[Closed] HIghland dwellers - talk to me about winter car tyres

Though not living in the Highlands, I do travel pretty extensively amongst them - particularly during the winter. I've never once considered getting any sort of special tyre.

Conversley this year I considered getting snow socks\chains for visits up north and if I lived up that way i'd definately look into getting winter tyres. Was up in Aviemore last week and noticed a few local cars with winter tyres fitted already.

I suppose it depends on what roads you'll be driving on and if we have another cold winter.

I drive an A2 and after last winter have bought some cheap steel wheels and fitted 'winter' tyres. Really, you won't spend any more on tyres in the long run, but you will be safer and less likely to get stuck if we have a bad one. Winter tyres are actually 'cold weather' tyres - the compound is different so it remains supply below 7 degrees C. Apparently the stopping distances are way better below that temperature even without snow, and grip is supposed to be way better on snow - enough for me to give it a go.

Yeah i've also heard that.

I put general grabber at2's on our X-Trail last winter. The off road grip is amazing and driving on soft snow wasn't much different than tarmac. Hard compacted snow and ice was also much better with low pressures.
On road, they're slightly noisier than standard tyres, but they handle way better than the continentals that were originally on. The sidewalls are much tougher so the whole car leans less and generally goes faster round corners :). They cost 360 for 4 fitted and is the best investment i've made! Don't notice my difference in fuel economy either, despite the obvious chunkyness

I run Vredstein Snowtrac 3 tyres on an extra set of wheels that I'll be swapping over as soon as daily frosts look likely. They'll be on a 2.0 diesel Berlingo and the difference is night and day. When they're on, I'm only really concerned by sustained snow deeper than 30cm. Shorter drifts can be pushed through, but clearance is an issue on longer stretches. The clearance on the B'lingo is better than most cars anyway.

They are fine on non-snowy roads and have no noticeable effect on fuel consumption. Why more people don't use them, I've no idea.

EDIT: I'd add that I didn't get stuck due to road conditions even once last winter, and we had snow lying in out street from December until late March. I did get stuck behind other cars with summer tyres on, and towed a couple out even with 'only' 2WD...

I've been thinking of a set, they dont seem much more expensive than the tyre's I ran last winter. Got because they had more cross tread than the usual ones I run. Most people I know who have snow tyres run them on a second set of wheels that get stored during the rest of the year. The guys who run my local garage suggested running a set of steel wheels with winter tyres. They also thought I might want to take them to a tyre place they know and get them studded!

Got a set of Vredestein Snowtracs on a second set of wheels from tyremen.co.uk last year and suddenly stopped fretting about the weather. As another correspondent says its like night and day and they're generally better even when it's just cold and wet.

Some say that they're not necessary given the cost but for me as well as them being loads better it's piece of mind that if I need to get out (or back) I can do without much drama. You have the luxury of hitting the back roads when everyone else is sliding around on the main roads.

Just to give you an idea I was able to do hill starts on 1/5 (poss 1/4) hills covered in snow and ice.

Never had seen the need for winter tyres. Shouldn't be pushing it in grim conditions anyway.

I live in Nairn and last winter a decent winter tyre was a big advantage. The roads don't get gritted enough, and it the ice was a big problem last year as well.

I used to use [url= http://www.gislaved-tires.com/generator/www/com/en/gislaved/automobile/themes/pc_tyres/winter/nord_frost_5/overview_nf5_en.html ]Gislaved Nordfrost [/url] tyres on my old Subaru and they were amazing, we used them all year round and they were fine. It was a four wheel drive car so it isn't a plain comparison, but the difference the tyres made was unreal.

I would give it a go.

I live in Grampian and hadn't considered them until last winter when we had a torrid time for weeks on end. My only issue is locating some spare rims and storing a set of 17" summer wheels and tyres for the winter (plus my wife will want them too so that's 2 sets of wheels/tyres etc 🙄 )

cheers for the replies guys. Will have a shop about and see what I surfaces.

We run full winter tyres on our van in the winter. They're awesome! Our under-powered 9-seater minibus will make it up virtually anything with them on. It's embarassed quite a few faux-by-faux's.

