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Some fascinating statistics.
@tjagain, over to you.
https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-22-march-2021-281903
Nothing new there at all.
We all know that across populations deaths and serious injuries have no relationship to helmet wearing.
This one is a bit dubious:
Research presented at the National Road Safety Conference in Telford in 2019 found that wearing a helmet may put cyclists at more risk of being injured in a road traffic collision. The researchers concluded that helmet use increased accident rate by more than 40 per cent.
because it takes no account of the profile of the populations of helmet wearers to non helmet wearers. Ie is the the crashers who wear helmets or the helmets cause crashes!
Indeed there's many factors in accident rates beyond helmets.
we need an rct. Double blinding may be an issue.
It one of the factors in the increased accident and death / injury rates in the antipodes with helmet mandation - all the safe old non helmet wearers stopped riding leading to only the crashers left riding so death rates per mile cycled went up. along with an increse in deseases of inactivity
that pattern is found in multiple places.
This is one of those debates that brings out the masses. I got better things to look at.
When they introduced steel helmets in WW1, the number of head injuries increased.
Does that add anything?
Interesting, but nothing really new. The whole helmet debate (on roads) is just another example of how bad humans are at judging risk. See for example, fear over vaccinations or (my) fear of flying. We give much more weight to relatable stories than we do to population statistics.
When they introduced steel helmets in WW1, the number of head injuries increased.
Does that add anything?
yes, we do need to look into whether the deaths have decreased by increasing helmet wear.
This reminds me of the issue with planes being shot in WW2 and the analysis by Abraham Wald - https://www.trevorbragdon.com/blog/when-data-gives-the-wrong-solution
yes, we do need to look into whether the deaths have decreased by increasing helmet wear.
with regard to cycle helmets this has been done multiple times with the same results - no significant protective effect, huge deterrent effect to cycling leading to more illhealth
As a recycled comment from another time... head injuries are a significant factor in vehicle collisions/accidents accidents but I'm not seeing people wearing helmets in cars....
There are any amount of documents are available, even one from Monash in Oz suggesting... wait for it... helmets, like cycle helmets, when driving cars.
huge deterrent effect to cycling leading to more illhealth
Where is the evidence for that?
I have never worn a helmet but it is very noticeable that pretty much every other person I see has a helmet on and there are lots of cyclists (leisure) where I live and ride. I am guessing that they don't have a problem with wearing a helmet given that it is not law and they can choose to wear one or not. Are their really 1,000s of people who don't cycle because they don't want to wear a helmet that they don't even have to wear anyway?
huge deterrent effect
Is it?
I have worn helmets for years, never bothered me. A modern helmet is light and comfortable.
@tjagain - would you stop cycling if helmets were mandatory?
Where is the evidence for that?
Follow the link in the OP. Look at the data from Australia and from one of the US states that had compulsion ( Georgia?)
Aus ( from memory) miles cycled went down by 30%
there is even good evidence that even promoting helmets reduces cycling enough to reduce the overall health of the population.
As for me - yes I would cycle less. Some journeys I now cycle I would walk instead as the extra hassle from wearing a helmet would tip the balance but its a marginal effect for me.
I do wear a helmet when appropriate
Some discussion here and IIRC links to the data
https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/cycle-helmets
There are any amount of documents are available, even one from Monash in Oz suggesting… wait for it… helmets, like cycle helmets, when driving cars.
I remember reading decades ago that this would save more lives than 100% cycle helmet wearing.
Barrington, Illinois, requires bicycle helmets for those under 17.
The state of Illinois however allows 16 year olds (and older) to ride motocycles, of any engine size, with no helmet.
In one of the Australian states the fine for not having a bell on your bicycle is bigger than the fine for drunk driving!
I've cycled in Australia. It was horrendous. I don't know why, but they REALLY hate cyclists there. I know it can be bad over here, but it's so much worse over there.
I remember reading decades ago that this would save more lives than 100% cycle helmet wearing.
given the number of car drivers dying with head injuries compared to the number of cyclists that die of them I can believe this. Walking and drinking helmets would also save more lives!
I've never had any big crashes on the road, but any near misses I've had are due to someone not looking, so I don't see how me wearing a helmet or a skull cap would make any difference. I know that if I'm being pitched over someone's bonnet I'd rather have head protection.
