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Thanks everyone. You’re right, I shouldn’t have needed the forum to tell me I’d been a dick. I knew I had. And that I’d been lucky. I would just reiterate that I think this was out of character for me, and I am usually courteous and careful.
Reassuring that the forum contains such a bunch of mature and thoughtful people. I thought it did
A big lesson learned.
This reeks of some motorist' self righteous attitudes.
"I'm going faster than you so you should get out of my way!" Then take minimal action to avoid catastrophe when it doesn't pan out the way you expect.
The anti cycling brigade gain another supporter.
Dick move. You've acknowledged it. I doubt you'll do it again.
So two people were walking on a dedicated mountain bike trail and somehow the mountain biker is at fault when an accident happens? They shouldn't be on there, just like someone on a bike shouldn't ride on a pavement or footpath.
Just because someone is in the wrong place doesn’t absolve you from the responsibility of trying to avoid an accident.
If you were on a shooting range and a lost pedestrian wandered into your sights would you just say “shouldn’t have been there” and pull the trigger anyway?
So two people were walking on a dedicated mountain bike trail and somehow the mountain biker is at fault when an accident happens?
In this instance, yes - he saw them and didn't slow down.
If they were stood on a blind bend on a DH course then they have to take the accountability. If you see someone in plain sight and still hit them, regardless of whether they should be there, then a good portion of the blame has to lie with you
‘excuse me please’ was the right thing, at a speed slow enough you can stop.
I do also have a bell and have been shouted at before by and angry walker - 'you should have a bell' - response - 'I do, I just find them so impolite and much prefer to talking to people, are you having a good day?'
For 90% this disarms the situation and we part company with them hopefully thinking cyclists are nice people, and maybe thinking they should try that old bike they have gathering dust in the garage.
The remaining 10% just want to watch world burn and its best just to smile and pedal away.
Op acted like a dick in the moment, but acknowledges the fact and seems remorseful.
thankfully no one badly injured. We all make mistakes and errors of judgment, the important thing is that lessons are learned from them.
jhinwxm<br /><br />We all have a duty of care not to harm others and need to take reasonable steps to avoid it. On a marked MTB trail you should need to take less care than on a mixed use path but that does not absolve you of responsibility
Your argument would lead to car drivers having no responsibility for hitting a cyclist if there was a cyclepath nearby
Way too much blame being thrown the OP's way. Way too much. They are ultimately to blame as they shouldn't have been there in the first place. Once you've let that part sink in...
There is some small fault with the OP possibly but its not as if he intentionally mowed them down. He tried to avoid them and one of them stepped in front of him. Their fault. They must have been deaf too to have not heard him coming.
Its the same on canals, people suddenly get temporarily deaf, blind and lose all common sense, its incredible. Most do it on purpose as they see it as some sort of act of defiance as they think canal paths are only for walking on and will not move aside. But people walking on dedicated mountain bike trails? I have little to no sympathy especially when they then have the audacity to try and blame you. That's some bare faced cheek.
In this instance, yes – he saw them and didn’t slow down.
If they were stood on a blind bend on a DH course then they have to take the accountability. If you see someone in plain sight and still hit them, regardless of whether they should be there, then a good portion of the blame has to lie with you
He went off trail to avoid them and then they moved in front of him. Not sure a good portion of the blame lies with him at all. He should've slowed down yes and maybe called ahead but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Its a shame he isn't as perfect as you are.
The large portion of blame lies with them for being that stupid to walk on a mountain bike trail in the first place, the rest of what happens is because of this simple important fact. Absolute idiots and I can well imagine the type.
So two people were walking on a dedicated mountain bike trail and somehow the mountain biker is at fault when an accident happens?
"I'm just swinging my fists, it's not my fault if you don't get out the way..."
Solution:
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www.acmewhistles.co.uk/acme-thunderer-58
Best option is to stop and let them know they were on a bike trail and be aware there will be bikes tearing down the course.
Its a shame he isn’t as perfect as you are.
I don't claim to be perfect. I've nearly skittled someone before on a bridleway because I went round a blind corner too fast. I knew in that instance I'd been a dick
You know as well as I do though that walkers are unpredictable, or defiant. You stated as much.
Do you know how well the trails were marked and that they KNEW they shouldn't be there?
If they clearly aren't aware you are there, what possible reason is there not to slow down, other than a f*** you attitude? Strava will still be there next time you ride it
I get this on occasions at Ranges. I dont get all arsey about land ownership or trespass crap.
Just tell they are walking in a LIVE RANGE, they don't come back. Not very often anyway.
