[Closed] Have skills courses become the latest de rigueur accessory?

beanieripper - Member
best bet for people needing a skills course is a hardtail, or a bmx..

This does raise an interesting point, and certainly seems to have ruffled a few feathers 🙂

All the young lads down at my local skate / bmx park spend every free minute they have hanging out down there. Being youthful types with few responsibilities, they seem to have an awful lot of free time. They are constantly learning new tricks off each other, and there are several loose 'groupings' of riders - each group brings fresh perspectives and new ideas.

So they spend [i]a lot[/i]of time either riding, or watching others riding. They could be said to be quite commited. They ride with loads of different folk. Us weekend warriors perhaps don't have the same amount of free time to do that - a skills course is just an intensive short cut to acheiving the same end. I'd do one if I could make the time / money....

Can you not do these without going on a course?

I couldn't, and don't mind admitting it, so I went on a course or two, now i'm a much better rider which means the enjoyment factor of riding has increased which means i ride more which has meant the improvement is ongoing 🙂

I maybe somewhat biased. However, I cannot see how coaching cannot help those who wish to improve. There are just far too many people, who have only ever had a positive experience from quality coaching.

Mountain bike skills coaching, skiing, etc.etc. Dont think I have heard of anyone saying it was not worthwhile.

Obviously, its very important that the coach is capable of coaching the techniques /skills to meet your specific needs, and delivers the session so that you both understand / absorb the requirements. This will then improve your techniques, skills and confidence.

ampthill - Member

This is the sort of thread that really depresses me. the whole tone is wrong.

I don't mind if you don't agree thats fine. Just don't start a thread whinging about it because its really pritty harmless isn't it?

Who's winging? I was asking a question about something I'd observed a lot recently and I was wondering if it's become a cool (for want of a better word) thing to do.

As for telling me what to start threads about...look around you and jog on. Nobody asked you to read it.

nick3216

but the easiest way to improve your riding is surely just to ride more

only if you can video yourself whilst doing it, review the video while still out there, recognise the faults in your riding, be honest enough to admit to them, know how to correct them and advise yourself on applying them.

It's easier to just ride with a skills coach once in a while.

Well yes, if I had a complete inability to imagine or analyse anything without a camera crew and video playback it would surely be easier to go on a training course.

Maybe I'm some sort of freak but I do think I have an ability to figure some things out without video playback, nor do have a problem admiting my own failings to myself. Some things are actually possible to decipher and remedy without professional help you know.

I'm pretty sure I'm not unique in possessing these gifts either but life must be pretty hard without them.

This does raise an interesting point, and certainly seems to have ruffled a few feathers

All the young lads down at my local skate / bmx park spend every free minute they have hanging out down there. Being youthful types with few responsibilities, they seem to have an awful lot of free time. They are constantly learning new tricks off each other, and there are several loose 'groupings' of riders - each group brings fresh perspectives and new ideas.

I spent a good part of last summer down the park with my lad.

I learned loads of stuff by riding with the kids, practice with the right people and you can better yourself if you have the mind for it.

Having said that pay the people who can if you're time limited or have a mental ting going on. The kids have no fear, which may hurt you.

I want to know what these 'bad habits' are that people keep going on about. I've yet to see someone doing skag on the trails. Or is it the crafty cig you have half way round? Or the pint afterwards?

Shalarim

Leon is currently relocating his skills courses from Swinley to the Surrey Hills. His website - http://www.mountainbikeskillscourses.co.uk/locationf.asp
is currently being updated to include new location and dates.

If you would like to book a course in the Surrey Hills, just contact the office and I am sure he will organise a course on a date to suit your requirements. If you require Individual Tuition, he can also provide this for £158.

This thread is getting tiresome.

Why don't all the naysayers post up some video of them riding and then we can see how flawless their technique is, or not.

I need psychological work on consistency. I have the skills but every so often I just lose it.

Its called stress from work effecting my riding.