Our place is a little above the resort centre here and hence the road doesn't get as well maintained as the lower roads do. Late Feb/early March often brings 3" thick boiler-plate ice on the road and we can still make it up without the need for chains. Summer tyres would see us putting on the chains every time we took the van out, and that's a real pain in the ar$e.

I think I put chains on twice during the whole of last winter, both of them down to having to stop/re-start on a steep bit due to other road users (i.e. muppets wandering around in a dream with skis on their shoulders taking up the whole road! 😉 ).

We don't bother with a spare set of rims, they just get swapped on and off the standard rims and we store the summer tyres out of the way. Some garages/tyre places around here will store your "other" set of tyres for you for a small fee.

If you think it's going to be an issue for you, don't hesitate, get winter tyres. They're great. Chains are an option of last resort. They're a total pain and they break very easily.

NOTE: I live at 1,600m in the French Alps, not in the Highlands!

I live near Cairngorm and last winter was a blast. 80 mile round trip to work and missed one day, and nothing was getting through then as they closed the road.
I work on the basis that normal tyres will get you through virtually anything, and If I want to go somewhere they wont then I put on the chains.
Having said that, Id happily use snowtyres if I had them, theyre not far off chains for grip, and a bit more convenient. I'd still have the chains with me in case tho.

Do these tyres need to be on all four corners ?
Would it be any use just putting them on the driven wheels ?
(To save cash)

People do do that, but be aware it makes losing the back much more likely.

Driven wheels is OK if FWD, all 4 is better though for roadholding. If you lose the rear with standard tyres and winter ones on the front, it'll go VERY quickly.

i think i had gislaved norfrost 2s last year and what a diff. the guy at work got them on his mondeo too and they made a huge diffrence. really worth it.

i have managed fine over the past 12 years going to Aviemore each day on normal tyres but under braking,the compound and pattern of the winter tyres are worth their weight in gold when they are really needed.

to spend crazy amounts on the bike but run the wrong tyres on the car is so stupid.we all get away with it but when you really need them, and you dont have them.. you will be sorry. Its fun falling off the bike through poor tyre choice.. you can laugh about it. but dont think its a laughing matter when you slide off the road!

i had a look at chains and winter socks earlier. still not sure what to go for yet.i dont know who makes the toughest socks.

sweepy i missed one day going to aviemore too! the police were pretty much going to crack down on folk leaving Inverness one morning it was that bad with drifts across the A9. how well did your car survive with all the clean snow for,what? 6 weeks of snow snow snow?! my car didnt take much of a hammering with all the snow last year. i hope its the same this year.

snow tomorrow on the peaks. I have my battery charger set up for the camera to get snowy wyvis pics tomorrow morning.

michelin do a composite snow chain that my mate swears by, seem to be a compromise between chains and socks
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Michelin-Easygrip-Composite-Snow-Chains/dp/B002VX0JZU

still think id have chains as a last resort myself tho

martin, the only problem I had was the fuel lines freezing once in a while below about -18. Kept a blowtorch with me to warm it up.
Did you see the two cars buried on the verge of the A9 for about two months 🙂

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a9 last year,

Im from the highlands and family still live there. Used to be very common for people to fit winter tyres (even studded tyres though possibly not legal). Not seen so much now due to mild winters. Went up for last xmas and new year and wished I had some got a bit stuck in deep fresh snow a few times. Put a pair on front of my wifes Bora Tdi. Superb! would go anywhere. It wouldnt even reverse out of the drive in the snow before fitting them. They made a bit more road noise mpg dropped mabe 3 miles per gallon max.
Soon after xmas went to france waaahhhyyy up in the mountains there was lots and lots of snow, snow blower out every morning. Was driving rear drive merc vito bus thingy. Put snow chains on and it was unstoppable. The draw back with chains is that once you hit tarmac you have stop and take them off cause it feels dangerous to drive with them if not on snow. Fitting and removing is a bit of a faff and involves getting your arms behind wet cold snow covered tyres! Not nice. I would think a modern winter tyre would be your best bet for fort / inverness. But be aware they wont make much difference on black ice. Only studs cut into ice.
Try Inverness tyre service but expect to have to order them as most places dont carry stock and what there was got sold out very quickly when the snow started falling!

Dont mean to be alarmist but always good to carry a shovel too!

Culloden last xmas!