Off road I've had 1 big crash in particular that destroyed the helmet, and at least one other that scratched it up badly. Both times its served its purpose and stopped further injury.
Ives also had a couple of branch strikes that would have gouged my head at the least.
A helmet should not be an excuse for not looking into poor road safety, but modern helmets are so light and comfortable there is no real excuse for not wearing one other than 'i don't want to wear one'.
I don't buy they are a hindrance at all, and think that normalising that mindset that they are are a hindrance is quite dangerous.
Even tho the data says quite clearly that promoting and enforcing helmet use reduces the health of populations significantly and reduces cycling significantly? also that they do little to prevent serious injury, can exacerbate injury and can make accidents more likely? ( of course they are good at preventing scrapes and bruises
Helmets are not comfortable if you wear them properly - not compared to the lovely feeling of the wind in your hair 🙂
I'll give one scenario where wearing one would have been such a pain to me that I would have walked not cycled
I live about a mile and a half from where I worked. I shower before I went to work including washing my hair. Put a helmet on wet hair you have helmet hair all day. the commute was before 7 am with few cars around and most of the route is offroad cycleway anyway.
Normalising the mindset that you need a helmet to ride a bike is proven to reduce the health of populations significantly by putting folk off cycling. read the data
Matt - BTW I hate you 😉 Now look what you made me do!
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062406938_548cbdd750_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51062406938_548cbdd750_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kNdbAw ]162577725_1327069077673220_83299638582591687_o[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/25846484@N04/ ]TandemJeremy[/url], on Flickr
I got fined in Oz for not wearing a helmet whilst pushing my bike.
Was in some crappy outback town where me and my girlfriend rented bikes with unvented pisspot helmets. Clipped them on to my bars as it was about 40 degrees and cycled off. Immediately git pulled over by the local cop and warned to wear it or I'd get a ticket.
30 mins later the dirt road we were on turned into a sandpit and I got off to push through it as was too deep to ride in! Same bored cop drives by and fined me 25 bucks as ' I had both hands on the bars and no helmet again.....'
As for me – yes I would cycle less. Some journeys I now cycle I would walk instead as the extra hassle from wearing a helmet would tip the balance but its a marginal effect for me.
That is one of the silliest I-Will-Not-Wear-Helmet I heard in ages.
But that one takes the cake 😀
I live about a mile and a half from where I worked. I shower before I went to work including washing my hair. Put a helmet on wet hair you have helmet hair all day.
Unless your hair is chinchilla-like thickness drying it with towel or even with hair drier would be much more sensible than ride with wet head.
But of course what flows your way...
Somehow never came to me: "Gosh, what a pain in the backside it is to put lid on".
But that is probably only me...
Cheers!
I.
Unless your hair is chinchilla-like thickness
*Flicks luxuriant locks*
Normalising the mindset that you need a helmet to ride a bike is proven to reduce the health of populations significantly by putting folk off cycling.
It is already normalised. As I mentioned earlier, seeing a person cycling without a helmet is a very rare event where I live and ride. And as a helmet is not compulsory why do I not see more people riding without helmets if the helmet puts them off cycling?
Whereas where I live and ride non helmet wearers are a clear majority.
One of the factors that I guess gives rise to views on this is utility cyclists. From what i read on here most are not utility cyclists but leisure cyclists. Utility cyclists do not feel the need to wear "the uniform" of which helmets are a part. Helmet wearing is only normalised for leisure of enthusiast cyclists not utility cyclists
The data on all this stuff is really clear. ( reductions is cycling and no reduction in injury)
It is already normalised. As I mentioned earlier, seeing a person cycling without a helmet is a very rare event where I live and ride. And as a helmet is not compulsory why do I not see more people riding without helmets if the helmet puts them off cycling?
One possible explanation of course is that the social pressure to wear a helmet, and the associated representation of cycling as inherently dangerous, is already discouraging people from cycling.
modern helmets are so light and comfortable there is no real excuse for not wearing one other than ‘i don’t want to wear one’.
People die on foot, from head injuries caused by being hit by people driving motor vehicles. Or even by people riding bicycles.
So you wear a helmet while walking, right?
No, of course you don’t. Why? Because you don’t want to wear one.