Not really much you can do about that except have some sports(?) psychology etc?

Have you ever gotten to something and thought 'I can't do this' (yet in the past you've done sections far more technical etc?). Then later on you'll easy ride it but flip over and not ride the other stuff.

Thats what I'm talking about. Consistency. How do you deal with work stress effecting you on the bike? How do you lock out/relax and chill for riding? (Which is the whole point of riding IMO for me).

I've never been able to jump etc- its not really for me/not of interest. I've no interest in becoming a technically advanced rider or super-fast down a section. Just smooth, flowing and relaxed.

Again stress.

Bollocks to technique, just have some fun.

The analogy with golf is very flawed.

Golf is very much more a mental game than riding a bike.

Sure you may hit mental barriers when faced with a drop off, but with golf you face mental barriers on every shot, increasingly so as the number of hazards in front of you increase. Plus you have the frustrations when you play a bad shot, etc.

Because golf is a static game you have to play the game of trying to keep your mind under control - the classic left/right idea where the right side of the mind is the one that can do the action, but the left side is the critical one and you fight to keep the left side quiet.

Tennis is somewhat similar as you have a fair bit of time between shots to think and it is one of the reasons tennis player grunt so much, to keep themselves occupied with a 1-2 thought process.

Squash is correspondingly less similar as the time between shots is less, meaning your brain has less time to get in the way.

Mountain biking may have some of these elements, but it is much more about forcing yourself to commit to something.

Skiing is similar to mountain biking - faced with a steep slope you have to force yourself to commit to it, to moving your weight into the turn, through that little 'window' that is just in front of your downhill boot.

The differences are one of the reasons I gave up golf and took up mountain biking. It is massively less frustrating than golf, or tennis, which means that you can actually enjoy several hours on a bike and not suffer any of the frustrations of golf.

But then again cleaning the ball out the centre of my 1988 Hogan Apex redlines is a pretty good feeling...

Just smooth, flowing and relaxed

that is the reason I went for a course with Jedi, you should see him flowing down some tight turns in some singletrack - super smooth and way faster than it looks.

It all comes from correct bike positioning, correct foot/pedal placement, correct braking technique, correct 'looking'.

The footwork/body positioning aspect is very like skiing and edge control, apart from your body weight positioning being a bit different as you are loading just one edge (the tyre), not two, and the grip profiles of dirt and snow are different.

I want to know what these 'bad habits' are that people keep going on about

A fair number of people descend with their weight on the back wheel because that's how their mates told them to do it.

Turnerguy doesn't matter a jot if you can't disengage from work.

what a touchy thread, a few people seem quite offended, and immature, lol no suprise there then.. I dont need to prove anything to anyone as I have at no point implied I am gods gift at anything... it's impossible to have any other point of view on this forum without people getting upset and offended about their kn0b size... If a skills course works for you then that's fine, good luck to youif you need it for your type of riding... tbh my job entails way more risk and exertion and education than riding a bike which seem like a relitavely un complex skill set to me...unless you are Danny MacAsgill....oh and I do have a few bad habits when riding, i pick my nose and smoke the odd ciggy!

Its like driving. You can ALWAYS improve from advanced handling tuition of course. However its a question of where do you stop and where are you happy?

I'm happiest on singletrack that flows. I don't give a **** about murdering and jumping a DH course. 🙂

i pick my nose and smoke the odd ciggy!

whilst riding downhill? now that's a skill 😀

It's good to get the pov of some instructors on here, I had one a couple of years ago, it was very useful, rather than hitting the ST we spent a lot of time doing basic bike control skills, track stands, endos, hops, manuals, seatpost position, foot position, stuff you don't stop and practice yourself.

Turnerguy doesn't matter a jot if you can't disengage from work.

doubt that is the problem - I would bet that I am more of a workaholic than you - ask my wife 🙁

Maybe try a course with Jedi - read his blog pages with people taking on his northshore - not that you would get me doing that...

