[url= http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/amateur-cyclist-robin-townsend-receives-ban-using-epo-confirms-ukad-296781 ]Case 1[/url]
[url= http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/another-british-amateur-cyclist-banned-anti-doping-offences-297031?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social#YWygB4xkTXbqBFg5.99 ]Case 2[/url]
Pretty sad really. I guess the question is - how common is this?
I know (or rather have been told) that people playing rugby at very low standards dope.. I guess even gym monkey 'roiders dope and they arent being competive at anything.
NOPE, But i'm pretty sure we are going to! Both in their 40's, old enough and daft enough to know better.
It's a catapostrophe!
Both in their 40's
GOing all out with the mid-life crisis!
Wherever people compete there will be cheats. Even roider's are just competing to be stronger and look better than the rest of us. Sometimes it seems not to matter if the competition even knows they are competing. Incomplete personalities imo.
I'm sure there are many other's they haven't caught.
many other's
I hope that was done on purpose!
Some people probably don't see it as a big deal (me). Yes it is bad in professional sport as it is cheating/giving unfair advantage but the affects to the person health are no more a concern to me than if they smoke or drink.
Total loser.
Shame they have to waste the planet's oxygen.
Hopefully someone close to them can help them get the mental care they need.
[quote=kerley ]Yes it is bad in professional sport as it is cheating/giving unfair advantage
It is in amateur sport too. Do you think it matter's less?
Whose doper?
Me, y'all, with a def OJ
Edit: Drac edit knackered that.
Personally I think STRAVA users should be eligible for testing......
I have discussed this with friends as it is quite rife in the German bike racing scene. There is actually quite a bit of money involved as a lot of the top amateurs get a lot of sponsorship.
It's a catapostrophe!
It's a badly used apostrophe more like
Personally I think STRAVA users should be eligible for testing......
Positive for beer and pies for me
Not that surprised.
I'm pretty sure I've come across substance abuse in an amateur environment - whether it's in a gym or in a race.
[quote=ampthill ]Personally I think STRAVA users should be eligible for testing......
I don't think there's actually anything against doping in the term's and condition's though.
Didn't you do these last year?
I'm over 40 and a dope
I'm over 40 and I'm dope. Word ta ya moms.
kerley - MemberSome people probably don't see it as a big deal (me).
Really? It's a pretty sad indication of how pervasive doping is. Which may not matter if you don't compete, may not even matter to you personally if you do (I doubt many mid-field sports cat riders are up to their eyeballs), but clearly has repercussions for younger amateurs
theboatman - Member
Even roider's are just competing to be stronger and look better than the rest of us
Look better? 😯
[img] https://goo.gl/images/8f3pTg [/img]
Posted this on the TT forum (as in timetrialling, not the hairdressers car) but it applies here too
Whilst I'm completely against what doping has done to the professional side of the sport I can almost understand it - mortgage to pay, kids to feed and so on. There is a financial gain to be made by injecting or popping a few pills. Utterly wrong but if its between continuing to earn a living or losing your home, then I suppose some feel they have no choice. I can almost come to terms with why Evans thought he needed to dope - a young impressionable kid wanting to do well and possibly having a future in the sport. The finger there should be pointed at those that supported him
What I struggle to come to terms with is why someone fairly mediocre would dope to win something like the national 12? And not only dope, but fabricate some unbelievable story for the first test, then question the validity of the tests following being caught for a second substance. I can only assume that it would be for bragging rights, or to feel superior to others in the competition which in turn is completely cancelled out by the deceit when he actually tested positive. 'Yeah, I'm brilliant and I beat all of you' loses its clout somewhat when you cry about having a bottle tampered with, only for that story to be shown for what it really is. As for trying to get out of it on a technicality, well it just makes a bad situation even worse.