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yeah and they kept getting harled with snow and grit each day to top it up.. then it froze! they couldnt even hack it off to get into them. i think there was a bmw on daviot hill that got out after a few weeks but what a nightmare. then there was the new overtaking lanes.. the L200 and the x5. people putting the foot down and spinning off into the ditch in their 4x4s ha! those composite chains look good. only 2 sets left in my wheels size.

re: you shouldnt be pushing it in grim conditions..

you dont need to be pushing it for the car to turn into something similar to a curling stone. A few years ago now at the north junction of aviemore, a guy hit a lorry nearly head on right next to me as i was turning off the A9. he split his head open badly and his L200 was a write off. He was o.k. but the next thing i was worried about was the northbound cars about to pile into the accident in near whiteout conditions.I started walking south to wave down the cars heading north so they wouldnt pile into the lorry and the cop and fireman told me to "not bother". i said that its just going to end up with more accidents and they didnt bother warning anyone. about 2 mins later a three or four car pile up happened behind the lorry. I raised both arms,grinned at them and walked off back to the car.
The cars werent going fast but the slid like curling stones.

rubber & ice is NOT easy driving!

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Drove to culloden every weekend last winter from aberdeen on normal tires- only thing that made it hazzardous for me was ****ing tailgaters !

Will be putting winter tires on a spare set of wheels i have this winter purely because i dont want to buy a 4x4 even though where we live would justify it !

Not a Highland dweller but have been considering winter tyres anyway as moved to a rural location recently which won't get looked after in the 'winter'. Talking to those in the know at work (Chassis & tyres people) consensus is that winter tyres give you the upper hand in grip once the temp drops below 7 deg C which if you look at annual weather data is broadly Nov to March in the UK.
The winter tyres have a softer compound e.g not like summer tyres which go rock hard in low temps.
Their other feature is the more open tread pattern to avoid them packing with snow/slush which I guess is only beneficial a few weeks of the year even in the most snowy areas.
Anyway I'm sold on the idea and will be getting a set of steel wheels and winter rubber all for less than £350.
Guess will never know if they are better as hardly likely in mid-winter to rush home and swap back to summer tyres and go and try the same route but logic stacks up for me.

I've have winter tyres fitted all year round on the driven wheels of my van, fronts will be changed to winters when the time comes. They are better in cold temperatures you might as well leave them on for the whole winter.

The 'light front wheel drive car with narrow tyres' (our Punto) was completely flummoxed by snow and ice, the rear wheel drive van with winter tyres laden to about 3000kg just carried on as normal, it went up hills where all other normal cars were sliding about halfway up 🙂 I even tried to provoke it into getting stuck but it wasn't having any of it.

I've lived in Glencoe for the last 3 1/2 years and am still driving my 1.4l, 10 year old Ford Focus with whichever normal tyres the local garage fits. Last winter the A82 was closed 3 times (from memory) and I had to dig myself out once. Our track here is unmade too - rough stone for a couple of 100m to the minor road itself. I was in Livingston (central belt) for Christmas and it was a complete nightmare - roads closed/impassable everywhere and digging myself out every day.

The east does get more snow though and I've had some nightmare journeys up and down the A9.

TS

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I'm not saying it would never have happened if I had winter tyres fitted, but I feel my accident would have been more "controlled".
I've had advanced driver training as a Paramedic, including skid pan training, and I was still unable to control a slow speed skid.
I'd become aware of black ice on the road, approximately 400 metres further up the road and had begun to scrub speed using engine braking, when my car hit more black ice at around 30mph. After correcting the skid 3-4 times I could feel the vehicle picking up speed, and becoming unresponsive whilst going up an incline. We ended our journey 40 feet below the road in the River Dee, after rolling down an embankment and hitting a tree.
The vehicle was fitted with mud/snow tyres in preparation for the heavy snow we were expecting, so my next set of winter treads will be snow/ice specific i.e heavily siped with a block tread, rather than just blocky.

By the way it was a relatively warm 7 degrees when my Wife and I left home for work that morning.

I'm also quite keen to get a set of winter tyres this year - just wondering where you guys get the steel wheels from?

notlocal,
wow, what car is that? It looks so mangled, I can't tell from your picture!! Were you both unhurt?