Who'd have thought that skills training was some sort of mountain biking class warfare issue. I'm mystified - if people want to learn to ride their bike better and enjoy themselves more as a result, what's the problem?

..we spent a lot of time doing basic bike control skills, track stands, endos, hops, manuals, seatpost position, foot position, stuff you don't stop and practice yourself

quite offended, and immature, lol

ROFL LMFAO etc etc etc

Who'd have thought that skills training was some sort of mountain biking class warfare issue. I'm mystified - if people want to learn to ride their bike better and enjoy themselves more as a result, what's the problem?

This is STW old boy, of course there is a problem.

Good to see the "Gods of Riding" are in fine form again.

I had a half day coaching session with Steve Mayer in Whistler (it was a birthday present, and a damn fine one too). I found it incredibly useful and learned a lot, it was also extremely enjoyable. Unlike some on here I freely admit that there are MANY areas I can improve in. Some such as fitness and stamina I can address myself. Others such as technical skills, confidence and general tips from a more proficient rider I could pick up from coaching. A course with Jedi is on the "to do" list when I eventually get round to it.

shalarim - Member

Phil where/which course you on I found one site offering courses in swinley but they never appear to have any dates

hey dude, sorry about the delayed reply... mrsconsequence travelled up to herts to spend a day with jedi, i've not heard many good things at all about some of the training offered at swinley... i think (could very well be wrong) that one of the local cycling clubs offers training there, not heard or read any positive reviews.... in fact have heard that the local coaches have been for training with other well known coaches! if it was me... i'd just go straight to the top, any forum search will quickly identify a certain chap (jedi) and other names that are worth checking out 🙂

someone mentioned a coach moving to swinley earlier on in the thread... heard nothing about him so please dont think i'm slating that particular coach! he could be awesome for all i know 🙂

Hi Phil

Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, Leon is a great coach and was only operating at Swinley for a short time. He has no connection whatsoever, with any other training providers based at Swinley, and has only ever received positive feedback. -

http://mountainbikeinstructorleonmaclean.blogspot.com/

beanieripper - Member
what a touchy thread, a few people seem quite offended, and immature, lol no suprise there then..

See, I aspire to be a better rider and a better troll. Sometimes you can learn from people that are better than you at something... other times you can learn from people that are worse...

I did a skills course because I only started mountain biking at 40 with some road fitness but zero bike skills. Because as a kid our bikes were my family's only form of transport they'd been simply a mechanism of getting from A to B, all serious stuff and not for fun at all, oh no, certainly not! As a result I got to adulthood without having the skill to bump up a kerb. The real basics were missing. Skills course taught me front wheel lifts, drop offs, moving my weight backwards and forwards, and I get a lot more fun out of riding now, as I don't end up off and pushing when things get a little rocky. Now I know the basics I take time to practice while I'm out and about, focusing on keeping these fresh.

I don't believe it!
Pretty new to mountain biking (at mature age :wink:) got my first decent bike last year, Mrs astounded at the cost.
She continued to be astonished at the regular 'cost' occasions my new hobby seemed littered with.
Then out of the blue she coughs up a big wedge of money to buy me a voucher for a skills course for me birthday! This, while I'm still trying to negotiate funds for repairs/tyres/pads/fashion accessories etc etc.
Women!!

Still, am looking forward to the course though 😛

Perhaps there's a correlation between the age people started riding, and those who feel they need a course?

I can appreciate those who might have ventured into the world of mountain bikes (perhaps from a roadie background, or just pootling to the shops) might feel the need to go on courses, to bring their skills up to scratch. Other started learning bike skills from their childhood, so 20/30/40 years down the line is seems natural.

There seems to be a general agreement that Jedi / Cambell / Oxley / etc are very good at what they do.