In my opinion there's something drastically wrong with someones mental state when they feel the need to do any/all of this. If you're so desperate for a trophy there's plenty on ebay - get yourself one and engrave it with whatever you want without having to train a bit harder - save yourself the effort of getting up early or standing in the rain at the start. I race because I want to do well, I enjoy competition and I like having a target of beating someone and achieving it. It loses its point a bit when you're competing against others who have an (illegal) unfair advantage.
The idea that someone else alluded to on here that there are a large number of amateur riders doping is pretty sinister. I'm pretty awesome at being shelled out the back of a crit or road race but it angers me when I've done the training in the dark, cold and wet only for some idiot to cheat and beat me - why bother? Whether its TT's, road races or MTB most of us spend a considerable amount of both time and money trying to improve ourselves. Doing this makes a complete mockery of it all and the sooner its stamped out the better. I'd happily pay more if it meant more drugs testing,
Townsend doped and in my opinion nothing short of a lifetime ban will suffice. I've little time for anyone that thinks what he's done is acceptable or excusable
Really? It's a pretty sad indication of how pervasive doping is.
Yes really. I don't really care if everyone was taking things, up to them.
I am really surprised if people didn't realize that a lot of the big people in gyms are taking something. You don't get to look like that via natural means very easily.
And to me, someone messing around in a gym is no different to someone messing around on a bike. It is not great but doesn't bother me any more than people drinking/smoking/other stuff.
And to me, someone messing around in a gym is no different to someone messing around on a bike. It is not great but doesn't bother me any more than people drinking/smoking/other stuff.
It bothers me when I'm competing against them - or can't get into a road race because there's not enough spaces and dopers are taking them based on results.
I couldn't care less what some meathead in the gym wants to do with his body, thats up to them. If a cyclist wants to dope so he can ride faster for longer then go for it, but don't compete.
[quote=kerley ]And to me, someone messing around in a gym is no different to someone messing around on a bike.
Your opinion. But of course it is - somebody doing drug's in a gym is doing no harm to anybody else and I couldn't care less about that (I might be scathing about them, but that's as far as it goes). Somebody doing drug's to compete in bike racing is cheating all the other rider's they beat. Which is just as bad as doing it in professional sport, which you do appear to think is wrong.
What gets me is that the chap wasn't competing yet got banned. That surely means that many people should be as well, including many here. How many STWers are BC members and have asthma? Got a TUE for that inhaler? I bet I have consumed something that I shouldn't have whilst a BC member. Sorry but that case is just stupid. Taking drugs is not wrong if its not aiding performance. They may harm you but no one has a right to stop you hurting yourself. To cheat, naughty , but unless you are competing you are not cheating. Drug taking in sport is wrong because the rules ban them. Not competing? Go for, its your choice .
[quote="kerley"]Yes really. I don't really care if everyone was taking things, up to them.
I suspect a non-racer won't give a toss about doping in sport. As they are completely unaffected in any way shape or form.
[quote="mattsccm"]Got a TUE for that inhaler?Nope, not anymore. Did have one. Don't even know if i need one now.
I suspect a non-racer won't give a toss about doping in sport. As they are completely unaffected in any way shape or form.
True, I don't give a toss but not because I am unaffected. I am personally unaffected by many things I do give a toss about but they tend to be a bit more serious (to me) than people messing about on bikes.
You can probably tell, I am not into competitive sport...
No matter whether they are pro or amateur, front of the pack or back of the pack, some people are just driven by being the "best" they can be.
Apart from the harm you're doing to your body, its not really that different to the masses of riders who are well over-biked. They want to find an artificial means of getting one over some of their competitors.
Irrespective of whether you think the National 12 was a "big deal" or not (as someone who can't win it), if someone thought they were capable of being in the mix I'm sure there are enough personality types that would happily seek all means possible. We all like to win stuff, its just some people are happier to make bigger sacrifices / take bigger risks to achieve it.
Even mid-pack, I'm sure there are enough people who would be perfectly happy to dope to achieve milestones in road time trialling etc.