It’s the same thing. It’s just that you, and most people, have been influenced into thinking that this argument only applies to riding a bicycle and not to walking or driving or pretty much anything else.
The uncomfortable fact is that not wanting to wear one is—whilst shorthand for a more complex appraisal of numerous factors—a perfectly reasonable human justification, but more than that, it’s one that you use yourself.
https://beyondthekerb.org.uk/the-brick-wall/
And as a helmet is not compulsory why do I not see more people riding without helmets if the helmet puts them off cycling
Because
the helmet puts them off cycling
so you're not seeing the people who have chosen not to get on a bike.
It is already normalised. As I mentioned earlier, seeing a person cycling without a helmet is a very rare event where I live and ride.
Yes, but you live in the rural New Forrest, if you see someone on a bike the odds are they've gone on a day out planned arround riding a bike. Not a spur of the moment pop to the shops to get milk or commute a mile or two into the office. You could probably make the inverse observation about carrying laptops?
Also it's a barrier to entry. Lockdown has meant a lot of people dusting of old bikes from their sheds and going for a ride round the park with the kids (sans helemt). A proportion of those may then start to commute by bike, or take up mountain biking, or road cycling, and buy a helmet. So even amongst the helmet wearers there's a proportion who would never have ridden a bike if helmets were mandatory.
If helmets were mandatory that nice April day in 2020 would have arrived, and they'd just have thought f*** it I'm not queuing up in Halfords for a new helmet and the bike would have stayed in the shed for another 10 years.
Again - I wear a helmet when appropriate. Trail centres, group rides offroad, icy conditions, if commuting in busy traffic , ie anytime when risks are raised. I don't wear one when pootling around in low risk situations
I didn't say to normalise wearing them, I said don't normalise not wearing them.
It's a balance and I'm certainly not saying helmets make cycling safe
Making cycling safer by the measures TJ listed above are incredibly important..
But helmets shouldn't be on the left - it shouldn't be one or the other.. if you could have the same amount of riding but always wearing helmets, would people be statistically safer?
There is a difference between statistical studies of what poses the greater risk in terms of 'overall' injury/health compared to and individuals exposure to risk.
Given everything else being equal, I would rather bang my head on a hard surface wearing a helmet. I've done it and I have absolutely no doubt the helmet reduced the trauma - it physically had to as energy was expensed by it crumpling - therefore less energy was transferred to my brain.
TJ - I'm sorry, but that argument against wearing a helmet messing up your hair is laughably weak. My commute is min. 3 days a week and a 12 mile round trip. It's just not a problem. Get to work, get changed, nip in the loo to make myself presentable. It takes 30 seconds to sort any helmet hair I have.
I think the core part of this that annoys me that we are seeing the damage that head injuries can cause, even when wearing a helmet (Dave Mirra being the example).
Wearing a helmet might not improve your safety on a bike in itself but reducing your exposure to head trauma itself can only be a good thing.
If helmets don't help, why do you wear one when it's relevant? How do you know when you are going to fall in a certain way?
If helmets don’t help, why do you wear one when it’s relevant? How do you know when you are going to fall in a certain way?
The question isn't whether you should, but whether making it a "must" (in the highway code definition) is a good idea.
Statistically you add more to your life expectancy going for a ride without a helmet, than not going for a ride.
So people who don't want to wear them and ride anyway are still having better outcomes than those who dont want to wear them and thus don't ride.
Tim - you missed my point - the commute is short and walkable. rather than have helmet hair all day i would walk. My hair would need to be completely washed again to avoid the helmet hair. If i was cycling 12 miles as you do i would be showering at work.
I did not say helmets do not work. for the individual there is no doubt they reduce / eliminate minor injuries. Its on major injuries that the evidence is that they do little. Its across populations that other effects come into play that mean as a public health measure they are counterproductive
So when risks are higher I wear one
Put it this way - do you wear full body armour, a full face helmet and a neck brace all the time even on your road bike? If not why not?
What relevance does Dave Mirra have to someone cycling to the shop? What relevance does an enthusiast have to someone who merely sees a bicycle as a way of getting to the shops quicker than walking?
Those who don’t see people cycling without helmets are only looking at certain things in certain places. In our town there is a pretty high proportion of bare-headed cycling, whether it’s shopping, commutes to the station, paper rounds or whatever.