Still, all shooting stops 🙂 Until they are gone, you can't just carry on. AMBER to GREEN.
Get more OGMIOS with everything.
The large portion of blame lies with them for being that stupid to walk on a mountain bike trail in the first place
This hardly needs saying, but there are walking and running trails at both Coed Y Brenin and Afan/Ponds. I've met folks who've gone for a walk and found themselves turned around onto the MTB bits by mistake - a bloke and his very young lad - who I missed by the skin of my teeth on the last descent of Y-Wal, and a group of older ladies, on a climb one of whom complained that she'd used a [recently built dedicated MTB] trail all her life, and was ready for a bit of set to, but was pulled away by her friends (much to their embarrassment)
Folks make mistakes, and if you're on a faster vehicle you have to be prepared for anything. Not only that but #rule1 applies anyway
So two people were walking on a dedicated mountain bike trail and somehow the mountain biker is at fault when an accident happens? They shouldn’t be on there, just like someone on a bike shouldn’t ride on a pavement or footpath.
I don’t know if you’ve used any cycling infrastructure lately but it’s often pretty ambiguous as to when shared paths become footways or vice versa. It’s also often pretty hard to string together a safe route without having to use bits of pavement. Regardless of the technical details, the world has to be pragmatic in the face of limited infrastructure.
The same is true away from tarmac. To the best of my knowledge, all of the dedicated MTB trails near me have signage only at entry and exit from fire roads. Yet it’s perfectly possible and legitimate to be traipsing through the woods, which makes it perfectly feasible that people can wander onto the trails with no idea that some people are treating them as race tracks, or that they can get lost and then need to follow a trail of some description to find their way out.
As others have said: even if you don’t accept the reality of those things, tough: you still don’t get the right to physically, or even verbally, assault people.
Absolute idiots and I can well imagine the type.
Yet according to the OP the exchange was well-mannered despite the unfortunate incident. Perhaps “the type” only become “the type” after they’ve been subjected to your attitude to the trail and your prejudices about everyone else you come across? I’m fairly sure I would.
They are ultimately to blame as they shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Once you’ve let that part sink in…
Given the fact that at least two of the people you disagree with have legal/insurance experience around the tort of negligence, maybe you should let some things sink in.
The shooting range analogy is very good.
I certainly agree that blame may be shared in various proportions in the case (as in the OP) where the victims were somewhere that they shouldn’t have been and/or acted erratically while being passed.
But that still doesn’t absolve the OP in the case where they tried a close pass at speed. People on paths don’t always more entirely predictably especially when startled and if you overtake someone you’d better give enough room to account for that.
Good of the OP to admit publicly that they were in the wrong and broke Rule #1, that should be applauded.
This hardly needs saying, but there are walking and running trails at both Coed Y Brenin and Afan/Ponds. I’ve met folks who’ve gone for a walk and found themselves turned around onto the MTB bits by mistake – a bloke and his very young lad – who I missed by the skin of my teeth on the last descent of Y-Wal, and a group of older ladies, on a climb one of whom complained that she’d used a [recently built dedicated MTB] trail all her life, and was ready for a bit of set to, but was pulled away by her friends (much to their embarrassment)
This issue was exacerbated during the lockdowns, especially at Cwmcarn and Brechfa. The locals had got used to having 'their' hills back and not seeing any riders so for the first few days after everything opened up again there was a lot of trail conflict. Cwmcarn has a unique issue too in that the whole hillside is classed as a Common under Caerphilly County rules (it's why the car park is run by the council not NRW) and that technically gives walkers the right of way everywhere. A local Bylaw and Traffic Restriction Order is in continuous place to get around this, hence the Walker Warning signs at each trail section start and end, but there are a few locals who think they can walk wherever they want including up the DH tracks. It was a particular issue when the Cafall opened as before that side of the valley had been purely for walkers, there was a small but vocal group that thought they were having rights taken away from them. It's reared it's ugly head again recently too with the reopening of Forest Drive to vehicles, more likely to come up on walkers on the Twrch further round the loop than before. I always find a friendly word with visitors works well, the petulant locals I just ignore now.
Have any of you considered that some people are actually deaf and no amount of shouting will alert them to your presence.
Hearing aid wearers may also struggle to localise where a sound is coming from.
They must have been deaf too to have not heard him coming.
Well they were elderly so maybe not such acute hearing as you.
Bruce - yes. Bells are difficult for some folk. Calling out less so but Iook for a reaction from them that lets me know they have heard. No reaction - very slow overtake