained set of Hopes aren't far behind XT in terms of power and feel and will be a far better long term bet for spares and support.

Thanks all.

Sounds like HOPE are still preferred overall... But Shimano take the win for power, sacrificing modulation and build quality.

@darrenpink - I have no idea either. 2nd set of pads but still looking at 4 years a set. I do bed in my new pads and disc cleaner in part of every post ride clean.

Have experience of both Hope Mono/Tech X2/V4 and SLX/XT. It seems a few people out there confuse power with modulation. Shimano XT are no more powerful than Hope on a like for like, In fact I'd reckon, set up correctly, they're about the same. In my experience though XT are way more grabby and for that I much prefer the 'squeeze' of a Hope brake. I feel like I'm more in control. I can also put a Hope lever more inboard on the controls.

Hope also, for me, outshine the Shimano for serviceability and parts and customer service.

FWIW I'm a big Shimano fan but I just can't get on with the brakes.

My new bike came with SRAM Guides, wasn't 100% sure initially but have given them 3 rides to bed in. They're not bad by any means, but compared to my old Zees I don't have the same confidence in them.
Sadly, that means buying a new rear brake hose (new bike is longer than the old one) and a clamp for the SRAM gear shifter (it screws onto the brakes!) so it ends up costing me about £20 to put my old brakes on a new bike :/

It seems a few people out there confuse power with modulation.

Definitely agree on that point. Just because there isn't an instant snap your head forward bite doesn't mean the power isn't there. I've both hopes and shimano and much prefer the gradual feed in of the hopes of the shimanos (way to grabby)

I've got a box of broken Hope brakes - 3 sets of M4s - stuck pistons mainly.

All my bikes now have Shimano brakes that work flawlessly. Saint M810s are what I use on my main bike and they are absolutely bulletproof.

I know I'd get M785 and put up with (the easy) bleeding.

+1

But I'd also pay money to ride Hopes as my (admittedly only) pair of old Minis have been as good as gold, albeit not a patch on the power of modern Shimanos.

Personally I run latest model Deores now on both bikes after using XTs in various incarnations for years. In my humble opinion the price/power ratio is currently unbeatable. The lever shape is a thing of beauty too.

I've got a box of broken Hope brakes - 3 sets of M4s - stuck pistons mainly

A quick wipe with silicon lube on the caliber piston will put them right. Or chuck them in a box with my address on them so I can dispose of them safely 🙂

This thread reminded me I needed to price up brakes. The XT's with Ice rotas can be had for just over £150 where as the cheapest Hope are twice that. As much as I love Hope I'll have to go for the XT's.

If money was no object I'd have Hope though and still might get some second hand.

I've got a box of broken Hope brakes - 3 sets of M4s - stuck pistons mainly.

Or chuck them this way, I'll repair them, sell them and split the money with you.

the cam mechanism in the lever is just a very, very, very good idea... and easily outstrips the competition in terms of power.

Ironically its the non linearity of the cam mechanism that causes the lack of feel.

Failing Hopes in the Alps a few years back blew any trust I had in their brakes. Shimano every time. They just work. Had three sets, no issues over many years. And a damn sight cheaper than Hopes. Yes, yes, yes, 'plenty' spares. But never needed spares with Shimano's. Hope hubs I'll always use, awesome. Brakes, nah, don't trust them and not willing to spend all that money to be proven right/wrong. And I may be alone in this point, but they look gash. Too many graphics and 'over designed' in how they look for my taste. Way too, and hate saying it, 'blingy'.

There must be a lot of people with very grabby big powerful hands saying shimano have no modulation. Saint and deore that I run are easy to feather, lock and everything inbetween, you just squeeze less firmly!

Absolutely glasgowdan. Any brake gets grabby if you are ham fisted!
Shimano has plenty of feel. I have had SLX on two bikes for five years which have been bled but remain working perfectly. SRAM on the other hand never worked from new on my sons bike and despite warranty work never got much better

Shimano every time. They just work

They're fine as you can just use the warranty to get a new pair each time, but I was getting fed up or not having brakes for a few weeks at a time.

There must be a lot of people with very grabby big powerful hands saying shimano have no modulation.

They're grabby *compared* to Hope or Avid. Which is a wide range of brakes - which all have a very high level of modulation, so putting them in context with those, they're grabby.

Any brake gets grabby if you are ham fisted!

As above, it's not being ham-fisted - it's that in comparison to the other popular brands Shimano brakes are less modulated. It's how they're designed, Shimanos get progressively weaker in power the more you pull, Avid and Hope get progressively stronger the more you pull.

That means the first pull is harder on Shimano, and they don't get much stronger. Hope/Avid generally are weak in the first pull, and get much stronger the harder you pull the lever. That's a pretty good example of low vs high modulation.

There's not a right or a wrong, just a preference. Implying people are idiots and ham-fisted is just plain wrong, it's just physics and mechanics.