WTF not? are you too embarrassed to practice these simple skills outside your own house? if so I find that quite sad (seems pretty normal around here though)

???????? of course not, I merely meant that time on the bike was automatically spent hitting the trails and putting the miles in, rather than just practicing skills.

Perhaps there's a correlation between the age people started riding, and those who feel they need a course

Not my experience - i'd been riding for nearly 20 years before i had the chance to experience some coaching. Can say for me it was quick way to move off the plateau i was on. Made me a better rider than Beanieripper so well worth it.

All top sportsmen, whatever the sport have coaches (as long as their is enough money in the sport to financially provide them). Most will have been picked up as promising youngsters and put into training schemes where they received coaching from an early age to build them into the world beaters they now are, they will all have natural talent by the bucket load, but still needed the coaching to bring them to the top.
If it helps them, I am sure as hell it can help me too, and if your taking Danny Mac as an example, just think how good he could have been 😉

rewski - When you take up mountain biking, aren't you trying to embrace it for all that it is?

Many would consider the practise time outside your house as an important part as being out on the trail.

If you can make time for forums in evenings and skills courses, you can make time for practising skills outside your house.

I think skills course just help because the time is being set aside for the practise, appointments you're obliged to make. Rather than sitting comfy in a chair at home, thinking about practising, then bottling it due to lack of motivation. 20 minutes out of your TV/forums evening time is nothing and is far more relaxing/rewarding than the above.

Plus if you spend the time learning to do the basics well, the trails will be more rewarding.

You get out what you put in, IMO, skills courses are just an obligation to put the time in.

MSP - Coaching at the top level in MTB IMO does not involve skills training, simply psychological and fitness training. To be at the top of your game in any sport, it takes a combination of the best natural ability and the determination. Coaches can't help with the natural ability, can only help with the determination.

If you want to take other sports, what separates messi from 99.999% of footballer from the rest, natural ability, of which cannot be taught. The same would go for sam hill, steve peat etc.

i'd hope that a big part of the training i'm booked on will have a big psychological element! any training should have surely?

one of my biggest skills gaps on a bike is psychological.... confidence mainly. same went for mrsconsequence, a jedi day has sorted that right out 🙂

???????? of course not, I merely meant that time on the bike was automatically spent hitting the trails and putting the miles in,

GW - same here, bikes are toys, play things. if im on a bike, i wont be stting on it pedalling unless it's up hill.

Just need to build this "play" mentality into every moment you're on a bike and the skills will soon come.

sitting on a bike, pedalling ain't fun.

If you want to take other sports, what separates messi from 99.999% of footballer from the rest, natural ability, of which cannot be taught. The same would go for sam hill, steve peat etc.

Natural ability can't be taught, but it can be enhanced. I bet Messi has spent thousands of hours practising taking free kicks from hundreds of angles, trying different things both with a coach and without. When he was younger coaches will have had him practice kicks using boring drills that he would have just not done left to his own devices, no top football player would get to the top without coaching. MTB doesn't have the financial clout to provide the coaching to navigate the promising youngsters to the top, if it did the skills at the top level would be even higher than it is now.

GW - exactly the same as me... apart from the skids, as I like my tyres 8)

See how long you can remain stationary with a trackstand (useful at the lights)... see how far you can wheelie..one handed.. or no footed... see how far you can pull stoppies down the hill...no-footed stoppies....

The skills you can practise just riding to the shops for the sunday paper is endless...

i'm off today so will be riding as always 🙂
gw, see you later in the month i hope if i can get up to ya

That kind of skill seems pretty useless on the trail though..

sitting on a bike, pedalling ain't fun.

I used to spend quite alot of my riding time manualling a bmx round a local supermarket carpark, along with similar stunts. It was lots of fun, but I havent done it for years.

All I do now is sit on my bike and pedal and have no fun. I dont know whats happened.

I've not read much of the above. IMO the demographic on this site probably lends to coaching/training. The older you get the harder it is to learn new skills so the more help you can get the better. Also people here also have disposable income so need to spend it some where.