The vehicle was fitted with mud/snow tyres in preparation for the heavy snow we were expecting, so my next set of winter treads will be snow/ice specific i.e heavily siped with a block tread, rather than just blocky.

Mud and snow tyres should not be confused with winter tyres. They have a tread pattern that works well in both mud and snow, but generally the same hard rubber compound as a regular summer tyre.

twohats: Yeah I'm aware of the difference, but on the makers website they are still billed as a winter use tyre. That's why I'm going for specific snow and ice tyres with the Mountain and Snowflake symbol.

alp girl: it WAS a Mitsi Delica. Shogun based people carrier. I fractured my sternum, bruised heart and lungs, and severed 3 tendons in my wrist. Mrs notlocal broke her back at T8. The docs described it as an explosive fracture. In laymans terms she compressed the vertebra and the 3 spinous protrusions shattered into lots of pieces. She's back to work as a Paramedic (had to return earlier than advised, or go onto no pay) but is still undergoing physio.
We're both VERY thankful, and lucky to be alive.

Oh,forgot. Steels and tyres available from mytyres.co.uk

Mud and snow tyres should not be confused with winter tyres. They have a tread pattern that works well in both mud and snow, but generally the same hard rubber compound as a regular summer tyre.

You make an excellent point, winter tyres should be of a suitable compound and siped tread pattern for grip in wet and icy conditions.

My Mondeo never moved for 2 months last winter, it was bad enough in the wet, trying to get it out of the perma drifts around it just wasn't going to happen. My van had to be dug out several times but was generally ok once it got going. My wife's Punto managed fine although it grounded out a few times on the central ice shelf between the 8-12" ruts down our road. I've gone for AWD this year and will probably get the business to get steels and winter tyres. They may be the biggest waste of money ever but they could also pay for themselves in one day and earn me some cash! Last winter was the only one for a long time that they would actually be deemed more than just a luxury but we've had snow already this year and it's looking cold!

I kept snow tyres on all year round on the front of my Fiesta for about 4 years until last year when we had the worst snow for a decade. They'd been great when it did snow, never ever got stuck but it hadn't snowed that often so I got ordinary tyres instead. Typical. However, having had the brand new tyres fitted in mid November, they were still grippy enough to get me home every night through untreated roads as they had loads of tread. That said, I will be putting snow treads on this year, they're not that much more expensive and I hate getting stuck.

Notlocal, don't beat yourself up over the accident. The only tyre that will help on ice is a studded one. The tyres on my X.trail are amazing in the snow, but just as useless on ice as any other, even at 10psi

a few things i'd point out (some already mentioned above)

- snow tyres are better in general once temp gets below 7 degrees, ie more grip on cold dry roads, cold wet roads and snow.

- for the UK i'd get a winter tyre that scores well for all round conditions (see tyretest.com or tyrereviews.co.uk) not just excelling at snow

- although you have to buy an extra set, it saves wear on the summer tyres for 4-5 months so the extra cost isnt really that much

-an insurance claim (excess + higher premiums) or even a slight dent fixed in a bodyshop as a result of a snowy slide will probably cost you nearly as much as a winter set of tyres.

- If you have big alloys with lo pro tyres its best to go down a size if you can. See mytyres for rubber on steel rims. The rims + tyres i got for 16" were cheaper than just the tyres for 17"!

- get them now!!! The prices on mytyres have been slowly increasing over the last few weeks. All the european countries will be buying tyres now, and the best performing ones get snapped up first. Leave it too long and you'll pay much higher prices for the popular ones, or be left with crappy far east budget versions!

We run winter treads on our minibuses - as said above, they actually allow you to drive on snow and much better grip/braking in cold and icy roads. Well worth it and I plan to buy some after pay day for our car.

Snow Tyres vs mud/off-road tyres:

2 seasons ago, I was giving my aunt & uncle a lift to Chambery airport after they'd been skiing with us. It was late January, so usually the traffic on the roads on changeover day is OK (can be a nightmare in this area). On this occasion, we'd got just past Bourg Saint Maurice and had been sat completely stationary for well over an hour. Eventually, I heard on the radio that there was a broken-down vehicle blocking the road ahead and that it was grid-locked most of the way to Moutiers.