(For the record, whilst I can understand it, I don't think it makes it any less wrong. But in the case of mid-pack riders there is the argument that they are only cheating themselves etc etc)
How many STWers are BC members and have asthma? Got a TUE for that inhaler? I bet I have consumed something that I shouldn't have whilst a BC member.
Remember, asthama inhalers no longer require a TUE (common misconception!)
That being said, I'm sure there are plenty of examples of amateurs riding mid-pack on medically prescribed drugs which they haven't gone to the formality of getting a TUE for, or taken something "out of competition" which would never get a TUE in any event.
[quote=mattsccm ]What gets me is that the chap wasn't competing yet got banned.
Which chap? The first one got nicked at an event, no particular info on the other, though the implication is that he does compete. Otherwise a ban is completely pointless - if you don't compete it makes no difference to your life.
I had my best ever time over a local loop (by about 15 mins) after a roast chicken dinner and a bottle of red. Am I a doper ? Going the let the wife's tyres down next time i see her with the inhaler, cheating ****!
All four of the dopers mentioned on here raced at somewhere between a semi regular and "almost professional" level.
[quote=larkim ]That being said, I'm sure there are plenty of examples of amateurs riding mid-pack on medically prescribed drugs which they haven't gone to the formality of getting a TUE for, or taken something "out of competition" which would never get a TUE in any event.
This is where it gets tricky. I suspect I've probably done that at some point, and I imagine many others have. I think here we're relying on the drugs not giving them any real performance advantage (at best they're genuinely putting them back on a level playing field). According to the letter of the law they are guilty, and if they were a pro they would quite rightly get a ban, but personally I'm comfortable that there isn't generally drugs testing at such events* and such people aren't subject to out of competition testing.
*I've competed at the level just below the top in a different sport, and never seen drug testing at any event I've been to in any sport - though talking recently to somebody who was British champion in that back in my era he did occasionally see them at his events.
TBH, i saw less testing at pro events through the 80's and 90's than i did in amateur events in the 00's. Couldn't give you the actual numbers but i suspect i got tested more between "retirement" and actually giving up then i did between turning pro and the retirement. Still only single digits though.
W.P.O.D.
kerley - MemberI suspect a non-racer won't give a toss about doping in sport. As they are completely unaffected in any way shape or form.
True, I don't give a toss but not because I am unaffected. I am personally unaffected by many things I do give a toss about but they tend to be a bit more serious (to me) than people messing about on bikes.
You can probably tell, I am not into competitive sport...
Probably not the thread for you then eh? 😉 😕
Good post Flange.
It never ceases to amaze me how the STW forum has such massive differences in opinion. I know we are supposed to represent a broad spectrum of sosciety itself but as we are all on a Cycling forum you would think we could at least agree on something cycling orientated.
I don't intend banging on about doping myself as I harped on enough in the other related thread.
It is interesting though to see that whilst some couldn't give a shit either way dope or don't dope others who are competing at National level are. I do have a mate in BC who mentioned doping at amateur level including junior level and I was shocked. Nothing concrete figures wise or proof but empty Vials and syringes during and after events.
I do have a mate in BC who mentioned doping at amateur level [b]including junior level[/b] and I was shocked. Nothing concrete figures wise or proof but empty Vials and syringes during and after events.
This is what worries me. Having a kid on the way and being involved with a club that has a stong youth presence I'd rather that sort of pressure/option wasn't available.
Apparently Millar is there to make sure they don't get caught. Or something.
Please don't make me go through the whole David Millar debate again.....
The contributing factor or the deciding factor here for me is the Parents, if you can condone that then no amount of drivelling on by an Pro captured but done good is ever going to rectify the issue.
Which is the sad bit about the Gabriel Evans case - someone must have been advising and helping him to either buy or administer the PEDS which is frankly shocking and the most sinister part of it.
I'd like to know how many Cat3/4 riders are on something. Money clearly isn't an issue going off the kit they ride, its not a stretch to think that some of them are doping..