When your a kid you learn from getting out riding, riding with others better than yourself etc. You also learn from your mistakes and as a kid that might just mean a bruise. When your middle aged etc that can mean a broken bone.

Cool Tony, just let me know when. 8)

Interesting topic. First off, I know the OP, and I can assure anyone on here it's a genuine topic and it has raised decent responses so far. I've been on two coaching session over the last 3 years when I started riding again. I found one beneficial, as it really pushed me further than I though. But the biggest improvements have come about riding with faster guys, watching them and asking them how they do things.

But back to the original point, I have seen an increase in conversation amongst fellow riders about going on coaching courses, and most aren't sure why they want too. Want to get faster, want to have more fun, but you need to define it. I'm shite at cornering fast, and can't really jump with confidence, so those would be the things I'd need to work on first.

But the biggest improvements have come about riding with faster guys, watching them and asking them how they do things.

Free weekly skills course.

[b]@ _tom_ [/b]

Trackstands are a very useful skill out 'on the trails', same goes for bunny hops (ever come across a fallen tree in your path, and have to slow down to a snails pace to ride over it? Wish you could hop over it and maintain speed?).

Doing stoppies sharpens your front brake skills, including weight distribution with the back wheel in the air. J-turns (180 degree curved stoppie) are great for learning how to corner while under heavy front braking... and yes, before people shout "you should brake before you enter the corner" there are times when you need to.

Wheelies.. ever lifted your front wheel up to avoid a puddle, but had to drop it back down a split second later? Pop up the front wheel and you can wheelie through streams/large puddles, without getting soaked (if you don't want to).

More and more trail centres feature man-made obstacles (skinnys seem to be popular - Gisburn has a long skinny log, Grizedale North Face Trail has quite a few skinnys too). By learning to ride along the very narrow white markers in a car park, you will learn precision slow speed bike control.

Messing about in a car park for 20mins is actually quite beneficial for gaining skills to take off-road...

mark b .... your the only person sad enough to actually think your a better rider than someone youve never met....shows how silly you are. you know what, you may well be a better rider than me..who knows..who cares..wave your kn0b elsewhere..

There are a lot of snobs on STW who also are very jealous sounding - Who knew.

There was a comment about bad habits, so I will try to explain a few things Stuart at forest freeride picked up on when I spent a day with him:

* Understanding causes of the "The Fear", its associations with events, other riders and the environment. How it impacts your body dynamics, and hence your riding ability. How the mind game impacts the physical game.

* Dropping my rear foot a bit when descending. I thought I was keeping my pedals level, but when descending I tend(ed) to drop my rear foot, raising my lead foot. This creates balance problems from the rearward bias and also caused the bike to slightly track to one side under braking.

* Looking too near. I still struggle with this a bit esp. when tired. But looking all the way forward to where you want to be and beyond obstacles is key. I practice this a lot - looking at the exit/braking zone creates the psychological conditions to let go of the brakes and go.

* Linking obstacles into longer sections. Rather than braking before each obstacle, looking to the end of the sequence and riding the whole lot brakes off.

* Braking unnecessarily - Understanding why even light braking impacts balance, suspension and traction just when you need these to be at their highest.

* leaning off the back of the bike unnecessarily - why it can create balance problems and loss of control.

* The dangers of fast rolling drops - how pre-jumping and pushing the bike keeps it level for a smooth landing - still a work in progress for non-rollable drops.

