[Closed] Higher Cadence issues

maybe you're not spinning too smoothly and are therefore bouncing around on your bits more than normal?

I'd look to change saddle shape rather than height, tbh, the wrong saddle height may just create a problem elsewhere.

Yeah that's kind of what I thought, it might start effecting the knees or something...the bouncing issue might be the one, I'll have a look at a few smoother spinning drills on the turbo.

Ta

It's pretty normal and IIRC years ago when I decided to actually train myself to spin, I vaguely recall that I may have had similar issues at the start.

It's basically because you're bouncing on the saddle now. As you learn to spin better, you'll become smoother and it won't be an issue. I'd suggest concentrating on spinning smooth circles rather than just doing lots of revs - if you're bouncing it suggests you're still pedalling up/down. Try to think of pedalling as scraping your shoe backwards rather than up/down as you'll always do that part naturally.

riding fixed is a good way to learn to pedal.

get some rollers, that will teach you pedal smoothly

You need to be sitting on your sit bones not your perineum. Angle or reach of saddle or type of saddle needs to be looked at

It's unlikely to be a saddle fit problem - unless he didn't mention it, he seemed to be fine before starting to pedal at a higher cadence. It's almost certainly just the bouncing up and down that's causing rubbing and soreness. Sort out the bouncing and it'll likely be fine.

Though of course TJ is right in general on saddle fit.

Could be chaffing due to an incorrect saddle height? ie. too high

Increasing cadence without consideration to power might do nothing at all.

Thanks all! I rode fixed on the commute for a year or so 18months ago and I thought that'd sorted my bouncing issues out, but I think that's it.

I've had the saddle a year and hadn't had any problems until I upped the cadence, I'll have a look at the angle though to check, maybe this is'nt so much of a problem at a lower cadence.

I was doing some 1 leg spins through the CX season to sort my smoothness, I'll reintroduce them a couple of times a week.

I was thinking about cadence while out for a run yesterday. It is interesting that the whole cadence issue has settled on high cadence (90+) as being optimum and for triathlon that there is also some merit in having running and biking cadence at broadly the same level. I wonder if the latter is mere nice co-incidence or really factually sound.

But didn't the whole high cadence think really only become gospel after Lance's illness. Specifically Carmichael designs a style of riding that suite the specific needs of Lance and from that and his success it becomes set in stone for all riders? What would have happened if Ullrich has won - would we all be grinding higher gears?

I have no idea what the answer is but have always had a long stride and a relatively low cadence. I felt forced into changing both. Running seems correct but still cant make my mind up about biking at super high cadences.

What type of pain - muscle, chaffing?

I agree with clubber with the whole shuffling your feet back and forward rather than up and down. This is the neglected part of the stroke. if you continue to push as the pedal travels over the top/bottom its stroke then you will even out the pressure as you start to push down. This means that you wont bounce, at least not as much.
Make sure your shorts are in good knick too. Old lycra does not really offer much support. Keep the boys in the barracks so to speak. Also check orientation of the saddle. Nose up too much and youre gonna start crushing. It took me a while to learn to pedal smoothly.
Fixed will help too. Its one of the more common reasons for people using fixed for training.

I'm not sure why but my cadence has always been very low, last year I'd average 60-65 over a four hour ride, I think even Ullrich was spinning 85ish or something on the hills.

It was more of just bringing it up to a faster spin just to save my knees a little, but keeping things at 85ish I do feel a lot fresher after finishing a long ride, my legs don't ache for hours after like they used to, hopefully it'll help with a quicker acceleration in the crits and maybe keep things a bit fresher for the final sprint.

I did Bala Half last year and from what I read the higher cadence, keeping things fresh just helped with the run in a way knocking around at 65rpm for the best part of 3 hrs would leave your legs feeling like lead.

Deffo sounds like the bouncing.

I had the exact same issue as a result of dropping the gearing on my commuter single speed but foolishly ignored the pain. I ended up with constant pain, even after not riding for >10 days; even sitting on a hard chair would prompt pain. I subsequently spent 2 years not riding a bike. I did try riding during that 2 years but within 5 mins (!) I was in pain again.

I'm OK now though.

Whatever you do, sort it out before it puts you out of the saddle.

Best of luck.

what I read the higher cadence, keeping things fresh just helped

allegedly - and only if power output is the same.

I got this a bit on the rollers on my fixie last night, figured it was from bouncing too much and the saddle on it being a mtb one and not really a great shape for me when in a road bike position.

Naranjada has scared me a bit now so I will defo put in a more concerted effort to smooth things out; the rollers are already helping with this - rollers+bouncing=scary!

Does sound like technique.
I've trained mine up to 94. It's given me only the slightest increase in speed. But I'm less fatigued, can respond far quicker and climb quicker.
Sounds like youre concentrating on the down stroke? A quick stint on a wattbike would show you where the problem was.

And as an aside my saddle is now 1/2" lower than it has been in over thirty years. I also thought about preserving my aging bod as well.

riding fixed is a good way to learn to pedal.

I've always heard this over the years, but I have my doubts. When riding fixed, the momentum of the bike pulls your leg through any dead spots during the rotation (in my experience). What's improved the fluidity of my stroke the most is riding rollers where the load is relatively low, so if your peddling has any floors it's very noticeable.

fourbanger - that is so true ^^^^

Fixed riders go on (and on) about "souplesse" but a smooth pedal stroke (like you say) can be developed simply by spinning with low resistance. I'll often do this on training runs and spin down a low gradient at 115rpm-120rpm. Dead spots in your stroke (if any) become evident.

And there is literature regarding the much touted scraping action at the bottom of your stroke being actually detrimental to stroke action. In this instance, I think its a case of whatever works best for the individual.

I think the fixed souplesse thing, for me anyway, is because if you want to go fast on a fix you will bounce if you don't quickly learn to smooth out your stroke 😯

But you're right, you don't [i]need[/i] one to develop a smooth technique and it won't magically give you one.

I now only use the fix for comuting and running around town. It was just on the rollers this week as I snapped the chain on my proper road bike on Saturday.

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Heres an image off Google. Reasonable cadence, oddly low output. A poor pedal technique would be 'more' peanut shaped, more pinched in the middle. Or one side bigger than the other.

Poor
[img] [/img]

Elite
[img] [/img]