I race a little bit, but ineffectually... A place here or there makes no difference really. But if there was a proven safe performance booster I could get, I'd take it. Ride further and harder at the weekends, sounds like a win tbh. Only real concern is the added erosion.
[quote="xyeti"]Please don't make me go through the whole David Millar debate again.....Hardly a debate though is it. Got caught. Took the blame. Served his ban. Reinvented himself as a remarkably ineffective zealot. Earned even more money.
Unsurprising really when you consider the business his sister is in.
I am so screwed,
alcohol, caffeine, Vitamins I and P ... I am riddled.. and they let me achieve the occasional top 10 placing at various non events....and the occasional top 20 at more populated events...
*sits waiting for ban paperwork to drop through the letterbox..
[quote=ghostlymachine ]TBH, i saw less testing at pro events through the 80's and 90's than i did in amateur events in the 00's.
That's a fair point - me and the other chap I was talking to both retired from that at about the start of this century (I then competed at a higher level in a sport where AFAIK there's only ever been drug testing at one event globally). I guess things have changed a bit - though I presume you're still talking top end amateur?
[quote=Northwind ]But if there was a proven safe performance booster I could get, I'd take it. Ride further and harder at the weekends, sounds like a win tbh. Only real concern is the added erosion.
Wow - now there's another side to the debate. PEDs which genuinely enhance your life without harming anybody else!
The second link in the Ops post suggests the chap wasn't even racing. So if hes just a recreational cyclist then sure he shouldn't be allowed to complete, but hes done nothing wrong so not sure why its even a story.
I'm pretty sure some of the lads I cycle with would fail a UKAD test....given they don't race either its not really a point of concern.
FYI..I think drugs in sport are BAD...
Yeah, you appear to be right. Just joined BC for insurance i guess. I saw (at the time) quite a few snippets suggesting otherwise, but mostly just club/closed events. Nothing that BC would have been interested in. But he was still signed up to BCs anti drug thing, same as everyone else with a licence.The second link in the Ops post suggests the chap wasn't even racing.
FWIW I was recommended to hand my licence in when i started on a course of medication and treatment for my back about 3 years ago. I'd never have got a TUE and wasn't ever likely to race at any sort of level again. Just walking for more than another couple of years was looking like being unlikely.
[quote="aracer"]I guess things have changed a bit - though I presume you're still talking top end amateur?Sort of National/european series elite level then a similar sort of thing at masters. So yeah. Lots of top flight ex-pros. Quite a few have been busted in the last few years as well.
Me, y'all, with a def OJEdit: Drac edit knackered that.
Sorry.
But if there was a proven safe performance booster I could get, I'd take it. Ride further and harder at the weekends, sounds like a win tbh.
There is, its called a Turbo Trainer 😛
What about taking something to aid dropping your mates on the climbs? A little bit of harm to pride maybe but probably worth it 🙂Wow - now there's another side to the debate. PEDs which genuinely enhance your life without harming anybody else!
Don't be daft! You'll suggest eating fewer pies and cakes nextThere is, its called a Turbo Trainer
Sounds this needs merging with the xc numbers down thread.
[quote=nickjb ]What about taking something to aid dropping your mates on the climbs? A little bit of harm to pride maybe but probably worth it
That's called an e-bike 😉 Though I'm not quite sure who's pride is harmed in that case.
Actually that does make me think that one of those seat tube motors would be quite cool to have.
Interesting he had a failed test for Modafinil, I have wondered before how prevalent that is on things like the transcontinental and RAAM
fifeandy - MemberThere is, its called a Turbo Trainer
Tried that, too many negative side effects.
Ok cards on the table.
I've used Clen, Ephedrine, GW501516, GHRP6, Dianabol, Anadrol, Winstrol, Anavar, Testosterone, Trenbolone, Nandrolone, Insulin etc......