It may be obvious to you, but I really didn't get any of this stuff until it was explained, demonstrated and practiced.

finally some sense on the last page from GW and a couple of others. bikes are for messing around and playing on, if you want to improve your skills you need to build that into your mentality. don't just blindly follow the guy/girl in front and ride the trail exactly how they do, look for challenges & stuff to pop off - even if its crap and you get 2" of air, you're still going to be improving your skills and learning how your bike feels underneath you.

someone said they simply don't practice manuals, track stands, endos, hops etc when they go out on their bike because they want to 'hit the trail' or 'put some miles in'. well, what about when you arrive at the car park before you set off, or when you have to stop for gates to be opened?? stuff like that where you can be playing (aka learning skills) rather than stopping and chatting!

obviously there are a lot of folk who have paid for these course and REALLY felt the benefit from them, but pretty much everyone has said that the skills have been 'back to basics', so why then do you need to pay someone to learn them?? the skills aren't complex, they're a combination fairly simple motor movements, balance and vision - something which we all do every day. of course if you don't have the time to go out and practice then speaking to someone who can break these things down or tell you some specific movements will be of benefit, but you still got to go and put the practice in afterwards.

finally, 'play' is actually a learning process - so if you want to improve your skills think about how you can play around on your bike more every time you go out on it.

Trackstands are a very useful skill out 'on the trails'

I guess it depends whether you're riding proper techy stuff but for me if I'm slow enough to be able to trackstand on the trails I usually ride, then I've done something wrong 😛 I'm alright at trackstands though, I find them useful on the road at lights or junctions.

So it looks like in general we have three schools of thought

live and let live, the reasonble majority who are happy for you to choose whether or not to do things

People who've been on skills courses and found them useful

People who haven't been on skills courses but think they are a bad thing

Skills courses aren't a necessity by any means but I bet there are very few people that couldn't learn something that improves their riding ability whilst on one (assuming it's a well respected instructor etc.).

Sure you can learn most/all of what you need yourself if you have the patience and time, you'll probably pick up a few more injuries along the way though as you figure out that the first 3 variations you try are the wrong way (rather than just have someone show you the right way).

Riding is one thing but flow is something else, there's very few people out there that seemingly effortlessly work a trail and carry speed, even fewer that can teach others how to do it.

Heck when I went to Uni and had some basic coaching in swimming it was an eye opener just how much was involved in the freestyle stroke arm movement, riding a bike over rough terrain at speed is far more complicated.

[i]People who haven't been on skills courses but think they are a bad thing[/i]

Can you find me this bit, cos I don't think that's what people are saying.

I used to play a lot of golf. In golf, it's pretty common to have regular coaching from the local pro. If you don't do this it's very easy to practise bad habits. Usually in golf it's your grip/posture/balance slowly over time getting away from the optimal and you correcting for this. It's very difficult to observe your bad habits yourself. A good pro can identifiy these for you. Often this is enought to bring you back on track.

Exactly the same can be said of riding. Even the bad habits are pretty similar posture and balance.

So training can be good. I did a DH course with Mr Sorrel and it definately identified a few things I was doing wrong. I can go round right hand bends much better than left. Without his observation I would never had knowmn this and be able to try and reslolve it!

So play is practice, but not necessarily good practice!

Training is a good thing!

st colin

Interesting topic. First off, I know the OP, and I can assure anyone on here it's a genuine topic and it has raised decent responses so far.

Yes, I was curious about this as I thought I was observing a trend or a phenomenon of sorts happening and wanted to pool opinion on it. As I said at the start of the thread I don't doubt the benefits of a course for some people. What I was interested in was whether doing a course had become a bit of a rite of passage or perceived as the latest "must have thing".

People quickly started defending the validity/necessity of coaching but the thread as a whole has satisfied my curiosity.

Some of the responses have been surprising, like the guy who felt you need a camera crew to figure anything out, but on the whole it's been interesting reading. Personally I treat most rides as training rides, I'm always trying to build and improve on technique and get to measure myself against good riders on a regular basis. I feel this has had clear benefits for me, though I would never rule out going on a course just out of curiosity as much as anything else.

So, there are two schools of thought:

1: Those who want someone to teach them how to ride a bike 'properly'.

2: Those who ride a bike and just have fun.

Gotz da skills to pay da billz.