I decided to use a bit of local bike-shuttling knowledge, pulled a U-turn, headed back towards Bourg and dropped down onto the back road via Landry. Followed this through (moving at least, despite taking forever at each junction to get across the stream of ski traffic coming down from the resorts. This road follows the valley floor for about half the distance, then climbs up some hairpins, through Notre Dame de Pré and back down hairpins to the main road near Moutiers. It was snowing steadily and the back roads don't get so much attention from the ploughs! With full snow tyres, I was fine. Plenty of other locals, taxis, transfer companies etc. were going the same way. Unfortunately, there were a lot of tourists in hire cars tagging along! The up and the across bits were fine, but once we started going back down the steep hairpins, it was carnage. There were cars in ditches, cars in the trees, cars crashed into each other and one guy doing a proper Italian Job "I've got a great idea!" number. By this time we were following a bunch of late-teenage Belgian kids who'd clearly been allowed to borrow Dad's car for their ski trip. It was a Toyota Land Cruiser 4x4 kitted-out with what looked like full-on spiked mud tyres.

Eventually we came across a severely off-camber passage, covered in nasty-looking compacted snow and ice. Get past this and we were home and dry. Belgian Toyota went first - and slid straight off the road sideways, crashing into what was now a pile of other cars that had done the same. That's 4WD, spiked mud tyres and a legendary off-road vehicle. I was immediately behind in my 2WD long wheel-base Renault Traffic van. Proper snow tyres though.

We cruised it, no worries.

Got to the airport at 1514. My aunt & uncle's flight was at 1520. They let them on! They were passenger numbers 60 & 61 to board of a flight that was booked for over 120 people!

Funny reading through all the above... if you have ever used them you will know how good they are and therefore are happy to pay the cash and reap the benefits.

Those who have not used them tend to think they are not worth it because they can't make that much difference... but they really do.

My 2p... I have used winter/snow tyres for the last 20 years because I drive up to the mountains most weekends in the winter. There was one year when I ran an Audi quattro when I thought I would not need them... but I was wrong and even with the quattro advantage a FWD car with snow tyres is better than a 4WD with lo-pro's (I now run a FWD car). If you've bought a car for the long haul and don't change cars frequently getting two sets of wheels makes sense, but I've also done it by changing the tyres over on one set of wheels as it's not that expensive.

hey stevious, how you settling in to the motherland? If you are driving on the trunk roads you should be OK, they get cleared relatively quickly and when they haven't you just need be canny and dont try to be stupid and drive a long way if it is tanning it down with snow. My folks live on a tiny steep road on the black isle which doesn't get cleared by BEAR or the council, so they couldn't get the car out for about a month last winter, so it depends where you are trying to get to.

A pal living in France recommended last year some sort of fabric cover that goes over the tyre and can stand short stretches of tarmac. He said it was most impressive gripwise and much easier to fit than chains. I can't remember the name now but he said they were very inexpensive. A search will probably find them.

OP, I'd get winter tyres. Last winter we went upto Edinburgh to see friends and always took the scenic route to Moffat on the way back partly because I know my car (yes yes awd) but more importantly it had decent michelin Alpin winter tyres.

In the new few weeks I'm picking up some new winter tyres.

Put it this way - £200 spent or what price would you put on being stranded for hours in very cold conditions?

I'd love to fit a 2nd set of wheels with snow tyres to my car but at the moment its cost prohibitive (£1400 for wheels then another £1200 for winter tyres )

r-kid, have you priced steel wheels instead of alloys? look on mytyres as they do tyre and steel rim packages, and the steel rims work out pretty cheap. Obviously depends what car you have though!

I'd love to fit a 2nd set of wheels with snow tyres to my car but at the moment its cost prohibitive (£1400 for wheels then another £1200 for winter tyres )

Look for non-repaired tyre sets on Ebay.

Would not consider getting winter tyres for either car despite living in a reasonably rural part of the Highlands. I do accept that if you are driving on snow they would make a big difference, but

1) unless you are actually driving on snow you don't need them
2) it doesn't snow on that many days (actually settling on the road)
3) IME the council are pretty efficient at ploughing and gritting all main routes plus any roads designated for school buses, fire engines and ambulances

Even last winter there were probably only 5 days in total when having winter tyres would have made the difference between being able to go out and not.