Sure, it’s rare to see someone cracking along at 30km/h on a carbon bike without one, and perhaps rarer still to see someone up the local trail centre without, but these are enthusiasts for whom speed is a goal, who will take corners as fast as they can or who allow Strava segment chasing to nudge their appraisal of junctions or other vehicles. These are the people more inclined to risk, regardless of whether the helmet is a cause or effect of that in limitation (in reality it is inevitably both—the only question is a matter of degree).
Likewise, claiming that helmets are wonderfully comfortable and that it would be incomprehensible to find one objectionable is a very blinkered, personal viewpoint. Many people simply disagree.
The generally risk-desensitised, equipment-loving perspective of a typical cycling enthusiast is not the most helpful one, nor the most representative.
the data says quite clearly
but based entirely on observational studies. I’ve thought about this: we need a double blind rct to answer the counterfactual: what would happen if helmets were mandated.
I think given the above discussion that we can claim equipoise. So we should randomly assign people to five groups, of people selected at random from society who do and do not ride bikes [more sophisticated would be to stratify to top up with key groups of say commuters, kids at school etc], We then monitor how much these groups cycle, rates and types of accident, and general health over time. The six groups are people wearing:
A normal helmets some good, some not so good at providing protection.
B helmets that offer zero head protection but look and feel like normal helmets
C invisible head protection that works as well as a normal helmet
D invisible head protection that doesn’t work but feels like it does
E no head protection
And then we compare rates of cycling, and of injury per given distance cycled, and general health outcomes. You could up the power by making this a crossover design, moving people between groups after a given period.
My prediction: not much difference between groups but B come of worst in terms of highest injury and lowest rate of cycling, followed probably by C low cycling, v slightly less head injury (drivers take more care), then A, then E and D last.
My suggestion for invisible head protection would be a Kevin Keegan mid-70s hairdo involving Kevlar (Kev, la in scouser).
Until this important experiment is done, we’ll be none the wise and the internet will continue to be blighted by these discussions. The end.
Bollocks - I can see this hard work is just about to go off the bottom of the page and potential to add to human knowledge lost forever 🙁
Because I can recover from break or a graze, and a spinal injury is hard to armour up against. A helmet is easy and simple and provides protection to a part of my body that won't heal and that i can protect with a simple measure.
It shouldn't be helmets or other cycling safety measures. It should be cycling safety measures and looking at why people would rather not ride than wear a helmet, and look to remove those barriers.
Saying it's fine not to wear one is problematic, especially for kids who won't wear one when they really should do...
If helmets don’t help, why do you wear one when it’s relevant? How do you know when you are going to fall in a certain way?
How do you know you’re not going to fall in the same way when you’re not on a bike? (I’ve fallen down a flight of stairs before and hit my head on concrete.)
You’re making the same decision about when it is and isn’t relevant. You’re just drawing the line at “when I’ve got wheels” rather than, say, “when I’m riding through rock gardens at the limit of my skills”.
what would happen if helmets were mandated
The data for that exists. Cycling rates plummeted, KSIs barely moved. It was entirely in line with the hypothesis that the people who voluntarily wore helmets were the ones facing/presenting the greatest risk. I’ll find a link if I can be arsed.
B helmets that offer zero head protection but look and feel like normal helmets
This group already exists. seems a high proportion of under 10s who don't have "proper cycling parent" fall into it.
They are either going to be the next decade's cycle commuters, or the car driver who vaguely remembers what they filled the pandemic lockdown boredom with.
Saying it’s fine not to wear one is problematic, especially for kids who won’t wear one when they really should do…
Disagree entirely. I find it far more problematic to tell kids that it’s unacceptable to cycle without one, and that cycling calmly to school away from the road merits the same protection as going up the local jump spot.
I’ve had those conversations with the kids and they get it, and they will voluntarily wear a helmet when they’re doing the riskier stuff (ok, only one of them does) and—at least as importantly—they’ll stick to riding calmly and carefully when they’re bare-headed.
seeing a person cycling without a helmet is a very rare event where I live and ride.
It's about 50:50 with kids riding to my school I'd say. We have regular assemblies imploring them to wear helmets or they will surely die. I just nod and smile.