Yes or:

1. Those that are shit on a bike and dead lazy and cant be arsed putting the hours in to learn how to ride properly and want it all to come easy to them like sitting around watching TV is.

2. Those that are good on a bike because they've put the hours in practicing and hence when they ride they have more fun. They cant understand the lazy attitude of other riders - all it takes is a bit of motivation and a good work ethic

Possibly this ^^^ 🙂

mark b .... your the only person sad enough to actually think your a better rider than someone youve never met....shows how silly you are. you know what, you may well be a better rider than me..who knows..who cares..wave your kn0b elsewhere..

Whoops - seem to have touched a nerve there. After the 'it's intimidating in here' thread i can only profusely apologise for the trauma caused.

not sure a training course is on a par with buying blingy kit

it might me more comparable with a weekend away riding - in terms of time, money, enjoyment, upskilling.....

(certainly a damn sight easier to organise myself and a coach for a day, than it is to arrange half a dozen working blokes with a variety of family commitments to decamp to some big hills and a different pub for the weekend.)

Interesting discussion.

My personal take on this is that mountain biking has now 'reached a certain age'/maturity/development and like the life cycle of other outdoor actvities, once the early pioneers & adopters have carved a path there follows a period of popularity as the activity gains public acceptance.

Clearly there is little or no instruction for the early pioneers as they are the ones blazing the trail, but once the public acceptance increases, the rest of us who aren't 'natural athletes' and need to put the requisite '10,000 hours' in to reach a modicum of skill level

... or we pay for coaching/instruction because:

- time is short
- we want to steepen or ramp up the learning curve
- we are currently frustrated with our current skill level and want to progress.
etc ...

Within the snowsports industry it seems to be perfectly acceptable and indeed commonplace in both Europe & North America to have instruction in order to address these shortcomings as for most people the time on the snow is somewhat limited and many people want to maximise their enjoyment and progression.

... anecdotally the exceptions to this often seems to be the British who seemingly take some stoic pride in not having ski/snowbard lessons and perpetuating their bad habits. (I'm not sure why this is but there seems to be a similar reluctance within mountain biking, although I think things are beginning to change a bit and the concept of 'coaching' in order to improve your enjoyment is becoming more accepted)

With very few exceptions almost all of the very best snowsport participants I've met have undertaken some form of instruction or coaching at some point because a decent instructor can:

- provide a clear explanation of desired goals and achievements
- de-tune a demonstration so that the maneuver can be broken down into sections
- facilitate an appropiate learning environment
- determine what 'learning styles' an individual may have and tailor the course accordingly
- provide relevant feedback

Sure, some of your mates can do all of this (although many can't) and given enough time you would probably figure most of it out for yourself, but even then you might not - until someone points out the error of your ways:

I thought I rode with my elbows quite bent and relaxed until I saw video footage that proved otherwise ...

So I would say no ... skills courses aren't the latest 'must have' accesory ... but [a good one] can make a big difference to your riding enjoyment!

I have never done an MTB skills course but given the time & money I may well do one in the future. I think it would be fun & I may learn to do some things I can't do or improve on the things I can.

I have been on motorcycle training on various tracks around the country and having someone take the time to watch what you do then give you advice that is tailored to you can be a much faster way to learn or to improve. Simply following someone better can teach you a thing or two & give you the confidence to try something as you know if they can do it so can you, I think coaching can teach you more & faster.

Who does the training makes a big difference and you may have noticed the best sports coaches in various sports are not necessarily the best at those sports. You need someone who can improve you not just someone who can beat you.

I think "latest accessory" might have been an unfair term, or at least carrying too much in the way of negative connotations but I think it's obvious, even just from this thread that there's been a shift in attitudes/culture towards the whole coaching thing.

mark b, its ok no lasting trauma caused I think ive managed to get over it... I think it's you thats traumatised from the fact you couldnt hop a log without a course to show you how. Now go ride yor bike properly.

but I think it's obvious, even just from this thread that there's been a shift in attitudes/culture towards the whole coaching thing

It's certainly becoming more and more popular. It's relatively inexpensive and generally seems to be pretty effective, so perhaps not surprising.