I don't race from one year to the next, I don't feel I'm cheating anybody.....part of it is my job, went to an extremely aggressive patient who was in my face....twice my size, top off and ready to go....no police attendance obviously.
I quietly and out of earshot of his wife, my cremate and his kids told him he was 'fat, old and I'd break him.... he thought better and backed off.
Not proud but I've been doing this job 16 yrs, I'm nearly 40 and would like to do another 16 yrs.....if some PED use and regular exercise means I stay safe and come home to Mrs Deviant then I'm happy with that.
Let the moralizing begin.
what job do you do? 😯 If a denist possibly overkill
Are there any sports other than bodybuilding where doping is legal?
Is it actually illegal in any sport or just against the rules?
Paramedic....it's rougher than when I first started 16yrs ago....police cut backs don't help.
I can see how it's very easy to get caught doing this
go out and have a bit of music ,a gram or two of nu nu on Saturday night
you never know what your local drug lord is chopping his marching powder with but Sunday it's probably not out of your sytem
On a serious note when I was studentish I knew a lad who did amphetamines before a race sometimes he would win other times we had to go find him having a party for one in the woods
there was a (locally) famous rugby league case a few years ago. Lad who was a coalman was using something to keep his back together from hefting 50 kilo coal sacks and rugby training, banned for life (i think). Not always as straightforward as it seems but yeah someone pushing it on a youngster is seriously dark and the ban hard on the kid if they were being coerced (might not have been like). If you're a mamil using PEDs just to climb the ranks of the distinctly average you maybe need to settle some issues with your mummy and re-evaluate.
Deviant aside, who do we reckon's using on here, then? 😈
I think my results point squarely to my innocence.
Are there any sports other than bodybuilding where doping is legal?
Strong man type stuff and some power lifting bodies. Not explicitly 'legal', but not mentioned in the rules. Which I guess means there will be lots of sports on the fringes where it's not banned.
deviant - MemberParamedic....it's rougher than when I first started 16yrs ago....police cut backs don't help.
Can imagine that can get sketchy, esp. late at night
The second case (where the bloke wasn't actively competing) is an interesting one. The PEDs concerned might offer a performance advantage in cycling, but that wasn't necessarily why he bought them.
I'm slightly uncomfortable with UKAD's ability, as a quasi-judicial organisation, to publicly shame someone who isn't actually competing in a sport.
Perhaps there has already been an actual proper criminal case around the importation of these drugs - I'd be more relaxed if this had happened and was reported in the UKAD press release, rather than the idea that someone who hadn't been convicted of any criminal act being dealt with this way.
As posts on social media say - its am extreme way to get a strava KOM!
I cannot concieve of someone doping who wasnt at least considering competing in future, it would be just bizarre
Also, apparently, as a BC license holder he signs himself up to no doping,
It's not illegal to take drugs for sport. It's against the rules.Is it actually illegal in any sport or just against the rules?
What is illegal (depending on where you live) is owning/taking drugs that require a prescription, without having the necassary paperwork, or doing things with drugs that are controlled in other ways. Like importing prescription drugs carries big fines and jail time in some countries.
You can also be prosecuted for fraud if you've been caught and can be considered to have financially gained (sporting fraud, mainly France and Italy IIRC).
There are some specific, local laws about cheating, mostly tied into whatever the sporting fraud thing is actually called. IIRC the altitude tents are covered by this in France, but not anywhere else. So owning one in France, if you are a professional sportsman, or hold a licence to compete, is an offence. I'm not 100% on this, but i think i can have one, as i don't have a licence, so am not a professional or elite athlete.
Not 100% on the detail as i've not looked into French (or Italian) rules for a couple of decades!
What is illegal (depending on where you live)
Not illegal buying or using in the UK (for most PEDs). Selling them is though.
So something like possession with intent to distribute/supply"? or some other legal jargon.
Probably what the second bloke on page one got done under some derivative of.