When the roads you are using are clear, winter tyres are noisier, increase fuel consumption and reduce cornering grip

Edit - /dons fireproof jacket/

When the roads you are using are clear, winter tyres are noisier, increase fuel consumption and reduce cornering grip

i'll agree with the first two points (but only marginal increases) but in cold temps on [b]snow free[/b] roads i think winter tyres give more grip.

but in cold temps on snow free roads i think winter tyres give more grip

No they don't. Winter/snow and mud tyres by definition have much deeper treads with wider grooves than normal tyres. When cornering on snow free roads these treads will flex significantly reducing your actual mechanical grip. Amount of mechanical grip is directly proportional to amount of tread in contact with the road

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view from my front door on tuesday this week ....

landlord has warned that when it snows with us IT SNOWS - and they did so before we moved in .... i dont care where there is a will there is a way - cant get the car out ill run/ride 5 miles to the station ... if the train isnt going i wont be going to work simple 😉

basically it goes up as you see - does a sharp u turn and goes uphill again. Thats the only way out of my drive in a car and it wont ever be gritted or ploughed as we live at the end of a dead end.

have a mile of this style of dirt track before i hit a B road that wont be gritted till i reach the village ! - think ill put snow tires on the van !

No they don't. Winter/snow and mud tyres by definition have much deeper treads with wider grooves than normal tyres. When cornering on snow free roads these treads will flex significantly reducing your actual mechanical grip. Amount of mechanical grip is directly proportional to amount of tread in contact with the road

ah but the rubber in normal tyres hardens with cold temps, whereas winter tyres use a softer compound which is more pliable at low temps and grips better. Well thats what a lot of the literature online says! I dont really rag it around in winter or summer though so i cant say i really notice the limits of cornering grip so i might be wrong.

Trail-rat if we lived in a similar location then I would seriously consider winter tyres. My point is that 99% of people aren't that rural and therefore don't need them.

We live about 150m up a steepish rough track until we hit a minor road, but it's a school bus and emergency services route so gets cleared. The track itself we sorted out with a couple of hour's shovelling

"No they don't. Winter/snow and mud tyres by definition have much deeper treads with wider grooves than normal tyres. When cornering on snow free roads these treads will flex significantly reducing your actual mechanical grip. Amount of mechanical grip is directly proportional to amount of tread in contact with the road "

winter and snow and mud tires are mutually exclusive ....

snow tires will be deep open treaded and possibly spiked with soft compound, mud deep open treads with normalish compounds

Winter tires are just car tires with slightly more open treads but with a soft compound that works better in low temps ...

of course this does depend what tires you buy .... i was looking at some for the van on blackcircles and reading about the different types there. Its deffo just winter tires i want , snow tires wouldnt be great in this country - just get some chains if im desperate to get out the drive !

i agree for sure - 99% of folk dont need them - but the ammount of beemers and mercs i saw stuck in aberdeen last year - what people do need to do is think "is this journey really neccessary"

i purposfully took the bike and stuck to the pavements last winter as drivers in the snow are ****ing dangerous(more so than other times) ... i saw a car screaming up NAD and up to the rear of a traffic jam - careered into a tree at about 40mph as he slid down the road trying to stop !

ah but the rubber in normal tyres hardens with cold temps, whereas winter tyres use a softer compound which is more pliable at low temps and grips better

I agree, but after a mile or less on cleared roads, your tyre rubber temperature will be well up to the point where it ceased to be an issue, and the other factors are then more important

Horses for courses.

I'm at nearly 1000ft therefore snow tyres on an astra is the only way forward. 😆

Captain, I think that you have been in your office too long as last year the majority of roads in the highlands were an issue. True that when you stay on a link road like yourself it might have been looked after but the reality was that the rest of us were sliding about on our way to work on a number of occasions. Good practice for car handling 😯

The fort to Inverness road had more landslides than major snow I seem to remember but I'm old and addled so I could be wrong.

crash_gav, I completely accept that there were some slidey days last year. My point, and to answer the OP, is that for the majority of people there was only a real problem for a few days as pretty much all adopted roads were cleared within a couple of days of significant falls, at least round our way. If you absolutely 100% have to get places on the 4/5 days when there is snow on the road, then winter tyres well worth it - otherwise not