I take it from the doubters that they are either gifted athletes or have never participated in any other sport where coaching is the norm ie most other sports.

I'm a doubter, and I must, therefore be a gifted athlete...

I look on it as the latest development in a [s]sport[/s] leisure activity for the well off...

Not only do we 'need' specialist machinery, special pedals, special shoes, special shorts, special socks, special gloves, special underwear made from special sheep, special helmets, special glasses... we now 'need' someone to show us how to get the best out of all this special stuff.

Let me state, again for those of a nervous disposition, that I have no problem with people going on skills courses. No problem. None.

I just find it all a bit ****y, really. Given that the padded up, Camelbak-size-of-a-small-country, drive to the riding, pushing up hill middle manager IT specialist stereotype STWer struggles just to get to anything where these special skills can be used....

It moves us yet another step away from just riding a bike, it's yet more silly one-upmanship, yet another thing that makes one of the most accessible activities in the country into some kind of middle class exclusive club.

As I said before, mountain biking is moving in a direction that is beginning to grate on me, and I've been doing it since 1988.

My feeling is that people have lost the will and/or the ability to actually go out and improve by dedication and practice and sheer bloody mindedness, and are now paying someone else to tell them how to do the thing that they profess to love.

It's riding a bike, get a collective grip.

crikey... I couldnt have put it any better myself, my sentiments exactly.

Swimming - just waving your arms about in the water - coaching gets the best out of all levels of swimmers.
Golf - resident coaches
Running - coaches at running clubs
Road cycling - coaching the norm
Tennis - club coaches a plenty
Surfing - pretty standard to coach
Mountain biking? No, man. We don't need it. We're totally different and we're all riding to our potential and if we don't, it is because we're lazy. We can all critique ourselves better than anyone else as well.

As I said before, mountain biking is moving in a direction that is beginning to grate on me

give it up then.

how many of these IT middle managers go on these courses, verses how many enthusiastic, reasonably fit, normal riders. Not many I would guess.

Most of these middle aged, IT middle managers I come across go road cycling as you can wear all the kit and get a reasonable pace (for them) on the road, without having to put as much effort in as you would mtbing.

It's riding a bike

so you would think but the correct technique for carving up flowing singletrack is not 'just riding a bike'. Maybe you would know this if you went on one of these courses...

Been a runner, with no coaching. Been a road racer, with no coaching. Been a mountain bike racer, that's racer rather than a few hours out with my mates, no coaching.

As I said, I've no problem with anyone getting coaching, but ....Oooh look, it has become de rigeur, and if I say I don't agree, I now have to defend that position...

Havent bothered reading most of this thread but believe it must be a troll surely!!?? Seems to be encouraging agro with "evil stereotyping" from both sides encouraging us to unite against the "bad guys"... tribalism coming out...woe betide the newbies, AGNI's, Middle class IT guys, and what about the golfers & bankers? Some riders need and enjoy courses, but other riders are happy not to do them . Strangely we are all different!! VIVE LA DIFFERENCE...its YOUR CHOICE

Been a runner, with no coaching. Been a road racer, with no coaching. Been a mountain bike racer, that's racer rather than a few hours out with my mates, no coaching.

Just think, you probably could have been a world class contender with a bit of coaching...

Wow. Hilarious...

Wow. Hilarious...

how do you know, I bet you could have been great - maybe made a living at it and then ended up coaching to fill out the rest of your working years.

It's easy to tell you've had comedy coaching too.. 🙄

where's the comedy - you'll never know how good you could have been, if only you had been humble enough to have some coaching.

If you'd have asked all those riders/runners that were passing you they probably could have recommended one.

I think far too much is made of skills coaching by a lot of people.. many folk would get just as much benefit simply by lowering their seats occasionally..